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Groogy posted:We already have a topic decided for the next dev diary but maybe in the near future. stats posts are rad and you should do this
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Dec 3, 2017 10:01
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TorakFade posted:Same can be said about estates, but people rave on about estates because they can get 50MP every 20 years if you remember to do it - and yeah I know it can be 100MP but they have to be loyal AND influential which either you have not much control over, or you have to pay some way or another to get It's 150 if they have 75+ influence which is fairly easy to swing, just hire some advisors you don't actually need. Unless you get one of the really negative estate events at an extremely bad time you'll be fine either way. Starting most games with 150 admin and mil points and a free general is the poo poo.
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Dec 3, 2017 10:24
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RabidWeasel posted:It's 150 if they have 75+ influence which is fairly easy to swing, just hire some advisors you don't actually need. Unless you get one of the really negative estate events at an extremely bad time you'll be fine either way. I see your point, still it's a micro-heavy thing to manage to get the most out of it, and as such is definitely an attention tax too. I always forget to use the interactions unless I really need something from the estate for a particular reason - say I need to raise stability to avoid a ticking disaster but I don't have the MP, or ... well that's it really for "urgent" interactions, the rest are nice bonuses but hardly necessary, and it requires much more micromanaging than army professionalism (constantly assigning provinces to keep them happy, keeping influence in check, making right choices in events where multiple estates are involved vs. clicking "drill" on your armies and picking events that increase professionalism at the cost of something else). IMHO estates are good at the beginning, but peter out greatly later on since 100MP, a 40-tradition general or a discounted advisor is next to useless mid-game when you have 60+ army tradition and more money than Scrooge McDuck if you're playing a standard medium-sized non-gimmicky nation, then they become only an annoyance to maintain. Professionalism start out pretty bad, there's almost no bonus in it, but by mid-late game it gets really good with some pretty cool abilities (reinforce garrison is awesome when you're on the offensive, you can win a siege, refill the garrison and move on knowing that the enemy can't retake in a couple ticks or so - supply depot can be very useful to avoid attrition and war exhaustion - 25MP generals is the bee's knees - half morale damage for reserves is awesome in late-game mega-doomstack fights) which, thinking about it, I guess reflects VERY well how things worked in the game timeframe: early on, you'd rely on mercenaries and keeping your nobility/church happy, while later on you want a professional army and view the church and nobility as loving annoyances that should just stop bothering you with their requests - so kudos to Paradox in this case? 
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Dec 3, 2017 10:48
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RabidWeasel posted:It's 150 if they have 75+ influence which is fairly easy to swing, just hire some advisors you don't actually need. Unless you get one of the really negative estate events at an extremely bad time you'll be fine either way. Influence boosting estate events are actively more likely at 70 influence IIRC, that's why most people don't bother with the 150.
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Dec 3, 2017 10:52
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I like estates because before they existed you wouldn't have those bonuses regardless. I just dick around with them when I remember but often leave them alone as a passive % bonus to my things. You don't need to ride the tiger if you don't want to. I don't have the CoC expansion yet so I can't comment on professionalism but it seems weird that it's totally divorced from tradition.
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Dec 3, 2017 11:18
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reignonyourparade posted:Influence boosting estate events are actively more likely at 70 influence IIRC, that's why most people don't bother with the 150. A lot of those events are actually good in the balance of things, though! Most of them give some kind of benefit as well as the changes to estate influence / happiness. Once you have lots of provinces you can just add / remove estates as needed to prevent bad things from happening or to keep them happy for the sweet bonuses. You very rarely need to sit through an extended period of unhappy estates.
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Dec 3, 2017 12:04
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Is there still a bug where trade region merchants disappear and don't come back? I had one from the SAfrian node, and then got EAfrica sorted out and I'm back to two merchants. I thought there had been a patch for this.
