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RuanGacho posted:I have no moral authority or anything but there was a relevant post some ex google guy wrote on the topic of violence against Nazis and how their existence breaks the peace treaty in the first place. 1. Pathological need to be correct 2. The pathological need to feel superior by putting minorities in their place 3. hey maybe Nazis aren't that bad, there's good people on both sides, all violence is wrong and genocidal maniacs can be reasoned with? (optional)
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Nov 28, 2017 20:47
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Talmonis posted:True, and a fair point. But until we get to a point in time where we can have a world that is more equitable, I think it's the responsibility of those who benefit the most to do what they can to influence positive change. The rest of us just don't have that kind of power. This is some "wait for a more fair season" White Moderate bullshit.
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Nov 28, 2017 20:48
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Ytlaya posted:No, merely having great wealth is inherently deeply immoral... And I would say it is absolutely as bad as fascism. FDR was absolutely as bad as Hitler?
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Nov 28, 2017 20:48
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Democrazy posted:Stepping aside from some of the other debates going on, Ajit Pai may be a bad guy, but I haven’t really seen any proof that he’s a fascist or a Nazi, particularly since he’s a person of color and the son of immigrants. I've been talking about actual alt-right guys, complicit republicans and real life neo-nazis and such edit: although at this point I'm fine just calling the entire GOP fascists and complicit enablers.
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Nov 28, 2017 20:48
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nazis are monsters how is this hard
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Nov 28, 2017 20:49
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Koalas March posted:I think that telling someone they're wrong about the lens with which the view their own oppressors is pedantic, thoughtless, and frankly, cruel. I'm sorry if I came off that way. I think you're right that they act like monsters. But I just think that by saying they're nothing more than monsters is letting humanity itself off too easily. Others who didn't stop them are complicit in it. Tribalism is humanity's greatest sin.
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Nov 28, 2017 20:49
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How is Ajit Pai not a complicit Republican?
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Nov 28, 2017 20:51
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Koalas March posted:Nazis are not simply "broken people" they are fascists who want to kill me, my family and other already vulnerable minorities. And here it is. The comforting lie. You really really want to believe that a person being "broken" is enough for them to become so horrible. But they are. They are broken people. This is one of the ways people can break. The violence you advocate is the sort of violence that simply needs to be done to people who break in certain ways to achieve desirable outcomes, when we lack the power, the time, the opportunity to fix them before they do irreversible damage - and often enough, we lack that power, that time, that opportunity. If circumstances were different, you, your family, those vulnerable minorities - you'd be up their sig heiling with the best of them. All it would take is to break you in just the right way, in just the right environment, and that's you. That's where you'd be. You are not fundamentally, intrinsically different from them. This is the danger you are seeking to minimize, and the source of all their power - it doesn't take much to turn most people into fascists... nor does it really take much to prevent it. They are not some outside force, some external pressure that can simply be resisted or fought off or withstood. They need to be dealt with more aggressively than that, or the ideology will just grow back, because it is a very human ideology. And if you ever started advocating the ends they advocate, I don't care what twist you put on it, you will still be a person. And I'd punch you, too, or do whatever other violence is needed to prevent you from obtaining your goals. stone cold posted:nazis are monsters Has anyone disagreed with Nazis are monsters? Maybe I missed it. It's just that people are monsters, and monsters, real monsters, are people. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Nov 28, 2017 |
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Nov 28, 2017 20:51
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Talmonis posted:I'm sorry if I came off that way. I think you're right that they act like monsters. But I just think that by saying they're nothing more than monsters is letting humanity itself off too easily. Others who didn't stop them are complicit in it. Tribalism is humanity's greatest sin. apropos of nothing quote:“We so obviously despise them, we so obviously condescend to them,” the conservative social scientist Charles Murray, who co-wrote The Bell Curve, recently told The New Yorker, speaking of the white working class. “The only slur you can use at a dinner party and get away with is to call somebody a redneck—that won’t give you any problems in Manhattan.”
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Nov 28, 2017 20:51
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Koalas March posted:Fascists are not people. I mean if that's what you gotta do, then do it, but it seems silly to assert that they aren't people when they clearly are "people". Terrible people who deserve to have terrible things happen to them, but people nevertheless.
