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All things considered, I feel like the small possibility of a nuclear breach is fairly balanced by the small chance that the threat will speed up the end of the ongoing genocide by famine.
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Dec 4, 2017 19:19
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:It has the word "nuclear" in it, so the facts really don't matter as much as the perception. I know. I was actually considering editing my post to say that it was dumb of them anyways because people would freak out about anything with the word "nuclear" getting attacked but you beat me to it. I've just been around nuclear plants for basically my entire life and misinformation about them pisses me off like basically nothing else.
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Dec 4, 2017 19:19
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CommieGIR posted:I understand that, trust me. But when you double down and point to Fukushima, best buckle up. We're kinda talking past each other. I'm aware that, like you said, a lovely Houthi missile strike will do fuckall to a nuclear plant 99 times out of 100. At the same time the average person will hear "missile attack against nuclear power plant" and start picturing Godzilla's Camel Spider Cousin.
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Dec 4, 2017 19:24
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Haystack posted:All things considered, I feel like the small possibility of a nuclear breach is fairly balanced by the small chance that the threat will speed up the end of the ongoing genocide by famine. Pretty much, that's the larger issue with threatening to strike a nuclear plant. It'll just draw out the siege even further and the Saudis will dig in further. Vincent Van Goatse posted:At the same time the average person will hear "missile attack against nuclear power plant" and start picturing Godzilla's Camel Spider Cousin. Its about time, they are kind of running out of ideas for Godzilla's next opponent. That and Gamera is friend of all children.
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Dec 4, 2017 19:24
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CommieGIR posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu1YFshFuI4 These sort of spent fuel casks are used worldwide now. And that's from 1978, multiple improvements have been made. thanks friend, i saw that video that they show on official tours of every nuclear power plant too unfortunately, the supermajority of onsite spent nuclear fuel is stored in cooling pools, not in dry casks i am impressed by your confidence that the UAE is running that plant as safely and professionally as can be TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Dec 4, 2017 |
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Dec 4, 2017 19:25
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Is it really that bad? Like, is anyone going to do something to them that they wouldn't have done otherwise? At least undermining the economy of their opponents, by making them appear an unsafe investment, has the potential to convince them to back down. Threatening to blow up nuclear plants does not play well on the world stage. It could easily be used as justification to attack them, to impose sanctions, or what have you. Countries that were/are on the fence may move closer to being actively hostile. Its dumb because you could take out the "nuclear" part without changing the meaning. Houthis being able to launch missiles at UAE is a big deal. To intimidate them, and to scare off potential trading partners, it doesn't much matter where the missile goes. A port would have been even better, and way less controversial.
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Dec 4, 2017 19:27
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CommieGIR posted:Pretty much, that's the larger issue with threatening to strike a nuclear plant. It'll just draw out the siege even further and the Saudis will dig in further. Yeah, in terms of public perception an armed group claiming they're attacking a nuclear plant is up there with targeting an orphanage staffed by puppies in terms of how the world will react.
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Dec 4, 2017 19:27
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At the risk of going to jail, the news have been quite about nuclear plants since announcing they would build the plant, there is no news about it being complete, i believe its also still not functional either since they hiked electricity prices by 20%
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Dec 4, 2017 19:34
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Count Roland posted:Threatening to blow up nuclear plants does not play well on the world stage. It could easily be used as justification to attack them, to impose sanctions, or what have you. Countries that were/are on the fence may move closer to being actively hostile.
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Dec 4, 2017 19:36
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A Buttery Pastry posted:If adding "nuclear" to the attack makes people react more strongly, wouldn't the same apply to its power as a deterrence against investments? Like, people could believe their investments were safe if they just hit random poo poo, but if they think a strike can turn the whole country into some nuclear wasteland then that seems like it'd incentivize investing somewhere else? If people think the threat is credible, yeah, but that just provides even more incentive to the target of such threats to ensure that they can't be carried out.
