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Grand Prize Winner posted:I too would build custom dildos It is surprisingly difficult to buy custom dildos, even if you just want smooth ones and don't care about the color.
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Dec 3, 2017 02:41
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Haifisch posted:Maybe some factories are more of a pillar of the community than others? This is fair, I just really object to the attitude fishmech was expressing that “it’s all generic and replaceable and no one cares”. It feeds into this idea that people are little more than easily replaced cogs in a machine - a commodity. And maybe it’s because I grew up in a family that did a lot of commercial janitorial work, but I can’t help but notice that sort of labor that’s going on, how many people it takes behind the scenes to make a business actually function. Those folks are really important.
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Dec 3, 2017 02:47
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Ganson posted:It is surprisingly difficult to buy custom dildos, even if you just want smooth ones and don't care about the color. Whats custom then?
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Dec 3, 2017 03:03
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Baronjutter posted:If there was UBI I'd probably open up a little workshop making laser-cut model kits and what ever people want laser cut. I could potentially do this now but it's way too risky to try to start a business with no safety net and it probably wouldn't pay as much as my current job. I like making things, specially things other people appreciate or find useful. If I had UBI, I'd still be a baker. It was a good job, could bring in enough to pay for the bakery, but not if you had to pay enough for the workers to be comfortable. UBI and socialized healthcare would have let me do what I loved instead of becoming a computer janitor for vastly more money but much less satisfaction.
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Dec 3, 2017 03:24
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A sculptor friend of mine did a sideline in wheel-thrown ceramic dildos and butt plugs for a while. They weren't like, custom-fitted or anything, but she's a really talented artist who has a way with color, and they were pretty enough that you wouldn't mind leaving them out on your nightstand. She never really made much more than the cost of materials and maybe a little weed money off them, of course, but there's definitely a market out there for artisanal phalluses
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Dec 3, 2017 03:24
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We have Dildomancer and you all should read the puntil thread.
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Dec 3, 2017 03:41
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Solkanar512 posted:This is fair, I just really object to the attitude fishmech was expressing that “it’s all generic and replaceable and no one cares”. It feeds into this idea that people are little more than easily replaced cogs in a machine - a commodity. It is generic and replaceable and most people don't care though. Most of the labor going on in this world right now could be replaced immediately with automated machinery and much less manual labor, if the world was willing to do so and grant people actual quality of life. But capitalist society insists on having everyone do a bunch of effectively busywork for profits and scarcity's sake. As often mentioned, most of the manufacturing that "left" America was simply replaced by having one guy do much more stuff at once here, or the same amount of guys do it cheaper over there. If it had to "come back" here for some reason, we'd not replace the 10 Chinese dudes with 10 Americans like we used 40 years ago, it'd be 1 guy and his machines.
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Dec 3, 2017 03:47
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:It actually isn't a horrible job at the high end. It isn't even a bad job if you work at one of the stores like Costco or whatever that pay their employees a good wage and reward them for doing their jobs properly. Even Walmart and Target recognized they needed to raise their wages, but a lot of chains are still dragging their feet. I have had this conversation at pretty much every retail job I've had, and generally its split between people who don't like working retail but their availability or job selection is limited for one reason or another, and so it was the most conveinient way to get money, and people who actually like working retail because they're more inclined to like it personality-wise. I'm definitely in the latter, and there were some coworkers who would get really confused when I mentioned that I actually liked working with customers. That said, every chance I get I talk about how literally not a single person who works where I do makes the money that they're worth. The people at the bottom don't, the shift leads don't, and really even the manager doesn't, considering the availability you have to keep when you manage a smaller retail establishment (read: one without a bunch of departments and assistant managers). Occasionally I get the "well we are just working a temporary job" excuse but at this point, in this economy, service jobs are a huge percentage of what is available, and that percentage is growing, so if we keep the mindset that service jobs aren't worth paying people a living wage for, we're only expanding the gap between the people with all of the money and the rest of us. Just because a job doesn't require an education and is hypothetically something that "anyone" could learn doesn't mean we should be paying the people in those jobs less. Like, I'm sure picking vegetables and detassling corn are some of the easiest jobs you can get, but if you tell some office rear end in a top hat making 50k a year plus bennies that he could make 15% more if he took the field job he'd wuss out right quick. And we're paying those people even less than minimum wage. It's a garbage loving system.
