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Eponymous posted:God, it's like 17776 all over again. but 17776 is good?
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Nov 2, 2017 20:46
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Eponymous posted:God, it's like 17776 all over again. holy poo poo what the gently caress is this
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Nov 4, 2017 00:07
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Viva Miriya posted:holy poo poo what the gently caress is this Art. It's art.
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Nov 4, 2017 02:29
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I’m so glad someone posted their utter confusion first because I didn’t want to be the only one that had to...digest the depth of that. Is it deep? I’m not sure anymore but I do need to see when the bears are on this week.
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Nov 4, 2017 23:08
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My first exposure to bizarre art like that was the magnum pi/unfolders series of articles on the frontpage. Is there a word for it? Techno eerie? Bizarropunk?
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Nov 5, 2017 06:38
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JcDent posted:My first exposure to bizarre art like that was the magnum pi/unfolders series of articles on the frontpage. Is there a word for it? Techno eerie? Bizarropunk? New Weird, I believe.
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Nov 5, 2017 06:45
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nerdiest story told in four words that i've ever seen
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Nov 5, 2017 17:57
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Some news about the new game’s core mechanics: http://mailchi.mp/97ebeeae56cb/wrath-glory-newsletter-november-2017 So it’s basically a standard die pool game with the old West End Games super-die.
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Nov 23, 2017 02:45
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PantsOptional posted:Some news about the new game’s core mechanics: http://mailchi.mp/97ebeeae56cb/wrath-glory-newsletter-november-2017 Wow, yeah, that's basically WEG D6 except the Wild Die is now the Wrath die. I had a lot of fun with D6 in its day, and Star Wars D6 ReUP is pretty cool, but I'm a bit skeptical about how that'll transfer over to 40k.
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Nov 23, 2017 06:19
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thorsilver posted:Wow, yeah, that's basically WEG D6 except the Wild Die is now the Wrath die. I had a lot of fun with D6 in its day, and Star Wars D6 ReUP is pretty cool, but I'm a bit skeptical about how that'll transfer over to 40k. *shrug* At least it's bell curve probability as opposed to straight percentile. Don't get me wrong, Rogue Trader is my all time favorite game and is likely to remain that way, but I think we can all agree flat probability percentile leaves a lot to be desired. Now if they can actually make character creation dynamic and interesting, they may just have my attention here...
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Nov 23, 2017 07:37
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I wonder if the dice pools are going to remain manageable.
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Nov 23, 2017 09:46
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I play Shadowrun 4E, and so I remain unconcerned.
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Nov 23, 2017 11:04
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Hell, any one who plays GW wargames will also have a bucket of d6s. Being both a shadowrun and ork player I have more d6s than I know what to do with
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Nov 23, 2017 12:25
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Tias posted:I play Guard, and so I remain unconcerned.
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Nov 23, 2017 15:02
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PantsOptional posted:Some news about the new game’s core mechanics: http://mailchi.mp/97ebeeae56cb/wrath-glory-newsletter-november-2017 Interesting. I've never played west end games. How are the dice pools made, based on your skill? So the higher the skill, the more dice in the pool? Seems to me the problem that would come up with a larger dice pool is more chances to roll a 1 as well.
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Nov 23, 2017 17:34
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Werix posted:Interesting. I've never played west end games. How are the dice pools made, based on your skill? So the higher the skill, the more dice in the pool? Well, the West End aspect of it is the different colored die that dictates when complications arise for good or ill. Having a larger die pool just makes it more likely to succeed in this version since the Wrath Die is just one of the dice in your pool.
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Nov 23, 2017 17:44
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FYI, Rogue Trader core book PDF is $2.99 on DriveThru right now.
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Nov 24, 2017 04:26
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Werix posted:Interesting. I've never played west end games. How are the dice pools made, based on your skill? So the higher the skill, the more dice in the pool? The number on the character sheet is the number of dice you roll. This was a big advance in game design in the late 80s.
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Nov 24, 2017 04:31
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mllaneza posted:The number on the character sheet is the number of dice you roll. This was a big advance in game design in the late 80s. Thanks for clarifying that bucko, real helpful. I meant in the system this seems similar to, is it straight skill stat, or is it like governing attribute +skill ranks = dice rolled? Or I'm your parlance, what goes into that number on the sheet? Only real dice pool game I've played is Marvel Heroic roleplay. I'm more used to systems where your skill or whatever modifies a single dice roll.
