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Wulfolme posted:How many bitcoins are in that wallet of Satoshi's that's lost forever? You can just look that up, right? The guess is something like 25% of coins mined are gone forever.
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Nov 28, 2017 22:30
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:The guess is something like 25% of coins mined are gone forever. awesome
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Nov 28, 2017 22:32
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Uranium 235 posted:yeah but if all the miners stopped mining and began attacking wallets then they'd destroy the market value of bitcoin and even if they hacked wallets successfully, they wouldn't get much out of it Bitcoin is a bad scheme even compared to other cryptos that have more functionality or a higher transaction limit and yet here it is It's almost as if people aren't always rational and may do things that are stupid
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Nov 28, 2017 22:34
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If you're depending on greedy assholes not doing a greedy rear end in a top hat thing because of long term effects then lol People are already bruteforcing wallets.
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Nov 28, 2017 22:39
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Here it is, a few goons have figured out how cryptos will die First, the sheer lost coins will start adding up... 25% lost... try to mine more when a quarter are missing, idiots!! Then, people are dumb, which is something you can throw out whenever your theory doesn't fit what's happening, will take hold China's crackdown on cryptocurrencies will finally force the miners to stop mining (The China Syndrome was about the cryptocurrency meltdown) At which point the miners will start attacking wallets And the buttcoiners will have been right as Bitcoin sails back down to $1000 Wrap it up folks. The only question is when? Clearly by early 2018 you can expect to see a skynet like future with blackened skies and ruined beanie baby havers. T100s will be sent back in time to when Bitcoins were $20 in an attempt to avert this future
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Nov 28, 2017 22:43
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Actually I think like all speculative bubbles this one will end when demand decreases sufficiently for supply to meet demand at a much lower price point. HOWEVER because some coins are lost, because it's hard to mine any more and because demand seems to be growing organically by the second as the asset price increases, this run might have some legs left in it. Will be interesting to see.
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Nov 28, 2017 22:53
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Hahahaha the whatever of of thermodynamics! Hahahahahahahhahahahah
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Nov 28, 2017 22:54
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COMRADES posted:If you're depending on greedy assholes not doing a greedy rear end in a top hat thing because of long term effects then lol it will be interesting when bruteforcing wallets becomes cheaper than mining coins
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Nov 28, 2017 22:55
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FogHelmut posted:it will be interesting when bruteforcing wallets becomes cheaper than mining coins i thought the machines that do the mining can only do mining and nothing else like the warehouses in china are asics and not video cards
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Nov 28, 2017 23:02
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It's more a question of relative costs of production so to speak. If I need 10 warehouses of hardware to mine a butt/month and just 2 warehouses to brute force a butt/month then I'll do the latter. If I'm an established miner that means there is some retooling cost sure but increased profits over time will take care of that initial investment.
COMRADES fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Nov 28, 2017 |
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Nov 28, 2017 23:04
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It’s probably better than clear cutting and mountain top blasting as means of production. And it literally prevents inflation. You sly Chinese
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Nov 28, 2017 23:06
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But still that's moot relative to the main flaw which is that it has no value whatsoever beyond "someone else down the line will buy it for more than I paid." The talk about usefulness as a currency and buying stuff online is just fluff. The $1b volume touted by the BTC people is overwhelmingly just buying/selling/trading of BTC and not actual useful transactions such as buying goods or services. There will probably always be some niche libertarians who will accept BTC or whatever equivalent but that's just not enough to support a global currency. Then your next biggest use case is money laundering. The average BTC person these days doesn't care about use as a currency, or evading taxes, or etc they care about number go up. e: Also excuse me but unless I'm taking crazy pills here the entire original point of BTC is slowly being eroded - why would I use BTC instead of dollars? They aren't particularly anonymous. They can be taxed. There is absolutely a rapidly centralizing authority group determining "monetary policy" (a national bank with no nation). What's their point exactly? Their point is number go up. \/\/\/ for sure I'm kind of just ranting at no one in particular anyway COMRADES fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Nov 28, 2017 |
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Nov 28, 2017 23:10
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Oh I’m not saying it’s good. I’m just saying it’s funny
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Nov 28, 2017 23:14
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"Then your next biggest use case is money laundering." I'd like you to take a guess on the value of all money laundering done worldwide, and what coin price would correspond to BTC being used entirely but solely for this purpose?
