|
I think it's that way for any show's first season; it's usually trying to find its footing and proper pacing.
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2017 22:09
|
|
oh yes oh god yes form the head FORM THE HEAD unghhhh...
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 11:50 |
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEzw6WXCybw Friday's the big reveal. Sweet catharsis (or whatever this is closer to).
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2017 22:49
|
|
|
Ending to Stephen and the Stephens was amazing though and the early episodes still had great stuff like Cat Fingers' akira moment. It's definitely the weakest part of the show but I think it still had some great moments.
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2017 23:15
|
|
|
Yeah, you're crazy if you think S1 was "bad" by any stretch of the imagination. It might not be as story intensive as the later seasons but it was still pretty drat good. I wouldn't mind a return to some of S1's tropes either. Hunting corrupted gems and all that, instead of some of the more overbearing LGBT episodes that while good, can be preachy, and there's only so many ways you can say the same thing over and over again.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2017 23:32
|
|
|
When season 1 came out it was no poo poo one of the most gorgeous animated TV shows I'd ever seen, "ugly art" is a pretty wild take.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2017 23:44
|
|
misadventurous posted:When season 1 came out it was no poo poo one of the most gorgeous animated TV shows I'd ever seen, "ugly art" is a pretty wild take. The backgrounds have always been gorgeous, but the character art and some of the animation could be pretty rough. 
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2017 23:58
|
|
|
Eela6 posted:The backgrounds have always been gorgeous, but the character art and some of the animation could be pretty rough. Well it's not like later seasons were bulletproof. Sword to the Sword had one goof up where they mixed up S1 Amethyst's character design with her second form. Don't know if they fixed that on later airings, but it was there for a time anyway.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2017 00:16
|
|
|
No, Regular Show Pearl is perfect. Although I don't like Pearl's first outfit so much.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2017 00:18
|
|
|
I kind of like that the show starts out simple and dumb and occasionally obnoxious, because so does Steven, and that at least seems to be by design. Makes for a bigger contrast with later seasons. Harder to sell to someone if they don't know that it's going to get better, admittedly.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2017 00:28
|
|
|
misadventurous posted:When season 1 came out it was no poo poo one of the most gorgeous animated TV shows I'd ever seen, "ugly art" is a pretty wild take. Eh, some pretty robust criticisms of the art and animation exist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaR8KO4VFPM&t=1s
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2017 00:31
|
|
|
Season 1 was fine. No need to pull the Andromeda Defense on it just because the latest seasons are lacking, guys and girls.
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2017 00:32
|
|
|
khwarezm posted:Eh, some pretty robust criticisms of the art and animation exist: I can't imagine why somebody would nitpick so goddamn much. It felt like the worst of a John K-styled rant with the sheer dumbness of CinamaSins or Mr. Enter with the voice of Navy. Not to mention she sometimes criticizes the show for superfluous reasons like different proportions, when the comparison is between a closeup of a face and from far away. Pretty sure they're gonna look a little different! There's a lot to counter in a long rear end video from a supposed "animation expert" and I have no experience whatsoever in any of that. It reminds me of that one Riley weirdo who thought this show was racist.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2017 01:43
|
|
|
You gotta do something after film school..