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Dec 3, 2017 04:14
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got any sevens posted:Whats custom then? Specific length, diameter and firmness in diameter increments of .1 to .2 inches. DC Murderverse posted:I have had this conversation at pretty much every retail job I've had, and generally its split between people with criminal records and short sighted idiots/old people. FTFY Ganson fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Dec 3, 2017 |
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Dec 3, 2017 05:05
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There's nothing inherently degrading about retail work more than any other kind of work. What's degrading are the jobs that are designed to treat staff as interchangeable cogs with zero autonomy. Which is most jobs in larger chains, and given a surplus of labour, those jobs are financially unrewarding. Why pay somebody more when anybody could do their job well enough and you have a lineup of applicants gunning to take it for cheap? I work retail currently (at what fishmech would call a "twee mom & pop" store in a city high street) and my job pays all staff at least 20% above minimum and gives people steady schedules, full-time if they prefer, with annual raises and basic benefits (sick leave, vacation, etc.) I feel respected and I'd much rather keep doing this than an office job if the compensation were the same. But quite frankly, the compensation just isn't going to be the same, given how oversupplied "low-skill" labour is and competition with scalable, low overhead online retail. My store is outperforming all benchmarks except labour costs but it's still not hugely profitable and there is only so much value a great employee can add in a small business; somebody who can drive sales or cut costs in this setting could be much more profitable working in B2B sales or corporate retail by applying those skills to a larger scale. Small stores seem to be surviving the current storm better than chains, likely a combination of less leverage and emotional appeal. Successful stores selling non-essential items are about the shopping and service experience as much as the product, and mom & pops have the edge because right now "local" and "authentic" is trendier than corporate. But the world needs fewer stores-as-local-colour than it did stores-as-sources-of-goods, and if this big-box apocalypse continues it's going to have a depressing effect on wages & working conditions throughout the sector.
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Dec 3, 2017 06:42
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glowing-fish posted:What would you do, then? If you have kids who aren't yet of age to go to primary school, you could fill every day with nonstop activities and never think about work or a job at all. DR FRASIER KRANG fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Dec 3, 2017 |
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Dec 3, 2017 06:55
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HEY NONG MAN posted:If you have kids who aren't yet of age to go to primary school, you could fill every day with nonstop activities and never think about work or a job at all. Right now one has to do that with a job. I'm so tired.
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Dec 3, 2017 07:20
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Saeku posted:Small stores seem to be surviving the current storm better than chains, likely a combination of less leverage and emotional appeal. Successful stores selling non-essential items are about the shopping and service experience as much as the product, and mom & pops have the edge because right now "local" and "authentic" is trendier than corporate. But the world needs fewer stores-as-local-colour than it did stores-as-sources-of-goods, and if this big-box apocalypse continues it's going to have a depressing effect on wages & working conditions throughout the sector. Chain stores have McJobbed the poo poo out of those positions. Nobody expects sales staff to know anything any more, and they're not really willing to tolerate price increases to get better sales staff either. If that's what it means to be a retail store, then what they offering over vending machines and online orders any more? Especially if they're still boosting prices to pay for the rent in a dumb shopping theme park mall?
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Dec 3, 2017 08:09
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There seems to be a recurring theme with a lot of collapsing business sectors- media, retail- that they've gotten in such a race to the bottom in customer service and distribution that the online and automated alternatives are complete no-brainers from the customer's perspective and they mostly get by on people who haven't gotten used to computers yet.
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Dec 3, 2017 10:11
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Unbelievably White posted:I thought that the point of UBI was that people could be choosier about the work they pursue, since you'd still want to buy nice things once you get survival things. Is there some consensus on how much UBI should pay for? There are different UBI schemes. The neoliberal "let them eat cake" version of UBI gives you the bare minimum to survive or less, and it's more like a tax-funded subsidy to employers so that they can hire people on extremely small wages without the employees starving to death. Then there's the one where you make a decent living on plain UBI and you do work for self-fulfillment if that's your thing, and to have extra money to spend on amenities and luxuries. Like, I'd work part-time at a bookstore instead of doing my current (good) job full-time just to meet people, for the variety, and to get some physical activity in me. This sort of job combining could be really cool because sitting on your rear end in an office all day is what the incentives tell you to do, but it's bad for your health, physical and mental. It'd also help people mingle outside of their fenced-in social circles. And then there's fully automated luxury space communism, which is going to require a lot of social reform if we still need people to do the truly poo poo jobs no one really wants to do. Maybe if you clean toilets you would be treated the same way people treat businessmen and celebrities today.
