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There is a lot of work that needs to get done but I don't know if an elected NPC is the best way to handle it. It's becoming a machine not for getting word done but for burning people out.
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Nov 27, 2017 22:36
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hi liter posted:NPC is mostly the loving boring drudgery that comes with running a growing political org, and I don't think that most of the new online folks understood that (myself included). People were elected without much in terms of a proven resume or record of good organizing. i suspect that members of the dsa aren't going to be any better at picking national leaders than the general public
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Nov 27, 2017 22:37
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*eyes bulging* *sets down pipe filled with smoldering cuban tobacco* we need... a purge
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Nov 27, 2017 22:37
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I think there should be a parliamentary system for dsa, with local chapters elect delegates to work on and vote for national organizing strategies and similar work. Would give all those caucuses something to do.
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Nov 27, 2017 22:42
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Al! posted:i suspect that members of the dsa aren't going to be any better at picking national leaders than the general public I want to believe we are better and choosing leaders and setting political priorities as an organization, because otherwise whats the point? We've grown a lot as an org in the last year. If we keep it together we can keep develop good leaders and organizers who replace current ones and expand organizational capacity, leaders who ideally can go on to lead outside of our own organization.
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Nov 27, 2017 22:46
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The DSA should elect a crypto-NPC. Using Blockchain Technology, a new NPC will be created using a secret election. The members of the NPC will be known to no-one, not even each other. We will only known them by their public cryptography keys.
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Nov 27, 2017 22:47
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lol also just noticed chapo Amber was in that screenshot
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Nov 27, 2017 23:12
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freckle posted:lol also just noticed chapo Amber was in that screenshot yeeeeepppppppppp lol
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Nov 27, 2017 23:28
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someone post the screen i don’t want to wade into left twitter atm
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Nov 27, 2017 23:29
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Zikan posted:someone post the screen i don’t want to wade into left twitter atm empireofcrime posted:So I guess someone has beef with RL Stephens? https://t.co/O9tuSr6PTk
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Nov 27, 2017 23:30
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Zikan posted:someone post the screen i don’t want to wade into left twitter atm
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Nov 27, 2017 23:39
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is that seriously it lmao that’s seriously it?
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Nov 27, 2017 23:41
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hi liter posted:I want to believe we are better and choosing leaders and setting political priorities as an organization, because otherwise whats the point? That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above, corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracles of the One Thing.
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Nov 27, 2017 23:59
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Impermanent posted:I think there should be a parliamentary system for dsa, with local chapters elect delegates to work on and vote for national organizing strategies and similar work. Would give all those caucuses something to do.
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Nov 28, 2017 00:08
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I don't get how this is damning against RL. Like, I'm reading the same thread you guys are, right? Dude might be overreacting, but he's not wrong.
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Nov 28, 2017 00:26
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Yeah. RL is far too online, I don't know him in person, and I have no interest in either defending or damning him. However, he gets way more heat for his opinions than far more abrasive people, far more online people, and I'm not going to sit here and pretend that half of DSA doesn't flip its poo poo at a loud black man. If he is abusive or toxic, and if he is perpetuating sexism and patriarchy, we need to build a culture that can address that and hold him accountable, and that culture will not exist as long as half of DSA flips its poo poo at a loud black man daring to exist in a leadership position. also maybe someday we can acknowledge that the dirtbag leftism embodied by the chapo crew among others helps reinforce an atmosphere where bigotry can flourish under the auspices of crudeness much like certain other transgressive spaces abolish the npc
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Nov 28, 2017 00:40
