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Blockhouse posted:fuckin libs bringing politics into watchmen "First, they got to drat der inject politics into perfectly a-pol-itical stories like Star Trek and make them all liberal. Now they got to der dere make dat good ol' boy Watchmen comic all pol-it-ical. Why the hell do they got to make everything so political? Back in my day, no one spoke politics ever, not even politicians, and especially not liberal policies. That'd get McCarthy on your rear end." Okay, I'll stop.
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Nov 23, 2017 01:22
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The story has no hopes of living up to them, but the upcoming Jenny Frision WW variants are so mean. 
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Nov 23, 2017 01:35
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I liked the first issue of Doomsday Clock. I mean, I wasn't expecting much, and I'm mostly just fascinated by it, but I didn't feel like I just had one of my favorite comics poo poo all over any worse than Before Watchmen.
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Nov 23, 2017 01:59
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I'm not right wing, fyi. My criticism of John's politics was that they're poorly thought out, and don't really make sense for a 1992-set Watchmen sequel. It's just a list of typical grievances against Trump.
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Nov 23, 2017 02:54
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Teenage Fansub posted:The story has no hopes of living up to them, but the upcoming Jenny Frision WW variants are so mean. Why don’t comic companies offer poster prints of their covers? Because they should.
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Nov 23, 2017 02:58
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SMP posted:I'm not right wing, fyi. My criticism of John's politics was that they're poorly thought out, and don't really make sense for a 1992-set Watchmen sequel. It's just a list of typical grievances against Trump. It's hard to tell nowadays. So many alt-right people troll randoms on the internet for shits and giggles that it gets hard to tell someone discussing in good faith and someone who is just here to "fight the culture war" or some poo poo. Especially with comics where people yell dumb crap like "SJW Marvel is injecting diversity and killing comics because of liberals" and encourage people to attack their writers and editors online in any place that doesn't have a mod team that's on the ball. Anyway, yeah, that's a criticism I have as well. These complaints don't work for 1992, unless they establish a Trump-esque person getting elected instead of George H. W. Bush. Oh, wait, when did Barry Goldwater run? Wasn't he Trump-esque?
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Nov 23, 2017 03:00
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Doomsday Clock is probably gonna blow the Rebirth one shot's sales numbers out of the goddamned water.
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Nov 23, 2017 03:03
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Covok posted:It's hard to tell nowadays. So many alt-right people troll randoms on the internet for shits and giggles that it gets hard to tell someone discussing in good faith and someone who is just here to "fight the culture war" or some poo poo. Especially with comics where people yell dumb crap like "SJW Marvel is injecting diversity and killing comics because of liberals" and encourage people to attack their writers and editors online in any place that doesn't have a mod team that's on the ball. I might be reaching, but I think the implication was Robert Redford ran for President and won in this universe.
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Nov 23, 2017 03:04
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Covok posted:Anyway, yeah, that's a criticism I have as well. These complaints don't work for 1992, unless they establish a Trump-esque person getting elected instead of George H. w. Bush. I haven't picked up Doomsday Clock yet but Watchmen is set far enough away from the 1988 election that there's no indication who the President might be, beyond the mention of Robert Redford running.
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Nov 23, 2017 03:07
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SMP posted:I might be reaching, but I think the implication was Robert Redford ran for President and won in this universe. Looks like Robert Redford has some real life political advocacy. He supported LGBT rights and enviormentalism, but also supported a lot of Republicans. Ironically, while he has a quote praising Trump that's literally in the Art of the Deal, it's was actually sarcastic and the writer cut it off before the punchline. Not the best stand-in for Trump from what his wikipedia page suggests.
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Nov 23, 2017 03:12
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I just remembered Rorschach's psychiatrist was African American. That's my guess who the new Rorschach is: Malcolm Long. He got obsessed with Rorschach and begun to believe he was him.
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Nov 23, 2017 03:16
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Covok posted:I just remembered Rorschach's psychiatrist was African American. That's my guess who the new Rorschach is: Malcolm Long. He got obsessed with Rorschach and begun to believe he was him. lmao he lost some major weight!
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Nov 23, 2017 03:20
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pubic works project posted:lmao he lost some major weight! I'll admit it's a long shot, but he is the only African American character that Rorschach had any contact with in the original. I never read Before Watchmen so I don't know if that matters.
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Nov 23, 2017 03:30
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I'd be amazed if anything in Before Watchmen is referenced.