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Dec 3, 2017 10:26
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SulphagneSocialist posted:And then there's fully automated luxury space communism, which is going to require a lot of social reform if we still need people to do the truly poo poo jobs no one really wants to do. Maybe if you clean toilets you would be treated the same way people treat businessmen and celebrities today. Isn't that essentially the Saudi's, except they import slaves to do the poo poo work?
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Dec 3, 2017 10:37
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OneEightHundred posted:What's kind of stark is how the "replaceable cogs" thing winds up being true for retail even though associate and front-end positions ARE customer-facing. Little boutiques like the one I work at are surviving basically through lifestyle branding: you don't go to a store to buy a thing, you go to the store because its aesthetic & ideals appeal to you, and you pick out something while you are there. You get personal attention from a tastemaker. You get to feel like one of the in crowd for being there. Many of the clothing & goods stores I frequent (including my own) sponsor parties, album/book signings, product demos, in-store classes, etc. to build the local brand. Mall stores can't really get away with this because modern malls are unpleasant to be in and un-aspirational. Apple pulls it off well with their design and experience and does great B&M numbers even though their products are completely fungible, so the experience is the only reason to go B&M. Charismatic staff are integral to the model, and labour costs are recouped in additional sales generated by hands-on service. But "more skilled/experienced sales associates" doesn't necessarily mean "well-paid sales associates" when so many workers have standards set by McJobs and are overjoyed just to have a retail job that's full-time, respectful, and at a marginally better wage.
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Dec 3, 2017 11:25
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Ganson posted:Isn't that essentially the Saudi's, except they import slaves to do the poo poo work? I suppose, except replace the slaves with automation or make them the exact opposite of slaves.
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Dec 3, 2017 12:55
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Inescapable Duck posted:There seems to be a recurring theme with a lot of collapsing business sectors- media, retail- that they've gotten in such a race to the bottom in customer service and distribution that the online and automated alternatives are complete no-brainers from the customer's perspective and they mostly get by on people who haven't gotten used to computers yet. If you're alleging media companies were better customer service and distribution in the past compared to now, I want to know what made you think that. Video stores with big late fees and limited selection? Dealing with Tower Records and needing to wait 5 weeks to get the record you want from corporate because it wasn't issued to the local store? Movies in general?
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Dec 3, 2017 18:09
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glowing-fish posted:What would you do, then? Man, it's quite aggravating to have someone quote you and ask you a question when you're on probation.  To answer your question, yes, basically similar stuff to what you listed (making charts and graphs, though? Dude, you do you, but that sounds awful), but none of those things are "work" at that point because no one is forcing you to do them. This idea of "I can't enjoy myself for long if I am not working" is the attitude that confuses me so much. Why do you think that? What about "work" makes you happy? Didn't you just admit that you'd be totally fine without work and doing hobbies instead? Let me quote from In Praise of Idleness by Bertrand Russell (which is a terrific read and is basically the thesis I'm arguing from): quote:It will be said that, while a little leisure is pleasant, men would not know how to fill their days if they had only four hours of work out of the twenty-four. In so far as this is true in the modern world, it is a condemnation of our civilization; it would not have been true at any earlier period. There was formerly a capacity for light-heartedness and play which has been to some extent inhibited by the cult of efficiency. The modern man thinks that everything ought to be done for the sake of something else, and never for its own sake. Serious-minded persons, for example, are continually condemning the habit of going to the cinema, and telling us that it leads the young into crime. But all the work that goes to producing a cinema is respectable, because it is work, and because it brings a money profit. The notion that the desirable activities are those that bring a profit has made everything topsy-turvy.
