|
The murder bellows were a nice touch to let you know what’s sort of fueling him when he goes for people
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 01:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 15:37 |
|
|
Just finished Punisher. It was definitely good; had its ups and downs; I was really disappointed that he let Russo live so they could have Jigsaw, "death is too easy for you hurr" is hilariously out of character for Frank loving Castle, grating his face off on the mirror was fine but he still should've loving killed him but whatever. I definitely enjoyed it more than Defenders or IF; about on par with Luke Cage or JJ, and not as good as DD1 and the first half of DD2.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 02:55
|
|
|
Actually the best season 2 would be Frank vs Kingpin because Kingpin is the least magical of any villain and they got MAD BEEF to settle from DDS2 Edit: wow DDS2 has both the prison fight and the nobu fight and the most Kingpin so it’s probably the best episode of that season Bust Rodd fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Nov 22, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 03:05
|
|
|
BiggerBoat posted:What I'm saying is Netflix Punisher is pretty loving good and the haters should shut up. This and this. Sorry it's not Avengers with guns. But, I will happily take a thoughtful and measured approach to a difficult topic, written to the best of the writers' ability over another FX-ridden action fest if given the option. All things being equal, I think the showrunner and staff deserve commendations for straddling a difficult line between being entertaining for a wide audience while provoking thought about a sensitive and topic problem, all the while not glorifying this "lone shooter" climate of ours.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 03:34
|
|
|
Bust Rodd posted:Actually the best season 2 would be Frank vs Kingpin because Kingpin is the least magical of any villain and they got MAD BEEF to settle from DDS2 Not only that, but, despite his issues, Kingpin has the brains and resources to throw enough threats and opponents up against Frank for a whole short season.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 03:36
|
|
|
Javid posted:It was definitely good; had its ups and downs; I was really disappointed that he let Russo live so they could have Jigsaw, "death is too easy for you hurr" is hilariously out of character for Frank loving Castle, grating his face off on the mirror was fine but he still should've loving killed him but whatever. That's literally his origin in the comic books, the only difference is rather than being entirely personal it's Frank using him as a message to the rest of the underworld. Which is even more stupid, because I would think killing loving everybody was a strong message to the underworld as is. Also this is, oddly enough, not a show about the Punisher. The Punisher is the guy Frank is very specifically trying not to be. He's not just killing any criminals he can, he wants the people that killed his family. As the show starts it's been *months* since he thought he killed them all....and he hasn't killed anyone since. Frank is still laser focused in this, and conceivably in a place where he could walk away. If he did, he'd never really be the guy we know as the Punisher. If this was the last we saw of him in the MCU, it'd actually have a hopeful ending to what was a tragic story. It doesn't become Frank Castle: Walking Atrocity until he deals with the people that killed his family....and continues on without any intention of stopping. That's when he's really the Punisher. And also kind of a boring character that doesn't work in the setting they are building. "Oh no, Matt needs to clean up Hell's Kit....no, nevermind, Frank killed like 10,000 people in his show and there is no more low level street crime in Hell's Kitchen. Well lets move over to Luke in Harl.....wait, he killed all those criminals too? Well poo poo, at least we Danny and his ninja prob drat IT FRANK STOP SHOOTING ALL THE NINJAS!". It's fine in comics for there to effectively be a million faceless mooks for Frank to kill, an actual shared storytelling universe can't really float that sort of thing. And Christ, even there they had to get him out of New York every so often.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 03:40
|
|
|
Mulva posted:That's literally his origin in the comic books, the only difference is rather than being entirely personal it's Frank using him as a message to the rest of the underworld. Which is even more stupid, because I would think killing loving everybody was a strong message to the underworld as is. I still think the smart play is 3 seasons and out. There's zero need to keep Frank in a Punisher limbo ad infinitum because TV is not a comic that keeps running for decades. S2 - Franks continues his long slide becoming truly monstrous and losing sight of his humanity. He alienates EVERYONE by the end, closing out the season alone, in the dark, just a snarling animal. S3 - Is his long climb back to the light earning, if not redemption, at least a little peace with his past and himself. By the end he's no longer a psychotic anti-hero, but instead a flawed hero. Every day is a fight to keep his monster on a leash. That's a Punisher story I want told. Not the nihilistic gun porn of the comics. Proteus Jones fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Nov 22, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 03:47