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2017 02:11
|
|
|
Shitenshi posted:I can't imagine why somebody would nitpick so goddamn much. It felt like the worst of a John K-styled rant with the sheer dumbness of CinamaSins or Mr. Enter with the voice of Navy. Not to mention she sometimes criticizes the show for superfluous reasons like different proportions, when the comparison is between a closeup of a face and from far away. Pretty sure they're gonna look a little different! There's a lot to counter in a long rear end video from a supposed "animation expert" and I have no experience whatsoever in any of that. Here's the thing, some of the stuff she mentions (especially the, uh, 'unstable' character sizes and frequently going off-model) matters a lot more to people who work in or study animation, and 9 times out of 10 it's a sign of ineptitude. Having said that I must admit I didn't really notice the stuff she said until it was outright pointed out to me by things like this video, so I do find it a bit ridiculous that the show is all of the sudden being pilloried for stuff like this (it's pretty regular looking for a network animated show of this type and actually a pretty high standard overall for TV animation in general, certainly look at stuff like what you see on Netflix and I'll take SU's sloppiness over their sterility if I'm forced to choose) but it is somewhere the show could be distinctly better on. It already does lots of specific areas very, very well, the backgrounds and use of color are some of my favorites of any show I can think of and they can really nail giving a character a very distinct sense of personality from their movements (I actually couldn't stop thinking while she was showing footage about the action scenes and how they were bad that some of the movements you see for Pearl and Amethyst were really, really good in communicating their specific personalities in a way other shows are rarely able to do, which probably undermined her point a bit) so they really should be able to step up their game with regards to things like staying on-model or having more interesting scene framing.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2017 02:11
|
|
|
The crew has mentioned several times that the characters being off model is an intentional artistic choice. The "fans" can complain all they want but the perfect show they want is not one the creators are interested in making.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2017 02:21
|
|
|
gmq posted:The crew has mentioned several times that the characters being off model is an intentional artistic choice. The "fans" can complain all they want but the perfect show they want is not one the creators are interested in making. Like, that's not really an excuse. Most of the time going off model or loving up sizes adds nothing and is just a sign they didn't care enough to keep track.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2017 02:28
|
|
|
khwarezm posted:Like, that's not really an excuse. Most of the time going off model or loving up sizes adds nothing and is just a sign they didn't care enough to keep track. I think they said somewhere they want to make the movements more flowing, like give it a more whimsical feel. Which, given this is a show about magic gay space rocks, is understandable.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2017 02:31
|
|
|
misadventurous posted:When season 1 came out it was no poo poo one of the most gorgeous animated TV shows I'd ever seen, "ugly art" is a pretty wild take. The backgrounds were always nice, but the characters had really bad proportions and movement was very stiff, the facial expressions were not nearly as good, and the action sequences were...kinda hit or miss? There was good stuff like Opal's scene in Giant Woman and Pearl's general aesthetic and choreography but a lot of it was just not that good-looking. Shitenshi posted:Yeah, you're crazy if you think S1 was "bad" by any stretch of the imagination. It might not be as story intensive as the later seasons but it was still pretty drat good. I wouldn't mind a return to some of S1's tropes either. Hunting corrupted gems and all that, instead of some of the more overbearing LGBT episodes that while good, can be preachy, and there's only so many ways you can say the same thing over and over again.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2017 02:37
|
|
|
The design bible for the show specifically leaves proportions and sizes unspecified. It's not going off-model to be inconsistent on the parts that the model explicitly allows to be inconsistent.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2017 02:40
|
|
|
Peridot is melting at an alarming rate
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2017 02:42
|
|
|
Bongo Bill posted:The design bible for the show specifically leaves proportions and sizes unspecified. It's not going off-model to be inconsistent on the parts that the model explicitly allows to be inconsistent. "But how am I supposed to enjoy the show with all the plot holes that Peridot changing height opens?  #sucritical"
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2017 02:46
|
|
|
so long as they don't draw any of them too thin I don't care.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2017 02:52
|
|
|
Bongo Bill posted:The design bible for the show specifically leaves proportions and sizes unspecified. It's not going off-model to be inconsistent on the parts that the model explicitly allows to be inconsistent. gmq posted:"But how am I supposed to enjoy the show with all the plot holes that Peridot changing height opens? Like, that's basically saying "can't go off model if there is no model *taps head*", like it or not for a lot of people, especially in the animation end of things, it just looks amateurish, that's the issue. I don't care that much about it TBH but after I started studying animation I can see the value of criticisms like that. It's not directed at stuff like the silly faces a character like Pearl or Peridot makes, nobody has a problem with messing around with a character's look to heighten drama or add comedy, but in incidental scenes where people are standing around chatting and otherwise not doing much (with SU has a lot of) this sort of thing where Peridot shrinks randomly for no reason is just unprofessional.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2017 03:01
|
|
|
There is a model.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2017 03:02
|
|
|
I think they just like the freehand storyboard stuff more than consistency.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2017 03:03
|
|