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Dec 3, 2017 18:14
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WampaLord posted:This idea of "I can't enjoy myself for long if I am not working" is the attitude that confuses me so much. Why do you think that? What about "work" makes you happy? Didn't you just admit that you'd be totally fine without work and doing hobbies instead? I don't agree with the idea that "computer-touching" is more noble than manual labor, but in the mass market, all jobs are just placeholders for when there's a machine to do it. The computer-touchers in the financial industry are high on the list of people that will soon be jobless. If you want to talk factory-town anecdotes, my hometown had a 60,000-job hole blown through it because Eastman Kodak invented digital photography and then sat on it because they didn't want to cannibalize their lucrative film business. That put a lot of engineers and "computer-touchers" out of work too, and I've met people that wax poetic about film emulsion, but the only reason those jobs existed in the first place was because people wanted something that they have a better way of getting now. The death of industries to efficiency gains brings new possibilities and new industries, and there will always be work. Get rid of all the jobs we do today and we'll dump all of our time and money into immortality research or spend a few trillion dollars to film the next Marvel Cinematic Universe installment on Mars. Saeku posted:Mall stores can't really get away with this because modern malls are unpleasant to be in and un-aspirational. Apple pulls it off well with their design and experience and does great B&M numbers even though their products are completely fungible, so the experience is the only reason to go B&M. Charismatic staff are integral to the model, and labour costs are recouped in additional sales generated by hands-on service. The success of Apple stores can't be separated from the fact that they're small and focused on a highly successful high-margin prestige brand, and there are clearly a lot of product lines and categories where a high-service model just isn't going to work because of the margins and price pressure. I guess the point is that while the McJob-ification of the work has turned a bunch of retailers into completely-disposable middlemen, that doesn't mean there was a viable business model without doing that. OneEightHundred fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Dec 3, 2017 |
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Dec 3, 2017 19:13
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Paradoxish posted:That makes sense, because I was wondering about that too. Here in CT you can easily find retail jobs that pay above $10/hour and that will even get you somewhat reliable hours, but you're still going to be flat broke all the time if you're working 35-40 hours/week on something like $11/hour. Well I mean minimum wage here in CT is 10.10, so inherently most retail jobs pay abkve $10 an hour
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Dec 3, 2017 20:47
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Anyone who says without work they'd have nothing to fill their days with is a terribly unimaginative/boring person. Between hobbies, exercise, self-improvement, and friends and family its not hard at all to fill every waking moment with something interesting/fun/rewarding to do. Instead of 9 hours spent commuting to/from work, and being at work, an average day can involve an hour or two of reading, an hour of exercise, a few hours of socializing, a few hours of quality time with your family, a few hours of doing a hobby... its very easy to fill up. I find the sentiment is far more common in America, where people tell themselves it to help justify their horrible work/life balance. In Europe when you're guaranteed 6 weeks+ a year of paid leave people tend to appreciate leisure time a lot more because they actually get to experience a reasonable amount of it.
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Dec 3, 2017 22:13
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Blut posted:I find the sentiment is far more common in America, where people tell themselves it to help justify their horrible work/life balance. In Europe when you're guaranteed 6 weeks+ a year of paid leave people tend to appreciate leisure time a lot more because they actually get to experience a reasonable amount of it. Part of this is that our educational system is actually pretty bad at teaching kids to be independent and curious. Knowing how to be productive and fulfilled without someone telling you what to do is a skill that needs to be learned and developed over time, so it's not surprising that a lot of people in the US aren't very good at it. Whenever this topic comes up, I always like to bring up my neighbor. He's in his early seventies, but he's been retired from full-time work since his late forties. He is without question the busiest person that I know. Every now and then I'll catch him out on his porch on a day that he's decided to just relax at home, and talking with him about what he's been doing for the last few weeks is just insane. It's kind of depressing to know that this guy does more in a single year than I'm likely to have the time or resources to do for the rest of my life.
