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Al-Saqr posted:Dubai police chief 'Crazy Dhahi' calls for aljazeera to be bombed How much of the Gulf spat is just about Al Jazeera? Reading articles like the following, I can see why the thin skinned Arab monarchs are so pissed. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/10/verge-splitting-yemen-171020063508888.html quote:After a tumultuous marriage of more than 27 years, South Yemen appears to be edging closer to divorcing the north in a move politically and financially sponsored by the oil-rich United Arab Emirates (UAE). It's a good article. . . but I can't help but feel it was written expressly to piss off the UAE. I find it difficult to interpret this kind of media and what kind of bias and narrative is present.
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Nov 26, 2017 02:00
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A lot of it is about Al Jazeera, with a side helping of Qatar being supportive of Morsi in Egypt - but even that has a bit to do with AJ because they were happy to air Muslim Brotherhood and other opposition* figures. I'm still sad the Emirate started leaning more on AJ but they do good work and aren't totally a state propaganda arm. also Team Saudi declaring cold war on Al Jazeera probably hasn't helped the latter feel goodwill toward the former
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Nov 26, 2017 04:28
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The UAE is sponsoring the return of communism to Yemen?
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Nov 26, 2017 05:08
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The X-man cometh posted:The UAE is sponsoring the return of communism to Yemen? After reading the article it seems to me they want a South Yemen as a bulwark against the Houthis-controlled north. The Saudis are against the idea.
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Nov 26, 2017 05:48
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OhFunny posted:After reading the article it seems to me they want a South Yemen as a bulwark against the Houthis-controlled north. The Saudis are against the idea. Yes, although I'd be careful about reading too far into it. The framing of the article appears designed exaggerate UAE support for secessionism and to make the gulf between Saudi and the UAE appear as great and acrimonious as possible. Aden was a hotbed of anti-Sana'a sentiment long before the current war, and the coalition turned to pro-secession militias from the very beginning of the intervention simply because there were few other friendly factions in the country. Not that petty infighting and disorder would be surprising among the anti-Houthi coalition, but I don't really trust this presentation.
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Nov 26, 2017 07:15
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The X-man cometh posted:Is there any possible that ISIS didn't attack the Sinai mosque? I could see both Sisi and MBS doing something this awful. 'False flag' conspiracies are almost always bullshit and when they are real they're usually things like bomb attacks or artillery where there's less of a risk of something going badly wrong. Even then there's stuff like the Russian apartment bombings were the FSB was constantly screwing up and getting caught planting the bombs, announcing the attacks early, etc. IS has a history of targeting Muslim civilians and neither Sisi nor the Saudis have any good motive for doing something like this. I imagine the forum reactions are from fairweather ISIS fans who dismissed previous atrocities as western/regime propaganda realizing what the people they're supporting are actually about.
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Nov 26, 2017 09:49
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Fallen Hamprince posted:IS has a history of targeting Muslim civilians and neither Sisi nor the Saudis have any good motive for doing something like this. I imagine the forum reactions are from fairweather ISIS fans who dismissed previous atrocities as western/regime propaganda realizing what the people they're supporting are actually about. There are people like this?
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Nov 26, 2017 09:54
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Hey, Al-Saqr and whoever else, you might enjoy seeing the 'anti-imperialists' slathering all over those big boys like Assad and Putin: Something to celebrate the war in Syria is over and America lost.
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Nov 26, 2017 16:16
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khwarezm posted:Hey, Al-Saqr and whoever else, you might enjoy seeing the 'anti-imperialists' slathering all over those big boys like Assad and Putin: Yeah Salon is still garbage I see.
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Nov 26, 2017 16:45
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Josef bugman posted:There are people like this? Not here there aren't. He may be disingenuously conflating ISIS and the nasty bits of the Syrian opposition, and then marginally less disingenuously conflating support for the Syrian opposition in general with support for Al Nusra and friends in particular.