|
|
|
Still, every once in a while you need a guy who can silently take out three members of an elite mercenary death squad of ex-special forces before they realize anyone's there and right after the phone call where the death squad's off-site boss yells "It's a trap! HE'S THERE! GET OUT WHILE YOU CAN!" the head of one of those missing redshirts gets tossed at the commander's feet with a grenade rubber banded to it. That poo poo would not be nearly as memorable and terrifying if Frank was running around with the skull vest killing people 24/7. The show's restraint makes it that much more impactful when Frank does put on the Punisher persona.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 03:48
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:Still, every once in a while you need a guy who can silently take out three members of an elite mercenary death squad of ex-special forces before they realize anyone's there and right after the phone call where the death squad's off-site boss yells "It's a trap! HE'S THERE! GET OUT WHILE YOU CAN!" the head of one of those missing redshirts gets tossed at the commander's feet with a grenade rubber banded to it. Agreed. Frank Castle is terrifyingly competent and capable and not someone you take on lightly. The Punisher is a god drat monster that roars out like some predatory beast before he guts your elite deathsquad like fish and a force of nature that follows their tracks back to the source with an arsenal that would make a Branch Davidian blush and lays waste to everything between him and his target. Him gearing up to go full Punisher should be an "oh gently caress" moment, not the norm.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 04:22
|
|
|
Proteus Jones posted:S2 - Franks continues his long slide becoming truly monstrous and losing sight of his humanity. He alienates EVERYONE by the end, closing out the season alone, in the dark, just a snarling animal. I don't want to see a season of unrelenting horror and inhumanity, full stop. I don't think there's anything to be gained by that with any character, let alone one who's already hit rock-bottom once in his character arc. I doubt they'd risk their shot at a season 3 by showing a season 2 with no satisfaction or redemption. I deeply hope that would not come to pass.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 04:33
|
|
|
BiggerBoat posted:This. It's like if Animal Mother or Private Joker were returned into society. It's not Rambo and the show is better for it. I haven't seen first blood since like 95 but uhhh isn't it basically about a dude just like animal mother returning to society and being a broken man with untreaded PTSD and no family who ends up a drifter who can't hold the simplest of jobs as a result? like, wasn't his brief return to violence caused by finding out his only friend died from side effects of the war years after he came home, then getting his rear end thoroughly and embarrassingly and kicked by some bored cops, followed by him running from a consistent escalation of force by the police until the climax where he realizes everything he did was futile and the movie ends with him surrendering and breaking down crying before being carted off to prison? It was an action movie for sure but I also don't remember it really being anything like "avengers with guns," he spends most of the movie running and hiding from an overwhelmingly larger armed force and I think he kills exactly one person in the entire film (even then it was due to an accident) I eats my spinach fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Nov 22, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 05:16
|
|
|
The problem with more Punisher is you'll need an inciting incident to drag Frank back into the action and I don't want anything bad to happen to Micro or his family, especially now that they're reunited.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 05:26
|
|
|
In It For The Tank posted:The problem with more Punisher is you'll need an inciting incident to drag Frank back into the action and I don't want anything bad to happen to Micro or his family, especially now that they're reunited. There's what Saracen did in the comics: Frank's immediate family is dead, but he still has parents, aunts, uncles, etc who can be targeted.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 05:27
|
|
|
