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Oppressed minority having lived through decades of oopression and violence against themselves and their people: these nazis over here want to take it a step further and actually genocide us. We should stomp them before they gas us! Me, good brained white centrist liberal: mlk jr said violence doesnt solve problems. Stand for the flag too.
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Nov 29, 2017 00:19
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disjoe posted:This is absolutely right but there's probably something to learn from the fact that Germany is the loving City on a Hill right now ...I actually have no idea what you're trying to imply here.
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Nov 29, 2017 00:33
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Ytlaya posted:...I actually have no idea what you're trying to imply here. Nazis are like the chicken pox, its better to go ahead and catch it and get it out of the way???
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Nov 29, 2017 00:36
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Ytlaya posted:...I actually have no idea what you're trying to imply here. Denazification didn't really work, but in the long term German society did something to instill democratic values in its population. I'm just saying there's something there that if closely studied could teach us about how to stop fascism at its roots.
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Nov 29, 2017 00:43
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disjoe posted:Denazification didn't really work, but in the long term German society did something to instill democratic values in its population. Oh it worked as intended alright. We really wanted their scientists to not join the Russians, and were willing to accept just about anything to get them.
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Nov 29, 2017 00:47
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Talmonis posted:Oh it worked as intended alright. We really wanted their scientists to not join the Russians, and were willing to accept just about anything to get them. shoulda just sent them to the firing squad. solves the problem nicely
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Nov 29, 2017 00:49
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Condiv posted:shoulda just sent them to the firing squad. solves the problem nicely Yep. Take any research that isn't nailed down and execute the lot for how the bastards got it.
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Nov 29, 2017 00:57
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Kilroy posted:Reminder that people with the greatest vested interest in holding society together (the super rich) are actively tearing it apart. You're assuming that the insurance industry can and will act in aggregate as a rational actor. It can't. it won't. It's composed of a few thousand major stakeholders, each of which has convinced itself that it can increase profits by a few percent next quarter by shitcanning this or that regulation, and the long-term consequences of same are irrelevant because they aren't modeling them. Capitalists are insane, and also incredibly stupid in a few very specific ways. Again lets get concrete, one can look classification societies say Lloyds Register of Shipping. These entities (the term is "class") were first created to resolve the tension between insurance companies and vessel owners. They model the design, maintenance, construction practices, etc of vessels. Rather than can't and won't, it's very much did and have been for centuries. These bodies are unappointed groups of professionals that engage in a major regulatory function. Class issues certificates on behalf of flag! This is to say nations appoint these bodies to regulate on thier behalf. In addition to ships, class certifies containers. Now step back for a second. I want you too look at the enormity of what this is. This is nearly all the physical equipment that allows for international trade. Class again fits several of definitions presented in this thread of 'technocracy". But they regulate so effectively that unless one is directly involved that they are invisible.
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Nov 29, 2017 01:26
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BrandorKP posted:Again lets get concrete, one can look classification societies say Lloyds Register of Shipping. These entities (the term is "class") were first created to resolve the tension between insurance companies and vessel owners. They model the design, maintenance, construction practices, etc of vessels. Rather than can't and won't, it's very much did and have been for centuries. These bodies are unappointed groups of professionals that engage in a major regulatory function. Class issues certificates on behalf of flag! This is to say nations appoint these bodies to regulate on thier behalf. In addition to ships, class certifies containers. It sounds like an outlier when compared to resource extraction and production industries though. Logistics that benefit all parties seems like an "easy" win, as opposed to a zero-sum competition.
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Nov 29, 2017 02:15
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Talmonis posted:It sounds like an outlier when compared to resource extraction and production industries though. Logistics that benefit all parties seems like an "easy" win, as opposed to a zero-sum competition. Both those industries are dependant on it. Gotta ship iron ore, gotta ship parts. They don't exist at scale without it.
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Nov 29, 2017 02:17
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Thread should read this guy About the Nazis thing not the technocrats
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Nov 29, 2017 02:23
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disjoe posted:Denazification didn't really work, but in the long term German society did something to instill democratic values in its population.  Lefty dummies treat fascism like conservative morons treat the gay, which is why they completely and utterly lose their minds about "normalizing" and all that other nonsense. Fun fact: the head of the daily stormer was basically antifa a decade or two ago! Actually one of the best comparisons for the alt-right today is looking at islamic extremism: lost boys with no real ideology joining causes for community and identity. It has basically nothing to do with ideology; you got islamic terrorists being caught with "islam for dummies" books and nazi terrorists shouting nonsense memes because they think it will make 'cucked lefties' sad and cry. Or inner city gangs: they recruit using essentially the same methods you'd see in right wing militia. It's honestly weird how differently people here approach islamic terrorism and nazis given the vast amount of similarities and the slim amount of differences. Actually I'm not sure there are even meaningful differences between the groups. twodot posted:Is there a historical example of a society wide de-radicalization program that went well? I'm having difficulty imagining what it would look like. If we've got sufficient access to the Nazi we can put them through programs, the Nazis shouldn't have any appreciable societal power. Like things like this are just completely precious because it's literally word for word exactly what an insane right winger would say about islamic terrorists. botany posted:you mean 45 to 51, and that program was pretty much a failure. Meanwhile in reality you are completely and totally wrong; no experts on the topic would make this claim.