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Nov 24, 2017 06:02
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Werix posted:Thanks for clarifying that bucko, real helpful. I heard tell on the Grimdark Podcast that, while they can't confirm much about the game, there is in fact a Strength Stat. So smart money would be Stat + Skill for dice pool, or some derived simple formula in that kind of ballpark. Very Shadowrun-esque. I honestly prefer the Star Wars dice pool system, where your Stat and Skill compliment eachother rather than adding a raw additional figure, but that would require them to use difference dice than a d6 (fun suggestion in that vein: Character abilities that upgrade d6's to d8's or d10's). Regardless, having what sounds like a semi-static 3 Success Target for most skill tests seems somewhat steep considering what we know so far about the game. You'd need at least 5 dice in a pool just to get a 50-50 shot at that, and while the exploding 6's mitigate that somewhat, it's not by a lot (could probably actually figure out the exact weighted amount, but I'll wait until I actually got the rulebook for that kind of spreadsheeting). It also feels like a very crit heavy game; 1/6 to roll a 1 and 1/6 to roll a 6, so you will have a positive or negative crit every 3 rolls on average. EDIT: OK, quick back of napkin math (please double check me) says that with 6's counting as 2 successes, the average weighted value of each die added to a pool would be 0.66 successes per die, making that skew the odds a lot more than I realized at first glance. So you'd only need 4 dice in a pool to hit 2.67 successes on average, so 4 dice is effectively your 50-50 hit rate. susan fucked around with this message at 06:31 on Nov 24, 2017 |
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Nov 24, 2017 06:25
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susan posted:I heard tell on the Grimdark Podcast that, while they can't confirm much about the game, there is in fact a Strength Stat. So smart money would be Stat + Skill for dice pool, or some derived simple formula in that kind of ballpark. Very Shadowrun-esque. I honestly prefer the Star Wars dice pool system, where your Stat and Skill compliment eachother rather than adding a raw additional figure, but that would require them to use difference dice than a d6 (fun suggestion in that vein: Character abilities that upgrade d6's to d8's or d10's). I'm bad at math, which is why I actually like the percentage based in the old FFG games and by extent WHFRP. It's easy for me to look at my stat, my skill, and any applicable test modifiers and go, "okay, I'm rolling against a 51, so I have slightly better than a coin flip. " Spreadsheets and averages and all that stuff is why I'm not in the STEM fields.
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Nov 24, 2017 14:57
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Yeah, same here. People complain about probabilities and I just go "bwuh"
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Nov 24, 2017 16:23
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thorsilver posted:Wow, yeah, that's basically WEG D6 except the Wild Die is now the Wrath die. I had a lot of fun with D6 in its day, and Star Wars D6 ReUP is pretty cool, but I'm a bit skeptical about how that'll transfer over to 40k. I've been playing star wars d6 lately and it's a horrible mechanic that shouldn't be resurrected. The 1 in 6 chance of fumbling makes everything a purely random shitshow
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Nov 24, 2017 16:38
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It's described as a complication, not a fumble, so it should be 1/6 "something else also happens" rather than 1/6 "you gently caress up and fail". How many people will actually grasp that concept is a different matter.
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Nov 24, 2017 16:55
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Werix posted:Thanks for clarifying that bucko, real helpful. Sorry mate, it is stat + skill.
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Nov 24, 2017 17:15
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JcDent posted:Yeah, same here. People complain about probabilities and I just go "bwuh" Yah I don't know why people poo poo on percentile systems. Like, if 31 out of 100 possible dice results are a success, it's a lot more transparent than rolling 5D6 (saving two dice) needing a total of nine with an additional complication die. It's a lot less suspenseful at the table to throw a single D%, but at the end of that math mess it's still essentially a percentage chance of success.
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Nov 24, 2017 17:51
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Yeah, I never poo poo on percentile systems. The big problems with the FFG system was how poorly the books were written, and how combat becomes rocket tag after a certain point. The percentile system itself worked well for combat and skill tests, giving you a good chance of odds success or of hitting. So long as there isn't a dodge, or parry, or power field. I always thought dodge/parry should have been figured into the hit DC of the attacker just to streamline that process.