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Nov 26, 2017 17:11
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This Salon article is really incredible.quote:Renewed alignments and realignments have proceeded apace for much of this year. King Salman spent four days summiting in Moscow a few months ago — a stunning signal of new thinking in Saudi Arabia since he took the throne not quite two years ago. Turkey and Russia, viciously at odds when the latter first entered the Syrian conflict on Damascus’ behalf, are now cooperating as allies. Note in this connection a senior Turkish minister’s suggestion last week that Turkey’s NATO membership has to be reconsidered. Where does this end, you have to ask? quote:Russia is without question leading an effective multilateral effort to bring peace and an acceptable political settlement to a nation whose tragedy the U.S.–led “coalition” has long been intent on prolonging. quote:Chronology helps here. Moscow’s first move in this direction followed the American-cultivated coup in Ukraine in February 2014. It was 18 months later that the first Russian bombs dropped on Islamic State militias and other anti–Damascus jihadists who enjoyed U.S. support. I rest my case on this succession of events. And I applaud Washington’s failures in both cases, of course. In Ukraine the U.S. got its coup, but got no further in its effort to draw up to Russia’s western borders. It is now stuck with an intractably corrupt regime in Kiev, an economy on life support from the International Monetary Fund, and responsibility for a lot of pointless suffering. In Syria the result speaks for itself — at least so far. quote:Scrape it away, readers. Washington has lost in Syria. This is what the Times was mumbling about after Assad and Putin met. U.S. alliances with some of the world’s most reactionary despots may become a thing of the past. Its regime-change habit has been effectively challenged. "Patrick Lawrence is Salon’s foreign affairs columnist. A longtime correspondent abroad, chiefly for the International Herald Tribune and The New Yorker, he is also an essayist, critic and editor"
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Nov 26, 2017 17:43
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:I feel it necessary to point out that Russia's borders expanding into Ukraine brings them closer to the US. Not to nitpick, but by destabilizing Ukraine, they prevent NATO integration(unlikely but Russia is a bit nuts), and physical distance to the US isn’t that important. Their military assets in Crimea were there before so how close they are hasn’t changed.
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Nov 26, 2017 18:00
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Coldwar timewarp posted:Not to nitpick, but by destabilizing Ukraine, they prevent NATO integration(unlikely but Russia is a bit nuts), and physical distance to the US isn’t that important. Their military assets in Crimea were there before so how close they are hasn’t changed. Plus the Baltic borders are far closer to St Petersburg than any Ukraine borders, and I think they're also better placed for attacking Moscow, if we're going to think that way. And America has already bordered Russia directly on the east for the past 150 years, they're only like 2.5 miles apart by sea. Most winters the ocean even freezes up enough that you can walk from the US to Russia there! If you'd like to get shot, that is. 
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Nov 26, 2017 18:12
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Count Roland posted:Yeah Salon is still garbage I see. Straight up calls the Russia-Syria alliance a 'new order' in the middle east, hard to get more fashy than that.
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Nov 26, 2017 18:26
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fishmech posted:Plus the Baltic borders are far closer to St Petersburg than any Ukraine borders, and I think they're also better placed for attacking Moscow, if we're going to think that way. Ukraine joining NATO would bring them about 170km or so closer to Moscow, and also envelope Belarus on two sides. (Russian strategic planning obviously is more concerned about Moscow.) Also, once Ukraine joins NATO, it would essentially be lost to them entirely, while the current situation is actually much more in flux. (There is plenty to talk about on this topic.) Also, I don't think Russia cares about anything remotely near Alaska beyond the Kamchatka peninsula itself, anything north of it is essentially depopulated and really has no useful infrastructure. The Salon article is obviously a blow-job for Putin. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Nov 26, 2017 |
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Nov 26, 2017 18:31
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It was a joke guys. Gals. Folks.
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Nov 26, 2017 18:42
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Ardennes posted:Ukraine joining NATO would bring them about 170km or so closer to Moscow, and also envelope Belarus on two sides. (Russian strategic planning obviously is more concerned about Moscow.) Also, once Ukraine joins NATO, it would essentially be lost to them entirely, while the current situation is actually much more in flux. (There is plenty to talk about on this topic.) Ukraine is lost to them entirely, 100% already. Russia has already outright annexed the regions that contained the majority of ethnic Russians from where the pro-Russian factions drew their powerbase and influence.
