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 BGM: Wingless I walked over to the door that represented the answer I had chosen. Then, I put the golden key into the keyhole, and turned to face everyone.   "...That's right. Sorry."I gripped the key tightly and twisted. Then, the key and the door flashed brilliantly... and slowly faded away. Beyond the door... was a strangely colored space. If I step into this, I'll reach the future I chose. Before taking that single step, I spoke without turning back.  "The Ushiromiya eagle never turns back. So I won't turn around, but I'll say this! Thank you, everyone. But this isn't goodbye! I'll always be with you all!!" "Yeah. You won't turn back. But we'll always be standing behind you." "...That's not it!! Despite it all, I still believe. I'm positive... that everyone will come back!!" "...Ange..." "That is good. Ange. I look forward to the day when we all meet again." "Ange, my adorable granddaughter. We may be away for some time. Here, don't forget this. It's your prize from that quiz party."  "...This was lying next to me when I woke up on the sofa, wasn't it? This was... my prize." "Take it back to the future with you, and treasure it." "Thanks, everyone."I... took a step forward. Forward... into the future.  BGM: None  I might have had my eyes closed for a very long time. Even the sparkles below me... seemed blindingly bright.  The wind was cold. However, it told me that I had returned to reality. I was standing with one foot outstretched... over the sea of light below me. How long have I been here? Since the moment I was lured by Bernkastel, just about to take a step off the edge, time has probably been stopped for me.  "..."I slowly... pulled my foot back in. Then, I leaned against the fence and sat down. The sky... was far away. But so was the ground. This whole time, I've been in this sad place, so far from both of those worlds. I can't... go to the sky. In that case, I have to return to my world. "And the elevator is probably the way to go. I've had enough skydiving. Yeah, there really is no chance. No chance of me jumping down from here and surviving by some miracle."Some Witch of Miracles has already guaranteed with certainty that such a miracle couldn't happen, after all. Then, I finally noticed them. The guards that President Okonogi had assigned to me. They were approaching the fence with forced smiles and sweat dripping down their faces, trying not to startle me. That's right. I got away from these guys before jumping off, didn't I?  BGM: Haze  "W, well, as far as that... goes..." "...Sorry. If I jumped, I guess you'd really catch it from Okonogi-san." "Ange-san... it's dangerous there. For now, please come back to this side..." "Let me stay here a bit longer. It's okay. I won't get any sudden ideas. Does one of you have a cell phone?" "Y, yes..." "I want to talk to Okonogi-san about something. Would you mind calling him?"The guards looked at each other, then rushed to take out their cell phones. They were worried that I might get annoyed and jump off, leaving them to take the blame. "Th, the president has picked up... Here..." "Thanks. Hello, Okonogi-san? Yeah. Sorry for calling all of a sudden. No, it's excellent news. A bit of an early Christmas present. I'm giving all of the Ushiromiya group to you. That's right. In exchange, I have a few things I want."As she gazed down at the sea of stars spread out on the ground below her, Ange spoke. She spoke of how she would live from now on. Ushiromiya Ange's strange and mysterious adventure... ends here. But my life will continue. After all, there's already something for me to do. I am ANGE Beatrice, witch of Mariage Sorciere.   BGM: None As Ange opened the door and vanished from sight, the residents of the Golden Land disappeared as well. Afterwards, only Battler could still be seen. He had now finished doing everything he could for Ange...  "...Close the door. I believe there was some rule about closing this door?" "Yes, that's right. The rule said that you needed two people to close it." "Hey, Aunt Eva." "I told you to stop talking to me like I'm an old lady!"The two of them stood to the left and right of the door that Ange had vanished through.  "Ange. Let there be happiness in your future." "After all, we'll always be with you."Then, the two of them held their hands out in front of them. As they did, a door popped into existence and closed. Then, the door itself faded away...  "...And now, we have completed our role." "Yeah. This marks the end of the pieces' purpose." "You have worked hard, both of you. And with this, we shall clean up your game board." BGM: The End of the World At a glance, it looked as though the City of Books was starting to fall apart. But that wasn't it. Battler and EVA's world... was being cut off from the City of Books. The world broke apart bit by bit, and the ceiling would probably fall in soon.  "This is goodbye, Battler-kun." "Yeah. See you later. And, someday, I'll leave Ange in your hands, Aunt Eva." "At least at the end, try calling me EVA nee-san, will you?" "..." "See you later, Erika. Somewhere, someday." "...Both Ange and I were Witches of Truth. So... just what was the difference between the two of us?" "...Yes, what could it be?" "I was... a witch who suffered through the truth. However, I turned my back from that truth. She, on the other hand, was a witch who continued to believe in her truth, even after learning the truth. If she was the real Witch of Truth, then what kind of witch was I?" "That's right. You... aren't a witch." "..."  "...<Good>. I'd forgotten." "We'll meet again, someday. Wherever there's a crime, the detective's sure to be there, right?" "Yes. When another crime occurs in the Ushiromiya family, I promise to appear." "So long, great detective." "So long, my rival. I look forward to the day when the two of us can cross blades again."Those... were the final words the two ever spoke to each other.  A terrible roar and a cloud of dust blew by, covering everything. And then, everything vanished. Nothing remained. Battler and EVA were both gone. The City of Books was wrapped in silence.  "Yes, Great Lady Aurora." "...You will take care of my pet cat. Now, I shall go too. There are some things that must be cleaned up in this world as well." Before too long though, the crowd exploded with a shower of questions about what she meant by this. "Th, that's... too cruel...!!" "You can't do this after dragging us along this far!!" "Madam Hachijo, we have come from far and wide to see it, correct?! How can you... do this now?!!" "A, a fraud, this is all a fraud...!!" "Was it really Ushiromiya Eva's diary? Are you sure it wasn't a fabrication you created?!" "You think you can get away with something like this?!! Show us the book!!!" "Children of men can be so hideous. Neither you nor I have the right to read what lies in there. However, now that I think of it, this has been quite an entertaining show. Children of men who disturb the sleep of the dead and spread rumors for their own entertainment can be quite amusing, at times like this. Let us go, Bern. I have had my share of entertainment for the night..."A black cat jumped onto Hachijo's shoulder, and she disappeared off to the side of the stage, the Book of the Single Truth in her arms. Only the angry yells of the massive crowd remained... And so, the people began to lose interest in Ushiromiya Eva's diary, even doubting whether it was the real thing. Though the weekly magazines were in an uproar over Hachijo Toya's apparently fraudulent claims, there were some who began to say that the Rokkenjima mystery itself was an indiscreet desecration of the dead. It wasn't likely that Rokkenjima could rest in peace just because of something like this. However, people were slightly more hesitant to show open interest in the Rokkenjima mystery in public.  Rokkenjima will probably never find peace. However, even so, compared to how it was before, life will surely be easier. Because, as the years pass, the dust will slowly pile up on it where it lies in the depths of oblivion. At the bottom of the deep sea known as the depths of oblivion, the cat box of the witches will probably get slowly buried as the years pass.  With the tale of that golden rose, let us mark the end of this long story. In the darkness, there was a massive roar and an earthquake. When it passed, dawn began to rise over the endless night...   Video: Farewell BGM: Loreley  "We're in the wreckage of an old submarine base. Do you remember...?" "It's where it all started." "*cackle*cackle* The place where we first met, two generations ago." "Hahaha. Sounds pretty romantic if you put it that way."Battler and Beato... could be seen in the ruins of Rokkenjima's underground submarine base. The cave's mouth opened to the sea, and the gentle sound of the waves drifted in along with the cries of the seagulls. It seemed that the typhoon, which had closed off the island for two days, had finally gotten bored and gone away.  Of course, it wasn't from the time of the war. It was modern. "Pile this up on the boat. It's heavy." "Whoa. This is a gold ingot. I thought they all got buried." "I thought something like this might happen, so I snuck this one out beforehand."The single heavy gold ingot was dropped into the boat. I'm not sure how much this is worth by itself, but it must be quite a lot.  "Have you ever driven a motorboat before?" "You're joking, right?" "It's easy. I'll teach you."She wasn't used to this, but after several mistakes, Beato finally got the engine started.  "If you go out that way and hop from island to island, you'll see Niijima before too long. Then, you can just land on a sandy beach." "...Aren't you coming?" "I cannot. I am the master of the Golden Land. I cannot leave this place." "What's to be gained from staying?" "What's to be gained from going?" "Let's live." "...I cannot. I have already committed countless sins in countless worlds. The number of lives I have taken, sins I have committed... is too great." "But you haven't committed any sins in our world." "No, that is not true." "..." "Go. Go while I'm still in a good mood. Otherwise, I may seal the island in a storm again."Battler suddenly spun around. When Beato turned around to see what was going on, her body was suddenly lifted into the air.  BGM: Thanks for all people  "L, let go...! Th, this isn't safe...!!" "Enough screaming. Listen carefully, Beatrice." "Wh, what...?" "I'm going to kidnap you." "...Ba..."As Battler quietly gazed at her with serious eyes, Beato was lost for words.  "If you have sinned, then it's my sin as well for making you do it. So, let's carry your cross together." "...Battler..." "As long as I live, I'll carry your cross. Let's leave the Golden Land. You and me, together."Beato was now too shocked to say anything at all. Then, tears poured from her eyes, and she covered her face. Battler gently set her down on the boat. He undid the mooring ropes. Now there was no longer anything tying this boat to the island. "Let's go."Controlling the boat as Beato had taught him, Battler slowly guided it out...  