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Lightning Lord posted:I put all that work into my Laci Green analysis (I typed that poo poo on my phone!!!!!) and no one cares, which is a pretty good summary of the Green situation so I'm not mad at all drat i forgot she existed. she picked the worst time possible to do the redpill thing, like a month before charlottesville
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Nov 27, 2017 05:38
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https://twitter.com/ContraPoints/status/934984630230450176 Not sure if that was posted yet.
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Nov 27, 2017 08:59
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Doctor Spaceman posted:https://twitter.com/ContraPoints/status/934984630230450176 Man, if only there were ways to debate alt-right people without funding what borders on a hate-group.  EDIT: Haha, oh boy https://twitter.com/gogreen18/status/934995980646170624 MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Nov 27, 2017 |
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Nov 27, 2017 09:20
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MiddleOne posted:EDIT: Haha, oh boy 
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Nov 27, 2017 09:27
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MiddleOne posted:Man, if only there were ways to debate alt-right people without funding what borders on a hate-group. I am like 90% sure that that second point is a paraphrase of something Nixon said but I can't quite find the drat quote.
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Nov 27, 2017 09:29
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LunarShadow posted:I am like 90% sure that that second point is a paraphrase of something Nixon said but I can't quite find the drat quote. Silent majority?
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Nov 27, 2017 09:41
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That would be it
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Nov 27, 2017 09:48
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Jesse Singal swung by to tap at the wedge. https://twitter.com/jessesingal/status/934990920499507201
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Nov 27, 2017 12:39
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Laci green and Jesse Singal, two people who always support the best ideas.
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Nov 27, 2017 12:58
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Sad to see Contra throwing her fellow trans under the bus for a chance to "debate"
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Nov 27, 2017 13:17
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Ash Crimson posted:Sad to see Contra throwing her fellow trans under the bus for a chance to "debate" she is debating other trans women (don’t think there is much to be gained from talking to Blair tbh but still)
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Nov 27, 2017 13:19
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I remember some stream or video commentary where Contra said debating Blair was a huge mistake and a miserable experience. rip contrapoints
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Nov 27, 2017 13:20
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Visidan posted:from the group she's fundraising for I have no reason to doubt you, but what context for these images suggests they came from that group? Contrapoints should see them if they’re legit, but only if they’re legit.
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Nov 27, 2017 13:21
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business hammocks posted:I have no reason to doubt you, but what context for these images suggests they came from that group? Contrapoints should see them if they’re legit, but only if they’re legit. https://www.ubyssey.ca/culture/free-speech-club/
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Nov 27, 2017 13:24
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business hammocks posted:Are we sure it’s a fundraiser and not just a university event? Colleges charge for tickets to Richard Spencer, but he doesn’t get a cut. As I noted in the other thread, one thing to keep in mind is that this "UBC" Free Speech Club is not an authorized university club, it does not get its funding or do its fundraising through the student society (AMS), so this event is 100% money going to the "Make Canada Great Again" people (minus expenses etc).
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Nov 27, 2017 13:42
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Natural centrists gonna center.
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Nov 27, 2017 13:49
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With Contra she seems to genuinley believe in debate, her talk about her hatred of academia's navel gazing seemed more about it dealing with Hypothetical situations (like CHmess) while being kinda an internal circle jerk. The problem is TERFs and Nazi's have adapted and can weaponize even a supposed "Fair" debate, regardless of the fact this probably isn't playing to a neutral audience.
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Nov 27, 2017 13:54
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I feel like the next step for someone who doesn't like debating leftists because all they can do is tone police is to ask why it is that they can't offer anything better. Who goes "well I feel like my arguments are woefully underdeveloped so I'm going to go find someone who's got even worse arguments and argue with them instead."
