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Absurd Alhazred posted:The first ever Haredi Israeli minister resigned today, in protest of rail work being performed on the Sabbath. The party will remain in the coalition, however.
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Nov 26, 2017 10:06
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Xander77 posted:As in "that's the first haredi minister to ever resign"? Because I'm pretty sure Israeli governments ran on MS-DOS before. Lizman is the first fully-functional Haredi minister in more than 60 years (there apparently was one in the first government, but none since). Between then and Litzman in 2015, they only accepted deputy minister positions, even if they were in effect in charge of the ministries in question. Here's an article about him getting the go-ahead to become a minister, after Yesh Atid went to the Supreme Court over it. Edit: This was that previous minister. Apparently there was a provisional government and then a couple more in rapid succession after the first elections to the Knesset. He resigned in 1952 over the National Service Law for women. I also should have qualified that it refers only to the Ashkenazi Haredi parties, as Shas has never had any issue with having ministers. Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 10:22 on Nov 26, 2017 |
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Nov 26, 2017 10:16
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I also should have qualified that it refers only to the Ashkenazi Haredi parties, as Shas has never had any issue with having ministers.
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Nov 26, 2017 12:34
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Never mind
killmeimmafailure fucked around with this message at 14:08 on Nov 26, 2017 |
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Nov 26, 2017 14:03
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I didn't know Finkelstein and Chomsky were against BDS. Seems counter-intuitive. What does everyone here think?
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Nov 28, 2017 08:00
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Norman thinks BDS is hypocritical in the sense that it makes demands based on International law and UN Resolutions (194, in particular) while simultaneously denying Israel's rights as a sovereign state which is also recognized internationally and based on an equally binding UN resolution. I think Chomsky holds a rather similar view. Both support resolution 194 and the return of the refugees and view Boycott and Sanctions as legitimate non-violent acts, so it's not like they are really against BDS, they just think that the movement needs to clean up and appeal to the international consensus on all fronts. At least that's my understanding. E: I think it's also pretty clear that both Chomsky and Finkelstein strongly oppose boycotting individuals, but officially this is something that the BDS movement itself doesn't sanction so it's a bit of a grey area between "the official BDS movement" and the activists in the field. The upper echelons of the BDS movement harbor a principled approach towards individual boycotts and discrimination against Israelis (who are not state sponsored or officially represent the Israeli state) but de facto activists sometimes do not adhere to these strict principles, yada yada. emanresu tnuocca fucked around with this message at 08:28 on Nov 28, 2017 |
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Nov 28, 2017 08:25
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From what I remember Finkelstein thinks BDS is a cult and is lying about its intentions but never really explained his point as far as I remember. With Chomsky he thinks it's hypocritical to boycott Israel but not other human rights abuses like China or even the USA itself. It's like come on Chomsky, that doesn't work if the situations aren't comparable. For instance no-one is going to boycott China or the USA because that's where our goods and media come from. Tactically it'd be a disaster.
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Nov 28, 2017 18:40
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https://vimeo.com/36854424 Seems we're both correct.
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Nov 28, 2017 19:12
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Boycotting weaker states instead of stronger states is not a great ethical stance. It should be 100% proportional to the harm caused.
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Nov 29, 2017 02:10
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What is the scope for boycotting and sanctioning the settlements in the West Bank and Jerusalem directly, as well as the organisations and commercial interests in Israel that support them? This would be an approach that is compatible with binding UN resolutions that respect Israel's right to exist, in a two-state solution. Of course, I realise that there are some in the BDS movement that may be single-state absolutists, so perhaps this is not possible?
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Nov 29, 2017 03:04
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Can't someone be for boycotting Israeli industry but not be part of the "official" BDS movement and their supposed goals?
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Nov 29, 2017 18:37
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Lord_Adonis posted:binding UN resolutions that respect Israel's right to exist, in a two-state solution.
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Nov 29, 2017 19:41
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There is a call for an oppressed ethnic group for a boycott, so boycotting is showing solidarity with that group. If other oppressed groups were to make the same calls against their oppressors, for instance the way Black South Africans did, then boycotting is also the way to show solidarity, too. The fact that it is being called for by the oppressed is sufficient.
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Nov 30, 2017 03:34
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Lord_Adonis posted:What is the scope for boycotting and sanctioning the settlements in the West Bank and Jerusalem directly, as well as the organisations and commercial interests in Israel that support them? This would be an approach that is compatible with binding UN resolutions that respect Israel's right to exist, in a two-state solution. Of course, I realise that there are some in the BDS movement that may be single-state absolutists, so perhaps this is not possible? Maybe if your'e painfully ignorant of a subject you should just stop posting about it instead of suggesting really embarrassing and sometimes offensive solutions?
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Nov 30, 2017 05:29
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Gozinbulx posted:Can't someone be for boycotting Israeli industry but not be part of the "official" BDS movement and their supposed goals? Uhm, yes? I mean, you got my blessing.
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Nov 30, 2017 08:03
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Maybe if your'e painfully ignorant of a subject you should just stop posting about it instead of suggesting really embarrassing and sometimes offensive solutions? I don't see why everyone involved can't convert to *rolls dice* Shinto.
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Nov 30, 2017 08:12
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Gozinbulx posted:Can't someone be for boycotting Israeli industry but not be part of the "official" BDS movement and their supposed goals? So, yes.