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Dec 4, 2017 00:53
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It would be nice if we could stop calling people that enjoy partaking in business work ventures as dull. Quite a few people here have posted that they would enjoy running some sort of small business venture if they could. They would because they genuinely enjoy working in that field/trade. UBI and universal health care are great things to work towards, but saying people are poisoned by protestant work ethic is no better then others calling you a lazy rear end for not wanting to work. (“You” being used here in the general sense)
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Dec 4, 2017 01:06
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if i hit the lotto tomorrow i'd go back to working in restaurants. i loved the work but the pay is dogshit a friend of mine would, no poo poo, spend all day going around picking up litter if your ubi plan would be to sit and binge netflix until you die that's fine and all but plenty of people would find something to do
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Dec 4, 2017 01:25
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So are there any rollups on how good/bad Black Friday was for B&M this year? Online is up by 18% vs. last year, but can't find anything on traditional retail. OneEightHundred fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Dec 4, 2017 |
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Dec 4, 2017 02:52
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SpaceCadetBob posted:It would be nice if we could stop calling people that enjoy partaking in business work ventures as dull. Quite a few people here have posted that they would enjoy running some sort of small business venture if they could. They would because they genuinely enjoy working in that field/trade. No one's saying that. I'm saying the people who claim that without work they would be bored and without purpose are suffering from a lack of creativity. If you have a plan to work for yourself, that's totally cool, you do you. And I'm only saying people are poisoned by Protestant Work Ethic because, well, so many of them are. Look at all the people who suck Mike Rowe's cock for his dumbass "show up early, stay late, volunteer to do every lovely job" mentality.
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Dec 4, 2017 02:56
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Some people live in remote areas and have limited means and social support systems to fill their days with meaningful poo poo without the structure of employment. Having a job and a routine can be a lifesaver to people whose lives are pretty barren otherwise.
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Dec 4, 2017 03:06
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I just want to touch on the idea of productivity in America. I might argue that Americans view some types of leisure activity as being married to the concept of productivity itself. For example, many Americans (and some deeply Americanized Canadians) view alcohol not as a beverage enjoyed with a meal, but as a social lubricant, or something to "take the edge off". The very act of consuming something needs to have a "point", so to speak. WampaLord posted:The butcher who provides you with meat and the baker who provides you with bread are praiseworthy, because they are making money; but when you enjoy the food they have provided, you are merely frivolous, unless you eat only to get strength for your work. Which is why I think Americans love consuming coffee so much: aside from the fact that it tastes good to a lot of people, it's closely tied to the idea of productivity, hence its close association with work. It makes you energetic and productive, despite so many ads for it featuring people sighing wistfully out a coffee-shop window, looking half-asleep or maybe a little rumpled. And so even beyond that, the idea that leisure time needs to be productive as well isn't too far behind. "Getting poo poo done," seems to be a common response when I ask people what their plans are for the weekend. Many people tend to feel guilty when they have some spare time and use it to achieve absolutely nothing; I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, but I am also going to suggest that this is part of that fabric of North American culture where even leisure time has a productive end goal. Even something like exercise or general self-improvement is, technically, a productive act, at least much more so than sitting on your porch watching birds or taking a nap.
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Dec 4, 2017 03:09
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WampaLord posted:No one's saying that. I'm saying the people who claim that without work they would be bored and without purpose are suffering from a lack of creativity. If you have a plan to work for yourself, that's totally cool, you do you. That blue-collar cosplaying poo poo needs to shut the gently caress up. His whole “only you are responsible for your safety” is going to get someone killed. News flash - if everyone watches out for everyone else everyone is a whole lot safer and doesn’t have to deal with out bullshit workers comp system. Not to mention his lovely opinions on unions. “If you don’t like your job never ever complain, just find a new one”. gently caress you.
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Dec 4, 2017 03:15
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Solkanar512 posted:That blue-collar cosplaying poo poo needs to shut the gently caress up. His whole “only you are responsible for your safety” is going to get someone killed. News flash - if everyone watches out for everyone else everyone is a whole lot safer and doesn’t have to deal with out bullshit workers comp system. Seriously. I've dealt with new guys on a worksite before and been one myself, and if the older hands weren't watching out there would have been so much preventable death and mangling. Sorry for stealing work from EMTs and morticians, I guess.
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Dec 4, 2017 03:23
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WampaLord posted:No one's saying that. I'm saying the people who claim that without work they would be bored and without purpose are suffering from a lack of creativity. Or they have a job they enjoy doing, or at least had one recently and would go back to that if the pay didn't matter.
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Dec 4, 2017 03:25
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WampaLord posted:No one's saying that. I'm saying the people who claim that without work they would be bored and without purpose are suffering from a lack of creativity. If you have a plan to work for yourself, that's totally cool, you do you. Is it impossible for you to believe someone might enjoy the job they have currently, and want to continue doing it even if they weren't forced to by necessity?
