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See, it makes you walk back as Pascal, you know something horrible has happened, and then it keeps getting worse. They're dead, but also they killed themselves, and also it was because of Pascal. Poor dude.
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Nov 23, 2017 19:38
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| # ? May 10, 2024 13:48 |
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Happy Drakensgiving!
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Nov 23, 2017 19:40
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 Makes you wish your own worst fears were the worst that would happen. I wish 9S railed another flight unit in Pascals face now.
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Nov 23, 2017 19:42
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I remember thinking “oh well of course the children are gonna die, it’s after all” but uh, a mass suicide out of fear was...not what I was expecting.
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Nov 23, 2017 19:42
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I feel pretty bad for all the people who started playing N:A without knowing anything about the rest of the series. We all saw something coming a mile away, but there are a lot of folks out there who didn't even see this as a possibility. This is a hell of an introduction to Drakengard.
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Nov 23, 2017 19:46
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ultrafilter posted:I feel pretty bad for all the people who started playing N:A without knowing anything about the rest of the series. We all saw something coming a mile away, but there are a lot of folks out there who didn't even see this as a possibility. This is a hell of an introduction to Drakengard. I was one of those people. It... yeah. It was hard.
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Nov 23, 2017 19:52
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I killed him on my playthrough. I figured it was the greater mercy.
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Nov 23, 2017 19:52
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I'd like to present a cordial middle finger to those who walked away thinking "I'm a mature person and I decree Pascal should work out his problems and get over this" This is a no-therapists setting. That logic won't apply
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Nov 23, 2017 20:00
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I was sure that even with the rampage Pascal would have missed a robot who slipped on by to butcher all the children. Of course that was giving Yoko Taro too little credit and instead he reached new heights of child slaughter with a mass suicide.
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Nov 23, 2017 20:03
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Good news, everyone! Yoko Taro found a way to escalate from child murder! 
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Nov 23, 2017 20:06
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He may have been able to protect the children from the bad guys, but he couldn't protect them from themselves.... GreyjoyBastard posted:Children status: protected. Spoke too soon man, spoke too soon... I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.
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Nov 23, 2017 20:13
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  but with Pascal instead
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Nov 23, 2017 20:17
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I knew about the walk away option, but I figured there'd be some word from A2 or the pod about it
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Nov 23, 2017 20:29
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I think this scene is probably the darkest the series has ever gotten. Caim and Nier murdered kids, but we never saw a mass suicide of them in any of the other games. Also, I left since killing him or erasing his memories is the exact same thing, and there could potentially be ways he can still help machine children with what he knows now. Anything he chooses to do is on him, not A2 to decide.
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Nov 23, 2017 20:34
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FisheyStix posted:Uh oh, you said the magic Drakengard words Now this is more like it.
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Nov 23, 2017 20:35
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McDragon posted:See, it makes you walk back as Pascal, you know something horrible has happened, and then it keeps getting worse. Pascal just jumped to conclusions. While you were out the kids read some leftover tracts and BECAME AS GODS
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Nov 23, 2017 20:36
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I walked away, for a variety of reasons, chief amongst them was I was wondering if they'd actually let me do it. Most games would want you to feel complicit as possible, so they remove the walk away option even though it in itself is a type of complicity. Its one of those invisible barriers Taro talked about. I wanted to see if he actually broke it. I also felt that every option was morally reprehensible. Killing Pascal meant I bloodied my own hands and effectively committed assisted suicide. Removing Pascal's memories effectively killed the person he is now and was more or less asking for a type of assisted suicide. I also thought about the fact that the various spin off machine civilizations kept getting stuck in loops, and I realized Pascal sans memories was just going to rebuild his pacifist village with no memory of why it failed and just get a lot more machines and machine children killed by teaching the same flawed lessons. I wondered if the reason these civilizations never evolved or changed was because whenever they met with the type of crisis that left them needing a huge change in philosophy, they just deleted their memories of the crisis. I felt that walking away was the only way to try to minimize but not remove my culpability in Pascal's suicide, as well as prevent the same thing from happening again.
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Nov 23, 2017 20:42
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Euthanasia is totally ok tho
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Nov 23, 2017 20:48
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The Ghost of Ember posted:I walked away, for a variety of reasons, chief amongst them was I was wondering if they'd actually let me do it. Most games would want you to feel complicit as possible, so they remove the walk away option even though it in itself is a type of complicity. Its one of those invisible barriers Taro talked about. I wanted to see if he actually broke it. So did you feel any regret for not fulfilling the last request of a person who spent their entire life trying to carve out a sanctuary in a world engaged in endless genocidal war, or...
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Nov 23, 2017 20:57
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Walking away is the most humane option. Humans grieve all the time without asking people to kill them. He needed to learn the same thing. You're kind of a sociopath if you choose either of the other options.
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Nov 23, 2017 20:59
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Nina posted:I'd like to present a cordial middle finger to those who walked away thinking "I'm a mature person and I decree Pascal should work out his problems and get over this" Hey, A2 sorted her poo poo out herself after everyone she cared about died tragically. And she's ended up a perfectly well-adjusted individual.