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Dec 3, 2017 12:50
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Didn't have time to get it fixed and tested for this hotfix patch so it had to be put in the next one. 1.24 should be soonish
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Dec 3, 2017 13:16
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Picked up Third Rome recently and wanted to give Muscovy a try. Are the colonies you get from the dlc enough to get the Relentless Push East achievement without taking Exploration or Expansion? Can you colonize Alaska with them?
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Dec 3, 2017 13:48
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Deltasquid posted:
There are events that trade off tradition for professionalism Tradition is like an aristocratic class of “the generals” or something and professionalism is it’s a job
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Dec 3, 2017 14:14
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There is also this annoying event that makes you lose a lot of proffesssionalism or an absolute ton of manpower. It loves to fire during wars too. 
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Dec 3, 2017 14:37
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QuarkJets posted:Nice. That looks like one of the harder ones to pull off yeah i had a lot of good luck i think. i beat the ottomans to the jerusalem area which let me get cyprus, which let me use the knights and their various baby alliances as my door to europe. the reformations hit europe hard, so that when the Diet of Wein came, the only catholics left were austria, france, venice, ragusa, and cologne. the emperorship became hereditary, but then cologne and ragusa became electors so a vassalization and couple of no cbs later the hre was gone. france ate castile so there was only one real superpower i was afraid of in europe, but they never allied anyone but venice. they took defender of the catholic faith but it obviously didn't matter to the central indians, rajput cultures, and bohemians: oddium posted:if you have hostile core creation +50% in your national ideas
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Dec 3, 2017 15:27
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holy moly i want to do a third way mughals now but the Legalism/Mysticism flip suuuuuuuuuuucks. i'm never going to be anywhere near mysticism with all these heathen wars. goodbye missionary strength + morale........
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Dec 3, 2017 15:35
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TorakFade posted:Same can be said about estates, but people rave on about estates because they can get 50MP every 20 years if you remember to do it - and yeah I know it can be 100MP but they have to be loyal AND influential which either you have not much control over, or you have to pay some way or another to get Estates are mostly fine because it's just a few clicks every decade or so to get some really good bonuses. With professionalism you have to be constantly micromanaging your troops at peace to get a small trickle of it. It effectively makes your troops fight worse because the AI is a million times better at micromanaging. That's what I mean by an attention tax.
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Dec 3, 2017 16:42
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yeah there really should be a way to get stacks to auto drill.
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Dec 3, 2017 17:14
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In the next expansion they'll revamp the trade system to be more interactive, by giving you a single ducat every time you click on a trade node.
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Dec 3, 2017 17:17
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Is it just me or is the Farm Estate building an utter waste of money
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Dec 3, 2017 17:46
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skasion posted:Is it just me or is the Farm Estate building an utter waste of money Not just you. I guess it'll pay for itself over the game but it's less attractive than most other early-game money sinks.
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Dec 3, 2017 17:50
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What's with AI armies going immobile during wars? Had a France/Provence AI war where Provence occupied the entire south side of France while their main stack chilled in Paris.
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Dec 3, 2017 18:10
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oddium posted:holy moly i want to do a third way mughals now but the Legalism/Mysticism flip suuuuuuuuuuucks. i'm never going to be anywhere near mysticism with all these heathen wars. goodbye missionary strength + morale........ Pro tip Baluchistan has exactly enough development that you can shift to Baluchi as Hormuz if you don't conquer any other stated provinces before then. And also Hormuz can flip Ibadi if you send a missionary to the right province on day 1 and then accept rebel demands. If you just want to do Third Way you might want to forget about going Mughals since Oman gets the Feudal Theocracy government which makes conversions a lot easier, their NIs are pretty awful though. If you're dedicated enough to a bit of rebel fuckery you might have an easier time with Rassids => Yemen since their ideas are fantastic (other than no RCC) and you can start scum until their pretender rebel stack has a god monarch attached. As a Feudal Theocracy I actually prefer legalism over mysticism anyway, +1 missionary +1% missionary strength is more than good enough as a baseline for conversions.
