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Zartosht posted:I'm pretty sure all the stories in Occultation are part of the Old Leech mythos. I wouldn't have thought there'd be any necessary connection. Anthologies are often just grab bags collecting what authors did between certain dates. And in a lot of stories there's absolutely nothing to suggest linkages. You may know something I don't. I would actually appreciate knowing if they are part of the same world since I find putting together horror mythoi as I read connected stories to be enjoyable. Reminds me I need to go back and finish off Swift to Chase, once I'm done with a Lovecraft reread prompted by reading the new Carter and Lovecraft. Just finished with The Colour Out of Space. Love that story, and think it might be Lovecraft's best - the premise is extremely simple but he manages to make the whole thing so unsettling. Which suggests there's more to Lovecraft than his ideas and his writing is effective, even if it's not conventionally 'good' writing.
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Nov 22, 2017 08:39
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Neurosis posted:Reminds me I need to go back and finish off Swift to Chase, once I'm done with a Lovecraft reread prompted by reading the new Carter and Lovecraft. Just finished with The Colour Out of Space. Love that story, and think it might be Lovecraft's best - the premise is extremely simple but he manages to make the whole thing so unsettling. Which suggests there's more to Lovecraft than his ideas and his writing is effective, even if it's not conventionally 'good' writing. Anyhow, I picked up Dead Sea by Curran after someone mentioned it in the thread and it is... surprisingly effective, given how cheesy the premise is. I thought I was in for ghost ships and Cthulhu having yo-ho-ho ocean adventures together but it is actually pretty tense.
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Nov 22, 2017 08:48
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The Deep sounds GREAT. Picked that up and Dead Sea. Got a huge backlog though. Bumped Skullcrack city up to the top of the list, past From a Buick 8, which I was really enjoying. Only a few pages into Skulljack but really digging it. Cheers for the recommendation.
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Nov 22, 2017 12:42
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Solitair posted:The sequels make the horror elements escalate in scale, but the characters never get any more fleshed out than that. Ye Wenjie is the peak of 3D characters in that trilogy. Well that's both interesting and a little disappointing. Still, I may read the other two books, even with that in mind. The concepts were pretty compelling in the first one.
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Nov 22, 2017 16:37
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Chas McGill posted:Almost finished Southern Reach. My opinion vacillates between thinking it's pretty good or thinking it's a massive missed opportunity with the premise. I read the first two books of Southern Reach and experienced a strange reaction. While reading them I didn't like them very much, they felt wrong on some indefinable level which kept me reading without stopping but never quite feeling that I got the resolution I wanted. They haunted me for days afterward on a gut-sick level, I insisted I didn't like them, I hadn't enjoyed the experience. But looking back at them, I think that was the point. I found them unsettling in ways that few horror novels achieve. I don't want to read the third book until I'm sure I can handle that feeling again.
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Nov 22, 2017 18:44
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Hungry posted:I read the first two books of Southern Reach and experienced a strange reaction. While reading them I didn't like them very much, they felt wrong on some indefinable level which kept me reading without stopping but never quite feeling that I got the resolution I wanted. They haunted me for days afterward on a gut-sick level, I insisted I didn't like them, I hadn't enjoyed the experience. The second book in particular has that effect. There are lots of subtle details that have some really unsettling implications, that aren't really apparent right away and kind of sink in over time. I would not blame anyone for stopping after Annihilation though. Even with all the unanswered questions it leaves, it's plenty impactful on its own. But it's a very particular style of horror, and I can understand why it's not appealing to some. As for calling the books a missed opportunity, well, I'm of two minds on that. I don't disagree that Vandermeer probably could have made a pretty wide-reaching and influential series out of it, but I think he would have had to sacrifice a lot of that insidious, unsettling horror to do it. A lot of what makes the books memorable (though like you said, sometimes not until well after you've read them) is how subtle and understated some of the horror is. I hated Authority right after I read it, but ended up going back and re-reading bits of it after I finished the trilogy and found I liked it a lot more. Couldn't tell you why though. Ornamented Death posted:All good choices. Almost missed this! Thanks for the recs, I will absolutely be checking out Adam Cesare, I've been itching for something along those lines. Man, I want to try Slowly We Rot, because I've never read a zombie novel I've actually enjoyed (though World War Z was unique enough of a premise that I kinda dug it). Hopefully it would be different enough to not make me want to give up on it.