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Nov 27, 2017 13:58
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I don't understand how she got conned into THIS though, if it was just "Do you wanna come and "debate" with chuds?" then sure whatever, it'd still probably be bad but this is "Wanna come sell tickets to people wanting to watch a ~degenerate~ get ganged up on and fundraise for a hate group?" and it's not like it's some information buried in the deepest recesses of the internet. This is giving actual, hard support to these fuckers now, people could try and argue around signal boosting and whatever, but this is literally lining their pockets.
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Nov 27, 2017 14:00
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I don't know if it's that she believes in "debate", the way she put it on the Micheal brooks show is that it's sometimes useful to show up on like a Sargon stream and just appear like a reasonable person who can smile and make jokes while pushing back against their bullshit with what amounts to common liberal/socialist soundbites, because it gives people a face that they can identify as a real person instead of the perpetually offended straw-men that the right wing always builds up. It's an argument that makes sense to me, I guess it gets sort of dubious when showing up to a white nationalist fundraiser though, like most people at white nationalist fundraisers are bad people raising money for bad things so if she's there it might make her a bad person too. Chasterson fucked around with this message at 14:08 on Nov 27, 2017 |
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Nov 27, 2017 14:05
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Yardbomb posted:I don't understand how she got conned into THIS though, if it was just "Do you wanna come and "debate" with chuds?" then sure whatever, it'd still probably be bad but this is "Wanna come sell tickets to people wanting to watch a ~degenerate~ get ganged up on and fundraise for a hate group?" and it's not like it's some information buried in the deepest recesses of the internet. This is giving actual, hard support to these fuckers now, people could try and argue around signal boosting and whatever, but this is literally lining their pockets. Internet grifters gonna grift.
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Nov 27, 2017 14:07
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Stormgale posted:With Contra she seems to genuinley believe in debate, her talk about her hatred of academia's navel gazing seemed more about it dealing with Hypothetical situations (like CHmess) while being kinda an internal circle jerk. I usually err on the side of more debate, but this isn't even billed as one. Again from the other page, quoting their own event description: "This event will not be a debate, but rather a conversation between these three ladies. The event will start with a few introductions and opening remarks from the speakers, and then move into a panel form. The later half of the event will be a Q&A." 
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Nov 27, 2017 14:11
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^^^ Thats fair, I just mean I feel Contra is being more Naieve than anything, at least from my reading in that she believes this will help (even If for the point I made I disagree)Chasterson posted:I don't know if it's that she believes in "debate", the way she put it on the Micheal brooks show is that it's sometimes useful to show up on like a Sargon stream and just appear like a reasonable person who can smile and make jokes while pushing back against their bullshit with what amounts to common liberal/socialist soundbites, because it gives people a face that they can identify as a real person instead of the perpetually offended straw-men that the right wing always builds up. The issue is that it's just as easy for those people to rationalise that face as "One of the good ones", like how trump voters didn't expect their neighbours to be deported.
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Nov 27, 2017 14:12
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Absurd Alhazred posted:As I noted in the other thread, one thing to keep in mind is that this "UBC" Free Speech Club is not an authorized university club, it does not get its funding or do its fundraising through the student society (AMS), so this event is 100% money going to the "Make Canada Great Again" people (minus expenses etc). This is very disappointing. Generating money for them with her own labor, even if by trying to make them intellectually responsible, can have extremely negative consequences. What does she think they’re going to do with that money?
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Nov 27, 2017 14:33
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I would guess, not being a leftist, she doesn't think about it.
