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hey girl you up posted:At least do me the courtesy of a throwaway line and some action on the party's part FF7 made a serious misstep there. Perhaps making it worse, there was a throwaway line but it was not only part of a completely separate scene, it's also either optional or outright dummied out. Zangan notes that when he was carrying Tifa away from the Nibelheim massacre, he had to use a lot of heal spells on her because her injuries were resisting the magic and reopening. On the other hand, even if the Masamune leaves wounds that don't heal, Aeris wasn't killed with the real Masamune, so...
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Nov 30, 2017 23:08
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. "Oh no, the antidote isn't working 
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I think we're all at the point where we and the characters understand that phoenix downs have a limit, and we don't have to have a conversation about it in every RPG. And, in that scene, Aeris, Cloud, and the audience got punked hard. There was no time to react, and I believe in that moment that Cloud is too shocked to act and too broken to know what to do. Here, the characters barely acknowledge the situation at all. "Dead?" "Yup. Died in agony. Probably poison." "Poison... but when?" Dude dies hideously in front of them and Edea's simply glancing over, pondering the timeline of events. I get that we've got a party of coldblooded killers here, but it's like they're the player, watching the game play out a murder scene for them to solve. This is the same party that just almost collectively threw themselves into a volcano, one by one, to save a single child, so it's not like they don't care.
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Dec 2, 2017 06:57
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Maybe they went into survival mode, trying to stop the killer before they killed them all. Or maybe writers did not care.
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Dec 2, 2017 08:54
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hey girl you up posted:Dude dies hideously in front of them and Edea's simply glancing over, pondering the timeline of events. I get that we've got a party of coldblooded killers here, but it's like they're the player, watching the game play out a murder scene for them to solve. This game suffers from a bad case of... I want to say mood dissonance? As you say, the party's attitudes vary wildly from scene to scene. Their characters change to service whatever the plot needs to be at that moment. One of my big questions with this game, which I'm hoping the LP can help with, is whether the game's writers achieved what they intended. That scene with Agnes crying due to being pressured into wearing a sexy outfit -- was that meant to be awkward, or was it intended as funny? Agnes the character has a strict set of boundaries which the game usually respects, yet the game's promotional art mostly consists of Agnes in skimpy outfits the character would hate. Similarly, the characters say they're horrified by war, but the whole Shieldbearer/Swordbearer conflict -- especially the canary boys part -- is treated with this odd, clinical distance, despite the characters supposedly being in the middle of it. This game's thematic inconsistencies are nothing new, but I think they're a particularly egregious case. We'll have to get further in before we can really dig into the full extent of it, though. In the meantime, I'm happy to see other people mulling over the plot and characters. Video games may have a history of low standards for storytelling, but there's no reason we shouldn't expect more. Greyarc fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Dec 3, 2017 |
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Dec 3, 2017 00:41
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My personal opinion is that attempts to explain why game mechanics dont apply to cutscenes tend to wind up way worse than just deciding that game mechanics and the story world are seperate. When the game features a theoretical limitless ability to undo death there's no way to acknowledge that in story without winding up looking goofy as all hell
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Dec 3, 2017 02:02
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Greyarc posted:That scene with Agnes crying due to being pressured into wearing a sexy outfit -- was that meant to be awkward, or was it intended as funny? Agnes the character has a strict set of boundaries which the game usually respects, yet the game's promotional art mostly consists of Agnes in skimpy outfits the character would hate. Similarly, the characters say they're horrified by war, but the whole Shieldbearer/Swordbearer conflict -- especially the canary boys part -- is treated with this odd, clinical distance, despite the characters supposedly being in the middle of it. Part of the problem is outright the 'have your cake and eat it to' method to how most sidequests, including the all important ones of 'actually defeating the enemy and taking their asterisks' are optional. Another part is the standard gameplay/story segregation the writers/devs intentionally ignored by not acknowledging the different costumes you can put the characters in while job changing. It would be pretty neat if they did have something in the game to show that (either dialogue written/voiced of each character's preference for an outfit or a short animation of the same, IE Agnes blushing/hugging herself in embaressment, Tiz wondering WTF his crazy hat doodads do, Ringabel moonwalking, Edea flexing etc.) but alas they didn't, so for all intents and purposes the writing treats everyone as if they're in their default outfits. The Bravo Bikini skit is weird. I'd call it satirical in terms of 'hey Agnes, you said you'd do anything to save your friend right? then get (effectively) naked in front of an audience!' types of situations. But that's me reading between the lines.