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Nov 22, 2017 18:55
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I feel like the southern tier books are kind of the opposite of a lot of cosmic horror. Unlike in Lovecraft or Ligotti the state of affairs doesn't manage to make a mockery of human existence; human meanings and purposes actually stand up pretty well in the face of Area X. By the end I felt reaffirmed in the value and complexity of human existence, the way I would from like a Dickens or Woolf novel
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Nov 22, 2017 19:20
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The Southern Reach is not horror, it's weird fiction. Vandermeer wasn't trying to scare anyone, he was trying to make them say "wtf?" This isn't aimed at anyone in particular, just something I feel needs to be pointed out for people that are interested in reading the series because a lot of complaints I see about it are "that wasn't scary at all!" or some variation. Also he's writing a sequel novella, due out next year.
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Nov 22, 2017 19:28
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Ornamented Death posted:The Southern Reach is not horror, it's weird fiction. Vandermeer wasn't trying to scare anyone, he was trying to make them say "wtf?" This isn't aimed at anyone in particular, just something I feel needs to be pointed out for people that are interested in reading the series because a lot of complaints I see about it are "that wasn't scary at all!" or some variation. True, I tend to throw around "horror" when talking about weird fiction as well, in part because I don't even really believe capital-h Horror needs to be scary. I wouldn't say there was more than maybe one moment in Bird Box or A Head Full of Ghosts (or The Exorcist, for that matter) that I found genuinely scary, but I'd still call all three horror novels. Not sure what I'd say if someone asked me flat out what makes a horror novel, but in my mind Southern Reach does whatever that is better than a lot of self-professed horror novels (The Terror, I'm looking at you). Plus nobody seems to know or have heard of weird fiction as a genre unless they already read weird fiction or a lot of horror, from my experience.
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Nov 22, 2017 19:43
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MockingQuantum posted:True, I tend to throw around "horror" when talking about weird fiction as well, in part because I don't even really believe capital-h Horror needs to be scary. I wouldn't say there was more than maybe one moment in Bird Box or A Head Full of Ghosts (or The Exorcist, for that matter) that I found genuinely scary, but I'd still call all three horror novels. Not sure what I'd say if someone asked me flat out what makes a horror novel, but in my mind Southern Reach does whatever that is better than a lot of self-professed horror novels (The Terror, I'm looking at you). Fair enough. I just like to be clear about expectations because the Southern Reach is a magnificent series, but going in with the assumption that its' a cosmic horror story in the vein of Lovecraft or Ligotti is bound to leave readers disappointed. I think it's also important to point out because Vandermeer himself is a huge fan of weird fiction but not necessarily of horror (or at least not to the same extent). Most of the criticism about The Weird was that a lot of the stories weren't scary, which while technically true, misses the point of that anthology.
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Nov 22, 2017 19:50
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MockingQuantum posted:Man, I want to try Slowly We Rot, because I've never read a zombie novel I've actually enjoyed . I'm tempted to add it to my reading list just because I used to love the Obituary song of the same name. 
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Nov 22, 2017 20:38
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Solitair posted:The sequels make the horror elements escalate in scale, but the characters never get any more fleshed out than that. Ye Wenjie is the peak of 3D characters in that trilogy.
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Nov 22, 2017 21:22
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Ornamented Death posted:Fair enough. I just like to be clear about expectations because the Southern Reach is a magnificent series, but going in with the assumption that its' a cosmic horror story in the vein of Lovecraft or Ligotti is bound to leave readers disappointed. Yeah I know a couple of people I've recommended The Weird to bounced off of it for that reason. Then I kind of tried to explain what weird fiction is, and they both basically said they wanted weird fiction instead of horror anyway, went back to it, and loved it. Expectations are weird.
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Nov 22, 2017 22:15
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The Southern Reach trilogy is one of my favorite pieces of weird fiction, and I had a similar reaction to Hungry and Mockingquantum. I read them all in practically a single sitting and felt pretty loving weird and unsettled for a couple of days afterwards. I agree that Authority in particular just has this feeling about it, you can really feel how something about the setting of the book as its presented is broken and wrong, and 'watching' that catch up to the protagonist really draws you in. The scene where everything slips all at once and its laid bare is pretty genuinely horrifying, although I would agree that the books aren't 'scary', but a lot of the stuff is pretty horrific.
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Nov 22, 2017 22:18
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All this talk reminds me I need to read Roadside Picnic one of these days. Probably soon.