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Nov 26, 2017 18:52
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Sergg posted:Ukraine is lost to them entirely, 100% already. Russia has already outright annexed the regions that contained the majority of ethnic Russians from where the pro-Russian factions drew their powerbase and influence. Recent polling suggests that party politics in Ukraine has become more fragmented even without the eastern regions. I suspect Russia is hoping to eventually return those regions to Ukraine (when Ukraine is weak enough) in exchange for some type of federalized structure. Russia hasn't walked about of Minsk for a reason, and I suspect that the recent take over a Luhansk was a sign of further consolidation. One issue has been the rise of the "For Life" party which has become a left-leaning anti-Nato alternative to the Opposition Bloc but nevertheless has been able to accrue its own share of voters. In addition, the Radical Party and Svoboda has been doing surprisingly well. At this point, there really isn't a strong consensus in the Ukrainian politics, especially since the Western-leaning parties have been taking a hit to their popularity. Also, other polling has suggested that the standard of living hasn't improved since the heart of the crisis and may gradually still be declining. The reason for this is complex, and may simply due to the continued weakness of the Hryvnia and Ukrainian exports, tight measures by the IMF, a very high debt burden, and war costs. It would still be a real push for a Euroskeptic/anti-NATO coalition to come to power, the more likely scenario is a deadlock or sheer lack of consensus. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Nov 26, 2017 |
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Nov 26, 2017 19:11
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Why did the US help ISIS evacuate? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/raqqas_dirty_secret
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Nov 26, 2017 20:26
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Nasrallah's claiming that US is still helping ISIS on the ground https://twitter.com/PeterPyke/status/934761404485091329
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Nov 26, 2017 20:28
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tekz posted:Why did the US help ISIS evacuate? To end the fighting, this was an SDF decision.
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Nov 26, 2017 20:51
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Steven Cook from foreign policy is getting some of that fine saudi dick that Friedman is slurping. https://twitter.com/stevenacook/status/933054390767964160
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Nov 26, 2017 21:44
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Shageletic posted:Yeah the linkage of blackwater which doesn't even exist anymore (I think even Xe might be defunct) and the fact its the daily mail makes that particular claim look super bullshit. But yeah they're obvi being tortured by someone. Well, yes, it's DM so take it as you will. I respect folks enough ITT to keep the source in mind without a disclaimer. (*Fun fact: I was personally reported on in DM who made up some minor facts about the story for the sake of narrative. Last I checked, a note to the editor didn't change the article - so, yes, I'm personally aware.) Asian Times has a piece indicating the Daily Mail source might be implying they're mercs put together by Erik Prince awhile ago: http://www.atimes.com/article/mbss-supreme-anti-corruption-committee-torturing-ritz-detainees/. Again, take what you will from it. CrazyLoon posted:MBS confirmed having (fake) multiple personality disorder would be p epic. Mr. Robot-themed spin off. TheDeadlyShoe posted:This Salon article is really incredible. I'm just accepting that no editorial board in the US of A seems to know fuckall about ME. Just read this... Christian Science Monitor posted:The global spread of a culture of integrity  not even linking this turd of an editorial
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Nov 26, 2017 22:17
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tekz posted:Why did the US help ISIS evacuate? Refraining from bombing a convoy is stretching the definition of helpfulness.
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Nov 26, 2017 23:40
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Count Roland posted:Its a big blow to Sisi's image and legitimacy. If a military dictator can't keep down a rebellion and keep people safe, what's he good for? I read your post earlier and didn't think otherwise. Then this came up on my feed: https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-s...e-idUKKBN1DQ0EU The timing's pretty drat convenient, at the very least.