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Dec 3, 2017 02:05
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Final Fantasy 5 still has my favourite implementation of it, where all the curatie and revival spells and items simply don't work because the guy in question had just finished powering through an entire boss fight at 0 hp.
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Dec 3, 2017 02:07
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Pureauthor posted:Final Fantasy 5 still has my favourite implementation of it, where all the curatie and revival spells and items simply don't work because the guy in question had just finished powering through an entire boss fight at 0 hp. The important part of that scene is that they tried. Like in FF2/4 there's TONS of instances of characters using their magic to do things outside of battle. It's one of the best gameplay/story integrated RPG's I've ever played. If they try and it doesn't work then it doesn't work. If they never try it at all it breaks immersion whenever you think to ask the question 'why didn't they use x?' (This may not be immediate depending on how well the event pulls you in.)
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Dec 3, 2017 02:13
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Yeah, the massive tonal shifts are one of the more noticeable quirks of this series... Especially later on in the story. I still love them all the same, but some of the later moments get really jarring, and that's compared to what we've seen so far (I.E. going from shenanigans with the contest to Victoria the murderous... fox... child... furry?)
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Dec 3, 2017 02:28
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Pureauthor posted:Final Fantasy 5 still has my favourite implementation of it, where all the curatie and revival spells and items simply don't work because the guy in question had just finished powering through an entire boss fight at 0 hp. EponymousMrYar posted:If they try and it doesn't work then it doesn't work.  You don't have to explain why in this instance magic isn't going to work. It's magic, you don't have to explain poo poo. You do have to explain, though, why the party doesn't even try, because that's not how human beings work. I don't care if they know it would be futile, because that's not how human beings work. This situation is totally because of the ninja girl, isn't it? She has kidnapped/killed the commander's wife and is now posing as her. Comedy option, she's posing as the commander. VVVVVVVVVV true, I had not thought about Kage Bunshin shenanigans. Omobono fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Dec 3, 2017 |
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Dec 3, 2017 02:30
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No, the comedy option is that she's somehow posing as them both. At the same time.
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Dec 3, 2017 02:32
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I have serious issues with the writing - but not now. Those points will come up later, when we get to the Earth crystal, but I seriously have a huge problem with that part. Actually those issues kind of blind me, I really can't stomach them, so I didn't register all of the other writing strangeness. Like this murder mystery. I did enjoy it though. Figuring out who killed random maid was fun, even if we were all cool customers about it.
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Dec 3, 2017 15:45
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Omobono posted:This situation is totally because of the ninja girl, isn't it? She has kidnapped/killed the commander's wife and is now posing as her. FoolyCharged posted:My personal opinion is that attempts to explain why game mechanics dont apply to cutscenes tend to wind up way worse than just deciding that game mechanics and the story world are seperate. Omobono posted:You don't have to explain why in this instance magic isn't going to work. It's magic, you don't have to explain poo poo. I mean, I know that the answer is, "There wasn't enough time/money/attention/drive/whatever to do it right." Blademaster_Aio posted:Actually [later] issues kind of blind me, I really can't stomach them, so I didn't register all of the other writing strangeness. Greyarc posted:This game suffers from a bad case of... I want to say mood dissonance? As you say, the party's attitudes vary wildly from scene to scene. Their characters change to service whatever the plot needs to be at that moment. One of my big questions with this game, which I'm hoping the LP can help with, is whether the game's writers achieved what they intended. And it seems to have a bit of an identity crisis: is it a cutesy-looking, pun-laden critical commentary where the enemies exploit societal issues as weapons, or is it a broad comedy where Ringabel is a lecher and the girls are objectified? You really can't have it both ways, or you end up with serious tonal/mood dissonances. The game might be able to pull a really deft move in act 3 to reconcile everything, but I don't see it coming. I know I've been one of the more negative posters here, but I'm not following this thread out of some hate-read or something. If I wasn't interested in this game, I'd have ditched this thread a while ago. The characters, story, and systems all interest me. The story has real potential - and then every third update game does something that throws a cold bucket of water at me as a reader.