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Dec 3, 2017 18:14
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skasion posted:Is it just me or is the Farm Estate building an utter waste of money 
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Dec 3, 2017 19:05
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RabidWeasel posted:Pro tip Baluchistan has exactly enough development that you can shift to Baluchi as Hormuz if you don't conquer any other stated provinces before then. And also Hormuz can flip Ibadi if you send a missionary to the right province on day 1 and then accept rebel demands. you gotta start as one of the three ibadi nations to be eligible for the achievement and i ain't sticking with Boaty McBoatface's ideas, or their lack of permanent claims on one of the richest regions in the world
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Dec 3, 2017 19:23
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oddium posted:you gotta start as one of the three ibadi nations to be eligible for the achievement and i ain't sticking with Boaty McBoatface's ideas, or their lack of permanent claims on one of the richest regions in the world Boo, achievements are dumb and bad. I really thought you could convert mid game, but I guess the idiot purists don't want you to be able to do it as Ottomans or w/e In that case yeah you start as Oman and go for Mughals definitely. You can go Mughals => Mamluks => Persia to get that conversion chance back but even if you're a god tier player you're not going to be doing that particularly quickly. RabidWeasel fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Dec 3, 2017 |
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Dec 3, 2017 19:26
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skasion posted:Is it just me or is the Farm Estate building an utter waste of money Helpful if you are trying to get the Trading in bonus, or becoming production leader.
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Dec 3, 2017 19:32
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fun fact: for Choson One you have to start as korea, but there's nothing saying you can't vassal switch, and there's nothing saying the player nation has to own all the eastern religious provinces. so you could theoretically: vassal switch to a manchu tribe form manchu conquer a specific aztec city get an event to embrace Nahuatlism crush asia under the scales of the winged serpent keep korea alive on a tiny island with the only confucian province which i was in the process of doing before i got bored 
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Dec 3, 2017 19:38
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Ur a real cheevohead.
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Dec 3, 2017 20:15
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canepazzo posted:What's with AI armies going immobile during wars? Had a France/Provence AI war where Provence occupied the entire south side of France while their main stack chilled in Paris. It breaks sometimes, you need to reload the game to fix em.
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Dec 3, 2017 20:58
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Poil posted:What? It makes tons and tons of money. Slap a workshop in the province and control the trade and you'll be rolling in it. It only gives you +1 goods produced for three of the cheapest trade goods in the game. Even if you have zero autonomy and collect 100% of the trade in the province's node, it would take about 100-125 years to pay off the cost. And even after it pays off the cost it's only worth 4-5 ducats a year. I wouldn't exactly say that's rolling it. And there are other factors to consider. In the early game, 500 ducats are a massive investment. By the time you can actually throw that kind of money at buildings, there are much better manufactories for more valuable trade goods to build. Also, unlike other buildings, manufactories don't scale with province development. Effectively, a manufactory is just five "free" points of production without any of the other benefits of development (force limit, institutions, etc). Fister Roboto fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Dec 3, 2017 |
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Dec 3, 2017 21:21
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If I remember the math correctly you are a bit off on the numbers of it being "only 4-5 ducats a year" Trade goods earn you money twice, so if we assume a 10 dip dev province with an effective local prod efficiency of 150% (somewhere around mid tech) and about somewhere around 50% trade efficiency and if we let assume everything is perfect we end up with something in style of: Trade value: 7.5 ducats Production: 250% * trade value = 18.75 yearly Trade: 150% * trade value = 11.25 yearly This is though with everything optimal and you have no unrest, no occupations, no devastation etc. etc. etc. So if everything is absolutely perfect you should be paying back both the Counting house and the manufactory in like 30 years maybe? e: also realized 10 dip dev is a bit too high for really a comparison. 5 dip dev would give us 40 years? e2: and that also shows the power of the manufactory, because of the flat +1 it offsets the "payback" time. If you want to be really pedantic though you could go for specifically the difference that manufactory provides but it is still affected by the counting house so it would still be something like 80 years. (including counting the counting house) Groogy fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Dec 3, 2017 |
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Dec 3, 2017 21:42
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Currently in my Papal game grain has a base price of 2, livestock 3.7 and wine 3.12. It's not terrible at all. Cows and wine only get better and better as the game goes on (as far as I know).