Augus posted:The backgrounds were always nice, but the characters had really bad proportions and movement was very stiff, the facial expressions were not nearly as good, and the action sequences were...kinda hit or miss? There was good stuff like Opal's scene in Giant Woman and Pearl's general aesthetic and choreography but a lot of it was just not that good-looking. Well, there's a reason why I started watching the show just after Jailbreak aired. Funnily enough, Jailbreak is maybe the one fight scene that absolutely fulfills the criteria Robobuddies lays down in her video. khwarezm posted:Like, that's not really an excuse. Most of the time going off model or loving up sizes adds nothing and is just a sign they didn't care enough to keep track. Exactly. Sometimes SU does good things with the inconsistency but maybe 8/10s of the time it's just distracting when characters always look different. And here's a good quote on that sort of topic. T Bone Burnett: It is a joke song, but here's the thing ... even if a song is supposed to be bad in a film, it still has to be great. Because if you put bad music in a film, it's just bad -- then the film's bad. You can put good music in a film and say it's bad and the audience will believe it's bad, but it will still be good and they will still be entertained by it, even though they're told it's bad. And, on top of it, underneath all of that, it really is great. "If you put bad animation in a series, it's just bad -- then the series is bad." Shitenshi posted:I can't imagine why somebody would nitpick so goddamn much. It felt like the worst of a John K-styled rant with the sheer dumbness of CinamaSins or Mr. Enter with the voice of Navy. The video is more intelligent than CinemaSins by far. And really, just about none of it is something people haven't mentioned in this thread before (especially the stuff she gets into about, say, tone and Season 4's general void). And her point about the Cluster arc is extremely valid given that I reckon if you went to the SU Reddit, or talked about it in this thread, you'd get people insisting that surely that arc can't be finished because of how much of a nothing it was. Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Nov 30, 2017 |
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2017 03:04
|
|
|
Bongo Bill posted:The design bible for the show specifically leaves proportions and sizes unspecified. It's not going off-model to be inconsistent on the parts that the model explicitly allows to be inconsistent. I think that's not a big deal, but there are two storyboard artists on the team that I can't stand their designs at all. The pair that did the episode where Peridot contacted Yellow Diamond. I hated the way that episode looked but it has one of the best scenes in the show. I want all episodes to look like It Could Have Been Great
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2017 03:14
|
|
|
Macaluso posted:I think that's not a big deal, but there are two storyboard artists on the team that I can't stand their designs at all. The pair that did the episode where Peridot contacted Yellow Diamond. I hated the way that episode looked but it has one of the best scenes in the show. I want all episodes to look like It Could Have Been Great Yeah, that always gets me too, I hate how that episode looks, except for that infamous Yellow Diamond reaction.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2017 03:16
|
|
|
I usually don't mind the style differences between the boarders and the loosey goosey style of the show most of the time. But I am getting real tired of the chibi proportions a boarder or two uses that have worked their way in more and more frequently. This felt really prominent in Gemcation, where Amethyst and Steven feel like they're two and a half heads tall a lot of the time.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2017 03:22
|
|
|
Milky Moor posted:The video is more intelligent than CinemaSins by far. And really, just about none of it is something people haven't mentioned in this thread before (especially the stuff she gets into about, say, tone and Season 4's general void). And her point about the Cluster arc is extremely valid given that I reckon if you went to the SU Reddit, or talked about it in this thread, you'd get people insisting that surely that arc can't be finished because of how much of a nothing it was. S4 was fine, and that's outside of good stuff like Aquamarine coming to earth, abducting people nonstop. You had Pearl meeting up with another woman and Steven finally coming to terms with his issues. The only thing that was really disappointing I guess was the Zoo arc, but I'll put that on CN advertising the thing out to be a mega special with the Diamonds. You expect more from something if you say it like that, to say nothing of the stupid hiatuses which heightened expectations with each new episode when really they were just intended as standard episodes, same as before. It's not helped by Season 4 and 5 originally intended to be one season. Bubbled feels way more like a season finale than Peridot joining the Crystal Gems ever did if you remember S2 and 3 were originally intended to be one complete season, the same way Jailbreak feels like the proper finale to Season 1 instead of Lapis leaving, the latter of which would have been the case if CN had split that into two seasons. Technically speaking, this is just the third season and it is nowhere close to finishing. It follows the same plot structure as the previous ones too. And anyone who didn't think the power of friendship would stop the Cluster is insane. This is the kind of show it is.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2017 03:28
|
|
|
For some reason the best action scenes are the ugliest, especially Stevonnie vs Jasper
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2017 03:29
|
|
|
gmq posted:For some reason the best action scenes are the ugliest, especially Stevonnie vs Jasper turns out character visual consistency is of lesser importance when they're beating the coprolite out of each other but kinda matters when they're standing around doing dialogue.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2017 03:33
|
|
|
khwarezm posted:Eh, some pretty robust criticisms of the art and animation exist: No this is bad! It's pedantic and annoying and way too long for me to possibly offer a point-by-point, but I do not agree with their conclusions or even their basic philosophy on "good animation"
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2017 03:39
|
|
Shitenshi posted:S4 was fine, and that's outside of good stuff like Aquamarine coming to earth, abducting people nonstop. You had Pearl meeting up with another woman and Steven finally coming to terms with his issues. The only thing that was really disappointing I guess was the Zoo arc, but I'll put that on CN advertising the thing out to be a mega special with the Diamonds. You expect more from something if you say it like that, to say nothing of the stupid hiatuses which heightened expectations with each new episode when really they were just intended as standard episodes, same as before. Why are those bits of 'good stuff' good? Pearl met up with a woman but has that resulted in anything beyond shipping and fan art? Has Steven truly come to terms with his issues and how has that been expressed? quote:It's not helped by Season 4 and 5 originally intended to be one season. Bubbled feels way more like a season finale than Peridot joining the Crystal Gems ever did if you remember S2 and 3 were originally intended to be one complete season, the same way Jailbreak feels like the proper finale to Season 1 instead of Lapis leaving, the latter of which would have been the case if CN had split that into two seasons. Technically speaking, this is just the third season and it is nowhere close to finishing. It follows the same plot structure as the previous ones too. These are excuses. quote:And anyone who didn't think the power of friendship would stop the Cluster is insane. This is the kind of show it is. Oof.