I eats my spinach posted:I haven't seen first blood since like 95 but uhhh isn't it basically about a dude just like animal mother returning to society and being a broken man with untreaded PTSD and no family who ends up a drifter who can't hold the simplest of jobs as a result? like, wasn't his brief return to violence caused by finding out his only friend died from side effects of the war years after he came home, then getting his rear end thoroughly and embarrassingly and kicked by some bumkin cops, followed by him running from a consistent escalation of force by the police until the climax where he realizes everything he just did was a futile mistake and the movie ends with him surrendering and breaking down crying before being carted off to jail? It was an action movie for sure but I also don't remember it really being anything like "avengers with guns" Also Season 2 speculation I wonder if Billy awakes from his coma mostly forgetting who he was except that he really loving hates Frank Castle and ends up being the mob hitman he is in the comics Though in my opinion Punisher as a series should just end like any good Western with the anti-hero dying from his wounds after destroying his enemies.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 05:30
|
|
|
homullus posted:I don't want to see a season of unrelenting horror and inhumanity, full stop. I don't think there's anything to be gained by that with any character, let alone one who's already hit rock-bottom once in his character arc. I doubt they'd risk their shot at a season 3 by showing a season 2 with no satisfaction or redemption. I deeply hope that would not come to pass. Yeah, that would be a stretch and probably turn a lot of people off. Maybe make the entire arc S2. Start in anti-hero mode (similar, but not quite as indiscriminate as the comics version), midseason is full on monster-mash, and then end with transformation to troubled hero. Obviously, Jigsaw is the catalyst for all of this. For some reason I really have that fixed in my head, since I want this show to continue avoiding the excesses of the comic book version. Proteus Jones fucked around with this message at 05:40 on Nov 22, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 05:37
|
|
|
Just do Frankencastle
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 05:59
|
|
|
Give Frank Tusk Act 1.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 06:17
|
|
|
I'd love it if they did something like The Slavers for S2. Somebody not at all related to his backstory, but just so evil he can't not get involved. That would be way more interesting to me than doing stuff from his past again.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 06:46
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:There's what Saracen did in the comics: Frank's immediate family is dead, but he still has parents, aunts, uncles, etc who can be targeted. Punisher '04 flipped this by having the entire extended family at the picnic and it's still the one thing I found off-putting about an otherwise glorious film
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 08:27
|
|
|
Javid posted:I'd love it if they did something like The Slavers for S2. Somebody not at all related to his backstory, but just so evil he can't not get involved. That would be way more interesting to me than doing stuff from his past again. "All that counts is you can't stop me. I'm stronger than you, so I can do anything I want. Isn't that the way it works?" from The Slavers is still one of the most hosed up things I've seen in a comic.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 09:24
|
|
|
achillesforever6 posted:He was probably thinking of Rambo 2 and 3 I definitely was. First Blood is actually a decent comparison.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 11:12
|
|
|
Season 2 should go full absurdist with the Punisher gunning down old ladies for jaywalking and people who take the tags off their mattresses. Season 3 should be a slow-paced character narrative as Frank grapples with his wilful surrender to the Punisher persona.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 13:55
|
|
|
I gotta say when I started gearing up to watch some Punisher I wasn't expecting the show to display Frank War Roar "The Punisher" Castle 1X13 Negoitiating with a deranged bomber or not killing every criminal he happens to appear behind. Turk surviving has to be my biggest surprise of this series, in truth. Also, I really wish there was a 'making of' for this series, because Jon Bernthal's performance when he's shot in the bulletproof vest is just incredible time and again. Pwnstar posted:Season 2 should go full absurdist with the Punisher gunning down old ladies for jaywalking and people who take the tags off their mattresses. Season 3 should be a slow-paced character narrative as Frank grapples with his wilful surrender to the Punisher persona. I want a scene of Frank dealing with someone who isn't military in some way. I wanna see how he would fight off someone using the drunken monkey form without a gun on hand.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 14:17
|
|
|
Punisher was awesome but goddamnit they hosed up rawlins his character in the comic was loving awesome,he was like prince Joffrey playing all sides and had dirt on everyone and he was so evil but he always got away. In this he was just a sadomasochist torturer without any of the evil charm and now he's gone so...pssh. also I kept expecting a scene where frank makes a pact with the devil especially at the end but maybe they'll save it. Brazilianpeanutwar fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Nov 22, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 14:53