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Nov 23, 2017 21:03
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:So did you feel any regret for not fulfilling the last request of a person who spent their entire life trying to carve out a sanctuary in a world engaged in endless genocidal war, or... Of course I did, but to be honest I expected to get one of the speed credits immediately after I left the room. Only reason I didn't reload and remake the choice to just kill him myself is my distaste for reloading to remake choices in games.
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Nov 23, 2017 21:08
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...! posted:Walking away is the most humane option. Humans grieve all the time without asking people to kill them. He needed to learn the same thing. You're kind of a sociopath if you choose either of the other options. There is quite literally nobody to help him though it tho. You don't just get over poo poo like this on your own. The point is that there's no good option. Saagonsa fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Nov 23, 2017 |
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Nov 23, 2017 21:10
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"That’s the less decent option. We’re not doing that one... " There's an ethical and philosophical argument. If indeed deleting memories is killing the self, is there truly a difference? That said, is there the option to do nothing and just leave Pascal to his memories? Would he commit suicide himself?
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Nov 23, 2017 21:16
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Andyzero posted:"That’s the less decent option. We’re not doing that one... " Souls literally exist in this setting. Keeping Pascal’s essence alive is preferable to nothing being left of him
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Nov 23, 2017 21:17
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Andyzero posted:"That’s the less decent option. We’re not doing that one... " Quite possibly. Or at least continue to mentally break until everything that was once Pascal would be gone. I would be more fine with the option of leaving him there if there was any indication that somebody would be there to try and help him recover.
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Nov 23, 2017 21:18
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Nina posted:Souls literally exist in this setting. Keeping Pascal’s essence alive is preferable to nothing being left of him Humans have souls. And those without souls can be people just as much as anyone else.
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Nov 23, 2017 21:19
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Nina posted:Euthanasia is totally ok tho That's not a moral bridge everyone's crossed. Personally I'm fine with things like euthanasia from an armchair perspective, but you ask me to actually do it and I will probably blanch. The weight of that death on me is also a determinant to my mental health.
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Nov 23, 2017 21:23
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Pascal and the kids' tinny voices kinda ruined the drama of the scene for me when I played
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Nov 23, 2017 21:42
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I also walked away from Pascal because I wanted him to just go on living, or at least try, and there was no "Come on down to hang out with me in the flower cave or android village and cry it out for a while" option. I posit that it is you who so quickly accept his plea for death who is the hosed up one. 
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Nov 23, 2017 22:00
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theres nothing hosed up about killing machines.
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Nov 23, 2017 22:01
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ultrafilter posted:I feel pretty bad for all the people who started playing N:A without knowing anything about the rest of the series. We all saw something coming a mile away, but there are a lot of folks out there who didn't even see this as a possibility. This is a hell of an introduction to Drakengard. The protagonist was brutally murdered a couple hours ago. They got an intro already.
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Nov 23, 2017 22:04
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I chose to wipe his memories cause at the end of the day, Pascal with no memories is still a fundamentally good person. Even if the good he does is doomed to end in another similar tragedy, it's better than it never having been done at all.
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Nov 23, 2017 22:04
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Yoko Taro going full Thomas Hardy was a real surprise to me, even knowing about the rest of the series. Wiping his memory is the best option, to my mind. Leaving hope for the future instead of just ending everything. And I had been promised a happy ending by Taro himself!
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Nov 23, 2017 22:09
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Imo walking away is the best option. You can't know without prior knowledge that Pascal is going to commit suicide, killing him doesn't really solve the problem, and wiping his memories is just tempting fate for the same thing to happen again.
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Nov 23, 2017 22:13
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Tempting fate that he'll... establish another peaceful outpost in a world of endless, pointless conflict? I kinda get the point you're going for, but at some point you have to acknowledge the agency of the other parties in this world. The machine network deciding to run cannibal_holocaust.exe wasn't Pascal's fault.
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Nov 23, 2017 22:33
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I just realized. I'm happy A2 didn't decide to wait around for Pascal to reboot and then convince him in his raw state to become her personal Engels Murderbot.
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Nov 23, 2017 22:35
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I wiped his memories because I’d rather give him a chance to live again than to kill him or leave him in his suffering. In a sense, yeah, you are killing the Pascal of that time, but he’s going to have a chance to live again. There’s not really a happy ending for Pascal here, but I’d be damned if I wasn’t going to fulfill his last wish and let him live again.
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Nov 23, 2017 22:35
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Rangpur posted:Tempting fate that he'll... establish another peaceful outpost in a world of endless, pointless conflict? I kinda get the point you're going for, but at some point you have to acknowledge the agency of the other parties in this world. The machine network deciding to run cannibal_holocaust.exe wasn't Pascal's fault. Yeah, but the kids killed themselves because Pascal never taught them how to deal with fear. It's like that comic with the guy that built a machine that screams.
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Nov 23, 2017 22:41
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| # ? May 10, 2024 13:48 |
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I can finally quote The 8-Bit Scholar posted:This game is great. Route...uh....C? Spoilers? Look, major loving spoilers
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