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Dec 4, 2017 03:29
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hey girl you up posted:Yeah, I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here, but my point is not, "Why didn't they use antidotes, those cure poison and should work here." My point is, "Why didn't they try to do anything at all, like use an antidote, rather than just stand there and watch the guy die." Re read the scene. They have enough time to ask, "dude are you ok?" before he falls over dead. Ringabel immediately reacts by checking his vitals, which is what you do with an unconscious person and past that point they know hes dead. e: There is a serious change in the feel of the plot and the characters, but it's more that they've fallen into an old school murder mystery and have had their personalities changed to match. I can't really see ringabel coldly taking peoples vitals and declaring their fate elsewhere, as he's a pretty passionate character. FoolyCharged fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Dec 4, 2017 |
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Dec 4, 2017 03:37
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FoolyCharged posted:I can't really see ringabel coldly taking peoples vitals and declaring their fate elsewhere, as he's a pretty passionate character. It's not really out of character as to how he's been presented so far. Greyarc posted:
Compared to the rest of the party, Ringabel is typically the most composed when it comes to harsher stuff like this.
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Dec 4, 2017 04:37
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A lot of the tone problems in Bravely Default come from being a deliberate throwback to 16-bit JRPGs which... similarly mostly suffered from the same tonal dissonance. I mean, Final Fantasy 4 had a pair of kid wizards cracking wise against a disguised enemy and, two scenes later, had them perform a heartfelt tragic sacrifice to prevent a dying villain's last-ditch attack from crushing the party. The main reason it sticks out more in Bravely Default is 2012 production values and two decades of improved writing and translation and it just stands out more when these scenes are playing out through dozens of lines of dialog, some of which are even voice acted, instead of maybe ten to fifteen text boxes written by a Japanese game programmer and questionably translated to English making up the entire scene. Annnd..., yeah, Bravely Default kinda suffers for it. It's a charming game, but it's story beats are not great once you start thinking about things as a whole and not just a bunch of scenes taken at face-value when they happen and not dwelled on and.... and... ...we can talk about exactly why that fails this game specifically so very badly later when it's time to really call this game's tone out. As for the Bravo Bikini scene that keeps getting called out, THAT one stems from cultural differences affecting what is or isn't acceptable for humor, especially on the sexual front- This is the same Japan that, in the new Dragonball series, had Master Roshi win a fight through implying the intent of sexual assault against a female opponent and played it entirely for laughs. This year. It isn't tonal dissonance- it was intended to be entirely humorous, with Agnes' distressed reaction being part of the 'joke.' Sexual humor with unwilling victims is something that seems to have not picked up the same stigma in Japan it has in a lot of the western world over the last ten years, although I don't know nearly enough about Japanese culture to read anything into it. It's more a problem in localization, and one that probably wasn't quite as obviously problematic in 2012 as it is now. Mr. Locke fucked around with this message at 09:46 on Dec 4, 2017 |
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Dec 4, 2017 09:42
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There are a lot of extremely distasteful things in games that are sometimes considered 'humor'. In Persona 4 there is a scene in which it's basically mixed bath time / male bath time (dunno which), so the guys go to take the bath. However the girls are already in the bath and predictably they throw things at them. This is not funny no matter what (it is one of my most hated video game scenes) and I am forever glad the latest persona game had no hotsprings. So clearly what falls in the realm of funny is sometimes beyond us. Maybe it's more of a reality vs video games thing too. ...the world of video games and anime is also full of double standards.
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Dec 4, 2017 15:53
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Blademaster_Aio posted:In Persona 4 there is a scene in which it's basically mixed bath time / male bath time (dunno which), so the guys go to take the bath. However the girls are already in the bath and predictably they throw things at them. This is not funny no matter what (it is one of my most hated video game scenes) and I am forever glad the latest persona game had no hotsprings. What happened was it was the males' turn to bathe. But the girls had misread the time of when their turn was and were already in there. So, as you said, they proceed to yell at the boys and throw things at them, chasing them out of the hot spring. Then Yukiko realizes that it was actually the boys' turn to bathe. The girls proceed to stay in the bath anyway for BOTH periods and make no attempt to apologize, even after Yosuke later finds out they were in the right.
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Dec 4, 2017 17:26
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Compared to the rest of the party, Ringabel is typically the most composed when it comes to harsher stuff like this. He's the only member of the party that feels, to me, like kind of an adult. Unfortunately he yo-yos so hard between serious and goofball that it's easy to forget that sometimes.
