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jfc i went to michael shermer's twitter and he's one of these "free speech" guys. never have heroes, kids.
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Dec 2, 2017 01:04
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Groovelord Neato posted:jfc i went to michael shermer's twitter and he's one of these "free speech" guys. never have heroes, kids. *Looks him up, never having heard him before.* Are there any people from the Nu-Atheist Movement that aren't shitheels? Also, we have established that Nu-Atheism is just conservatism that rejects religion. Right?
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Dec 2, 2017 03:28
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BigRed0427 posted:*Looks him up, never having heard him before.* does zinnia jones qualify? she doesn't really do atheism stuff anymore, though I think the relatively normal people split off into the "atheism plus" crowd a while back. no idea what happened to them after that, though
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Dec 2, 2017 05:03
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noether posted:does zinnia jones qualify? she doesn't really do atheism stuff anymore, though Did not know that. Only know her through her trans stuff. She pretty much just does academic research and porn these days. Right?
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Dec 2, 2017 05:10
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BigRed0427 posted:Did not know that. Only know her through her trans stuff. She pretty much just does academic research and porn these days. Right? she does porn? but yeah, most of the stuff on her channel from like 2007-2009 is atheism-related stuff
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Dec 2, 2017 05:13
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noether posted:she does porn? Eyep.
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Dec 2, 2017 05:20
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Coughlin's still around and is just the same as ever, smart and funny if a little bit incoherent at points. I've heard the AronRa is still around and never jumped on the regressive boat like a lot of his contemporaries, but I never bothered to check, he was always a little dry for my tastes. noether posted:she does porn? I see shitlords try to dunk on her by bringing up her porn, but she freely advertises it and it's just so sad when they keep bringing it up as an own. She's pretty alright if at times teeth-grindingly liberal. She's still very, very behind Hilary.
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Dec 2, 2017 06:33
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Mr Interweb posted:How the hell is Peterson so successful? I mean, he's like THE most successful alt-right pandering youtuber (that's not already a well known factor like Alex Jones, etc.) in history. The amount of money he collects on his patreon far surpasses that of even Sargon. And yet, the main source of his claim to fame is that he...didn't want to use certain pronouns for transgender people. I think Peterson's success among the alt-right and related is that they view him as someone trying to help them find purpose in their lives while also being "one of the good ones" in academia. There is a clip from The Majority Report that talks about that the appeal of Joe Rogan among alt-right adjacent groups is that his show gives the listener a sense of community for self-improvement. Peterson seems to have that aspect of Rogan in addition to the "mature professor dispensing insight and fighting against the system" that his fans seem to see in him. This makes sense if you think of young men looking for something great and feel cheated out of it, i.e. those susceptible to the alt-right. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJsGmAjje3Y Mundrial Mantis fucked around with this message at 06:39 on Dec 2, 2017 |
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Dec 2, 2017 06:35
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While only tangentially related to the types of people usually discussed in this thread, Alan Melikdjanian (Captain Disillusion) did a talk recently at a Skeptic conference and some of it is very relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqfWm6z84t0 Maybe avoid the comments, even though the ratio is somehow fine. A lot of his fans don't seem aware he's kind of talking to them.
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Dec 2, 2017 06:44
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Mundrial Mantis posted:I think Peterson's success among the alt-right and related is that they view him as someone trying to help them find purpose in their lives while also being "one of the good ones" in academia. There is a clip from The Majority Report that talks about that the appeal of Joe Rogan among alt-right adjacent groups is that his show gives the listener a sense of community for self-improvement. Peterson seems to have that aspect of Rogan in addition to the "mature professor dispensing insight and fighting against the system" that his fans seem to see in him. This makes sense if you think of young men looking for something great and feel cheated out of it, i.e. those susceptible to the alt-right. zero books has a (critical) series on him.
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Dec 2, 2017 06:49
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SteelMentor posted:Coughlin's still around and is just the same as ever, smart and funny if a little bit incoherent at points. The human condition: consuming vast amounts of porn but thinking that demeans the people who make it and not them whacking off to it. To be clear I don't think either is demeaning in concept (the actual porn industry is horrific but it needn't be) but these guys sure love sex while using slut as an insult.