As the seagulls flew this way and that, the feathers they dropped in the water seemed to celebrate the boat's departure. The brilliant sunlight told them that they were now free of the island's curse. ...The sky, now freed from the seal of the typhoon, seemed too bright to be real. Feeling hot, Battler took off his jacket. It was swept away by the wind and danced through the sky. However, instead of panicking, Battler just smiled as he watched it go. Beato also watched it go... No, she watched the island go. Rokkenjima, and the Golden Land she had spent a thousand years in.   "You will. You won't have a magical butler, but there's lots of conveniences out there in the world. There are all kinds of things you can't find on Rokkenjima. I'll... show you this world of ours." "...Will I... be able to live...?"Beato repeated the same words again. Battler knew what she meant. However, no matter what answer he gave, he wouldn't be able to resolve her problem now. However, there was a way to resolve it. Time... and heart. Little by little, bit by bit. Like a chain being cut by falling drops of water, he would have to sever the curse of the island gradually, over a long period of time. It might take a long, long time. However, someday, she will be free. That's what I believe.  "I am the sinful witch, who toyed with hundreds of deaths on that island. Your world... is too brilliant for me." "No, you have to live."I answered immediately and forcefully.  "...Is that... truly the only way to atone for my sins?" "That's right. And you'll definitely be able to do it someday. Trust me." "...Battler...""Come on, don't look at me with teary eyes. It's embarrassing..."  "*cackle*cackle*... Forgive me. Then, at the very least, would you close your eyes?" "Wh, why should I... Hey, your face is pretty close..." "Foolish man... You ought to be cursed for taking the witch away from the Golden Land. That's why you must close your eyes." "...I... it's... embarrassing for me too." Then, they slowly drew back. He tried to open his eyes, but just got punched.  "Don't look, I told you not to look at my face!!" "C, come on, what's there to lose...?!" "You have no delicacy! Don't open them, not yet!! Why? B, because I want to kiss you again...!!"The next kiss... was on his earlobe.  "H, hey, quit it...! Now this is getting really embarrassing...!"He knew he'd get hit again if he opened his eyes, so he resisted with his eyes still shut. Then, after sighing and tickling his ear, Beato spoke in her usual cheerful, bullying voice.  "Yeah, I know. You're an evil, cruel witch." "And so, I cannot atone for my sins. I'm the sort of witch who can cackle over hundreds of deaths...!" "Ah, come on... But it's just like you to say that." BGM: None The Golden Witch had vanished... like a dream or an illusion. And... so had the single ingot they had carried with them.  BGM: Cocoon of White Dreams - Ricordando il passato                                  Men wearing suits were packing a heavy-looking attache case into its trunk.  "Let me handle all the rest. We'll take care all of the troublesome work." "I'm counting on you. I'm sure Aunt Eva would be glad to entrust it to you, the person she trusted most." BGM: Song without a name (Instrumental) Ange's expression... was peaceful. It was hard to imagine that this was the same person who had always looked so dark to Okonogi. "...In her later years, the company president was very ill. She might have said some fairly harsh things to you, but I don't believe that was how she truly felt." "I know. Even I said things I shouldn't have on my bad days." "...You've changed." "You think so?" "...I thought you would never forgive the president as long as you lived." "You're the one who taught me, Okonogi-san." "I did? Did I say something?" "Did I say something that pretentious? Hehhahahahahahahaha." "It's been a long journey. It really has been a long journey, all just to understand what you told me that day."Of course, Okonogi understood. He understood that, in her heart, this had been a long journey. "Contact me when you decide on a new home and account. I won't let you want for anything." "Any problems with the Sumadera family?" "Leave that to me. We have your power of attorney as our rallying point. Thanks to that, the Ushiromiya group has a united front. Because of what you did, Ange-chan, the business built by the former president has been protected. I truly believe she would be joyful at your decision." "I'm just making you deal with all the hard stuff." Since there was no clear successor, the group had been in danger of splitting. Amidst this, Ange, who had inherited a large portion of the group's stock, was closely watched to see how she would act. However, since Ange had shown no interest in any of this, and had gone around talking about things like selling all their assets and donating everything to some charity, the group had grown very shaky indeed. There was even a chance that an outsider, such as the Sumadera family, would step in and destroy the Ushiromiya group. As disturbing as it may seem, it's a fact that some even wished for the center of all this trouble, Ange, to disappear... ...However, because Ange had a change of heart and decided to help do what was best for the Ushiromiya group that Eva had brought together, the worst-case scenario had been avoided. Okonogi had been named as Ange's successor. Now that he had Ange's trust, there was no more reliable ally to be had. Okonogi himself had certain plans he could carry out based on the knowledge that Ange trusted him. Okonogi, who had carried great responsibility in the Ushiromiya group thanks to his position as Eva's closest confidant, was the most natural choice to be Eva's successor, and thanks in part to his ability, everything had now been wrapped up smoothly. This way, the Ushiromiya group was secure. By now, the Ushiromiya group was the only thing other than Ange herself to hold the Ushiromiya name, so she might have thought of it as her last tie to her family.  "Thanks. Just knowing I have a place to go back to, I can set off on my journey in peace." "What are you going to do from now on?" "I'm going to become an author." "An author? To write novels?" "It doesn't matter what. It could be novels or picture books. If I have any skill at drawing, maybe I'll do a manga. What I do doesn't matter. As long as I can share my heart with someone." "...Sounds like you've set a noble task for yourself. I'll be praying for your success." "Thanks. If I manage to publish a book, I'll send you a copy." "I look forward to it."The car's trunk was closed with a clunk. Apparently, all of her luggage had been loaded. "Ah, yes, allow me to introduce you to the driver. He's a protege of mine. He is trustworthy, and you can rely on him for anything. Oh, and he worked as a guard for the old president for many years, so you might recognize him." "...As long as it isn't Amakusa."Achoo! The man walking out of the driver's seat sneezed.  "Hey, Amakusa, just what have you done to her?" "...Well, he was always the most flippant of Aunt Eva's guards. I was hoping for pretty much anyone else." "But he was also the one closest to you, wasn't he?" "...At least listening to him talk can be pretty entertaining." "The boss assigned me to be his contact with you. If you ever get into any sort of trouble, just let me know." "And what if I ask you to go buy me toilet paper?" "Then I'll buy you some feminine hygiene products to go with it." "...See? The guy's a creep."Okonogi guffawed. I got into the back seat.  "I guess this is the last time anyone will call me by that name." "Let me know when you've decided on a new one."Okonogi patted the roof of the car. At that signal, Amakusa honked the horn and removed the hand brake... "So, until you've decided on a new name, I guess I'll be calling you Lady." "That's fine for now." "...Okay. Where are we going? North? South?" "...Any recommendations?" "Why don't we try leaving the main island? I'd suggest Hokkaido. Huge meadows, giant clouds! A novelist writing stories in a log cabin... Sounds awesome." "Great, let's head south. I was planning to do the opposite of whatever you said anyway." "Heheh, that's pretty harsh." "I'd like to go someplace hot. A town with a view of the sea."Ange closed her eyes. Things had been pretty crazy lately, and she was tired...  "Understood. By the time you open your eyes, we'll be in an unfamiliar land. But it'll be a warm town with a view of the sea." "Can't wait to see... what you choose."The car got onto the freeway. It was surrounded by the great river of cars heading east and west. By now, no one could tell which point was the car she rode in.  Changing her name didn't mean that she had given up on being Ange. This was Ange's... No, ANGE Beatrice's mission.   
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Nov 27, 2017 12:25
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Comfy End.
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Nov 27, 2017 14:40
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And then Ange dyes her hair purple, lives in seclusion, and becomes the ultimate crazy cat lady, except with a single cat that she made by fusing the same cat's different timeline selves.
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Nov 27, 2017 15:38
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And for those of you who would like to hear that song in full and see the lyrics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFyzTtKNzYI
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Nov 27, 2017 15:58
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So Battler did make it off the island after all. And we still have two scenes to go. I hadn't expected this ending to take over from before she jumped, and I certainly hadn't expected the magic ending to resolve in such a mundane way. How interesting.
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Nov 27, 2017 16:33
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For the record - the Tea Party and ???? to follow only unlock after the Magic Ending.
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Nov 27, 2017 16:34
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Beato you great big idiot. I understand why you did it, but you really could have had your happily ever after with Battler. 
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Nov 27, 2017 16:57
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Well, they still can in the catbox. Just, sadly not in the real world. Oh Beato, at least you got one last evil grin in before the end.
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Nov 27, 2017 17:03
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Feels weird that I like Amakusa and the president when they are bad people. Amakusa does have incredible good taste in music though.