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Nov 23, 2017 02:35
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MockingQuantum posted:Imago Sequence is definitely the strongest of his work, some really excellent stories in there. Barron does tend to be samey, but that means if you like some of his stuff, you'll probably like most of it. Occultation is hit and miss but also has some really great stories. I can't remember what collection it's in, but The Men from Porlock is also really good. Just finished this short story. Will have to ponder upon it. I think I understand wtf just happened, and I think I liked it? But its unsettling. I'm pretty sure he was reliving this incident in which he really did turn this woman over, but am unsure why exactly he is so removed from the knowledge if it is a hell. Unless that is the torment I suppose.
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Nov 23, 2017 05:34
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there was a time when if you criticized barron on this subforum that guy with the latios avatar would show up and yell at you for 5 pages
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Nov 23, 2017 05:44
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Goons goin soft these days I'm sure these manly men will get tired quickly but so far this a decent enough read. Then again, I like Hemmingway, but he gives his characters some variation. We'll see.
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Nov 23, 2017 05:58
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Barron's protagonists being generally the same doesn't bother me that much, honestly, but in general his work connects really well with me because I grew up in washington and spent a lot of time out in the wilderness in the olympics and etc, where he sets a lot of his stories. I can definitely understand why people don't like him, but he's consistently one of my favorite weird fiction authors. He just really, really nails the feel of that part of the country.
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Nov 23, 2017 06:08
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chernobyl kinsman posted:there was a time when if you criticized barron on this subforum that guy with the latios avatar would show up and yell at you for 5 pages That's not really what I was doing. I had to go back and check it out, but I argued with one guy because he flip-flopped and I called him on it (and then he fleshed out his criticism and I dropped it, as that's the reasonable thing to do in that situation) and I goonsay'd another guy because he railed against Barron not for anything inherently wrong with Barron or his work, but because he was tired of Barron being recommended so much over his favorite author. It was a total of like five posts between the two. I'm far more prone to getting wound up over Derleth  .
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Nov 23, 2017 07:31
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Ornamented Death posted:That's not really what I was doing. I had to go back and check it out, but I argued with one guy because he flip-flopped and I called him on it (and then he fleshed out his criticism and I dropped it, as that's the reasonable thing to do in that situation) and I goonsay'd another guy because he railed against Barron not for anything inherently wrong with Barron or his work, but because he was tired of Barron being recommended so much over his favorite author. It was a total of like five posts between the two. I'm far more prone to getting wound up over Derleth Derleth slap fights are the most futile (and fun). Everyone gets so angry.
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Nov 23, 2017 08:04
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Speaking of slap fights, I'm kind of waiting for the lines to be drawn over Joshi. A few of the thread regulars have brought up his bullshit in the past, but he's really put his foot in it over the last few weeks and it's blowing up in his face. By way of background, Joshi is blogging his take on 21st century horror with plans to publish the whole thing once it's done. The problem is that Joshi doesn't really get horror that isn't a) cosmic and b) cosmic that is heavily inspired by Lovecraft. His latest misstep was writing a chapter on Brian Keene and not only attacking the author himself, but going after Keene's fans. Say what you will about Keene's writing ability, but you'd be hard-pressed to find another author with such a deep and often personal relationship with his fans. Keene wasn't bothered by what Joshi said about him, but took the insult to his fans personally and blasted Joshi on social media. Unfortunately for Joshi, Keene's fans are very active on social media, so the whole thing went viral and it's lead to a lot of airing of Joshi's dirty laundry as an editor.
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Nov 23, 2017 08:20
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Joshi is a loving lunatic but he's put together some excellent collections and stuff. I'm glad he did, and won't shy away from checking out any new collections he edits or whatever, but he is a loving giant moron.
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Nov 23, 2017 08:29
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Ornamented Death posted:Speaking of slap fights, I'm kind of waiting for the lines to be drawn over Joshi. A few of the thread regulars have brought up his bullshit in the past, but he's really put his foot in it over the last few weeks and it's blowing up in his face. I had to Google, because that flew entirely under the radar for me. Hahahahaha. God drat. Those pictures + captions are brutal. http://www.briankeene.com/2017/11/04/the-ballad-of-s-t-joshi-or-saruman-and-wormtongue-meet-the-great-unwashed/ EDIT: and I'll second Hopterque. Joshi has always just struck me as a person that throws toddler level tantrums who does good work. But I'm also able to separate the work from the person (unless they are completely irredeemable). Some people can't and that's OK and perfectly valid. Proteus Jones fucked around with this message at 08:40 on Nov 23, 2017 |
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Nov 23, 2017 08:37
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hopterque posted:Joshi is a loving lunatic but he's put together some excellent collections and stuff. I'm glad he did, and won't shy away from checking out any new collections he edits or whatever, but he is a loving giant moron. His anthologies have gotten progressively worse over the years. I suspect it's because he keeps alienating the good mythos authors.