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Nov 29, 2017 03:13
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tsa posted:
Oh yeah man, all leftists are dummies and everyone bad is secretly a leftist. Let's play the "what flavor of right wing poo poo head is this guy" tsa posted:Haha oh man. Wow. Oh, wow, the extremely racist kind! Lol, that's the only kind though so anyone who guessed doesn't win a prize
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Nov 29, 2017 03:23
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Condiv posted:a nazi wedding is: Giving Red Wedding a whole new meaning.
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Nov 29, 2017 03:35
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death to nazis?
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Nov 29, 2017 03:37
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BrandorKP posted:Again lets get concrete, one can look classification societies say Lloyds Register of Shipping. These entities (the term is "class") were first created to resolve the tension between insurance companies and vessel owners. They model the design, maintenance, construction practices, etc of vessels. Rather than can't and won't, it's very much did and have been for centuries. These bodies are unappointed groups of professionals that engage in a major regulatory function. Class issues certificates on behalf of flag! This is to say nations appoint these bodies to regulate on thier behalf. In addition to ships, class certifies containers. I don't think you're using the term in the same way as other people are. You seem to be using it to mean "literally any application of technical expertise by a government organization," but technocracy can better be described as a government lead/guided by an elite of technical experts/scientists/whatever. The thing people generally have an issue with is that technocracy is usually invoked in the context of people claiming that there's a non-ideological and objectively correct/ideal way to run a government and that people with technical expertise are best suited to implementing this. There's often an additional implication that technical skill should take precedence over ideology/values. The problem with this idea is that such an objectively correct/ideal way to govern doesn't exist, and it's impossible to divorce ideology from governance. And when you're talking about high level governance, like the president or senators, it's highly questionable whether there's any real benefit to having technical skill (since a more general sense of good judgement - in addition to good ideology - is probably most useful in such a role). tsa posted:
The issue with this sort of condemnation of Islamic State radicals is a contextual one. Within the context of contemporary American society, someone talking about how IS radicals should be eradicated is usually going to be bigoted towards Muslims (because within the context of American society, Muslims are a minority). But someone in an Islamic State occupied area would be entirely justified in viewing IS radicals in the same way people in this thread are viewing Nazis. This aside, you're not exactly wrong about the fact that there are factors that lead to increased membership in groups like IS or Nazis. But that doesn't excuse the people who join; after all, there are people who have the moral fortitude to not join such groups under the same circumstances. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Nov 29, 2017 |
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Nov 29, 2017 03:48
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tsa posted:
The hottest take.
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Nov 29, 2017 03:54
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Ytlaya that is very reasonable.
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Nov 29, 2017 04:15
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tsa posted:Lefty dummies treat fascism like conservative morons treat the gay stone cold posted:nazis are monsters
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Nov 29, 2017 04:57
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The CBC is hand wringing over Conyers https://twitter.com/katherinemiller/status/935729400728948736 “We all just don’t know what to think,” said one senior Democrat, who agreed to speak to BuzzFeed News on the condition of anonymity. “You don’t want to believe anyone just would lie about something like this. But you don’t want to believe he would do it, either, because we know him. And it’s one thing if it’s Harvey Weinstein, but it’s another thing when it’s somebody you know.”
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Nov 29, 2017 05:45
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Oops wrong thread!
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Nov 29, 2017 06:04
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Condiv posted:shoulda just sent them to the firing squad. solves the problem nicely So are you saying that, after we won ww2, you would have preferred if we genocided our way through Germany? Ytlaya posted:This aside, you're not exactly wrong about the fact that there are factors that lead to increased membership in groups like IS or Nazis. But that doesn't excuse the people who join; after all, there are people who have the moral fortitude to not join such groups under the same circumstances. "Join us and you get $100 a month, say no and we will kill you, burn your house down, and rape your wife" is a pretty difficult thing to say no to.
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Nov 29, 2017 07:14
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Grapplejack posted:So are you saying that, after we won ww2, you would have preferred if we genocided our way through Germany?  hot take alert
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Nov 29, 2017 07:28
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Grapplejack posted:"Join us and you get $100 a month, say no and we will kill you, burn your house down, and rape your wife" is a pretty difficult thing to say no to.