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Corporal Beefheart posted:I don't get how this is damning against RL. Like, I'm reading the same thread you guys are, right? Dude might be overreacting, but he's not wrong. He's not wrong, I agree, but having been elected to a position in the national (to the extent we've got it) leadership of the organization he should have immediately gone to the harassment committee or whatever, not be Extremely Online about it. What she said was harassment and he, as a leader, should show that it both a) won't be tolerated and b) will be dealt with by the organization. I like RL. I like his politics. I listen to/read a lot of what he produces and generally agree ~but~ I really don't think this sort of (bureaucratic, public, high-level) leadership suits him. (let's say) we're a 30,000 member org and people are going to say poo poo, and some people are going to say really awful poo poo, and that's not going to get better if/as that number gets bigger. How is airing everything out online is going to address anything? Is RL is bringing this stuff to the NPC or the harassment committee or whatever and he's getting shot down? If so that's a huge deal that we should all be mad and nude about, but AFAIK that's not the case Also what the gently caress fetonte was on the call? I thought he was basically run out
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Nov 28, 2017 01:03
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deep web creep posted:Also what the gently caress fetonte was on the call? I thought he was basically run out
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Nov 28, 2017 01:21
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so I'm gonna clear up some things here, since people are getting confused about the timetable. this call happened at the beginning of the Fetonte Situation, iirc like a week after the convention, when Texas chapters and members (myself included) were still willing to give Fetonte the benefit of the doubt. it was also during that time period where DSA members were calling for, among other things, the dissolution of the Austin chapter, the dissolution of all Texas chapters, the murder of all Austin members, and the murder of varying amounts of Texas members. that call was specifically supposed to be a call for Texas leadership and the NPC to discuss our treatment by national membership and how things could be improved, as well as to get an idea of Texas chapters' opinions of the situation. during the call, RL ended up filibustering for a period of time when someone asked a (stupid) question and generally was rude to the people in the call. he eventually left before Fetonte was asked to join near the end to answer questions. imo the whole situation was dumb, and the person reacting to the suggestion of "maybe we shouldn't threaten to punch people" with open and naked hostility should never be in any leadership position because holy poo poo. R. Mute posted:big bucks saying the call was ages ago and one of these drama addicted teenagers either dug it up or is still Post On FB angry about it it's literally this, this was nearly 3 months ago
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Nov 28, 2017 01:31
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apokaladle posted:also maybe someday we can acknowledge that the dirtbag leftism embodied by the chapo crew among others helps reinforce an atmosphere where bigotry can flourish under the auspices of crudeness much like certain other transgressive spaces Given it's Amber trying to get him kicked out, yeah there's a bit more of a direct path here between the org and the podcast. Her approach seems... questionable about race matters at times, yes.
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Nov 28, 2017 01:42
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apokaladle posted:also maybe someday we can acknowledge that the dirtbag leftism embodied by the chapo crew among others helps reinforce an atmosphere where bigotry can flourish under the auspices of crudeness much like certain other transgressive spaces I doubt crudeness is driving anyone to bigotry that weren't already there.
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Nov 28, 2017 01:44
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Syndlig posted:it's literally this, this was nearly 3 months ago
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Nov 28, 2017 01:45
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decorum and go along to get along does way way more to shelter bigotry than dirtbag leftists getting too abrasive or too obsessed with "identity politics" sometimes
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Nov 28, 2017 01:47
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deep web creep posted:He's not wrong, I agree, but having been elected to a position in the national (to the extent we've got it) leadership of the organization he should have immediately gone to the harassment committee or whatever, not be Extremely Online about it. What she said was harassment and he, as a leader, should show that it both a) won't be tolerated and b) will be dealt with by the organization. I don't disagree with any of this, I think, and I hope he did go to whatever committee exists. At the same time, DSA both nationally and in every local I'm aware of has had systemic issues with race (some places more so than others) and the NPC has been shown to be incapable of dealing with anything, especially when there are larger political implications that can be read into a given situation. Without assigning blame, I don't have any reason to believe that DSA has the capability to address this. Al! posted:decorum and go along to get along does way way more to shelter bigotry than dirtbag leftists getting too abrasive or too obsessed with "identity politics" sometimes Mostly because there are far more people who believe in decorum.