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Dec 4, 2017 03:45
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Solkanar512 posted:That blue-collar cosplaying poo poo needs to shut the gently caress up. His whole “only you are responsible for your safety” is going to get someone killed. News flash - if everyone watches out for everyone else everyone is a whole lot safer and doesn’t have to deal with out bullshit workers comp system. But you are the only one responsible for your own safety. It is essential that you never trust it to anyone else completely, even as you look out for other people's safety and hopefully have other people looking out for yours. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what he's saying, because I've never seen it in context, but it seems completely reasonable the way you've stated it, and it in no way conflicts with the ideal situation where everyone watches out for each other as well as themselves. People have died, and let others die, because they thought someone else (often someone more experienced) noticed a dangerous or bad situation and would take care of it. To me, that's what the "you are responsible for your own safety" message is meant to target, not "every man for themselves!"
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Dec 4, 2017 03:53
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PT6A posted:But you are the only one responsible for your own safety. It is essential that you never trust it to anyone else completely, even as you look out for other people's safety and hopefully have other people looking out for yours. he says "only you are responsible for your safety" and "volunteer for every lovely job without complaining" on the same dumb screed. so if your boss tells you to go scrub the inside of an anoxic chamber without a tester or air supply, what do you do?  the juxtaposition of number 9 and 10 is especially awful - "i am responsible for my own education" while people recieve all of their mandatory education before the age of majority, and right after that "i am a product of my choices, not my circumstances" oh well i guess i should have chosen to be born to a family which values education who lives in a well funded school district, whoops boner confessor fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Dec 4, 2017 |
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Dec 4, 2017 04:16
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I'd read that as "everyone is responsible for safety". See a dangerous situation, take appropriate next steps (report up, evacuate, use an extinguisher, etc.). As opposed to "you're responsible for your own safety" which can lead to a mindset of "it's okay if a do a dangerous thing if I'll be the only one who might get hurt and I probably won't get hurt".
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Dec 4, 2017 04:19
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RandomPauI posted:I'd read that as "everyone is responsible for safety". See a dangerous situation, take appropriate next steps (report up, evacuate, use an extinguisher, etc.). As opposed to "you're responsible for your own safety" which can lead to a mindset of "it's okay if a do a dangerous thing if I'll be the only one who might get hurt and I probably won't get hurt". yes but safety is often beyond common sense, hence why there's so many drat rules about workplace safety (each one because of an avoidable injury or death) It's just vacant wisdom of the commonman poo poo
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Dec 4, 2017 04:28
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^^: I want to combine your first paragraph with mine somehow Honestly, the way it's phrased makes it seem like a subtle dig at workplace safety laws hidden within legitimately good advice: even if everything is up to code you still gotta keep your eyes out, and that's true, but it's phrased in a kinda libertarian way. I'd say that the rest is dumb as hell. Every living person is a product of their circumstances, as are any choices they've made since being old enough to make choices.
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Dec 4, 2017 04:31
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Mike Rowe is a vastly entertaining person to watch ploying his schtick, but it turns out he's also kind of a nitwit sometimes and virtually everything he has to say about employment and work ethic is...questionable at best. He's anti-union and seems to be anti-regulation to some extent, while he's also talking out the other side of his mouth about how tough and dangerous jobs are and how that needs to be improved. He talks about people not being paid enough for doing everyday labor that needs to be done and about how constraining job mobility and availability is, but then says that you should never ever complain about a job and if the job is bad you should just pack up and leave it as though everyone living paycheck to paycheck has that option. He probably means well, I guess, but he kind of gets exploited as a useful idiot by right-wing types that are more than happy to suppress the people Mike Rowe keeps talking up. Also, there's a repeated strain of friction coming up here that seems to arise solely from the definition of the term 'work', which seems to sort of fluidly morph between meaning 'non-vegetative personal activity' and 'busting your rear end for the sole purpose of being paid in a position you hate' depending on whose using it; I don't think anyone is actually saying most people would vegetate all day on UBI any more than anyone is saying that most people would work in mostly the same way at mostly the same jobs while on UBI.
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Dec 4, 2017 04:36
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