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Dec 4, 2017 17:39
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Greyarc posted:This game suffers from a bad case of... I want to say mood dissonance? As you say, the party's attitudes vary wildly from scene to scene. Their characters change to service whatever the plot needs to be at that moment. One of my big questions with this game, which I'm hoping the LP can help with, is whether the game's writers achieved what they intended. Dissonant is one way to put it. I didn't know what to expect from this game until I started reading the LP and it certainly wasn't a costume party with heavy-handed morality and comically violent psychopaths being murdered for their costumes. The examinations of whether or not the writing is successful at whatever it is that it is trying to do are my favorite part of the LP so far. Looking forward to finding out how the butler did it next update!
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Dec 4, 2017 21:40
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Entry 64: The Adventure of the Dead Man's Banquet, Part 2 Quick note, the characters will sometimes switch outfits during this section. Just pretend they're playing with asterisks between scenes. D's Journal: Shieldbearer Cdr Daniel Goodman posted:When Officer Steiner was poisoned it placed suspicion firmly on the commander's wife, and she was confined to the dungeon below. Then, all of a sudden, the lights in the residence went out and a scream was heard! Someone had murdered the Shieldbearer Officer Savish Neuer. D's Journal: Shieldbearer Officer Savish Neuer posted:After her colleague Officer Steiner was killed, Officer Neuer became hysterical. Then the lights went out suddenly, and when they came on again, Officer Neuer lay slain!  One by one, those in the house have died. Only the Goodmans and the party remain.  Desperate for answers, the party goes to the cellar to question the imprisoned Eleanor...   Have you been here the whole time? Y-yes... Let's look for a hidden passage. A hidden passage? What are you talking about? I'm so confused...While Ringabel questions the suspect, the rest of the party searches the room for clues.  I know nothing of any hidden passage. I believe you are telling the truth. But that means we have a bigger problem. If you are innocent, then it must mean that Commander Goodman is the killer.  Only because there is nobody else it could be. The four of us have stayed together the whole time, so we cannot be responsible. The only other survivors here are you and your husband... Right before Neuer breathed her last, she indicated her killer was a woman. That makes you the only suspect... But I can't see any way out of here. There must be. Otherwise, who could be the culprit? There are no other women here, except...Ringabel falls silent.  Wait! How could we be so stupid?  We have made a fatal error! We must return to Commander Goodman at once! With not a moment to lose, the party races upstairs, just in time to find...  The servant Nastassja, alive and slowly advancing towards the Commander!  That's a distinctive and familiar voice pattern...  Commander Goodman! Watch out! *SHWINK*   You...you saved me! I don't believe it! Isn't that the servant, Nastassja!? But she was the first to die! I confirmed it myself. She had no pulse. But she was the only woman in the house other than Eleanor and Officer Neuer. It seems we have been fooled by an elaborate ruse! Who on earth are you!? Reveal yourself! Where is the real Nastassja?  You fiend... Iwasbutahair'sbreadthawayfromterminatingmytarget,andthenthewindvestalofallpeoplehastoshowup. Icertainlydidnotexpectyouarrival,Imustadmit. ButthatsimplymeansIwilladdyouandyourfollowerstothelistofvictimstofallpreytomyblade. JustasthefirevestaldidattheTempleofFirethreeyearsago! You were the one who took the fire vestal's life!? Then, you are a member of the Black Blades!?   Huh? She's gone quiet! I've seen this woman near this residence before! She was just my type, so-- Er...I mean she looked suspicious, so I chased after her, but she gave me a swift rebuff. What? You mean this is the girl you were chasing after that time?Ringabel's taste in women is almost as bad as his flirtation techniques. Kikyo leaps back, changing her stance--  Here she comes! Time to take out the last of the Black Blades.  Kikyo's speciality is based around being a highly evasive target, making her a pain to whittle down without magic.  In addition to naturally high evasion, Utsusemi allows her to automatically evade the next physical attack done against her. She combines this with a nasty counter skill.  She also has an attack skill which lets her hit first during the turn, making it better to be better proactive rather than reactive with healing. Anyway, keep up steady hits, abuse Salve-Maker as needed, and before you know it--  Well hey, Tiz doesn't waste any time.  Utsusemi is even more broken than it sounds. With Kikyo nearly dead and her asterisk taken, the party confronts the ninja. Any last words before you meet your maker? So the ninja chooses to remain silent upon her death... You think...? It looks like she has something to say. Look, she's changed her disguise again...  