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Dec 4, 2017 19:37
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:thanks friend, i saw that video that they show on official tours of every nuclear power plant too Awesome, so it'll blow up in some cooling ponds and nothing will really happen other than contaminating the cooling pond water which is treated as contaminated anyways? And you think there is open cooling pools in the UAE? Do you know what the average temperature is there? Bonus: I don't think any of UAE plants are even active till 2018. So none of them are even fueled. Unit one was still only 98% completed as of September of this year, Operation start and first criticality will be 2018. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barakah_nuclear_power_plant CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Dec 4, 2017 |
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Dec 4, 2017 19:50
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Russia has always been a true friend of the YPG. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk8nZOArDKI http://en.hawarnews.com/levgini-we-coordinated-with-ypg-to-liberate-east-of-euphrates-will-restore-life-stability-to-it/ quote:NEWS DESK- Russian commands met on Monday with the General Command of the People Protection Units (YPG) in Deir-ez-Zor countryside, and confirmed that in coordination with YPG and the Arab tribes, they are completing the military operations to eliminate the remaining sites to IS gangs in the eastern countryside of Deir ez-Zor, and to form a consensus to restore life to the liberated areas.
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Dec 4, 2017 19:58
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If there's ever going to be any kind of non-violent reconciliation between the SDF's territory (or oil) and the regime, it's going to have to come about because the YPG trusts Russia to hold the regime to its guarantees, so if I'm Assad I don't hate that Russia and the YPG are buds. The YPG has an incentive too since they might trust Russia to guarantee them against Turkey longer than they think the US will be interested in doing so, or they could just be leveraging Russia against the US to see who can give them the better deal. The US won't do anything to help Afrin anyway though.
Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Dec 4, 2017 |
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Dec 4, 2017 20:22
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A Buttery Pastry posted:If adding "nuclear" to the attack makes people react more strongly, wouldn't the same apply to its power as a deterrence against investments? Like, people could believe their investments were safe if they just hit random poo poo, but if they think a strike can turn the whole country into some nuclear wasteland then that seems like it'd incentivize investing somewhere else? Maybe but I doubt it. If you're planning on investing billions in a place I assume you're doing a bit of homework. Any analysis would show the threat is minimal. But invoking the word nuclear gives wonderful ammunition against the houthis. If they resort to attacking nuclear plants, what's to say they wouldn't use dirty bomb material from Iran against the gulf states-- or so the think tanks will ask.
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Dec 4, 2017 20:23
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I love how the Saudis now want to force Mahmoud Abbas to accept a hilariously awful 'peace deal' between them and Israel, and if he doesn't agree to it they will just replace him with someone who will sign it. https://twitter.com/mahamyahya/status/937694636616880129
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Dec 4, 2017 20:28
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FlamingLiberal posted:I love how the Saudis now want to force Mahmoud Abbas to accept a hilariously awful 'peace deal' between them and Israel, and if he doesn't agree to it they will just replace him with someone who will sign it. Israel and fascism are one enemy against all free Arabs and muslims. God drat them all. If the Palestinians are forced to surrender then Saudi Arabia just handed Arab and Islamic history to the loving ayatollahs once and for all. It will be the murderers of the Iranian regime that who will receive the historical high ground, fuuuck thaaaaat. Al-Saqr fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Dec 4, 2017 |
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Dec 4, 2017 20:31
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Sinteres posted:If there's ever going to be any kind of non-violent reconciliation between the SDF's territory (or oil) and the regime, it's going to have to come about because the YPG trusts Russia to hold the regime to its guarantees, so if I'm Assad I don't hate that Russia and the YPG are buds. The YPG has an incentive too since they might trust Russia to guarantee them against Turkey longer than they think the US will be interested in doing so, or they could just be leveraging Russia against the US to see who can give them the better deal. The US won't do anything to help Afrin anyway though.  Russia is probably the only faction that can, in the long term, prevent conflict between the East Euphrates region and Assad/Turkey. Perhaps the US might have been able to do so under competent leadership but that is clearly not an option and neither is staying there indefinitely. Russia might also be interested in good relations with the Kurds to act as a check against Assad running away from their interests once the war is finished. It also adds another chip against Turkey. Overall a promising development that hopefully is sincere. Another item is that the Kurds represent the same sort of federation that Russia has been pushing in Ukraine for years now. Russia's intervention in Syria has always been linked to Ukraine.
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Dec 4, 2017 20:35
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It sure seems like MBS wants an Arab/Israeli vs. Iranian war....