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Nov 24, 2017 20:01
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or a high dodge/parry plus a power field. It's great if you're the one with it, annoying when you are the gm trying to scale the fights to it.
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Nov 24, 2017 21:28
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Ronwayne posted:or a high dodge/parry plus a power field. It's great if you're the one with it, annoying when you are the gm trying to scale the fights to it. I am literally That Guy in susan's game. It's kind of nice to play the dumb muscle once in a while.
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Nov 24, 2017 21:56
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Ronwayne posted:or a high dodge/parry plus a power field. It's great if you're the one with it, annoying when you are the gm trying to scale the fights to it. Like having someone in the party with literally 100 parry. He's a melee guy that can't be attacked by other melee guys. So it is either engage him at range, where he can't melee other folks, have him outnumbered so his multiple reactions bite the dust, or have constant feint competitions. As a GM it puts me in one hell of a place designing encounters to challenge him without just having stuff shoot him at range he can't attack back. High level games present bizarre challenges for GMs.
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Nov 24, 2017 23:13
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Werix posted:Like having someone in the party with literally 100 parry. He's a melee guy that can't be attacked by other melee guys. So it is either engage him at range, where he can't melee other folks, have him outnumbered so his multiple reactions bite the dust, or have constant feint competitions. just tactically nuke the party at that point and start a new game hth
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Nov 24, 2017 23:25
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Give huge npcs melee weapons that have to be dodged with a dark souls style roll, no parry.
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Nov 24, 2017 23:35
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I'd like to point out that lightning attack and swift attack both cause multiple hits, which means you need a lot of parry successes in order to block them all.
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Nov 24, 2017 23:48
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Werix posted:Like having someone in the party with literally 100 parry. He's a melee guy that can't be attacked by other melee guys. So it is either engage him at range, where he can't melee other folks, have him outnumbered so his multiple reactions bite the dust, or have constant feint competitions. It felt kinda bad having Brother Tychon solo a Trygon in one corner of the battle last week, slapping away every attack while swinging on it 4 times a round with Lightning Claws at effectively 115% to hit. Not bad enough not to do it, mind, but still kinda bad. My thoughts on Percentile vs Pool is really down to mathematical cleanliness. A single static roll vs multiple independent rolls means percentile is a lot swingier, a lot more random, where pools tend to gravitate towards average a lot more, and are therefore much more controllable for players, GMs, and game designers. This especially gets troublesome when you factor in pre set bonuses/penalties to rolls, which can lead to wholly unsatisfying results by making things trivial or impossible when they should be fluid and dynamic. A solo Space Marine fighting a Tyranid Bio Tank in hand to have combat should be cinematic and horrifying, when in practice the Trygon had almost literally no chance against me.
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Nov 24, 2017 23:59
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Viva Miriya posted:just tactically nuke the party at that point and start a new game hth I might be buying dodge mastery soon so even this might not help. 1st ed dh ascension vindicare dodges ahoy. Ronwayne fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Nov 25, 2017 |
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Nov 25, 2017 02:48
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Is that the one that removes the range limit on the blast radius dodge?
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Nov 25, 2017 03:00
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Viva Miriya posted:just tactically nuke the party at that point and start a new game hth You do know you're in that game, right?
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Nov 25, 2017 03:45
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Werix posted:You do know you're in that game, right? yes
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Nov 25, 2017 06:24
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Maybe the rules shouldn't allow you to trivially achieve attacks or rolls that are impossible to fail. I don't understand how a dicepool would prevent that. Like, I have a WMH playing bud who doesn't like that Hams has only one dice for any task. I don't get the difference between rolling 5+ on a d6 and 10 or 11 on 2d6
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Nov 25, 2017 15:39
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JcDent posted:Maybe the rules shouldn't allow you to trivially achieve attacks or rolls that are impossible to fail. I don't understand how a dicepool would prevent that. The difference is in how hard it is to get off the RNG. In 40k as it stands, your goal is usually to crank your skill up enough that you can't fail, because what you're actually doing is making sure that you won't waste your actions doing the thing your character is supposed to be good at. This means stacking reroll talents and getting a WS of 55 so when you charge something it drat well dies even if you roll Another Goddamn 80. Dicepool systems heavily gravitate towards the mean, which give a lower but more consistent result and as a result people tend to like them more -- because they have built in protection from Goddamn 80s.
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Nov 25, 2017 19:50
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