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Nov 29, 2017 07:51
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tsa posted:Meanwhile in reality you are completely and totally wrong; no experts on the topic would make this claim. lol what
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Nov 29, 2017 09:42
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Koalas March posted:Fick die Polizei! Komme direkt aus der U-Bahn. *extremely Rich Evans voice* oh mah gaaaaawd?
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Nov 29, 2017 09:59
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I will throw this out there, the reason why Germany is fairly liberal right now is that generally things have been going well economically since the 1940s, and that is due to a combination of the Marshall Plan, Bretton Woods, the EEC/EU and finally the Euro. The problem is especially with the EU and the Euro, stability in Germany has gone at the cost of stability other European countries that simply can't compete in terms of trade and even then despite those advantages, Germany still has a growing populist right. If anything Germany shows up that even under pretty ideal circumstances that inequality will eventually lead to a radicalization of politics.
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Nov 29, 2017 11:21
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Ardennes posted:I will throw this out there, the reason why Germany is fairly liberal right now is that generally things have been going well economically since the 1940s, and that is due to a combination of the Marshall Plan, Bretton Woods, the EEC/EU and finally the Euro. I agree, but I'd also say that the EU and German-based groups pushing for worse wages and worse social security nets abroad have not helped at all, perhaps moreso than Germany's competitive trade. They seem to have taken "low wages are possible if the government pays for or subsidizes everything else for the worker" and translated it into "if companies pay workers trash everything will sort itself out". Ironic that one of the most powerfully socialized countries around tends to produce the most fervent austerity pundits. A more paranoid person might accuse them of intentionally sabotaging other countries by making them hostile to the model that has made Germany so successful, but I'd chalk it moreso up to simple FYGM.
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Nov 29, 2017 12:53
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Potato Salad posted:death to nazis? Considering how easy it is to not be a Nazi, yes?
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Nov 29, 2017 13:44
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What's the deal with Franken? Looks like he is just trying to duck and cover and hope people forget about him?
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Nov 29, 2017 14:11
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Condiv posted:a nazi wedding is: imagine a nazi wedding. Swasticake. Nazi armband as a garter. All the music is marching bands with heavy brass. Goose-step line dancing. Pastor giving a hellfire invocation. Vows include blood-pact. Black police officer issues a ticket for a noise complaint and they act super gracious and apologetic, then call him a hard n after he leaves.
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Nov 29, 2017 14:16
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Enigma89 posted:What's the deal with Franken? Looks like he is just trying to duck and cover and hope people forget about him? This is a pretty accurate summation. He's a shithead, but nothing he's done is prosecutable and he's banking on worse poo poo just pushing his transgressions off the hit table.
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Nov 29, 2017 14:18
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Enigma89 posted:What's the deal with Franken? Looks like he is just trying to duck and cover and hope people forget about him? He's likely been advised that if he can just weather the initial storm people will lose interest and move on to something else (either through natural loss of interest or, as chilichimp mentioned, something worse coming out about someone else), yeah. He's a loving poo poo.
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Nov 29, 2017 14:26
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Neurolimal posted:I agree, but I'd also say that the EU and German-based groups pushing for worse wages and worse social security nets abroad have not helped at all, perhaps moreso than Germany's competitive trade. Admittedly, that became a bigger deal after 2009, when the rails really came off the venture. However, Germany's economic success wasn't an accident but rather a relatively privileged position in the post-war order compared to where it was in 1945, especially in the EU. Germany can tell you beyond economic stability and high standard of living helps, but a lot if it was situational. It is also why I am not really that impressed by arguments over "cultural morality" when in reality when economic and political history seems to explain everything that is going on. History is a machine, and in it certain results will be produced under certain conditions using the same raw material (humans).
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Nov 29, 2017 14:37
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Chilichimp posted:This is a pretty accurate summation. He's a shithead, but nothing he's done is prosecutable and he's banking on worse poo poo just pushing his transgressions off the hit table. In like three months he'll sponsor a new bill to do something like prevent nondisclosure agreements in sexual harassment cases or something.
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Nov 29, 2017 14:43
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stone cold posted:The only thing wrong with Nazis is that they target people like me. I spend my nights dreaming about how good a Nazi I would be if only they would choose acceptable targets to persecute, like Englishmen and Indians and Pacific Islanders, instead of people I care about, because everything else theyve got going on is really great
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Nov 29, 2017 14:44
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Atomic hot take right here.
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Nov 29, 2017 14:51
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you got brain spiders
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Nov 29, 2017 14:55
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I'm always a little disappointed that none of these people have thrown themselves to the ground and rubbed their faces in the dirt to apologize and beg for forgiveness. Is it just that psychopaths are attracted to power? Do the people in those situations just not feel guilt?
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Nov 29, 2017 14:58
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What are you on about?
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Nov 29, 2017 14:59
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