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SUPERMAN'S GAL PAL posted:Didn’t see this sort of thing shared. Death of the author all you want, but a fascist reading of Pacific Rim is grossly mistaken at best and probably knowingly disingenuous (aka aware the creators’ intention isn’t fascist but willingly twisting it for his own purpose and self-identification anyway). I don't think that's fair to the reading or fair to the director. Guillermo del Toro directed Pan's Labyrinth, he's not some innocent unaware of the themes in his films. I also think it's a mistake to assume that portrayal of a fascist ideology is automatically supportive of that ideology.
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Nov 29, 2017 17:29
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Schwarzwald posted:I don't think that's fair to the reading or fair to the director. Guillermo del Toro directed Pan's Labyrinth, he's not some innocent unaware of the themes in his films. He didn't generalize, he was talking about Pacific Rim specifically. Get specific or screw.
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Nov 29, 2017 18:09
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I still find it amusing and bizarre how internet nerds think Pacific Rim is a fascist film.
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Nov 29, 2017 19:55
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viral spiral posted:I still find it amusing and bizarre how internet nerds think Pacific Rim is a fascist film. It's also funny how the guy's entire film making history to that point being explicitly anti-fascist doesn't give them the slightest bit of pause about it either. This isn't even trying to guess authorial intent, it's just "look at all the other poo poo he made."  "I guess he just turned into a Nazi out of nowhere after his super hatred of them saturated everything he made before!"
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Nov 29, 2017 20:02
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I was thinking about this trailer in the shower, after having listened to the music from it for a few hours yesterday. It struck me, you know... as much as I despised Pacific Rim (and I still do) the sequel may deserve a chance on its own merits. It's a new director, the action shots we've seen look completely different, it sounds like they're dumping that stupid touchy-feely drifting plot device...(?) I've rolled the dice on some pretty iffy poo poo before, if I could pay for a ticket to I, Frankenstein maybe this deserves a shot.
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Nov 29, 2017 20:08
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Multi-national, multi-ethnic alliance comes together to build a resistance to a seemingly unstoppable, evergrowing cosmic threat to all of human life as we know it, abandoning glory and celebrity in order to self-sacrifice for the greater good of all humanity? Ah, clearly a fascist film. It really doesn't matter because it's one shithead Nazi's bad take on films who's a fuckin' Nazi.
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Nov 29, 2017 20:14
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sean10mm posted:It's also funny how the guy's entire film making history to that point being explicitly anti-fascist doesn't give them the slightest bit of pause about it either. This is exactly what I meant when I said it's a mistake to conflate portrayal with support. It's doing a disservice to Guillermo del Toro to assume that after all his other films, he made a film where the greatest and strongest team up to defeat the Other and secure a future for the human race, all while entirely unaware of the implications. It's likewise does him a disservice to assume that this means he's suddenly a Nazi now. Even ruling out studio interference or intended sequels, this is the film where the invaders and humanity are equated, where the giant monsters are portrayed as slaves, and where all the heroes vocally disdain the ideal of hiding behind a wall--up until they win the day by patching a hole in the dimensional wall.
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Nov 29, 2017 21:12
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Schwarzwald posted:This is exactly what I meant when I said it's a mistake to conflate portrayal with support. Why do you want to service Del Toro at all? Why is that the priority? He made a fascist movie by accident. It happens. Specifically, it happened because his Pacific Rim uses Godzilla X Mechagodzilla as its template, and that is a very nuanced socially-conservative film. Remaking such a film, you need to be careful.
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Nov 29, 2017 21:32
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Taintrunner posted:Multi-national, multi-ethnic alliance comes together to build a resistance to a seemingly unstoppable, evergrowing cosmic threat to all of human life as we know it, abandoning glory and celebrity in order to self-sacrifice for the greater good of all humanity? Ah, clearly a fascist film. Starship Troopers also features a multi-national, multi-ethnic alliance coming together to build a resistance to a seemingly unstoppable, evergrowing cosmic threat to all of human life as we know it, abandoning glory and celebrity in order to self-sacrifice for the greater good of all humanity.
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Nov 29, 2017 21:43
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Taintrunner posted:Multi-national, multi-ethnic alliance comes together to build a resistance to a seemingly unstoppable, evergrowing cosmic threat to all of human life as we know it, abandoning glory and celebrity in order to self-sacrifice for the greater good of all humanity? Ah, clearly a fascist film. Don't forget it's rather sweet interracial romance! A clear fascist hallmark! You guys who think PR is fascist: what would have been a "non fascist way" to handle a giant monster invasion?