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Dec 3, 2017 21:47
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It depends on a lot of factors but manufactories are always good even on the shittiest provinces, it's just that unless you're playing a tier 1 power from the start you probably won't have the cash spare to put down 500 ducats on a low value province during the part of the game before you unlock the manufactories for better goods. Livestock does end up being worth quite a lot since it has several price increase events so if you ever are in the position to build a farm estate do it on a livestock province.
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Dec 3, 2017 22:10
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Groogy posted:If I remember the math correctly you are a bit off on the numbers of it being "only 4-5 ducats a year" Province development doesn't factor in because manufactories give a flat amount of goods produced, equivalent to five development. A wine manufactory will give you 2.5 ducats per year for production and 2.5 ducats for trade, assuming you control all the trade in the node. Obviously efficiency factors in, but those aren't going to be very high until the mid to late game. e: also counting houses are pretty late game so that's not really relevant Fister Roboto fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Dec 4, 2017 |
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Dec 4, 2017 04:15
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Anywhere that you build a manufactory is probably at least going to have a workshop, and you have a flat 10% bonus to production efficiency by the time that you can even build the farm estate. That's closer to ~10 ducats/year at admin level 6, and increasing substantially as the game goes on.
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Dec 4, 2017 07:44
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That is of course with the extremely generous assumption that you control all the trade in the node. And also that you even have 500 ducats on hand at tech level 6 (like 20 years into the game) and nothing better to spend it on. 500 ducats is usually still a luxury at tech 11 when the more valuable manufactories come along.
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Dec 4, 2017 08:32
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In the real world you're almost certainly going to do better in the long run if you invest that cash in another stack of mercenaries so you can go conquer more poo poo. But that's more of an issue with mercs than anything else.
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Dec 4, 2017 10:19
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It always depends on what is limiting you, in some games like Ottomans you wont need the mercs because you're more limited by AE. But maybe it's better to spend the money on advisors anyway. I feel like the main drawback that makes them bad is the lack of scaling with development, maybe it should be changed to a fixed +1 and +0.1 per development or something. +1 goods and some PE might also work. The opportunity cost for most buildings seems too high really.
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Dec 4, 2017 10:26
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Manufactories as a whole certainly don't need a buff, though it might be interesting if all of the different manufactories worked slightly differently so they're not just effectively tech level unlocks for each trade good.
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Dec 4, 2017 10:28
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uPen posted:It breaks sometimes, you need to reload the game to fix em. Yeah, this game tho it's happening constantly - every war I have to restart once or twice or I got half my allies chilling in mountains way across the front while their own lands get carpet sieged.
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Dec 4, 2017 11:27
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skasion posted:Inheritance in a personal union can definitely happen on monarch death, there’s a fixed chance for it which scales with country size and maybe a couple other variables. You still need to have had the PU for at least 50 years though. At one point at least, there was a chance when a ruler died that you’d just outright inherit them instead of forming a PU. It wasn’t a large chance, but it definitely happened. I remember I inherited QQ as Oman back when Oman was still shia.
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Dec 4, 2017 14:00
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Senor Dog posted:At one point at least, there was a chance when a ruler died that you’d just outright inherit them instead of forming a PU. It wasn’t a large chance, but it definitely happened. I remember I inherited QQ as Oman back when Oman was still shia. Yeah, this can still happen and I totally forgot. It’s pretty unlikely but you see it happen with HRE minors every so often.
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Dec 4, 2017 15:02
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