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Nov 27, 2017 17:54
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So Battler survives, but drowns with Beato for love. Sounds like him.
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Nov 27, 2017 17:59
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Beato is dead. There's no way she could have had a happy ending with Battler. (But I'm just a fish hag, not the Witch of Miracles, nor the Witch of Resurrection.)
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Nov 27, 2017 18:02
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Now, that's more like it (from a storytelling/character growth perspective, anyway). While I am a little leery of taking back all of Ange's journey from the rooftop with an "It was all a dream/vision" hand wave (there has to be a way to elegantly integrate Ange's epiphany in her journey for the truth, without discounting her Mafia evading adventures with Amakusa), I do have to admit that the way that thread was going... it would have to take a lot more artifice and contrivance to pull off a happy ending that is also thematically appropriate and satisfactory to the audience, so I suppose this ending is just showing an economy of writers tricks. And anyhow, the most important thing here is sticking the thematic landing of the piece, and that, I believe, was done: The sad and lonely six-year-old is finally able to put the past behind her and seek the future without the sins of the past manipulating her. Regardless of what she does, I'm glad she's leaving behind the fortune- it's brought her no happiness, so why not leave it with someone who wants it, like Okonogi? (Even if he is someone who would plan to have a child murdered if they don't play ball. Potentially... Eh, screw him anyway, he's out of the picture.) And I suppose we never did find out if Amakusa would actually have shot Ange or not- another unopened catbox, an unanswered mystery. Or maybe it was always my illusion that he might have helped Ange in the end... but hey, I don't know that that feeling is false, either, and I can live with that. And that's the point, isn't it- to seek the truth is all well and good, but if it is to the detriment of the happiness of a lot of people, or your own health or sanity, and moreover is not related to a greater problem of math or science or a greater health crisis... than why pursue it? Remembering a not-so-happy family did have its happy moments now and then (even if the way those happy moments happened isn't strictly "true") is not some great breach of trust or security, as when Reagan pretending the AIDS crisis wasn't a thing and actively sabotaging all efforts to label it as such, and it is ridiculous to pretend the two are equal. In other words, red and blue are fine in matters of life or death, but otherwise... why not use purple? And then we come to this other part. ProfessorProf posted:
This part her, real or true, of Battler and Beatrice leaving the island... I don't think I'm a fan. One problem is the remove: As before, you can't really tell which version of events this is from, because in every case, these two both seem really... removed from the events that preceded them. I mean, can you tell they had just been the witnesses- and potential perpetrators- of several murders and are escaping an island in the process of blowing the gently caress up? I sure can't! (especially Battler, because even if EP8 were true and he is a cold-blooded killer, since when has our Battler been this cool under pressure ever?) And this whole thing about Beatrice "not committing any sins in this world- I mean, what? Because even if the EP7 version of events is true and Beato committed no murders directly... conspiracy to murder is a crime. Failure to secure weapons is a crime, and just leaving them out for a ton of desperate, scared, angry people to use on each other could be seen as incitement. And there is a whole body of lovingly crafted work of the terrible agonies Sayo wanted to inflict on a lot of people that speaks to deep seated mental issues that "the power of lurrve" cannot hope to fix alone. You can't just atone for all those things by "living honestly", or whatever Battler thinks he's saying here. This all leaves a sour taste. And it's a shame, because the rest of that was beautiful and terribly sad, and might be my favorite moment of the story ever, without those issues weighing it down. It is the culmination of Beato/Sayo's entire story: they live a life of loneliness, discover a horrible truth which breaks them, and commit a terrible crime out of the anger and desperation borne of lacking a place in the world, of having to keep terrible secrets, and being denied the surcease of a loving relationship, because the only people they know are their relatives... twice over. But then, inexplicably... everything Sayo wants and has ever wanted is suddenly dropped in their lap, after having given up everything: the one they came to love first is right there, knows them, and offers to take them away from their place of suffering. It is paralleled in the meeting of Kinzo and Bice, right down to the "kidnapping" thing; you have Battler standing there, as full of kindness and forgiveness as Kinzo is full of wretchedness and spite, offering Sayo not only freedom from the place that tormented them, but a partnership- to embrace them, to love them, as they always dreamed they would. And all Beato has to do is reach out and take it. But they won't. They can't. Not after what they've done, what they've sacrificed... how they've hurt other people, how they've hurt Battler. Because just like Bice and Kinzo all those many years ago, this is not a fairy tale; you don't just magically become happy after your wish comes true... and even if the world forgets your crimes, you can't, as Kinzo came to learn in his later years, as the weight of his sin dragged him down to madness. To cause the deaths of fourteen people, inadvertently or not- that is a crime, and even if there is no action taken, the guilt follows you. And this is a crime against family, the betrayal of oaths... in ancient Greece, that means the Erinyes come after you, with their bloodied, brass timed scourges... that means the guilt will follow you until you die, and poison everything you touch. It would mean the trading of one cycle of misery for another. So Sayo... won't do that. The cycle of weakness begun by Kinzo cannot continue now; somebody has to pay for what they've done. And so Sayo chooses death first, to spare more suffering to themselves, to Battler... to the world that might have been a beautiful one if they'd had more faith and courage to leave the island. It seems I was right to invoke the Tragedy of the Greeks in the last thread. For this is Greek tragedy... and it is sublime.