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Nov 30, 2017 08:47
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team overhead smash posted:From what I remember Finkelstein thinks BDS is a cult and is lying about its intentions but never really explained his point as far as I remember. It's also worth mentioning that Chomsky has moderated his stance considerably : quote:‘I am opposed to any appearance in Israel that is used for nationalistic or other propaganda purposes to cover up its occupation and denial of Palestinian human rights. I’ve been involved in activities to hold Israel accountable for its international law violations since before the BDS movement took shape. While I have some tactical differences with the BDS movement, I strongly support the actions and continue to participate in them.’ I guess maybe he learned how boycotts work and that they're not started by well-meaning Westerners who sit around around a table and decide "Who's the worst human rights offender in the world? Let's boycott them!" but rather that they come about when the people and organizations affected by and struggling against an injustice decide that calling for a boycott is a tactic which could advance their cause and are thus dependent on the opinions of the oppressed group (and their representatives) and the specific circumstances of their struggle. quote:E: I think it's also pretty clear that both Chomsky and Finkelstein strongly oppose boycotting individuals, but officially this is something that the BDS movement itself doesn't sanction so it's a bit of a grey area between "the official BDS movement" and the activists in the field. The upper echelons of the BDS movement harbor a principled approach towards individual boycotts and discrimination against Israelis (who are not state sponsored or officially represent the Israeli state) but de facto activists sometimes do not adhere to these strict principles, yada yada. The BDS movement (even if I don't like that appellation) targets institutions for boycott, not individuals. There are, however, important exceptions: for one thing, if the individual is "representing the state of Israel or a complicit Israeli institution (such as a dean, rector, or president), or is commissioned/recruited to participate in Israel’s efforts to 'rebrand' itself, then her/his activities are subject to the institutional boycott the BDS movement is calling for." There's also common-sense boycotts of individuals for those whose conduct is considered reprehensible(for an instance, an IDF war criminal) but again, it's the conduct that makes the person a target for a common-sense boycott, not their Israeli citizenship. I haven't heard of BDS supporters urging that individuals be boycotted simply for being Israeli; in every case of which I'm aware, the individual targeted had either committed human rights abuses, fundraised for human rights abusers or spouted hateful and racist rhetoric towards Palestinians or Muslims. FreshlyShaven fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Nov 30, 2017 |
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Nov 30, 2017 17:16
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team overhead smash posted:From what I remember Finkelstein thinks BDS is a cult and is lying about its intentions but never really explained his point as far as I remember. "We can't boycott people if it means we don't get access to things we want"
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Nov 30, 2017 18:32
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Mans posted:"We can't boycott people if it means we don't get access to things we want" It's more like "boycotting the world's second largest economy is an exercise in futility and will do nothing to advance the democratic/Tibetan/Uighur cause." There's also the fact that no major organization representing Tibetans, Uighurs, dissidents or other victims of the PRC's human rights abuses have called for a boycott.
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Nov 30, 2017 20:41
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Good thing the boycott isn't about China and trying to use China as an example is useless then.
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Nov 30, 2017 21:40
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https://twitter.com/JessicaMontell/status/937040461071634432 https://twitter.com/Elizrael/status/937048039872778240
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Dec 2, 2017 20:56
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Ah. I was wondering why Netanyahu was still around.
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Dec 2, 2017 23:30
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LOL Let's see what main headlines these two newspapers have for Sunday morning (start of the work week in Israel): Israel Hayom, left: "Reports: Israel attacks Iranian base near Damascus/'We won't let Iran establish itself in Syria" Yediot Aharonot, right: "Tens of thousands protest in Tel Aviv against 'Bibi Laws'/March of shame"
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Dec 3, 2017 09:05
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Absurd Alhazred posted:
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Dec 3, 2017 12:05
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imo it is a disgrace to the people that nobody has assassinated bibi yet
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Dec 3, 2017 12:10
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he's not even israeli, he is from philadelphia, he is a loving american trust fund bougie softboy who almost definitely lit fires, wet the bed and tortured animals as a child, pretending to be an old testament king and not even one of the entertaining ones
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Dec 3, 2017 12:11
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put him to the loving sword already
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Dec 3, 2017 12:14
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and it can't be me who puts him to the sword because i'm barred from israel for life
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Dec 3, 2017 12:15
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Are there unironic users of the (((globalist))) meme in Israel itself? And no, I don't mean among the Arab and Druze minorities.
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Dec 3, 2017 12:30
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Cat Mattress posted:Are there unironic users of the (((globalist))) meme in Israel itself? And no, I don't mean among the Arab and Druze minorities.
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Dec 3, 2017 12:54
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when bibi's son posted all that altright pepe poo poo i felt like i was going mad
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Dec 3, 2017 12:55
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what does it even mean to be a jew anymore?
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Dec 3, 2017 12:57
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what the gently caress are we even here for if we're going to do all this stupid poo poo is what i want to know
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Dec 3, 2017 12:58
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are we even achieving a net good for the world at the moment
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Dec 3, 2017 12:58
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i mean i am this weird extremely isolated jew due to the unique circumstances of my upbringing, but in between israel and hollywood it's just like, i don't recognise these people. i don't want to be connected with them anymore. they're nothing like the people i know. they've evolved, and in the wrong directions. they are post-jews, floating off into nothingness like a lost carnival balloon
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Dec 3, 2017 13:00
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and if any of you have family in israel you should probably try to persuade them to migrate away within the next six months or so (i'm aware this can't be done)
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Dec 3, 2017 13:31
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The fact that people are protesting the corruption shows how healthy Israeli governance is. Imagine this happening in any of the neighboring countries or the PA.
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Dec 3, 2017 21:36
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Pantsbird posted:The fact that people are protesting the corruption shows how healthy Israeli governance is. Yep, when Palestinians protest they get violently repressed by Israel (also Arab Spring, fucko)
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Dec 3, 2017 21:43
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Pantsbird posted:The fact that people are protesting the corruption shows how healthy Israeli governance is. That's what a Jewish-Democracy means, it's democratic if you're jewish.
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Dec 3, 2017 21:53
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