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Dec 2, 2017 08:57
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BigRed0427 posted:*Looks him up, never having heard him before.* it sucks rear end also cuz he wrote one of the best books about holocaust denial https://www.amazon.com/Denying-History-Holocaust-Happened-Expanded/dp/0520260988 it's so good i own the original and expanded versions.
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Dec 2, 2017 12:11
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Groovelord Neato posted:it sucks rear end also cuz he wrote one of the best books about holocaust denial https://www.amazon.com/Denying-History-Holocaust-Happened-Expanded/dp/0520260988 Shermer’s almost certainly a rapist. There are multiple stories of him trying to get women falling-down drunk and take them back to his hotel at events where he speaks.
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Dec 2, 2017 13:00
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So uh...Destiny has new video up where he debates Amos Yee about pedophilia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uw9NWF7Z6w I'm three minutes in and Yee says that children of 2 to 3 years old can engage in sex, but in terms of actual penetration, he's willing to wait until they're 7. I stopped the video after that. 
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Dec 2, 2017 13:10
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Holy poo poo Yee sounds like a kiddy fiddling garden gnome.
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Dec 2, 2017 13:21
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I'm not sure I can rejig my brain into a sufficiently low gear to begin to address that argument.
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Dec 2, 2017 13:30
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It's real telling the chuds are focusing on (out of context, misinterpreted) things Destiny said in this debate and using them to attack him instead of maybe going after the guy he was debating, the Dude Who Literally Thinks It's Morally Okay To gently caress Babies.
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Dec 2, 2017 13:33
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Pretty sure even if someone came to me with a 100% foolproof plan to do full communism now, I wouldn't sign off on it if it included the rider "also I get to gently caress babies"
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Dec 2, 2017 13:35
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business hammocks posted:Shermer’s almost certainly a rapist. There are multiple stories of him trying to get women falling-down drunk and take them back to his hotel at events where he speaks. i'll just pretend the co-author wrote the whole thing from now on. amos yee might be the most broken brained human alive. also lol 
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Dec 2, 2017 13:35
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Mr Interweb posted:So uh...Destiny has new video up where he debates Amos Yee about pedophilia: I made it six and a half mins in before I just felt too sick to continue. If Yee isn't a troll (and I have to believe he is) then he is a fundamentally broken human being.
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Dec 2, 2017 13:49
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Is Yee an idiot who’s just doing this poo poo like a kid who eats worms because he likes the attention, or is he a rapist of children?
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Dec 2, 2017 13:51
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the latter. he thinks informed consent doesn't matter. edit: destiny is really bad at this. Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Dec 2, 2017 |
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Dec 2, 2017 13:53
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bebaloorpabopalo posted:It's real telling the chuds are focusing on (out of context, misinterpreted) things Destiny said in this debate and using them to attack him instead of maybe going after the guy he was debating, the Dude Who Literally Thinks It's Morally Okay To gently caress Babies.
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Dec 2, 2017 14:12
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Destiny and Amos debate, unfortunately for Destiny, Amos is making the same argument for pedophilia's moral neutrality as he himself did for incest just a couple of weeks before. So it's awkward to see him try to make arguments against, basically, himself and failing pretty hard.
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Dec 2, 2017 14:19
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yeah. i wanna punch amos yee through a wall because consent is only acceptable when it's informed consent. edit: hahah amos thinks children should be able to sign contracts and vote. also thinks it's immoral to give a child a cigarette or have them sign a one-sided contract. but not rape them. hmmm. Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Dec 2, 2017 |
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Dec 2, 2017 14:21
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Monglo posted:Destiny and Amos debate, unfortunately for Destiny, Amos is making the same argument for pedophilia's moral neutrality as he himself did for incest just a couple of weeks before. So it's awkward to see him try to make arguments against, basically, himself and failing pretty hard. Yeah. I'm usually good about watching vile stuff to the end, but this seemed so weaselly, smug and dumb that I started skipping ahead, and it just got worse. "So, if someone REALLY likes to rape, a utilitarian mindset would have to let them rape, because they get more pleasure out of it than other people get out of NOT being raped!" And that's Destiny, not Yee. Truly, the way to defeat any libertarian is to go for maximum monstrosity, since they only feel the fire if you try to help someone and will twist into a knot to excuse actual abuse.