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Nov 27, 2017 18:05
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I understood why Beato ate it. But at the same time, I'm complaining about Battler doing Battler things, so yeah, that's me. I'm happy that Ange seems to have found at least 1 good ending. "Seems" because I'm pretty sure that Okonogi and Amasuka may still have a plan where Ange gets shot in the loving face. But at least, now, it's less likely.
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Nov 27, 2017 18:09
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Why would they? Ange literally went whatever and decide to become a neet.
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Nov 27, 2017 18:22
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Tired Moritz posted:Why would they? Ange literally went whatever and decide to become a neet. She still has some shares. And she is part of a rival business's clan. Ange can hope for the future, but she should still be careful of people who have literally plotted her death in a slightly alternate timeline. And I'm not saying do what Erika does. Do not jump to conclusions. Just... it's so surreal, you know? These men offed her in one timeline, but honestly protect her in the next? It's a bit too hard to wrap my head around.
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Nov 27, 2017 21:00
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bman in 2288 posted:These men offed her in one timeline, but honestly protect her in the next? It's a bit too hard to wrap my head around. Things change.
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Nov 27, 2017 21:35
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bman in 2288 posted:And I'm not saying do what Erika does. Do not jump to conclusions. Just... it's so surreal, you know? These men offed her in one timeline, but honestly protect her in the next? It's a bit too hard to wrap my head around. Same.  I kind of reminds me growing up with abusive family. Other people placing such kind words and respect to family members when you know the truth that they've done terrible things to you behind closed doors just feels hella weird. And yet there are situations where you're going to have to rely on them like all that bad stuff is in the past. It's something that requires breaking your mind a bit. Urgh, both IRL and for these videogame characters, it doesn't make me feel like they're off the hook, but ah well. I kinda get the feeling that the meeting between Beatrice and Battler that we just saw isn't completely the truth. I do want to say that they did survive the bomb, but the conversation that they have is way too smooth for something following the death of everyone's families and a murder fest. There's gotta be something more to it, and hope that the next updates might give a better clue as to what it is.
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Nov 27, 2017 21:37
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EagerSleeper posted:I kinda get the feeling that the meeting between Beatrice and Battler that we just saw isn't completely the truth. I do want to say that they did survive the bomb, but the conversation that they have is way too smooth for something following the death of everyone's families and a murder fest. There's gotta be something more to it, and hope that the next updates might give a better clue as to what it is. I get what you mean. They also talk about all the killing they did, and the conversation they have doesn't make sense unless they're aware that this entire game happened. Same thing with Ange, too. Goddamn, this hurts my head.
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Nov 27, 2017 21:44
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I feel that scene had been a romanticised telling, the kind we have already seen so many times before. The final farewell between Battler and Beato, he finally realised her true nature and wishes he could take her away from the Golden Land, yet she couldn't leave the island, both because of how she felt about what she had done as well as the fact that they died in the actual incident, leaving only Battler alive (well, and Eva). A sad but beatiful scene to see the Golden Witch off back into her catbox where she shall weave endless tales with those who died (and were presumed to have died). Who knows how things truly went down as Battler escaped from Rokkenjima, but this telling allows him to give his final farewell. Or maybe this stuff did literally happen just like that, in which case let's hope whoever is out looking for more bottle messages won't mind finding a gold ingot together with something more gruesome/macabre.