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:"All that counts is you can't stop me. I'm stronger than you, so I can do anything I want. Isn't that the way it works?" from The Slavers is still one of the most hosed up things I've seen in a comic. I definitely hate many parts of Ennis Punisher (mainly the same things I hate in every Ennis comic) but I don't know why people want satisfaction or redemption from Frank Castle. He's a brutal murderer, a broken man who doesn't get to ride off into the sunset or become a hero. His only redeeming factor is that he kills bad people but you know, he is still a hosed up psychopath because mass murder is generally considered wrong. The show was pretty good about those elements and Ennis' Punisher was great about them. Plenty of opportunities to explore healing and PTSD survival and becoming a functioning member of society and so on, even in the show, just not specifically with Frank "bodycount of a small military conflict" Castle. Dude is way past gone. Also granted this is still kind of a "Young Punisher" story, Ennis' Punisher was like pushing 60 or something. Even Karen Page wouldn't be defending that dude (oh my God shut up Karen) DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Nov 22, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 15:26
|
|
|
DarkCrawler posted:I definitely hate many parts of Ennis Punisher (mainly the same things I hate in every Ennis comic) but I don't know why people want satisfaction or redemption from Frank Castle. He's a brutal murderer, a broken man who doesn't get to ride off into the sunset or become a hero. His only redeeming factor is that he kills bad people but you know, he is still a hosed up psychopath because mass murder is generally considered wrong. The show was pretty good about those elements and Ennis' Punisher was great about them. Plenty of opportunities to explore healing and PTSD survival and becoming a functioning member of society and so on, even in the show, just not specifically with Frank "bodycount of a small military conflict" Castle. Why is it so wrong to have empathy for a hurt, broken man and want him to heal?
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 15:28
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:Why is it so wrong to have empathy for a hurt, broken man and want him to heal? It's not wrong, but I feel it is misplaced in this case. The Punisher as a character is about a lot of themes, some of which are pretty complex, but redemption is not one of them. I mean look at Frank's own stance on it - we don't have empathy on all the people he mows down without a second thought, even if they are not a threat at the moment.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 15:35
|
|
|
To borrow a defense of a really lovely superman movie, this was very much a Punisher year one story. He still has a lot of humanity, empathy, and sense of scale. He lets Turk and Jigsaw live, which is something later day Punisher would never do. I feel like Lewis represents a "ghost of Punishers future," warning where Frank's path might lead.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 15:47
|
|
|
DarkCrawler posted:It's not wrong, but I feel it is misplaced in this case. The Punisher as a character is about a lot of themes, some of which are pretty complex, but redemption is not one of them. I mean look at Frank's own stance on it - we don't have empathy on all the people he mows down without a second thought, even if they are not a threat at the moment. The Punisher can be about a lot of things. Some good, some bad. I think it's perfectly legitimate to entertain the possibility that Frank doesn't have to be the Punisher - in my opinion, saying Frank is the Punisher all the time and can't and won't ever be anything else is an incredibly boring and restrictive take on the character.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 15:59
|
|
|
Or maybe there are different kinds of redemption and Frank is capable of leaving the world a better place than he left it, subjectively, even if he never stops killing because platitudes like “violence only begets violence” or “violence is never the answer” are actually meaningless in today’s world. In 2017 & beyond, we are past the point of being able to say “I’ll promise to leave you alone if you promise to behave” because corruption has permeated every conceivable aspect of society. The Punisher is like a padlock. It is too simple of a device to be hacked or rerouted, you either don’t get through, or you break it. The Punisher was able to symbolically redeem himself in [spoiler] s1x13, that’s why he has a woman, a boy and a girl, bleeding out but ALIVE, in his lap on the Carousel when the cops arrive. Ironically, the carousel was full circle on everything we’ve seen of Frank so far, the only loose ends are Jigsaw and Kingpin[spoiler]
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 16:15
|
|
|
RareAcumen posted:
You want "Mother Russia" from the MAX line. Nick Fury sends Frank and another soldier into Russia in a secret mission to retrieve a biological weapon that inside the bloodstream of a small child. Frank faces off with a soldier called The Mongolian who kicks Frank's rear end. Then the Mongolian slaps the five year old. Moments later: "I realize when I'm tearing his leg off like a drumstick that I'm frightening the girl."