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Dec 2, 2017 14:25
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that was my problem with destiny's stance. even if we lived in a society where pedophilia was deemed permissible it'd still be wrong because a child cannot consent. if we lived in a society where rape was permissible it'd still be wrong because the person being raped is being harmed. slavery was still morally wrong when it was socially permissible because it was harmful to the enslaved. and he shouldn't just drop the study stuff - all evidence shows it to be psychologically harmful and yee keeps saying no no all the evidence shows it's beneficial.
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Dec 2, 2017 14:29
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Destiny did a weird strawman of starting to argue utilitarianism at the end, if I remember correctly. He asked if Amos considered himself a utilitarianist and if his pro-pedophilia stance comes from it. And then proceeded to do the usual deconstructive thought experiments against it. But the problem is, Amos admitted to not even knowing about utilitarianism and even though he subscribed to it after Destiny's quick explanation of what it is, it was a strange way to argue against pedophilia by attaching the label of utilitarianism to it and attacking that. I'm usually satisfied with how Destiny holds himself in his debates but I find he failed to make a convincing argument for pedophilia's immorality. Unfortunately, there is only a single point to made for it, as far as I see it - that it's universally harmful to the child. Destiny conceded that that's not always the case. Just curious, for people who checked that debate out. What arguments would you use? Monglo fucked around with this message at 14:41 on Dec 2, 2017 |
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Dec 2, 2017 14:37
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having a debate is useless with yee because he cannot grasp that the only consent is informed consent. he also kept lying about child abuse not being harmful and kept making a distinction between child abuse and consensual adult-child relationships (there's no distinction, they're the same). his stance is indefensible.
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Dec 2, 2017 14:40
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Monglo posted:What arguments would you use? "Children are incapable of consenting to sexual acts" You know, because they're CHILDREN.
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Dec 2, 2017 14:41
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Devil's advocate: but children can't give an informed consent about most things. And are subjected to thing daily, that they actively give no consent to.
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Dec 2, 2017 14:44
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Monglo posted:Devil's advocate: This is not a loving road you want to go down, dude.
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Dec 2, 2017 14:46
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those things are not psychologically harmful and usually don't violate bodily autonomy. it's always weird to me how these people act like sex is the same as walking down to the store. edit: lol how has he never heard of the trolley problem. Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Dec 2, 2017 |
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Dec 2, 2017 14:46
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Monglo posted:Devil's advocate: but children can't give an informed consent about most things. And are subjected to thing daily, that they actively give no consent to. Do you honestly not get how sex is different from most things?
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Dec 2, 2017 14:51
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On the other hand feeding children is necessary for their continued survival, loving them is not.
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Dec 2, 2017 14:58
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I thought an interesting discussion on the merits of arguments made in the Destiny's debate and general arguments against pedophilia might be had, but if only responses people here are capable of are personal attacks, then forget about it.
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Dec 2, 2017 15:00
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Hey don't get mad at me I'm just devil's advocating for pedophilia cos y'know I'm not sure everyone here is philosophically rigorous in their dislike of it.
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Dec 2, 2017 15:03
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Monglo posted:I thought an interesting discussion on the merits of arguments made in the Destiny's debate and general arguments against pedophilia might be had, but if only responses people here are capable of are personal attacks, then forget about it. Literally no one personally attacked you unless you consider Goon Danton posted:This is not a loving road you want to go down, dude. an attack.
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Dec 2, 2017 15:05
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Monglo posted:Devil's advocate: but children can't give an informed consent about most things. And are subjected to thing daily, that they actively give no consent to. That’s the point, silly billy: children literally can’t consent to anything. That’s why adults have to look after them and make choices about what it in their best interests. loving adults is never in their best interests. Look at what it did to Milo Yianoppolous.
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Dec 2, 2017 15:06
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OwlFancier posted:Hey don't get mad at me I'm just devil's advocating for pedophilia cos y'know I'm not sure everyone here is philosophically rigorous in their dislike of it. calmhitler.jpg
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Dec 2, 2017 15:06
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