allsaid.Unfortunately,thewindvestalIhadusedasbaitactuallyappeared.TherewasnowayIcouldhaveanticipatedthisturnofevents. PerhapsthisiswhatIgetfortakingthefirevestal'slife.Mypunishmentfornotheedingtheswordmaster'swarnings. Itwasaregrettablemisstep.Ifonlythefirevestalhadnotignoredmywarningandleaptintothelavap...  What did you say!? What happened to the fire vestal...!? It's no use. She's dead.D's Journal: Konoe the Ninja posted:At a Shieldbearer banquet, Kikyo dressed herself up as the corpse of a dead servant, intending to murder the key Shieldbearers present. We happened to be there, and used our powers of deduction to uncover her plot. She attacked, and we were forced to defeat her. She was the one who rebuffed me before, so she must have been planning this for quite some time. D's Journal: Nastassja the Servant posted:According to the Black Blades' ninja Konoe Kikyo, who disguised herself as Nastassja and murdered two Shieldbearer officers, she killed the real Nastassja and tossed her into the lava at Mount Karka... The true threat revealed and removed, Commander Goodman frees Eleanor and meets with the party, relieved yet solemn.  Though we lost two of our officers, I consider it a blessing that you and my wife escaped unharmed. I have done my wife a disservice. I was not able to trust her completely... It was a tough situation we were placed in. That would certainly set me at ease. It gets lonely in this big house by myself...Before the Commander responds, a loud knocking comes from the other side of the front door, along with a soldier's voice.  Commander Goodman! Officer Steiner! Officer Neuer! Are you alright!? We'll just, uh, conveniently not mention the other two for now. I'll get the door open now! Please stand back!As the Shieldbearers smash the door down, the party stands off to one side...  That's one banquet I won't forget.D's Journal: Shieldbearer Cdr Daniel Goodman posted:The culprit was the Black Blades' ninja Konoe Kikyo, who had disguised herself as the slain servant! She attempted to take the commander's life, but we were able to stop her in time. Looking more closely, I realized she was the one who had given me a whack and run away earlier. We prevailed after a frenzied battle. D's Journal: Eleanor Goodman posted:The culprit was the Black Blades' ninja Konoe Kikyo, who had disguised herself as the slain servant! She tried to take the commander's life, but we stopped her in time. Unfortunately, others had already fallen victim to her plot. A rather grim ending to that story. If only the party had uncovered the truth earlier. Konoe Kikyo's plan made for a fine mystery, but left many gaping holes so far as clean assassinations go. Let's give this another shot.   Gathering all these high-powered individuals and announcing the kill-fest beforehand with a letter is a classic dramatic flourish. But why risk it? What if the Shieldbearers had left straightaway, or after the murder letter had been read? What if backup soldiers were called to the residence at that point?  Kikyo put a lot of stock in her makeup, costume, and acting abilities. To her credit, these aspects of the plan went off without a hitch, fooling even Eleanor.  Kikyo considered the Shieldbearer officers easy targets -- easy enough to have some fun beforehand. After the wind vestal's party appeared, she must've panicked. The party turned the tide of the Eisenberg war nearly singlehandedly, but Kikyo's plan -- the disappeared servant, the letter announcing murder -- was already too far along to stop.  Was Kikyo going to attempt to pick the party off one-by-one after killing Goodman? Perhaps, even as it got more and more difficult to catch them off guard the further along she went with her original plan. Look at how many opportunities there were to kill the party. What if Agnès had drunk the poisoned tea instead? That's only one example of how this could've ended up with three sad vestal guards, one very disappointed fairy, and a happy bunch of Eternians (at least until the world started dying).  ...Whoops. Got so distracted analyzing, Steiner died. Okay, there's still time to save Neuer. If we can just unmask Kikyo...   ...Nothing doing. ...Okay. We know it's her. Steiner dying -- again -- was the last straw. Let's try another... say, 15 times. Three.... Four.... ... ...... ............ Seventeen!  ............ ..................  Whoa! The body spoke!?  Hah! Just as I suspected. Yeah, right... Ihaveyettoslaymymark.Trustthewindvestalandhertrooptoshowupattheworstpossibletime. Well,itseemsIhavenochoicebuttokillyouall!JustasIdidthefirevestalthreeyearsago! You were the one who took the fire vestal's life!? Then you are a member of the Black Blades!? You sure talk fast...! Thatiscorrect.IamKonoeKikyo,professionalkiller,andleaderoftheBlackBlades'covertforces!*poof*  .................. ....................................