|
Sakurazuka posted:Oh yeah sure I'll just scroll through menus for five minutes every time I want to do something that isn't auto-attack. And also the cast plot and setting of 12 are the worst they've ever been since FF had characters with names and arcs. All the ivalice games sans FF14 and Vagrant story are really bad. Lightning is the best, FF13-3 is still one of the best games ever made. Don't at me. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 09:48 on Nov 25, 2017 |
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 09:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 15:36 |
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:And also the cast plot and setting of 12 are the worst they've ever been since FF had characters with names and arcs. hell same. vagrant story proves that matsuno can write a character-focused story when he wants to, but he just doesn't even when he needs to. he's great if you're the kind of guy who likes to read datalogs and poo poo, but i sure as hell ain't one of em
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 09:46
|
|
|
Sakurazuka posted:Oh yeah sure I'll just scroll through menus for five minutes every time I want to do something that isn't auto-attack. Five minutes is definitely an exaggeration; there's only the one additional step of selecting the kind of magic you want to use from under Magicks and Technicks. You also get to choose the order in which your dudes do the things without having to skip turns or defend or some bullshit and cancel out of spells with other actions if the situation changes, which is more depth than most mainline installments have. 12 isn't even my favourite gameplaywise (thatd be 7), but framing it as just "a game that plays itself" is inaccurate.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 09:47
|
|
|
The White Dragon posted:hell same. vagrant story proves that matsuno can write a character-focused story when he wants to, but he just doesn't even when he needs to. I am one of those weirdoes and most of the ivalice games aren't really good at that. FFT was but A/A2 and 12 are just....awful when it comes to presenting and building on their settings.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 09:50
|
|
|
Yes I was exaggerating because the menus in FF12 are incredibly slow and laggy to navigate through and the only way to play the game without Gambits actively makes it even less fun. But no you're right I should have said 'a game that plays itself apart from the four times an hour you might have to adjust your tactics slightly'
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 09:52
|
|
|
Currently playing through the zodiac age for the first time since FF12 first came out and yes the story and characters are dumb and awful except baltier, he's still cool but I'm not really sure I'm able to expand much more on that
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 09:55
|
|
|
fridge corn posted:Currently playing through the zodiac age for the first time since FF12 first came out and yes the story and characters are dumb and awful except baltier, he's still cool but I'm not really sure I'm able to expand much more on that The cool thing is you're probably able to expand on the characters more than the story actually does! It sucks. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 10:15 on Nov 25, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 09:57
|
|
|
The jokes cover it up a bit but Balthier is a pretty hollow character himself. "Hollow" seems like a pretty descriptive word for FF12 in general.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 11:56
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:And also the cast plot and setting of 12 are the worst they've ever been since FF had characters with names and arcs. FF13 has got its own problems but Lightning Returns is legit underrated imho.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 12:12
|
|
|
Here we go again! *puts gun to head* *shoots afro* *screams in pain for five minutes due to ringing in ears*
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 13:11
|
|
|
Elephant Ambush posted:And yeah the datalogs are weird. I never read them my first time through but I'm taking the time to read all of them this time and yeah some of them present facts that aren't mentioned at all in cutscenes. Some of the datalogs even make small but important retcons to some of the cutscenes. It's really bizarre how this stuff made it in. I don't think any of the retcons are as important like you say (using the term very loosely here tbh; it's not normally what I'd say is described as a retcon). The things it adds are usually just minor motivations that aren't explicitly said but generally implied by single small dialogue lines or cutscene actions. It helps reinforce things so they make slightly more sense, but everything important is still just in what the cutscenes show. fluffyDeathbringer posted:Five minutes is definitely an exaggeration; there's only the one additional step of selecting the kind of magic you want to use from under Magicks and Technicks. You also get to choose the order in which your dudes do the things without having to skip turns or defend or some bullshit and cancel out of spells with other actions if the situation changes, which is more depth than most mainline installments have. Kinda lol that you say this about 12, when a lot of this can directly be applied to 13 which is probably the 2nd most claimed to be automated. I do agree that there are some aspects are exaggerated about 12's gameplay, but I do really think that it's hard not to see the automation argument there. 13 has automation too, but breaking out of the automation (typically via paradigm switching, manual command inputs, or delaying command strings) feels fun and rewarding and is set up to be fast. On the other hand, breaking out of 12's automation (typically via manual command inputs or changing around gambit settings or active party or equipment) slows things down, and makes me think I'm putting the brakes on the game whenever I want to change something. Even if the game doesn't always play itself, it feels like the systems want that to be the case, which is the important distinction from other games with lighter automation. Ventana fucked around with this message at 14:50 on Nov 25, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 14:34
|
|
|
What the hell is this?