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Nov 28, 2017 23:20
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Bitcoin>illegal stuff> us currency. Hence “reserve” currency. Only spenders etc etc
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Nov 28, 2017 23:22
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Correct me if I'm wrong but are you about to try and make an argument on the basis of "well, there's a lot of money in money laundering!" I mean yeah alright I guess HSBC didn't get their license taken away so gently caress it but they had the club of "we will cause a global economic crisis if you do anything to us *wink*"
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Nov 28, 2017 23:22
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Well the “work” of the “product” is turning electricity into math that can be bought and sold
killmeimmafailure fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Nov 28, 2017 |
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Nov 28, 2017 23:23
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No, because bitcoin isn't the stock of a company earning its money doing money laundering. It's just a financial asset that can be used for money laundering, and any asset with these properties has really enormous value and will remain in high demand while it's the most elegant solution to make wealth stateless.
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Nov 28, 2017 23:26
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:No, because bitcoin isn't the stock of a company earning its money doing money laundering. It's just a financial asset that can be used for money laundering, and any asset with these properties has really enormous value and will remain in high demand while it's the most elegant solution to make wealth stateless. lmao quote:the most elegant solution to make wealth stateless That's some fancy words for "tax evasion."
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Nov 28, 2017 23:26
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There's a reason China had to ban BTC and the United States just shrugged and said, "whatever," and it's because one of those two countries has a real problem with capital flight and the other country is currently the world's safe haven currency.
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Nov 28, 2017 23:27
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Just shrugged and said "whatever just pay your taxes also we are using our supercomputers to figure out this whole "anonymous" thing so we'll know whose wallets are whose for those tax forms."
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Nov 28, 2017 23:29
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Glad we could reinvent the wheel for everybody
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Nov 28, 2017 23:29
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And yeah my question there was what gives BTC an advantage over the dollar which is apparently nothing as it is just a vehicle for money laundering into the actual safe haven currency of... US dollars. It's not like life insurance which is a legit financial concept which CAN be abused to launder money, the whole entire purpose of BTC is to conduct anonymous business and evade notice.
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Nov 28, 2017 23:30
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COMRADES posted:lmao Yeah, the same poo poo I've been saying, it's useful to people for a variety of use cases, and more useful than fiat currency for some of those use cases, and the amount of people finding it useful is growing and that is reflected in the price This is precisely why I brought up Venezuela and Zimbabwe, as well as India post devaluation as places where the use case became flat out obvious Which was handwaved away with "An article from reason quoting like 20 people from 2016 is liberterian bullshit" 
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Nov 28, 2017 23:30
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COMRADES posted:lmao It's more than taxes, comrade, it's being a wealthy Russian plutocrat and not knowing if friend Putin still thinks as highly of me and not wanting my assets to be seized by Mother Russia. I fill a wallet with coins and walk across the border a mostly free man. You can do this with diamonds or gold (bulky, cumbersome), you can do this with wire transfers (paper trail) or now you can do this with bitcoins. I don't condone any of this, but it's the reality underlying why this thing is demanded the way it is. I don't think it's mostly sweaty nerds covered in cheetoh dust buying these things by now. I'm a patriot and I'm proud to pay my taxes full and on time every single year in the best country on Earth, the United States of America, but a lot of very wealthy people feel very differently about their burden to society, and this asset will reflect their sentiment.
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Nov 28, 2017 23:31
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Getting money to people in authoritarian, war torn countries?
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Nov 28, 2017 23:31
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Very notably you cannot do this with US dollars, and in fact it's one of the reasons that they don't have a denomination of dollar larger than the $100, so you can't just sneak in the country with a Freddie Roosevelt $1,000,000,000 coin for deposit without all the paperwork. Customs searches for all kinds of things when you cross the border, and they are certainly sniffing for greenbacks.