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Nov 26, 2017 23:46
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guidoanselmi posted:Well, yes, it's DM so take it as you will. I respect folks enough ITT to keep the source in mind without a disclaimer. (*Fun fact: I was personally reported on in DM who made up some minor facts about the story for the sake of narrative. Last I checked, a note to the editor didn't change the article - so, yes, I'm personally aware.) The gently caress? Is that actually an editorial or was it just an opinion piece? Over the past couple years I’ve realized it’s actually really cheap for foreign autocrats to buy several inches of column in big American papers. I was reading some dreck by a US Congresswoman not long ago that could have come straight from Turkey’s foreign office. Saudi has so many stooges inside the beltway it’s ridiculous.
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Nov 27, 2017 00:42
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guidoanselmi posted:I read your post earlier and didn't think otherwise. Then this came up on my feed: https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-s...e-idUKKBN1DQ0EU Meh, not really. I mean, do we think that this "security alliance" was invented and talked about and written and agreed upon in the last couple days? Well no, for it to be announced it must have already been written and waiting. So sure, this attack could have been staged to justify the agreement. But why bother? Egypt has been getting close to KSA since Sisi came to power. An alliance between the two countries is hardly surprising, and Sisi faces very limited political opposition at home, making it hard for me to believe an attack of this magnitude would be required to convince the military or elites or the populace that this alliance is necessary. On the other hand, crises are the perfect time to take the controversial law off the shelf and get it passed. That's what happened in the US after 9/11. All sorts of lovely police-state style laws got dusted off, bundled into the Patriot Act and passed without anyone reading it. I'm open minded when it comes to conspiracy theories (because they can and do occur) but I like to have something to back it up.
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Nov 27, 2017 01:29
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guidoanselmi posted:I read your post earlier and didn't think otherwise. Then this came up on my feed: https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-s...e-idUKKBN1DQ0EU Feh. If they were waiting for a terrorist attack to announce something, unfortunately, all they needed was a bit of patience. No reason to go full truther about it.
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Nov 27, 2017 01:33
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tekz posted:Why did the US help ISIS evacuate? Im honestly unsure of my values when it comes to finishing off the last holdouts of one of the shittier sects of the 21st century, versus allowing 4000 of them to flee and hasten the end of some fairly comprehensive urban fighting. It's one of those things where in any other instance not allowing safe passage out would be abhorrent, but... It's daesh.
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Nov 27, 2017 03:11
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Count Roland posted:Meh, not really. I mean, do we think that this "security alliance" was invented and talked about and written and agreed upon in the last couple days? Well no, for it to be announced it must have already been written and waiting. Yeah, I'm not saying they did it as you only need to wait a ~month between major attacks in MENA. At the very least the timing provides some more raison d'etre for the meeting & some talking points. If a conspiracy is behind it, I simply wouldn't be surprised as there the means & motivation are there. Speaking of, I don't think Sisi's been solidly in the Saudi camp as recent as the shake-up: From 2016: https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2016/05/iran-saudi-egypt-sisi-rapprochment-salman-visit.html Post-MBS shake-up: https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...m=.2f1e3207cddc Squalid posted:The gently caress? Is that actually an editorial or was it just an opinion piece? By "The Monitor's Editorial Board" which is a shame because I've generally looked favorably at CSM.
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Nov 27, 2017 03:44
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Willie Tomg posted:Im honestly unsure of my values when it comes to finishing off the last holdouts of one of the shittier sects of the 21st century, versus allowing 4000 of them to flee and hasten the end of some fairly comprehensive urban fighting. The colder part of me really does feel like just blowing up that convoy en-route, once it was out of the city, would've spared the whole world a fuckton of future terrorist attacks and misery (according to that driver in the interview, they collectively shat their pants at a US jet flying over them, likely because they knew they'd be utterly screwed if that was the call that got made). Of course, the other part of me knows there were kids and the truck drivers, that got conned into this bullshit, that were part of that convoy too. Even if the kids were all wearing suicide belts thanks to their lovely genocidal parents. CrazyLoon fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Nov 27, 2017 |
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Nov 27, 2017 06:21
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I didn't realize this thread was so open minded about highway of deaths.