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Nov 29, 2017 21:52
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Rough Lobster posted:Don't forget it's rather sweet interracial romance! A clear fascist hallmark! Not including all the creepy stuff about burying your emotions for the Greater Good would be a good start. e: if you didn't want the movie to have fascistic principles, I mean; that really has no bearing on its filmic qualities.
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Nov 29, 2017 21:55
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Rough Lobster posted:You guys who think PR is fascist: what would have been a "non fascist way" to handle a giant monster invasion? Achieve solidarity with the enslaved monsters by drifting with them, inciting revolutions on the alien planet and Earth to take down the leadership of both.
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Nov 29, 2017 21:56
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Sir Kodiak posted:Achieve solidarity with the enslaved monsters by drifting with them, inciting revolutions on the alien planet and Earth to take down the leadership of both. Tokyo drifting didn't seem to accomplish that but maybe they should try with a different giant monster and nerd combo.
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Nov 29, 2017 23:35
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What is actually happening in Pacific Rim is the native populations are coming together and rallying to fight off imperialism from a vastly technologically advanced oppressor in order to safeguard themselves from genocide. The wall and retreating inland are in fact resignation to a seemingly unchangeable course of action by the kaiju forces, and are portrayed as unacceptable compromise. America’s white supremacy is so ingrained into our culture that even the supposedly enlightened minds of CineD cannot see a native resistance against cosmic imperialism as anything more than tasteless fascism, you see the same phenomenon in the supposedly “woke” Bioware’s attempt to prop up flimsy intersectionality (dead naming the first trans character you meet) and diverse relationships while embarking on a mission of striking out to a new, seemingly endless expanse of free territory up for claim only to immediately start massacring the natives in flashy third person shoot-em-up action.
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Nov 30, 2017 00:30
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It's total BS that the kaiju are best read as some kind of colonizing invader, though, when so many parallels are drawn between them and us, their very presence is explicitly our fault, we visit insane abuse on them whenever we're in a position of strength, etc.
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Nov 30, 2017 00:44
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I think the idea is that the Kaiju and the Jaeger are both "composite minds," meta-consciouses derived in the Kaiju's case from the (enslaving) thought-beams of their unseen masters but in the concordant assimilation of two pilots in the Jaeger's case. The idea is supposed to be that human cooperation beats alien master/slave tag team. This is pretty much exactly how fascism sees itself versus its enemies by the way. Harime Nui fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Nov 30, 2017 |
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Nov 30, 2017 00:50
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I COULD be forgetting, but I'm pretty sure the kaiju are shown to have multiple brains, and are grown/given orders and sent off by their masters but not directly remote-controlled. Same reason Stacker doesn't just sit at base and control a jaeger with a joystick.
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Nov 30, 2017 00:55
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Ferrinus posted:I COULD be forgetting, but I'm pretty sure the kaiju are shown to have multiple brains, and are grown/given orders and sent off by their masters but not directly remote-controlled. Same reason Stacker doesn't just sit at base and control a jaeger with a joystick. I haven't seen it in years but didn't Newt see things like the "factory" through the eyes of one of the alien masters in the drift?
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Nov 30, 2017 01:27
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RBA Starblade posted:I haven't seen it in years but didn't Newt see things like the "factory" through the eyes of one of the alien masters in the drift? Yeah, we got to see the Geiger-esque factories in which kaiju are grown and deployed, but I don't think the implication was that they're just empty suits the alien overlords are wearing from a distance.
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Nov 30, 2017 01:43
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Ferrinus posted:I COULD be forgetting, but I'm pretty sure the kaiju are shown to have multiple brains, and are grown/given orders and sent off by their masters but not directly remote-controlled. Same reason Stacker doesn't just sit at base and control a jaeger with a joystick. This is correct. Each Kaiju is allowed a degree of individuality because, otherwise, the latency would impact their abilities. They are not ‘pure’ drones.
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Nov 30, 2017 01:50
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Oh yeah I didn't mean the Kaiju are organic RCs directed by remote signal. They are, however, purpose-bred and essentially enslaved from birth. The difference is that the Jaeger pilots willfully (joyously) sacrifice their individuality to achieve the goal; the Kaiju have no 'choice,' are traumatized by their very birth, etc. A Kaiju won't stop attacking until it's dead but that is essentially because it's being prodded by some invisible hand. The ironic upshot being "to fight monsters, we created monsters," i.e, the Jaeger pilots are emotionally castrated suicide bombers: the less economical forerunner of the Kaiju (who are from a sort of implied nightmare future)
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Nov 30, 2017 01:51
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Jaeger pilots neither sacrifice their individuality nor are they emotionally castrated. All the Jaeger pairs are close friends and family. Husband and wife, brother and brother, father and son, two potential lovers. If anything that strong emotional bond helps them fight better. They balance the load of piloting the Jaeger between themselves but at no point do they stop being individuals.