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 16:32
|
|
|
The single hardest moment for me to watch in the Punisher was actually the fight between Curtis & Lewis. To actually shoot and film a war hero getting his prosthetic leg ripped off and then beating him with it was not only physically repulsive but I was emotionally very triggered and teared up and the again when Curtis starts crying about it later. The shame he felt at losing to some psycho kid was palpable and after that I thought “CURTIS HAS BEEN THROUGH ENOUGH” Rewatched most of DDS2 skipped all the Elektra stuff so now I’m just working my way through all the Avengers movies because I’ve never seen any of them and I like superhero fights
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 16:37
|
|
|
DarkCrawler posted:I don't know why people want satisfaction or redemption from Frank Castle. At the risk of pointing out the obvious, there's no way Netflix is going to throw millions of dollars at a 13-hour loop of roaring and bloody gunshot wounds generated by somebody who literally does nothing but kill people. The more successful MCU series have had both internal and external conflict for their protagonists. Internal conflict requires choices between competing desired outcomes, interesting choices where something will be lost in return for something gained. If Frank Castle never gains anything, he can't have anything threatened, let alone lose anything. I'm sure there are many sentences that can be written about comics-version Frank Castle, but comics are a different genre with constraints that are born from the juvenile. Marvel on TV isn't a BBC period drama, but they clearly aspire to something more nuanced than "killer goes a-killing" with all of their protagonists.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 17:31
|
|
|
Davros1 posted:You want "Mother Russia" from the MAX line. Nick Fury sends Frank and another soldier into Russia in a secret mission to retrieve a biological weapon that inside the bloodstream of a small child. Frank faces off with a soldier called The Mongolian who kicks Frank's rear end. Then the Mongolian slaps the five year old. Moments later: "I realize when I'm tearing his leg off like a drumstick that I'm frightening the girl." I doubt we'll ever see an an adaptation of mother Russia but i hope they find a way to use the part where he's lying on the for beaten to hell and flashes back to his daughter and becomes Death Brazilianpeanutwar posted:also I kept expecting a scene where frank makes a pact with the devil especially at the end but maybe they'll save it. I kinda got the feeling that the blackout scenes with his wife when he was being tortured by rawlins was supposed to be a sort of amalgamation of his dialogues with death from born and the dreams with his family from up is down and black is white but since there was no previous context built in to the show it didn't really have the emotional weight they wanted site fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Nov 22, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 17:38
|
|
|
Autism Sneaks posted:Punisher '04 flipped this by having the entire extended family at the picnic and it's still the one thing I found off-putting about an otherwise glorious film Someone else who liked Tom Jane punisher? Slap hands!
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 18:35
|
|
|
Make that three of us!
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 18:44
|
|
|
esperterra posted:Make that three of us! gently caress it. 4. Anything that horribly murders Travolta is only a plus.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 19:23
|
|
|
I used to alternate holding my cigarettes between my index and middle, then pinky and ring fingers because that guitar dude in Punisher '04 looked so drat cool doing it. It was real useful when I later started learning guitar.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 19:28
|
|
|
That was the one with The Russian, Spacker Dave, and a bunch of other awesome minor characters! It was fun, I liked it!
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 19:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 15:37 |
|
|
The main problem was that you can't do "Welcome Home, Frank" as your first movie. He was never really outcast as the Punisher in the first place! That and making him a cop in Miami.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 19:47
|
|