~Fighting ensues~ D's Journal: Ringabel posted:Stuck inside the Goodman residence, we placed the murdered servant Nastassja in bed. Something struck me as odd, and ignoring the stares of the others, I began to prod the body. Suddenly she came back to life and began to babble, revealing her true identity and the details of her deception. She was the one who had rebuffed me earlier! D's Journal: Nastassja the Servant posted:I noticed something odd about the body of Nastassja, which had been placed on a bed. I poked away at it, trying to get to the bottom of things. Confirming my suspicions, I penetrated the disguise of the ninja Konoe Kikyo of the Black Blades! D's Journal: Shieldbearer Cdr Daniel Goodman posted:The culprit was the Black Blades' ninja Konoe Kikyo, who had disguised herself as the slain servant! We fortunately unraveled the plot, although not before another life was claimed. It seems my quick thinking saved the day! After the battle, the party confronts Kikyo once again. Her final speech, however, has changed:  hasbeenfornaught. AllwasgoingtoplanuntilIusedthewindvestaltoluremyvictimsandyouallcomesaunteringinoutofnowhereandruineverything. ThatisthelasttimeItrustAlternisforinformation. IpittedOfficersSteinerandNeueragainsteachotherforallthattime,yetyougotmeintheend,WindVestal. Gagh... *die* She got that off her chest quick...D's Journal: Shieldbearer Officer Savish Neuer posted:Though Officer Steiner was killed, we solved the crime thanks to my brilliant detective work. The culprit was the Black Blades' ninja Konoe Kikyo, who had disguised herself as the body of the servant Nastassja. We also learned that it was the covert force of the Black Blades that had spread nasty rumors about Officers Steiner and Neuer. The party rejoins Goodman and Neuer, explaining the Black Blades' hidden plan. Goodman frees Eleanor immediately before returning to speak with the party.  Neuer bows.  Indeed. Just as we let our guard down, we walked straight into this deadly trap. It was silly of me to assume that Officer Steiner was after Commander Goodman's position now that I think of it. As joint chiefs of operations for the Shieldbearers, it is terribly embarrassing to fall into the enemy's snare... Of course...! I've got it! Just what is it you've got? That death threat. It's all starting to make sense now... What is!? How about filling in the blanks? The enemy had spread rumors and slander about Officers Steiner and Neuer over a long period of time. That death threat was undoubtedly a devious scheme to bring their suspicions of each other to a head. The invitations bearing the name of the wind vestal, savior of these lands, and the hint that Commander Goodman was targeted... At the very least, it would have driven a wedge between the three leaders of the Shieldbearers.The years of slander between Neuer and Steiner worked wonders. Luckily it focused on petty grievances rather than, say, questions of treason.  Were years of petty subterfuge really superior to three swift assassinations done earlier in the war? Either way, saving Goodman, the prime target, for last just ensured he'd be the most likely to survive and least likely to continue spreading slanderous rumors about his colleagues. Eleanor cries out from another room. D-Daniel...! Nastassja is in the cellar!!That's right: by stopping Kikyo before she murdered both officers, we retroactively made her less competent at killing.  Yes. She was drugged, and is still a little woozy, but she is safe. I see... Thank heavens. From now on I'll do my best to spend more time at home, even when I'm busy. That would certainly set me at ease. It gets lonely in this big house by myself... Neuer's a good person when not paranoid. Aside from the small unrequited crush on Daniel, turns out she really is just big on organization and meetings and such. I appreciate it.*KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK* Commander Goodman! Officer Steiner! Officer Neuer! Are you alright!? D's Journal: Eleanor Goodman posted:The culprit was the Black Blades' ninja Konoe Kikyo, who had disguised herself as the slain servant! The Shieldbearers' Officer Saranish Steiner was poisoned, but my keen wit saw through the plot in time to prevent more deaths. We later discovered the servant Nastassja alive, locked up in the dungeon. D's Journal: Nastassja the Servant posted:Though Officer Saranish Steiner died from the poison slipped into his tea by Konoe Kikyo, we vanquished her when the Wind Vestal saw through her scheme. After the incident, Nastassja was found in the cellar in a dazed state, having been drugged and locked up. And so, the party and the Goodmans, plus Neuer, are rescued. But we still haven't saved Steiner. If only the party had obsessively checked the corpse sooner...  ACTUALLY D's Journal: Eleanor Goodman posted:The culprit was the Black Blades' ninja Konoe Kikyo, who had disguised herself as the slain servant! My keen wit saw through her plan, though. I won't let her get away with causing Eleanor so many tears! *FIGHT* *die*D's Journal: Shieldbearer Cdr Daniel Goodman posted:The culprit was the Black Blades' ninja Konoe Kikyo, who had disguised herself as the slain servant! We fortunately unraveled the plot before anyone else was killed, all thanks to my quick wit!   You have my eternal gratitude, Wind Vestal. The Shieldbearers could have lost their leadership before the war drew to a close. Indeed. Just as we let our guard down, we walked straight into this deadly trap. All the slander I'd heard about Officer Neuer could have been the work of the enemy as well. It was silly of me to assume that Officer Steiner was after Commander Goodman's position now that I think of it.The cutscene continues as before, until near the end.  