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Nov 28, 2017 23:33
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killmeimmafailure posted:Getting money to people in authoritarian, war torn countries? And remittances in general, and doing any transactions banned in your specific country but allowed somewhere else (even benign poo poo like online poker), and the usefulness of a currency that can't be printed by a nation state that gets in debt as tons of countries face debt problems
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Nov 28, 2017 23:33
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Ham Sandwiches posted:Which was handwaved away with "An article from reason quoting like 20 people from 2016 is liberterian bullshit"
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Nov 28, 2017 23:34
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Please note that I am not condoning money laundering, nor enthusiastic about BTC's long-term appeal, nor am I stating it is an "investment," a word that does not describe what BTC is - an asset, and one which currently seems to be in a rather dramatic appreciative phase mostly likely indicating a speculative bubble.
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Nov 28, 2017 23:37
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:It's more than taxes, comrade, it's being a wealthy Russian plutocrat and not knowing if friend Putin still thinks as highly of me and not wanting my assets to be seized by Mother Russia. I fill a wallet with coins and walk across the border a mostly free man. You can do this with diamonds or gold (bulky, cumbersome), you can do this with wire transfers (paper trail) or now you can do this with bitcoins. Let me be real here though: I don't give half of a poo poo about these bourgie fucks extracting their wealth and fleeing. When you say Putin I think of poor hosed up alcoholics on the street corner not the oligarchs worried about their millions. Ham Sandwiches posted:Yeah, the same poo poo I've been saying, it's useful to people for a variety of use cases, and more useful than fiat currency for some of those use cases, and the amount of people finding it useful is growing and that is reflected in the price And you know, don't take this the wrong way but, gently caress this libertarian bullshit too. And all the stuff about war torn countries. The problem is the fact that people need to "mine crypto currency" to support their families because the economic situation around them is so jacked up. You shouldn't see mass suffering in those situations and go "ah yes, this is why we need bitcoins." And anyway again, the only value of these things to these people is their exchange value in to US dollars. They aren't the ones propping the price up, they're just benefiting from the speculation of richer people. It could just as easily be done with MoridinCoins in 5 years and then what do you do with your BTC? COMRADES fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Nov 28, 2017 |
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Nov 28, 2017 23:37
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:It's more than taxes, comrade, it's being a wealthy Russian plutocrat and not knowing if friend Putin still thinks as highly of me and not wanting my assets to be seized by Mother Russia. I fill a wallet with coins and walk across the border a mostly free man. You can do this with diamonds or gold (bulky, cumbersome), you can do this with wire transfers (paper trail) or now you can do this with bitcoins. It's also about being a Chinese "socialist", realizing how cheap electricity is over there, and trying to turn all of it into sweet, not at all corrupt* USD. *Note: not guaranteed to protect you from Xi Jinping's Anti-corruption campaign. Except as provided above, bitcoin is not liable for any loss, cost, expense, inconvenience or damage that may result from use or inability to use bitcoin miners. Under no circumstances shall bitcoin be liable for any loss, cost, expense, inconvenience or damage exceeding the purchase price of the bitcoins.
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Nov 28, 2017 23:43
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Frankly I just loving hate these things and I can't wait for them to go away. It is absolutely an asset bubble and normal people will absolutely get ultrafucked in the process. They actively support the activities of brutal drug organizations, child rapists/pornographers, and tax evading bourgie. The best argument for their existence seems to be "well this is a way to get people money when their entire country has collapsed around their ears" and frankly I seriously doubt any of you give a poo poo about any of those people even aside from well let's just stop bombing half the world then maybe.