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Nov 27, 2017 21:53
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resurgam40 posted:This part her, real or true, of Battler and Beatrice leaving the island... I don't think I'm a fan. I think, if it's based off any game board, it'd have to be EP7/The Single Truth, where Battler may not even know what's going on. Last we saw of him he was wandering towards the chapel unaware of any murders, so it's possible Beato grabbed him and dragged him into the tunnels before he saw anything horrifying, and then the explosion started. At the same time, magic is real, and this scene takes place after everything we've seen until now. So the people talking are are the Endless Witch and Golden Sorcerer, but they're inhabiting a scene that really occurred in the real world, at least with Battler. It's magic that matches the result, essentially: the scene is real insofar as it isn't witnessed by anyone who can say otherwise, and the end result is the same as the mundane explanation. Which is part of why Beato can't actually leave, even if Sayo really was on that boat. Setting aside whether their crimes can be forgiven, Beato is still an illusion, and illusion that can be maintained in the closed space of the island for a day or two, but not one that can be maintained in the outside world. They can't have a happily ever after with Battler as Beato because even if Battler acknowledges they are a witch, the rest of the world won't. That anti-magic toxin is not something Beato can withstand. So that's why Beato has to stay behind in the depths of oblivion where she can't be denied. As for Battler, the way I see it there are essentially two Battlers. There is the flesh and blood human Ushiromiya Battler, and then there's Fantasy Battler who is basically Prince Charming. So when we see Battler swim back up after failing to rescue Beato, that's the real Battler who is due to pass out on a highway with amnesia. But the Battler who is basically a fantasy creature like Ronove is free to sink into oblivion with his magical wife. So probably the basic action of that scene is real, but not the specifics. So the real world non-magical version would be Beato gives Battler a boat, Battler says 'nope, you're coming too', once on the water Beato goes 'naw, gonna drown', Battler tries and fails to rescue Beato.
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Nov 27, 2017 22:05
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ZiegeDame's explanation seems to hit all the checkboxes for me. Also, just wanted to say in advance there's a great sense of timing going on here.
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Nov 27, 2017 22:58
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3B0iJQcXmkquote:Now, Suzanne takes your hand and she leads you to the river witchcore ricepunk fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Nov 27, 2017 |
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Nov 27, 2017 23:32
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ZiegeDame posted:So probably the basic action of that scene is real, but not the specifics. So the real world non-magical version would be Beato gives Battler a boat, Battler says 'nope, you're coming too', once on the water Beato goes 'naw, gonna drown', Battler tries and fails to rescue Beato. With how fundamentally broken Sayo is, and the fact they're aware of what just happened even if Battler isn't, I can't honestly blame them if they felt they couldn't go any further. Even if Battler magically turned into everything they'd hoped and prayed for - like he sort of did, in the scene we saw - what's done is still incredibly done. There's blood on their hands, blood they put there in a desperate plea for recognition. Not saying I approve of it, but I can see the logic behind it. That said, unless we're given proof otherwise, this scene (like all other scenes) is locked within the catbox. No survivors witnessed it.
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Nov 27, 2017 23:59
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The touch with them* taking an ingot of gold so they could weigh themself down as they drowns is a pretty good touch. I mean, that's all the Ushiromiyo gold ever was to them, it feels like. A method to commit suicide with. Once they can no longer do that metaphorically, they do it literally. * Singular, talking about Sayo and not Sayo+Battler EDIT: Like that's the implication of the gold vanishing as Beatrice does, right? They distracted Battler so he'd look away and they could jump for it, he dives after them, they try to push him away so he lives, they separate, they come back together and drown. You could probably also interpret Battler coming back as a dying hallucination, since Sayo is weighed down with the gold and Battler isn't, Battler is more bouyant than Sayo and would need to actively swim down to catch up with Sayo especially if they're trying to fight him. Not that I'm suggesting that he didn't drown, but rather the stuff about them* dying in an embrace seems off to me, whereas them jumping, Battler trying to save them, being pushed away, and then drowning doesn't. * Plural Sayo probably didn't even need the brick to drown with that dress they're wearing, but they wanted to be really really sure, I guess? PetraCore fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Nov 28, 2017 |
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Nov 28, 2017 00:34
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PetraCore posted:Sayo probably didn't even need the brick to drown with that dress they're wearing, but they wanted to be really really sure, I guess? Sayo never really had a light touch when it came to visual metaphors.
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Nov 28, 2017 00:40
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witchcore ricepunk posted:Sayo never really had a light touch when it came to visual metaphors.
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Nov 28, 2017 00:46
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This scene is also slightly different in the manga and explicitly connects it to the EP7 Tea Party. Basically Sayo, having been missed by Kyrie, decides that their plan has fallen apart and might as well go see if there are any survivors. Meanwhile Battler is going through the bodies in the main mansion when Sayo comes across him. Battler identifies Sayo as being Shannon. Sayo doesn't go into the Shannon/Kanon stuff, but confesses to having set up a murder plot that went wrong and that the island is rigged to blow. Battler doesn't ever see the identity of the culprit(s). Sayo persuades Battler to escape rather than confront the culprit, with both assuming that everyone on the island has already been killed. Then the rest is pretty much as-is.