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Nov 23, 2017 03:34
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It's an interesting theory and it does make sense. I've read issue one twice now. I really enjoyed it. I do hope that Manhattan caused the car wreck that killed Ma and Pa Kent (I forget how they died in the New 52) and that we get them back alive at the end of this.
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Nov 23, 2017 03:39
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I just chatted with my brother and we both agree now it's gotta be Malcom Long. Remember, some people in the explosion just had their mind screwed with and had visions of aliens put in their head. Malcom's wife dies, he is made insane by Ozymandis, and he has the case file on Rorschach and begins to think he's him. My brother even pointed out that Rorschach has a document with him before they went into the sewer with an ink blot on it, possible Rorschach's case file from the original Watchman. I think me and my brother blew this one right open.
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Nov 23, 2017 03:39
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pubic works project posted:It's an interesting theory and it does make sense. That's definitely how I took that scene. I bet Johns is going to have Manhattan be behind all of the New 52 changes.
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Nov 23, 2017 03:44
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Lord Vyndktvx was behind the crash in Morrison's run on Action Comics. Having said that, that particular run had Clark actually take Lana to the Prom rather than her going with Pete Ross so we're already diverging from that.
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Nov 23, 2017 04:12
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AFoolAndHisMoney posted:Lord Vyndktvx was behind the crash in Morrison's run on Action Comics. Having said that, that particular run had Clark actually take Lana to the Prom rather than her going with Pete Ross so we're already diverging from that. Post Crisis Clark and Lana were an official couple through high school until the end of the football season of their senior year. That was the night Clark revealed his powers to her and left Smallville. She didn't end up with Pete until much later so what history are we going from here?
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Nov 23, 2017 04:38
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Rhyno posted:Post Crisis Clark and Lana were an official couple through high school until the end of the football season of their senior year. That was the night Clark revealed his powers to her and left Smallville. She didn't end up with Pete until much later so what history are we going from here? In Superman Reborn, post-crisis Superman and New 52 Superman were merged into the same entity and their timeline were merged as well. Thus, Rebirth Superman was born. So, this is Rebirth Superman's timeline we're seeing.
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Nov 23, 2017 04:58
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Blockhouse posted:fuckin libs bringing politics into watchmen My impression was there were digs at progressives and neo liberals in the book as well as the more obvious Trump stuff so aside from a bit of anachronism in projecting this onto a world with an alternative history it didn't irritate me too much (not because of my preference for either side but because ideological screeds stick out like a dog's balls). William F Buckley Jnr was maybe a bit too on the nose.
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Nov 23, 2017 05:00
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Covok posted:In Superman Reborn, post-crisis Superman and New 52 Superman were merged into the same entity and their timeline were merged as well. Thus, Rebirth Superman was born. This week's Action has Clark realizing the timeline has been hosed with. So...
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Nov 23, 2017 05:06
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Rhyno posted:This week's Action has Clark realizing the timeline has been hosed with. So... I should start following Action Comics.
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Nov 23, 2017 05:13
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Covok posted:I should start following Action Comics. Nooooooo.
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Nov 23, 2017 05:30
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This current arc, which features Booster Gold, is looking really promising so far. But yeah, even though I don't hate the series, it's hard to justify recommending it to anyone because at this point it's had way too many arcs that were just way too...naff.
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Nov 23, 2017 05:55
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Covok posted:That's definitely how I took that scene. I bet Johns is going to have Manhattan be behind all of the New 52 changes. Wasn't that already strongly implied with Rebirth #1? The messy hand wave of oh HE did all of this for......... reasons. And the reason would become Doomsday Clock because Johns had no loving clue how he was going to tie it together.
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Nov 23, 2017 09:29
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The idea that Dr. Manhattan going to a new galaxy, a clean slate, at the end of Watchmen resolves in him going and becoming a villain in the main DC universe is such a catastrophic misreading of the resonance of that moment. So is the idea that Dr. Manhattan would want to make things "darker". "Dr. Manhattan killed Superman's parents" is the ultimate apotheosis of this extremely bad take. Also "Ozymandias gathers new-Rorschach and two kooky criminals in the Also, if new Rorschach doesn't write things down, why is his internal monologue still written on journal pages? Who's collating the clumsy exposition at the end of the issue? Or are these things only there because of a cargo cult-y desire to recreate the symbolic language of the original Watchmen without caring about its substance? Tolerable as a standard DC event comic, but a predictably weak take on the source material.