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Nov 28, 2017 20:51
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Koalas March posted:I've been talking about actual alt-right guys, complicit republicans and real life neo-nazis and such You were responding to a comment I made that I can think that the Republican chair of the FCC is a person. We can dislike his policies without calling him not a person. Edit: I mean, he’s literally a person of color and the son of an immigrant. Call me crazy but I don’t think he’s a white supremacist. Democrazy fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Nov 28, 2017 |
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Nov 28, 2017 20:51
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Trabisnikof posted:Well in the same way that nothing anyone posts here matters, nothing matters. This is a lot of words for saying absolutely nothing. Like, come on, why are you even arguing the point when the best you can muster is some dime store psychoanalysis about what those people surely must think based on nothing except your own unfounded assumptions?
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Nov 28, 2017 20:52
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GlyphGryph posted:If only we sympathized with the poow widdle nazis harder they wouldn’t have done the holocaust!
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Nov 28, 2017 20:53
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Nazis want me dead. These people are professing to be Nazis. Nazis, again, want me dead. Nazis have a history of killing people, and these people are professing to be Nazis. Nazis, and I keep repeating this, want me dead. But lol, no I should wait for them to recruit more and hope that they're just kidding when they say that they, Nazis, want me dead. A Nazi deserves a boot to the neck and a bullet to the brain.
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Nov 28, 2017 20:53
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what about those poor people who are simply humble victims of circumstance and want to commit genocide?
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Nov 28, 2017 20:54
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WampaLord posted:This is some "wait for a more fair season" White Moderate bullshit. So Gates should instead not use his massive wealth to help save people from AIDS or Malaria? If he was just yet another prick hoarding his money, the outcome would be worse than what it is.
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Nov 28, 2017 20:54
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^^^ He is a prick hoarding his money, though. The fact he doesn't hoard a portion of it doesn't change that. And it shouldn't be his choice what to spend that money on in the first place, because he shouldn't even rightfully own it. As I said before, it's like someone with several buttons in front of them, each of which would save many lives of pushed. Should you praise someone for pushing a couple of the buttons and ignoring the others? Of course not; they're still a monster who chose not to save even more lives at virtually no cost to their own well being and lifestyle.Koalas March posted:3. hey maybe Nazis aren't that bad, there's good people on both sides, all violence is wrong and genocidal maniacs can be reasoned with? (optional) I don't think anyone in this particular discussion is trying to defend fascists by pointing out they're human. They're not pointing it out as a "so we should have empathy towards them and try to get them to change" thing (like all those dumb articles in the media), but more to highlight the fact that some people in any society are vulnerable to becoming monsters like that under the right conditions. Once people become like that they're irredeemable, but it's important to keep in mind that this isn't just a random natural disaster and that there are circumstances that can lead to people becoming so terrible. I can't really blame you for interpreting things that way, though, given how common this sort of "humanizing Nazis" stuff has been in the media and elsewhere. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Nov 28, 2017 |
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Nov 28, 2017 20:55
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We are nonviolent with people who are nonviolent with us. — Malcolm X
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Nov 28, 2017 20:55
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Concerning nonviolence, it is criminal to teach a man not to defend himself when he is the constant victim of brutal attacks.— Malcolm X
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Nov 28, 2017 20:56
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Mmm yes just make things up that I have explicitly opposed and act as if I said them, yes, that makes complete sense. Koalas March posted:what about those poor people who are simply humble victims of circumstance and want to commit genocide? We loving shoot them, just like we did last time. Oh my loving god what is wrong with you, why is this so hard to understand. I'm not the one who needs to lie to themselves in order to be able to shoot people that absolutely need to be shot.
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Nov 28, 2017 20:56
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HootTheOwl posted:Nazis want me dead. These people are professing to be Nazis. Nazis, again, want me dead. Nazis have a history of killing people, and these people are professing to be Nazis. Nazis, and I keep repeating this, want me dead. But lol, no I should wait for them to recruit more and hope that they're just kidding when they say that they, Nazis, want me dead.