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2017 03:46
|
|
|
The extreme hiatus and bomb format hasn't helped, but there's definitely way too many interesting plot points being left hanging in favour of petty drama. I think the episode where all the Gems expect Steven to have PTSD from crazy poo poo on Homeworld and instead he's just sad that his girlfriend is mad at him almost seems like it's acknowledging that. At least they wrapped up that plot by the end of it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2017 04:10
|
|
|
gmq posted:For some reason the best action scenes are the ugliest, especially Stevonnie vs Jasper Oh god so it wasn't just me that thought Stevonnie looked really crummy during that fight where they're riding Lion?
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2017 04:25
|
|
|
Macaluso posted:I think that's not a big deal, but there are two storyboard artists on the team that I can't stand their designs at all. The pair that did the episode where Peridot contacted Yellow Diamond. I hated the way that episode looked but it has one of the best scenes in the show. I want all episodes to look like It Could Have Been Great Raven left the show after Are You My Dad (and oddly enough was partnered with Zuke on that ep and Room for Ruby). Paul's still on the show though (his four most recent eps were Lion 4 and I Am My Mom with Hilary Florido and The Trial and Back to the Kindergarten with Katie Mitroff)
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2017 04:29
|
|
|
It doesn't need to be a long story arc for it to be good. The other townies have storylines, but they're far from being a big storyline with the same impact as anything Gem-related. Same logic I think. That's not even getting into how Mystery Girl is still relatively new, as opposed to the other characters who have built up precedence by virtue of not only screentime, but also being regular friends and acquaintances. Likewise, Pearl meeting another woman doesn't need to even come up again, it's a good episode because Pearl went wild and it was shown pretty concretely she was gay, if there was any doubt before. It's fun in the moment. Or were you telling me you didn't at all enjoy that episode? That you think it's a problem that it hasn't come up is a problem with the current story, not the episode in itself. Nor does Steven need to concretely address all his issues with all the baggage he has. That's gonna be a long way coming, but they're episodes devoted to character building. That is far from nothing. That's why even after being able to revive Lars, it shows that he's pretty numb to everything when he just writes it off as nothing while casually glossing over that the guy was killed. And singling out what is technically an unfinished third season for criticism is ridiculous. It's not an excuse to say your special pleading about S4's shortcomings is being directed towards half a season, where the technical second half, S5, is still just beginning thanks to CN being morons about their scheduling. I'm beginning to see there's a reason for why people just see you as the Debbie Downer of this thread instead of saying anything meaningful. I mean, for crying out loud, how did you think the Cluster storyline would get resolved? It's a giant monstrosity that proved beyond their capabilities and rightly so considering what little they had going for them in so short a time. Steven managing to stop it through empathy is a breath of relief as opposed to your average cheesy My Little Pony style nonsense.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2017 04:39
|
|
|
yeah, the fact that seasons 4-5 were written as a big season 3 is a legit excuse: Now if you had rebutted that with "okay but a half-season being slow and empty is still pretty bad" instead of dismissing it outright you'd have a bit more of a leg to stand on
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2017 04:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 11:50 |
|
|
Back when I used to study commercial art, we were always taught that we should learn the rules before we could (and should) break them. Sometimes the model inconsistencies work in that regard, but it's understandable why some people would disagree with that design choice or its execution. Personally I hate some of the story boarders' styles, but I like that the variations take the edge off of the hyper-polished artstyle the show goes for in general.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2017 04:48
|
|