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 15:57
|
|
|
Final Fantasy 12 is actually really good and the best Final Fantasy game since the PS1 era.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 16:19
|
|
|
esperterra posted:FFXV is good. My picture was of Cindy's bosoms so I laughed hysterically at the end
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 16:54
|
|
|
I haven't really formed an opinion on 13 due to not having played it myself, so I didn't mean it as a slam on that one or whatever. It just throws me off whenever people talk about how 12 is too automated when... the manual gameplay is right there. But I guess that's just because I never felt like I had to use gambits*, if that makes sense, and it all comes down to difference of experience. Sorry if I was being obnoxious about this. *outside the superbosses, but come on
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 16:55
|
|
|
Electric Phantasm posted:What the hell is this? Looks like Hanjuku Hero 4. E: Didn't realize it was in the original response.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 17:01
|
|
|
Raxivace posted:The jokes cover it up a bit but Balthier is a pretty hollow character himself. Yeah people like to claim Balthier is this legendary stand out character, but in reality he just seems like he is because he's in the Final Fantasy with the worst party in the series. In the grand scheme of things he's a C-lister at best.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 17:09
|
|
|
LOCUST FART HELL posted:Yeah people like to claim Balthier is this legendary stand out character, but in reality he just seems like he is because he's in the Final Fantasy with the worst party in the series. In the grand scheme of things he's a C-lister at best.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 17:16
|
|
|
Balthier is a character that is just totally over Final Fantasy plots and has dad issues, of course he's going to be popular in the Final Fantasy thread just from being relatable.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 17:22
|
|
|
Balthier has a ton of charisma and good dialogue which can carry someone a long way.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 17:22
|
|
|
nah he's good
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 17:22
|
|
|
TurnipFritter posted:Final Fantasy 12 is actually really good and the best Final Fantasy game since the PS1 era. Yeah, for me to poop on 
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 17:33
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:I am one of those weirdoes and most of the ivalice games aren't really good at that. FFT was but A/A2 and 12 are just....awful when it comes to presenting and building on their settings. Honestly, I thought A2 was good at that. I loved all the flavor text for the quests and little subzones.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 17:42
|
|
|
Ventana posted:Kinda lol that you say this about 12, when a lot of this can directly be applied to 13 which is probably the 2nd most claimed to be automated. Only true if you don't understand FF13's combat system at all! The important part of 13's system. the one the game is built around. isn't about selecting specific moves, though you can out-optimized the auto chooser p. easier juts by not being brain dead, it's about building a good set of paradigms and understand the classes' roles and smart switching back and forth between the sets. That's why the auto-atb is even a thing, because they designed an actual combat system with ideas behind it and they knew the player should be focused on Paradigm Shifting more than individual move selection.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 19:10
|
|
|
I know, I'm frequently one of the posters who keeps talking about liking 13's combat and how it's more than it seems. I just found it funny since both games were being compared to each other, and both these games normally had similar complaints about them, and someone defending 12's over 13's in this regard. I don't think fluffyDeathbringer was being obnoxious about it, but I do think it's just a matter of perception with these games. There are some complicated actions you can take in both when it comes to battles, but it's stuff that won't apply normally unless you explore the systems or try to speedrun them. And it can be difficult for people to get over those perceptions or explore a game if they just don't like it. I just think 12 is worse at this perception, and the way the systems are set up don't do it any favors when there isn't (often?) that much incentive to do common poo poo w/o gambits versus FF13 autobattle which easily falls apart from simple things like "actually control a synergist" if you don't use manual inputs.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 19:44
|
|
|
Gambits are great for managing routine stuff that I wouldn't want to have to micromanage constantly, but I was always manually interrupting to tweak strategies and try to recover from situational changes in the hunts, optional espers, and harder boss fights (which, thankfully, there are a crap-ton of). And I found those fights to be the most fun I've had in the entire FF series. Maybe that isn't the case if you overlevel and can just power through everything on a basic gambit setup, but I was chronically underleveled and it was great.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 21:11
|
|
|
Just play using ONLY gambits and pretend that it's a very elaborate yet also simple Zachtronics game.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 22:03
|
|
|
Im just before ridorana in my zodiac age playthrough and im getting kinda bored of it tbh Still way better than 13 or 15 tho
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 22:04
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:And also the cast plot and setting of 12 are the worst they've ever been since FF had characters with names and arcs. Fft owns you dummy
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 22:08
|
|
|
I just wish FFT had slightly less demons
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 22:14
|
|
|
FFT was the last good game that square made
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 22:19
|
|
|
I wish FFT had more demons and maybe they'd kiss each other.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 22:20
|
|
|
corn in the bible posted:Fft owns you dummy FFT owns if you ignore how slow every combat is, how awful most of the story missions are, how busted 90% of the games mechanics really are and how only 2 characters actually are interesting or matter!
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 22:22
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:FFT owns if you ignore how slow every combat is, how awful most of the story missions are, how busted 90% of the games mechanics really are and how only 2 characters actually are interesting or matter! FFT owns even when you don't ignore those things
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 22:22
|
|
|
Combat and mechanics are bad in all video game. Fft has good imfrastructure Tha can be made into something resembling a "game" with mods at least. I like all the characters. They do take a backseat to the chapter 4 demon focus, which is bad. it could've used more missions like the one where you open the floodgate
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 22:27
|
|
|
What was wrong with ATB, though?
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 22:27
|
|
|
fridge corn posted:Final Fantasy The Spirits Within was the last movie that square made truth
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 22:30
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:FFT owns if you ignore how slow every combat is, how awful most of the story missions are, how busted 90% of the games mechanics really are and how only 2 characters actually are interesting or matter! None of those things are bad
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 22:30
|
|
|
GulagDolls posted:Combat and mechanics are bad in all video game. I disagree
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 22:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 15:36 |
|
|
The White Dragon posted:truth Why would you edit my post to make this post?
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 22:33
|
|