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Nov 23, 2017 10:40
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Android Blues posted:Or are these things only there because of a cargo cult-y desire to recreate the symbolic language of the original Watchmen without caring about its substance? I think we knew the answer to this the moment we saw the panel arrangement in the previews and that first knot of dread formed
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Nov 23, 2017 10:57
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Rhyno posted:Post Crisis Clark and Lana were an official couple through high school until the end of the football season of their senior year. That was the night Clark revealed his powers to her and left Smallville. She didn't end up with Pete until much later so what history are we going from here? A history that Dr Manhattan keeps altering?
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Nov 23, 2017 11:37
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After Superman Reborn, his past should be up for slight retconning. This thing's gonna live on it's own way past caring about who danced with him at the prom or tying the crash to Morrison's Action Comics anyhow. Was there any prom scene in Geoff n Garry's 'Secret Origin'? Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 11:53 on Nov 23, 2017 |
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Nov 23, 2017 11:49
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Teenage Fansub posted:After Superman Reborn, his past should be up for slight retconning. This thing's gonna live on it's own way past caring about who danced with him at the prom or tying the crash to Morrison's Action Comics anyhow. To be honest I'm just kind of glad that some part of Morrison's Action Comics lives on. The prom dance thing is fairly minor in the grand scheme of it. I don't think there was a prom scene in secret origin. From memory the first issue involved Clark learning to control his heat vision and putting on his glasses and Lana knowing about his secret. Then the second issue involved LoSH shenanigans and the issues after that went on to Metropolis stuff.
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Nov 23, 2017 12:24
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Wait, what if the nightmare was not happening it to rebirth Superman? What if we were being shown something from a long time ago? What if we were being shown the first time Doctor Manhattan began to experiment with changing the DC Universe? What if we're seeing the first time he corrupted it?
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Nov 23, 2017 14:57
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Android Blues posted:The idea that Dr. Manhattan going to a new galaxy, a clean slate, at the end of Watchmen resolves in him going and becoming a villain in the main DC universe is such a catastrophic misreading of the resonance of that moment. So is the idea that Dr. Manhattan would want to make things "darker". "Dr. Manhattan killed Superman's parents" is the ultimate apotheosis of this extremely bad take. I feel like the fact that there's a copy of Walden Two on Clark's nightstand might be a clue to how Doc operates. If I am to intepret it now based solely on this, I'm thinking Manhattan has done a whole mess of hosed up poo poo to try and engineer an utopia, but of course a) that's not how people work, and b) if it exists at the whim of one blue dude with his dong out it can't be a utopia anyway.
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Nov 23, 2017 15:03
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Kamandi Challenge is almost over, thank God. There have been like two or three good issues, with the rest being stinkers. The most frustrating thing has been how the early issues tried to build a sense of continuity but each subsequent team would just throw it all out for the story they had already planned to write. The note at the end of the issue was supposed to explain how the original team would have escaped their inescapable situation, but most of them ignored that too. It could have been pretty cool, if people had been willing to put the effort in to actually follow the rules and try to tell a coherent story built from the earlier issues.
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Nov 23, 2017 15:18
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Covok posted:Anyway, yeah, that's a criticism I have as well. These complaints don't work for 1992, unless they establish a Trump-esque person getting elected instead of George H. W. Bush. Oh, wait, when did Barry Goldwater run? Wasn't he Trump-esque? Goldwater was 1964 and he was absolutely crushed. He was done after that and the Republican Party's hard right chose a new standard-bearer: Ronald Reagan. I suppose the hardline ultra-conservative Republican choice in 1992 who'd best correspond to real life would've been Pat Buchanan or Pat Robertson.
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Nov 23, 2017 15:29
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Hey guys you don't have to use spoilers in a discussion thread. You definitely don't need to use spoilers for speculation.
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Nov 23, 2017 19:50
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I do not like Morrison's interpretstion of Joker. Other than that i shouldnt have dropped the book after the horrendous prose book during his run. It has gotten enjoyable even when it crawls up inside its own butt.
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Nov 23, 2017 20:08
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Good/bad thing about Joker is that if you like/dislike the way someone writes him, the next writer is likely to do something wildly different. Has anyone made some avatars out of the new Mister Miracle book yet? I need a new av, and there's a ton of choices in those issues.
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Nov 23, 2017 20:12
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I wasn’t a fan of either Morrison’s or Snyder’s Joker. I feel like Paul Dini is the only writer that really nails the character. There was a Christmas issue early in his Detectice Comics run that was great. Geoff also does a decent job with him so I’m looking forward to his inevitable appearance.
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Nov 23, 2017 22:37
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I remember liking Grant's Joker when he popped back in Batman and Robin, but that may have just been thanks to the great Frazer Irving.
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Nov 23, 2017 22:48
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