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Nov 28, 2017 23:43
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COMRADES posted:Frankly I just loving hate these things and I can't wait for them to go away. It is absolutely an asset bubble and normal people will absolutely get ultrafucked in the process. They actively support the activities of brutal drug organizations, child rapists/pornographers, and tax evading bourgie. The best argument for their existence seems to be "well this is a way to get people money when their entire country has collapsed around their ears" and frankly I seriously doubt any of you give a poo poo about any of those people even aside from well let's just stop bombing half the world then maybe. Before cryptocurrencies, drug organizations, child rapists / pornographers, and tax evaders all existed, they used fiat currency to do their thing. What a bizarre argument. It's a way to do transactions that are banned by the banks / credit card companies / governments you may be subject to. The idea that nobody cares about the ability to do transactions even when your particular currency is not in trouble is dumb as poo poo. My relatives went through a civil war in I got to see first hand what happens when a national currency becomes worthless. People hoarding money. The uncertainty. Long lines at the bank, and them not opening when they said they would. Withdrawal limits assuming you get any money at all. It loving sucks, dude. If Greeks want to mess around with cryptocurrencies as an alternative to the bullshit they're currently saddled with, that's fine with me. And the idea that they don't have the right, it's all bougie tax dodgers and drug dealers, is just you buying into the secondhand bullshit that's been peddled for years.
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Nov 28, 2017 23:49
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It's not a bizarre argument you asshat because there are multiple organizations dedicated to finding those people using that fiat currency (the secret service for example) and the entire point of BTC is to anonymize everything so you can't be found by said regulators and law enforcement organizations. BTC makes it easier for these people to conduct their lovely business.quote:If Greeks want to mess around with cryptocurrencies as an alternative to the bullshit they're currently saddled with, that's fine with me. And the idea that they don't have the right, it's all bougie tax dodgers and drug dealers, is just you buying into the secondhand bullshit that's been peddled for years. Whose talking about rights? And it *is* all tax dodgers, drug dealers, pedos, and speculators. You're a speculator. Besides lol the Greeks, #1 tax dodgers in the world last I checked. Their problem is the Euro and the EU and austerity not anything intrinsic to fiat currency. e: Pick one: Either only ~800 people in the USA made any profit from BTC in 2015 or poo poo tons of people evaded taxes. COMRADES fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Nov 28, 2017 |
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Nov 28, 2017 23:51
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COMRADES posted:It's not a bizarre argument you asshat because there are multiple organizations dedicated to finding those people using that fiat currency (the secret service for example) and the entire point of BTC is to anonymize everything so you can't be found by said regulators and law enforcement organizations. You sidestepped the issue. The creation of cryptocurrencies did nothing to create or enable those things you rail against, they just happened to start using cryptocurrencies as well for their transactions due to their advantages. Blaming cryptocurrencies for the existence of drug cartels is like blaming fiat money for their existence, both arguments are dumb as hell. By the way you're ignoring all the "Bitcoin is not anonymous! The feds will catch you! Wallets are not private" arguments that were being peddled like a month ago just to double down on the bitcoins = drugs and child porn stuff. How is it that on the one hand it's not private and everyone can see your transactions, and on the other, it's the ultimate tool that will make drugs take off around the world and leave governments helpless while also making people start doing drugs for all those sweet cryptos?
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Nov 28, 2017 23:56
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Ham Sandwiches posted:The creation of cryptocurrencies did nothing to create or enable those things you rail against, they just happened to start using cryptocurrencies as well for their transactions due to their advantages. Dude what in the gently caress is this cognitive dissonance right here. BTC did nothing to enable any of those things, it's just that BTC is useful for doing those things due to advantages it has over regular currency? Specifically the advantage of being anonymous? Markets like the Silk Road were only made possible through things like BTC, by the way, so what? Of *course* they enabled all those things.
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Nov 28, 2017 23:57
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COMRADES posted:Dude Yes, drug cartels existed before cryptocurrencies, and they used fiat money. When cryptocurrencies emerged as a new alternative form of currency, they started using both fiat money and cryptocurrencies. And so drug cartels did not start existing or selling drugs because of cryptocurrencies. What part are you having trouble parsing? What do you consider 'cognitive dissonance' here other than your difficulties understanding sentences and casuality?
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Nov 28, 2017 23:59
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Ham Sandwiches posted:Yes, drug cartels existed before cryptocurrencies, and they used fiat money. When cryptocurrencies emerged as a new alternative form of currency, they started using both fiat money and cryptocurrencies. I've having trouble understanding how you can say BTC did nothing to enable child pornographers while at the same time in the very same sentence you say those people use BTC because of advantages it has over USD. Like, what?
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Nov 28, 2017 23:59
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don't forget the stupendous amounts of electricity needed for mining bitcoins now
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