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Nov 27, 2017 06:27
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I'm also conflicted, but I think giving people the option to put the guns down and go home is important because you can never kill them all and you don't know how many innocents will die if you try. Ideally, you'd want to make sure they won't pick up arms again, but it's hard to be sure of anything in a war zone. I don't know what will happen to the fighters and families bussed out of Raqqa, but I feel like the fact that they agreed at all probably means they're sick of fighting and most just want to keep their families safe. I understand the desire to see them face justice and I feel the same way about Assad, but wars are about more than justice and the preservation of life sometimes takes precedence.
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Nov 27, 2017 07:05
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Squalid posted:Over the past couple years I’ve realized it’s actually really cheap for foreign autocrats to buy several inches of column in big American papers. I was reading some dreck by a US Congresswoman not long ago that could have come straight from Turkey’s foreign office. Saudi has so many stooges inside the beltway it’s ridiculous.
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Nov 27, 2017 08:27
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Volkerball posted:I didn't realize this thread was so open minded about highways of death. ftfy
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Nov 27, 2017 09:32
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Inevitable outcome inevitably happens: Long Divided, Iran Unites Against Trump and Saudis in a Nationalist Fervor https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/26/world/middleeast/iran-nationalism-saudi-arabia-donald-trump.html quote:In short, it appears that Mr. Trump and the Saudis have helped the government achieve what years of repression could never accomplish: widespread public support for the hard-line view that the United States and Riyadh cannot be trusted and that Iran is now a strong and capable state capable of staring down its enemies.
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Nov 27, 2017 14:18
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Its also important to reiterate that the decision to let ISIS leave Raqqa was made by the SDF fighters that were the ones doing the dying to take the city. The US honored their negotiation with ISIS. Letting the last holdouts leave vs systematically eliminating them as they fight to the death is not a unique decision in history. It won them the city, and now most of those fighters can get killed during routine operations like bombing strongpoints ahead of the next siege. It also showed some mercy, and means ISIS might take the same deal the next time, and the next time, till they have lost all their cities and are defeated.
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Nov 27, 2017 14:59
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mediadave posted:Inevitable outcome inevitably happens: genuinly sad. Irans goverment is loving terrible but there was chance of future reform/hell maybe populist overthrow if we let the country open up and etc. Now trump has made the same mistake the Iraqis made in the 80s and the Persians have rallied around the flag and to their homeland and now a hardliner will be in power. good times ahead indeed. Duckbox posted:I'm also conflicted, but I think giving people the option to put the guns down and go home is important because you can never kill them all and you don't know how many innocents will die if you try. Ideally, you'd want to make sure they won't pick up arms again, but it's hard to be sure of anything in a war zone. apparently alot of them had suicide vests on including the kids. so who knows.
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Nov 27, 2017 15:44
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Dapper_Swindler posted:genuinly sad. Irans goverment is loving terrible but there was chance of future reform/hell maybe populist overthrow if we let the country open up and etc. Now trump has made the same mistake the Iraqis made in the 80s and the Persians have rallied around the flag and to their homeland and now a hardliner will be in power. good times ahead indeed. Which is why I hope that European policy will keep a certain openness and play the good cop to the US's bad cop. In other news, according to the NYT, MBS will probably have to abort the privatization of Aramco. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/14/world/middleeast/saudi-arabia-mohammed-bin-salman.html quote:The extrajudicial arrests have spooked investors enough, analysts say, to extinguish the prince’s plans for an public stock offering of Aramco, the Saudi state oil company, in New York or London next year. It had been a centerpiece of his overhaul.
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Nov 27, 2017 16:51
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Cat Mattress posted:Which is why I hope that European policy will keep a certain openness and play the good cop to the US's bad cop. Lol, this guy is true mastermind. I don’t think this means “reform” vs hardliners in Iran is dead. It probably reflects a bipartisan foreign policy consensus. So the country will have internal movements on rights, the economy etc, but funding their MIC will be unquestioned.
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Nov 27, 2017 17:13
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