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Nov 28, 2017 01:06
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Myriad Truths posted:This scene is also slightly different in the manga and explicitly connects it to the EP7 Tea Party. Basically Sayo, having been missed by Kyrie, decides that their plan has fallen apart and might as well go see if there are any survivors. Meanwhile Battler is going through the bodies in the main mansion when Sayo comes across him. Battler identifies Sayo as being Shannon. Sayo doesn't go into the Shannon/Kanon stuff, but confesses to having set up a murder plot that went wrong and that the island is rigged to blow. Battler doesn't ever see the identity of the culprit(s). Sayo persuades Battler to escape rather than confront the culprit, with both assuming that everyone on the island has already been killed. Then the rest is pretty much as-is. So what you're saying is that Kyrie is really bad at aiming.
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Nov 28, 2017 01:22
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I wonder about that part, actually. I'd think Kyrie would have known if she got the gun without any bullets in it, but the fact that she misses Sayo and then misses Eva twice seems to indicate there was something wrong with the gun.
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Nov 28, 2017 01:35
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Kyrie shoots with one are to look cool and as a result misses constantly, or at least never lands a fatal shot.
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Nov 28, 2017 02:10
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Coulda pulled the same trick Shannon did in the love duel. Or maybe there was something wrong with Kyrie's gun, which is why she bludgeoned Jessica to death instead of shooting her.
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Nov 28, 2017 02:24
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ZiegeDame posted:Coulda pulled the same trick Shannon did in the love duel. Or maybe there was something wrong with Kyrie's gun, which is why she bludgeoned Jessica to death instead of shooting her.
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Nov 28, 2017 02:38
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Remember, there's one broken (Win)Chiester.
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Nov 28, 2017 02:56
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Kyrie did manage to kill the other servants and Maria, however. Odds are good that she didn't use the knife for all of it.
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Nov 28, 2017 03:39
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PetraCore posted:EDIT: Like that's the implication of the gold vanishing as Beatrice does, right? They distracted Battler so he'd look away and they could jump for it, he dives after them, they try to push him away so he lives, they separate, they come back together and drown. You could probably also interpret Battler coming back as a dying hallucination, since Sayo is weighed down with the gold and Battler isn't, Battler is more bouyant than Sayo and would need to actively swim down to catch up with Sayo especially if they're trying to fight him. Not that I'm suggesting that he didn't drown, but rather the stuff about them* dying in an embrace seems off to me, whereas them jumping, Battler trying to save them, being pushed away, and then drowning doesn't. Yeah, this is how I interpreted it. Except I don't think Battler drowned here. The narration specifically says that Battler reappearing was impossible, since he already had floated away, so it's most likely that it really was impossible and didn't actually happen. That part was just Sayo's fantasy as she drowned. Cyouni posted:So what you're saying is that Kyrie is really bad at aiming. You know, we don't really know that Kyrie had ever killed anyone before that day, despite her tough talk.
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Nov 28, 2017 04:28
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The manga gives some answers to that Battler scene and the lead up to it. Kyrie had blanks in her gun Along with what appears to be the entire premise of what is going on with the Meta world. http://mangakakalot.com/chapter/umineko_no_naku_koro_ni_chiru_episode_8_twilight_of_the_golden_witch/chapter_37 MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Nov 28, 2017 |
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Nov 28, 2017 04:45
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She still killed Rosa and Hideyoshi, didn't she?
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Nov 28, 2017 04:54
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idonotlikepeas posted:Yeah, this is how I interpreted it. Except I don't think Battler drowned here. The narration specifically says that Battler reappearing was impossible, since he already had floated away, so it's most likely that it really was impossible and didn't actually happen. That part was just Sayo's fantasy as she drowned. The Battler/Beatrice romance is <good> and interesting but it all hinges on a version of Battler that never really existed, which probably explains some of the weird things like them jumping almost immediately into romance as soon as the hate is dealt with. They never really get to be friends before they're romantic partners, because the entire relationship is just a symbol of... something else, probably? Augh, it gives me a headache, especially because we're much much much more familiar with the even-more-fictionalized Meta!Battler than we are with the 'real' Battler.
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Nov 28, 2017 04:55
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it's a metaphor
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Nov 28, 2017 04:58
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curiousCat posted:She still killed Rosa and Hideyoshi, didn't she? There were blanks in the gun, but not all of them were blanks.
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Nov 28, 2017 05:00
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