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Nov 28, 2017 01:53
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reading amber's stupid response and hearing this is from a call three months ago this feels like mostly a fight between two huge narcissists and am already tired of how long this will be playing out for
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Nov 28, 2017 02:02
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abolish npc and whatver group amber is part of, only solution
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Nov 28, 2017 02:02
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does it actually affect your local work cause if not then who cares
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Nov 28, 2017 02:03
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bump_fn posted:does it actually affect your local work cause if not then who cares
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Nov 28, 2017 02:04
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Syndlig posted:it's literally this, this was nearly 3 months ago jesus christ. well, thanks for the clarification. apokaladle posted:Without assigning blame, I don't have any reason to believe that DSA has the capability to address this. Well said. I sincerely hope this sort of thing is at least blunted as the org matures.
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Nov 28, 2017 02:19
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To be perfectly honest, a large part of why I identify as an anarchist is that leadership roles tend to be most attractive to people that aren't worth following.
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Nov 28, 2017 02:19
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I don’t really give a poo poo about anything the NPC thinks or says or does until they disburse all the money they got that was supposed to go to Charlottesville victims
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Nov 28, 2017 02:27
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Pomp posted:more like frotskyists i wish
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Nov 28, 2017 02:30
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bump_fn posted:does it actually affect your local work cause if not then who cares it doesn't but I love drama
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Nov 28, 2017 02:39
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i don't know who these people are but they should be voted out
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Nov 28, 2017 02:51
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lmao at both sides of this nonsense inadvertently making a good argument for democratic centralism
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Nov 28, 2017 03:34
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R. Guyovich posted:lmao at both sides of this nonsense inadvertently making a good argument for democratic centralism they're not really discussing an issue tho
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Nov 28, 2017 03:35
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HMS Beagle posted:Any Portland DSA people in here? It seems there is an intense amount of drama all of a sudden. Late but yeah, I’m in PDX DSA. That being said, I’m also not especially up to date on Slack or Facebook and have been out of town or otherwise busy for the last two chapter meetings, so I’ve only caught the hilarity from the periphery. This sort of bullshit is exactly why I don’t get overly involved with any organization so much as focus on individual passion causes, because it’s pretty petty and ridiculous. I mean, I agree with what the rogue emailer said in general about needing to do some real work on addressing racial injustice, but doing an email blast complaining about it to the whole chapter in a resignation letter is really silly. Plus, I didn’t attend any of the meetings in question, so I have a hard time judging harshly based on only her account. Basically, leftists gonna leftist and split off into factions to cannibalize their own, so what the gently caress ever, I’ll maybe be back at the next meeting and see where all the chips fell.
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Nov 28, 2017 03:36
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Zikan posted:someone post the screen i don’t want to wade into left twitter atm lmao if you are ever offline
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Nov 28, 2017 03:45
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Kunster posted:Given it's Amber trying to get him kicked out, yeah there's a bit more of a direct path here between the org and the podcast. Her approach seems... questionable about race matters at times, yes. Amber's not trying to get anyone kicked out you dork, she's calling him out for publicly making GBS threads medicare for all campaigning (including East Bay DSA's) and working against it. In September + October, he was passively-aggressively making GBS threads on the medicare proposal and following it up with "i'm just asking questions, folks, no need to get mad at me"-type tweets. People are pissed that he's been belittling their work while proposing nothing concrete to replace it. Just last week he basically said he'd only support the national healthcare campaign if prison and police abolition were shoehorned into it, like baby's first attempt at attaching a rider to a bill. Of all of the members of the NPC on twitter, he's simultaneously the worst at organizational politics and the best at being an rear end. R. Guyovich posted:lmao at both sides of this nonsense inadvertently making a good argument for democratic centralism no one's getting purged from the DSA for taking a smoke break while i'm alive. demcent can eat my rear end!!! Slanderer has issued a correction as of 03:53 on Nov 28, 2017 |
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Nov 28, 2017 03:51
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R. Guyovich posted:lmao at both sides of this nonsense inadvertently making a good argument for democratic centralism "hey! it's me. i mean... you! i'm you from the future! join PSL!"
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Nov 28, 2017 03:57
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