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Nov 23, 2017 08:47
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Ornamented Death posted:His anthologies have gotten progressively worse over the years. I suspect it's because he keeps alienating the good mythos authors. I haven't read one in a year or two I think but I'll still check future ones out based on his work with the Black Wings collections and most especially A Mountain Walked, but I'm definitely expecting a decline in quality since he's picking a fight with seemingly every well known author in the weird fiction community. The guy has clearly gone crazy or something at this point.
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Nov 23, 2017 09:47
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hopterque posted:Barron's protagonists being generally the same doesn't bother me that much, honestly, but in general his work connects really well with me because I grew up in washington and spent a lot of time out in the wilderness in the olympics and etc, where he sets a lot of his stories. I can definitely understand why people don't like him, but he's consistently one of my favorite weird fiction authors. He just really, really nails the feel of that part of the country. Hrm. Well I guess its time to read Sometimes a Great Notion next then.
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Nov 23, 2017 16:08
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Joshi is a thundering moron who is the foremost lovecraft "scholar" solely because no real academic has made the effort
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Nov 24, 2017 02:47
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I haven't read Keene in years but I was a huge fan when I was like 13-16 and he was the nicest guy. I met him a few times; he gave me a signed first edition of one his books gratis. He had (has?) a habit of writing prominent posters on his message boards into his books as side characters, and he killed me off in one of his novels. Years later he blocked me on twitter and sent a brigade after me for making fun of InfoWars.
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Nov 24, 2017 02:52
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He said if I could get to a horror convention he was at he'd drink beer with me. 
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Nov 24, 2017 12:52
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that said these interpersonal slapfights between genre authors are extremely embarrassing and do not reflect well on the maturity of the genre lol
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Nov 24, 2017 17:16
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chernobyl kinsman posted:that said these interpersonal slapfights between genre authors are extremely embarrassing and do not reflect well on the maturity of the genre lol I just googled “literary feuds” and I’m left thinking it has nothing to do with the “maturity of the genre” lmao
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Nov 24, 2017 17:36
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Paul Theroux loving Naipaul's wife is exactly the same as b-listers writing angsty blog posts at one another, noted
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Nov 24, 2017 17:39
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chernobyl kinsman posted:Paul Theroux loving Naipaul's wife is exactly the same as b-listers writing angsty blog posts at one another, noted I’ll get back to you in a few weeks with a pissy op-ed
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Nov 24, 2017 17:46
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chernobyl kinsman posted:Years later he blocked me on twitter and sent a brigade after me for making fun of InfoWars.  And all of a sudden, Joshi might be the lesser madman again
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Nov 24, 2017 18:31
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chernobyl kinsman posted:Paul Theroux loving Naipaul's wife is exactly the same as b-listers writing angsty blog posts at one another, noted In sf/f the b-listers would be writing angsty blog posts about the disintegration of their polycule
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Nov 24, 2017 22:50
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General Battuta posted:In sf/f the b-listers would be writing angsty blog posts about the disintegration of their polycule Did I miss one of your posts?
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Nov 24, 2017 22:52
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Word of advice about The Deep - you may find it a more upsetting read than most if you happen to have pets. On the other hand, if you liked it, I might suggest Seed by Ania Ahlborn. It’s small-scale supernatural horror without The Deep’s grander, more cosmic leanings, but it has an extremely similar tone - a dark, sadistic, and deeply personal psychological assault. The warning this time around, though, is for parents of young children.
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Nov 27, 2017 03:46
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Darth Walrus posted:Word of advice about The Deep - you may find it a more upsetting read than most if you happen to have pets. On the other hand, if you liked it, I might suggest Seed by Ania Ahlborn. It’s small-scale supernatural horror without The Deep’s grander, more cosmic leanings, but it has an extremely similar tone - a dark, sadistic, and deeply personal psychological assault. The warning this time around, though, is for parents of young children. I'm reading The Deep right now and dear lord are you right. I mean, it's not a book for the faint of heart in general, but yes, if you're an animal lover it's especially rough. I can already tell it's going to be high up on my list of favs though-- just the style and language really work for me. I will likely check out Seed as a result.
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Nov 27, 2017 07:26
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Speaking of The Deep - could someone spoil me on its story? I am very much a pet person so it's not something I am ever going to read but I'm also a huge sucker for everything marine horror.
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Nov 27, 2017 18:33
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