One good thing about unmasking Kikyo right away is that Eleanor is never imprisoned. Even with her husband apologizing afterwards for not believing her, it's hard to imagine that the whole deal wouldn't drive a wedge in their relationship. I appreciate it. Well, that's case closed. Now we just have to get the door open...*KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK* Commander Goodman! Officer Steiner! Officer Neuer! Are you alright!?  I'll get the door open now! Please stand back! Don't make too much mess!D's Journal: Shieldbearer Officer Savish Neuer, Shieldbearer Ofc Saranish Steiner posted:Thanks to my brilliant detective work, we solved the crime and unmasked the Black Blades' ninja Konoe Kikyo, who had disguised herself as the body of the servant Nastassja. We also learned that it was the covert force of the Black Blades that had spread nasty rumors about Officers Steiner and Neuer. D's Journal: Nastassja the Servant posted:Thanks to my keen wit and powers of deduction, Konoe Kikyo's plot was foiled. After the incident, Nastassja was found in the cellar in a dazed state, having been drugged and locked up. And thus the adventure of the dead man's banquet drew to a close. Final casualties: One theatrically-inclined ninja, and a plan borne of reading far too many whodunits. Next: Trouble on the grandship on the grand seas. -- Event Viewer Sub-Scenario: A Fatal Error Kikyo the Ninja The Ninja Meets Her End - B End to a Tragedy Not Just a Corpse The Ninja Meets Her End - A Steiner is Gone The Grand Finale D's Journal: Konoe the Ninja posted:
Greyarc fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Dec 5, 2017 |
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Dec 5, 2017 04:12
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Another case solved by Detective Elvis.
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Dec 5, 2017 04:37
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Never realized you could actually solve the case. Then again I only played through once and figured "it's an RPG, if I hit space enough I'll get to a fight or something."
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Dec 5, 2017 05:07
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Really, I think this sidequest could've been more interesting if the party wasn't immediately cleared as suspects... And things were set up so that they'd each either be at each other's throats or defending one of the others as the bodies began piling up. Or they could've caught on pretty quick that the killer was in disguise, and then made it into a game of guessing who she was prancing around as.
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Dec 5, 2017 05:34
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Given that Chapter 3 is about the party mending the distrust between them, I think it's to be expected that they want to absolve them of doubt and give them a reason to trust one another for this quest.
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Dec 5, 2017 05:41
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Given that Chapter 3 is about the party mending the distrust between them, I think it's to be expected that they want to absolve them of doubt and give them a reason to trust one another for this quest. Fair enough! Though if it had been available earlier in the chapter, something along those lines could've tied into the themes of how the party's basically reached it's lowest point at the chapter's beginning. ...Granted, that'd make it kind of awkward if you did the team-rebuilding stuff from the main plot, then walk into that sidequest and suddenly have everyone accusing Ringabel all over again.
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Dec 5, 2017 05:46
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Really it's all just symptoms of the utterly bizarre decision to make three quarters of the villainous alliance completely optional, and the ensuing pretzels that the plot has to be twisted into as a result.
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Dec 6, 2017 00:18
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hey girl you up posted:It seems pretty clear to me at that point that following an LP drastically changes the nature of the consumption. For you, it was a fun murder mystery sidequest with an easily-ignored phoned-in plot. For me, it's a narrative with a weak and dissonant murder mystery. Very much this. I'm one of those people who played the game. Watching people analyze this stuff (for lack of anything better to do between updates) is interesting to me, because it's not how I typically experience RPGs. Even when I do follow them in LP (archived) format, I'm still getting the plot points in a rapid-fire manner similar to how I'd get them when playing. Following an ongoing LP, and one where I was there when it started? How novel! Ignorance is (was) bliss in this case - I was surprised by this and other plot points, if only because I didn't over-analyze things. I caught the occasional hint, and obviously knew this would be an asterisk quest because of the blue (!) bubble, but "it was the maid"? Who knew? 