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Nov 27, 2017 14:37
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Ash Crimson posted:Sad to see Contra throwing her fellow trans under the bus for a chance to "debate"
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Nov 27, 2017 15:03
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temple posted:This is an exaggeration. You are throwing her under the bus for talking to conservatives. just saying "no u" doesn't make a good argument. Do you fancy responding to the criticism that the debate seems to be fundraising for a lovely group of holocaust deniers, and that it is, in fact, always bad to fundraise for a group of people who engage in holocaust denial? or that this is not a very feminist, allied, or intersectionally ok thing to do? because your entire argument is that saying it is not ok to fundraise for right-wing holocaust deniers, and it is not a very good thing to do to for your fellow marginalised, is in fact the real problem here, and that is a pretty dumb thing to argue. temple posted:This is why people turn away from the left because people play purity politics over minor things. god forbid people have standards
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Nov 27, 2017 15:08
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temple posted:She is going to a trans event hosted by conservatives. So a zoo to gawk at the "degenerates" then. It's basically a group of /pol/ rejects running the thing, calling this "a trans event" whatsoever feels like you're being super dishonest. temple posted:This is why people turn away from the left because people play purity politics over minor things. If "Some peers were mean to me" was enough to make you jump ship to the kind of people opposite these days, you never had that much conviction in your ideals anyway. Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Nov 27, 2017 |
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Nov 27, 2017 15:11
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She not fundraising for them. She going to their event to debate or discuss whatever. I don't know but she isn't going to be sympathetic towards them. You may choose to cut all interaction with the alt-right and I respect that. But she isn't an enemy of yours or ally of them because she shows up. I would draw the line at her making money and doing this regularly. But going to an event here and there isn't throwing trans people under the bus. It isn't even remarkable consider everything else she does.
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Nov 27, 2017 15:25
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I'm pretty sure that really loving lovely organizations doing fundraisers is more or less the platonic ideal of what no platforming is for. Or uh, the reverse of no plaforming, not-being-on-platforming.
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Nov 27, 2017 15:28
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I dunno, I really like Contra's videos, so I want to be more generous with my interpretations, but this is a really bad look. It's the fundraising angle that really makes it beyond the pale, imo. Maybe she really needed the money? OwlFancier posted:I would guess, not being a leftist, she doesn't think about it. That's not fair. She's clearly a leftist, but her praxis is left severely wanting.
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Nov 27, 2017 15:29
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Falstaff posted:That's not fair. She's clearly a leftist, but her praxis is left severely wanting. It's not really clear to me, I stopped watching her videos when she started just doing protracted performance pieces in costume about political caricatures without really saying anything. Before that I would classify her as firmly middle of the road liberal.
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Nov 27, 2017 15:31
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temple posted:She not fundraising for them. She going to their event to debate or discuss whatever. I don't know but she isn't going to be sympathetic towards them. You may choose to cut all interaction with the alt-right and I respect that. But she isn't an enemy of yours or ally of them because she shows up. They’re selling tickets and pocketing the cash. Do you not believe appearing at the event helps them make money? She’s the show they’re earning money to put on.
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Nov 27, 2017 15:40
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temple posted:She not fundraising for them. I mean https://twitter.com/ContraPoints/status/934927207394435072 "Tickets available here (for the event hosted by holocaust deniers)" is pretty bad on that point.
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Nov 27, 2017 15:42
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business hammocks posted:Do you not believe appearing at the event helps them make money? temple fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Nov 27, 2017 |
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Nov 27, 2017 15:45
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Therefore none of the people involved are fundraising because the event would happen without any individual member involvement. If you dilute responsibility enough it goes away!
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Nov 27, 2017 15:46
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temple posted:Yes it helps them, however, I think the event would happen with or without her. But if you choose to become part of the show, aren’t you choosing to use your labor to help them make money? So if Contrapoints wasn’t involved she wouldn’t be helping them to make money?
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Nov 27, 2017 15:52
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MiddleOne posted:Man, if only there were ways to debate alt-right people without funding what borders on a hate-group. lacie green is suuuuuuuuuuuch a loving idiot "gee wilikers u guys! the internet sure is crazy!" gotta love her performative naivete
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Nov 27, 2017 15:54
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business hammocks posted:But if you choose to become part of the show, aren’t you choosing to use your labor to help them make money? So if Contrapoints wasn’t involved she wouldn’t be helping them to make money?
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Nov 27, 2017 16:06
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I'm not sure where precisely you draw the line but I can tell you it definitely isn't anywhere near "promoting and performing at their fundraisers"
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Nov 27, 2017 16:08
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