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Nov 30, 2017 09:18
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Indeed, Raleigh's emotional castration - maybe too strong a term - comes with the death of his brother and retirement, and his recovery from it coincides with his return to the cockpit with Mako. For that matter, he survives the closest thing to a suicide bombing. It's really more of a pretty risky regular bombing. To the extent that Gipsy Danger is a character, that's the suicide bomber. Jaegers are clearly something separate from the relationship or communication between their pilots. It's something that mediates that relationship, however, and in so doing turns it into an instrument of war. Weaponized love - as monstrous in its own way as Otachi being born pregnant with her own would-be avenger.
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Nov 30, 2017 09:36
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https://youtu.be/n0h0q0zmYHY
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Dec 4, 2017 06:01
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That's a pretty odd definition of trailer.
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Dec 4, 2017 11:53
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Things I do not want to see in a trailer for pacific rim: shots of the actors doing stuntwork outside of their robots.
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Dec 4, 2017 17:11
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kanonvandekempen posted:Things I do not want to see in a trailer for pacific rim: shots of the actors doing stuntwork outside of their robots. What about stunts where they climb up a yeager to get in the cockpit? Start by jumping off a roof only to land on its knee and have rock climb up the spine into the neck.
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Dec 6, 2017 03:07
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Sazabi posted:What about stunts where they climb up a yeager to get in the cockpit? Start by jumping off a roof only to land on its knee and have rock climb up the spine into the neck. This, but with a giant robot: 
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Dec 6, 2017 03:34
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Toshimo posted:This, but with a giant robot: The physics on this are on par with some videogames.
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Dec 6, 2017 13:20
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Olympic Mathlete posted:The physics on this are on par with some videogames. Elves are super-light, so his wrist can easily move his full weight and then some.
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Dec 6, 2017 18:50
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Also, what's fueling all those flames around the Balrog? Some sort of *snort* magic?
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Dec 6, 2017 19:11
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Olympic Mathlete posted:The physics on this are on par with some videogames. However, there are also some problems.
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Dec 6, 2017 19:27
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Legolas ever escalating levels of bullshit acrobatic in the movies was actually good. I just want some Gurren Lagann jaeger in jaeger shenanigans. Or a post credit scene where it inexplicably ties the series to Godzilla.
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Dec 6, 2017 19:34
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If we gonna get all anime can we get anime like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aDphRCyQTg
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Dec 6, 2017 20:16
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They wasted the gestalt concept on the Kaiju instead of the Jagers which would've made more sense. I just wanted to see the Jagers combine to form a super Jager and have a stealth bomber air drop a giant sword into his hands...
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Dec 6, 2017 20:21
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Toshimo posted:If we gonna get all anime can we get anime like this? 08th seems like an odd choice to look for inspiration for a Super Robot movie considering it's one of the grittiest gundams Harime Nui fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Dec 6, 2017 |
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Dec 6, 2017 20:21
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WENTZ WAGON NUI posted:08th seems like an odd choice to look for inspiration for a Super Robot movie considering it's one of the grittiest gundams Maybe, but that fight had more ~weight~ than jumping ninja jaegers from the trailer, which is why I picked it. Even when they move quick, they have an apparent weight to them.
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Dec 6, 2017 20:42
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WENTZ WAGON NUI posted:08th seems like an odd choice to look for inspiration for a Super Robot movie considering it's one of the grittiest gundams In terms of fight choreography, motion, and the sense of weight carried by the robots, it's exactly what live-action mecha should look like, regardless of the tone of the movie. Mecha that are basically just giant metal humans look kind of strange in live-action, as the PR2 trailers are proving.
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Dec 6, 2017 21:46
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Toshimo posted:Maybe, but that fight had more ~weight~ than jumping ninja jaegers from the trailer, which is why I picked it. Even when they move quick, they have an apparent weight to them. Funny to think that Typhoon was by far the most agile mech we saw in the first movie, and it was still a ponderous war machine. Even the big ones in PR2 seem much lighter on their feet. What the previews have really been calling to mind for me are shows like Power Rangers. You know which mech is the leader, excelling at all things. You know which one's the big bruiser who's probably a little slow on his feet and not very bright. You know which one's the girl, swift and graceful but fragile. All we really seem to be lacking is one that looks like it's wearing glasses to play the smart but physically weedy member of the cast.
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Dec 6, 2017 22:22
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Toshimo posted:If we gonna get all anime can we get anime like this? what part of the series is this from? i remember jungle fighting, desert fighting and an exploding mountain, but i really don't recall urban combat.
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Dec 7, 2017 03:26
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