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Nov 28, 2017 20:56
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HootTheOwl posted:A Nazi deserves a boot to the neck and a bullet to the brain. 
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Nov 28, 2017 20:56
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I believe that there will ultimately be a clash between the oppressed and those that do the oppressing. I believe that there will be a clash between those who want freedom, justice and equality for everyone and those who want to continue the systems of exploitation. — Malcolm X
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Nov 28, 2017 20:57
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I guess that the real baffling thing to me here is why some people ITT get so hung up on what label somebody else decides to slap on a nazi that they feel the need to argue on about it at length even when they admit it makes no practical difference. Seriously, get some drat perspective ya nerdlingers.
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Nov 28, 2017 20:58
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You don’t have to be a man to fight for freedom. All you have to do is to be an intelligent human being. — Malcolm X
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Nov 28, 2017 20:58
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nazis aren’t people why is this controversial y’all got goddamn brain spiders or some poo poo
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Nov 28, 2017 20:58
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GlyphGryph posted:Mmm yes just make things up that I have explicitly opposed and act as if I said them, yes, that makes complete sense. Because people wanna argue and it is easier to pretend that anti-dehumanization is anti-violence than actually engage for or against dehumanization as an ideological tenant.
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Nov 28, 2017 20:59
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Malcolm X. Worse than nazis? Some inthis thread think so.
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Nov 28, 2017 20:59
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Cerebral Bore posted:I guess that the real baffling thing to me here is why some people ITT get so hung up on what label somebody else decides to slap on a nazi that they feel the need to argue on about it at length even when they admit it makes no practical difference. Seriously, get some drat perspective ya nerdlingers. because they have a pathological need to be right and feel superior by putting the oppressed in their place while claiming to be their allies.
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Nov 28, 2017 20:59
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Cerebral Bore posted:I guess that the real baffling thing to me here is why some people ITT get so hung up on what label somebody else decides to slap on a nazi that they feel the need to argue on about it at length even when they admit it makes no practical difference. Seriously, get some drat perspective ya nerdlingers. I have no loving clue why some people in this thread are so goddamn butthurt about calling Nazi's people, but they really do.
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Nov 28, 2017 20:59
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nonviolence is reactionary
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Nov 28, 2017 20:59
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Kilroy posted:Sure they are. You shouldn't have to dehumanize people before you endorse violent action against them. Just accept that sometimes certain humans must have violence done upon them for the greater good. Good lord, I agree with you completely on something. It may snow in Florida.
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Nov 28, 2017 20:59
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stone cold posted:nazis aren’t people why is this controversial y’all got goddamn brain spiders or some poo poo How are Nazi born?
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Nov 28, 2017 20:59
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Cerebral Bore posted:I guess that the real baffling thing to me here is why some people ITT get so hung up on what label somebody else decides to slap on a nazi that they feel the need to argue on about it at length even when they admit it makes no practical difference. Seriously, get some drat perspective ya nerdlingers. It does matter. Kill Nazis. Their enablers need only be punched.
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Nov 28, 2017 21:00
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Trabisnikof posted:How are Nazi born? by abandoning their humanity
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Nov 28, 2017 21:00
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GlyphGryph posted:I have no loving clue why some people in this thread are so goddamn butthurt about calling Nazi's people, but they really do. gb2 stormfrontchan
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Nov 28, 2017 21:00
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Nov 28, 2017 21:00
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stone cold posted:nazis aren’t people why is this controversial y’all got goddamn brain spiders or some poo poo Koalas March posted:because they have a pathological need to be right and feel superior by putting the oppressed in their place while claiming to be their allies. I don't think that rises to the level of putting anyone "in their place".
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Nov 28, 2017 21:01
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oppressed minority: the people who want to kill me (or worse) are monsters goons: well actually they are human beings, beeop boop
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Nov 28, 2017 21:02
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Kilroy posted:It is splitting hairs and personally I don't give much of a drat if you want to insist they aren't people, or not. I don't see the point in doing so, but you do you. you’re telling km, a black Jew, that actually nazis aren’t monsters they’re really people 
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Nov 28, 2017 21:02
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