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Dec 6, 2017 05:59
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Greyarc posted:
"If only the fire vestal had not ignored my warning and leapt into the lava pit" You can explain why you're doing this poo poo to the fire vestal but not to the boss's daughter. Of course. Although to be fair Kikyo was actually talking here and might have been willing to sing had she not died. It's interesting that she calls the fire vestal's death a mistake. Is the implication that she was tasked with capture, not assassination, and Rei* Oblige decided to commit suicide to avoid it instead? *what was the fire vestal's name anyway?
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Dec 6, 2017 11:28
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IIRC, Heinckel and the others were trying to capture Agnes, as well, and Olivia only died because she jumped in the way of Victoria's attack aimed at Agnes. Who by then had already slaughtered her way through a small battalion of Eternian troops, including many officers, allied herself with a traitor quite capable of divulging Eternian state secrets, and awakened one of the crystals that the Eternian forces currently do not want awakened for whatever nebulous reason.
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Dec 6, 2017 11:58
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Another case solved by Detective Elvis. Hey now when did this turn into a Robert Crais novel.
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Dec 6, 2017 12:57
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Omobono posted:"If only the fire vestal had not ignored my warning and leapt into the lava pit" Ah yes. The ol’ ‘despite it probably being in everyone’s best interest nobody in the know tells the plot to the POV characters because otherwise there’s no game’ device. That’s been around almost as long as JRPGs have had stories. And seems like it’s going to remain a plot device as long as there are JRPGs to infect with it. *glares at Xenoblade Chronicles 2*
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Dec 6, 2017 19:18
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Omobono posted:It's interesting that she calls the fire vestal's death a mistake. Is the implication that she was tasked with capture, not assassination, and Rei* Oblige decided to commit suicide to avoid it instead? It's never given in game. Maybe in one of the supplements? I know there's a Bravely Default manga floating around. Also, yeah, Eternia's original goal was to capture the vestals, not kill them; they're just terrible at their jobs. The Sky Knights decided to make ill-timed jokes about torturing Agnes on the way back to Eternia, Victoria and Victor decided to take Braev's command to capture "a" vestal literally so Victoria would have an excuse to kill Agnes, and Kikyo wasn't expecting the fire vestal to suicide. It's implied in the first scene where we see the Black Blades that Kikyo's still embarrassed about getting the fire vestal killed.
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Dec 6, 2017 22:23
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Victoria's pretty dumb. "We're supposed to bring back a vestal alive, right? Then I'll kill the one I didn't just blow up with dark magic."
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Dec 7, 2017 01:55
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No, I'd say that Braev is pretty dumb for letting a psychopathic child onto the ruling council of his country. Especially since her yes-man caretaker is occupying another seat.
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Dec 7, 2017 02:10
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Is there a Konoe Kikyo pun I'm missing?
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Dec 7, 2017 02:20
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There is a lot of dumbness going on in this game. Lots of it.
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Dec 7, 2017 04:58
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Commander Keene posted:No, I'd say that Braev is pretty dumb for letting a psychopathic child onto the ruling council of his country. Especially since her yes-man caretaker is occupying another seat. Yeah, even in light of... things to come, letting her have any kind of power in Eternia is probably one of Braev's worst decisions.
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Dec 7, 2017 05:26
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Victor probably insisted on it. As he possibly the most important person in the country far more then Victoria despite his submissiveness to her.
MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Dec 9, 2017 |
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Dec 7, 2017 07:05
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Again, a lot of things you can understand later on in the game, when you have the knowledge. Of course this doesn't ever justify the whole 'not explaining this to you' and two other key points which I won't talk about till we see it in the LP. But some questions you can answer if you speculate from the knowledge the game has given you. I still maintain it's bad writing for it to not come up in actual dialogue, but I'll take what I can get. Seriously though. The game's plot line falls apart in places and defies common sense in other spots, which all could have been avoided if the writers actually bothered to have the characters talk about it. There is a lot of text in this game. What's a few more lines, if they change everything for the better?
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Dec 7, 2017 07:57
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