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Dec 4, 2017 20:46
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FlamingLiberal posted:It sure seems like MBS wants an Arab/Israeli vs. Iranian war.... He's never going to get a dumber and more easily flattered president than the one he's conned now. YOLO
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Dec 4, 2017 20:48
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FlamingLiberal posted:It sure seems like MBS wants an Arab/Israeli vs. Iranian war.... It's the same bargain Arab fascist animals do, signing peace treaties with Israel is the ultimate guarantee against pesky things like freedom and democracy, since at that point America and Israel will stop at nothing to make sure your grip on power never falters. Al-Saqr fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Dec 4, 2017 |
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Dec 4, 2017 20:49
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Al-Saqr posted:It's the same bargain Arab fascist animals do, signing peace treaties with Israel is the ultimate guarantee against pesky things like freedom and democracy, since at that point America and Israel will stop at nothing to make sure your grip on power never falters. Until the entire thing shatters and events spiral out of control. Here's to the Forever War.
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Dec 4, 2017 20:55
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why is this man still around? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwFaSpca_3Q
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Dec 4, 2017 21:03
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FlamingLiberal posted:It sure seems like MBS wants an Arab/Israeli vs. Iranian war.... I'm wondering if MBS is an Iranian agent, given how every single thing he attempts makes KSA looks super evil and seems to benefit Iran. MBS makes friends with Saleh and a day later the man's dead. Coincidence? I think not! 
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Dec 4, 2017 21:22
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Shageletic posted:why is this man still around? Easy, he says what people in DC want, and therefore he never had to be right or really even coherent. (The really surprising thing is he has been working at this since the 1980s, and still as a college freshmen level knowledge of the Middle East.)
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Dec 4, 2017 21:25
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Yeah, he is a useful idiot for the powerful/rich with a knack only for remaining useful.
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Dec 4, 2017 21:34
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All the think tank types in DC I know have been laughing at Friedman. I don't know anyone who takes him seriously.
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Dec 4, 2017 21:37
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He was just at the Saban center, so he still has an audience. In fact, that entire conference is a pretty great watch. Also, Netanyahu and MbS coming out with the same plan (the Palestinians get bupkis) is similarly gold. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Dec 4, 2017 |
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Dec 4, 2017 21:43
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Al-Saqr posted:Israel and fascism are one enemy against all free Arabs and muslims. God drat them all. If the Palestinians are forced to surrender then Saudi Arabia just handed Arab and Islamic history to the loving ayatollahs once and for all. It will be the murderers of the Iranian regime that who will receive the historical high ground, fuuuck thaaaaat. I'd have thought that as soon as they built the hotel that overshadows the Kabaa...alas I was wrong. For non-muslims in the thread, I can't stress how deeply ingrained in Islamic cultures Palestinian solidarity is and how bad the "optics" of a move like this is. Almost every jummah I have ever been to has had a dua that has included Palestine, regardless of culture, denomination, or location (in the US, admittedly)*. Depending on if/how the news of this sort of backstabbing gets out, there'll be pretty severe blowback for KSA from all sorts of alignments within Dar Al-Islam. There's really no upside on any of this except to build an anti-Iranian coalition with complete and utter tunnel vision. *Al Sadr, does this sort of culture that constant refers to the plight of the Palestinians exist in KSA anymore? I'm curious how many people there would react if the news gets to them.
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Dec 4, 2017 21:47
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Ardennes posted:He was just at the Saban center, so he still has an audience. In fact, that entire conference is a pretty great watch.
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Dec 4, 2017 22:09
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FlamingLiberal posted:I mean, if you want to look at it in purely pragmatic terms, the Palestinians are not a major concern of the Saudis. They are just a bargaining chip. Yeah, and man....are the Saudis cashing in all their chips. I have a hard time believing that completely selling the Palestinians down the river isn't going to have cost in public perception especially with everything else going on. Also, the "proposal" is a pretty much unconditional surrender by Palestinians, there is no future for them if they accept that plan.
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Dec 4, 2017 22:24
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https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/937801449421066240
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Dec 4, 2017 23:55
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the news is if Syria actually strikes back, which they wont. Israel doing what it wants and bombing what it wants in Syria isnt news.
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Dec 4, 2017 23:56
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Count Roland posted:Threatening to blow up nuclear plants does not play well on the world stage. It could easily be used as justification to attack them, to impose sanctions, or what have you. Countries that were/are on the fence may move closer to being actively hostile. The world is letting the Sauds starve and murder Yemeni civilians. I doubt they give a poo poo about how it plays at this point.
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Dec 5, 2017 00:07
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woops wrong thred Al-Saqr fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Dec 5, 2017 |
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Dec 5, 2017 00:13
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I think they're just greedy, which justifies using those means to exploit people.
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Dec 5, 2017 00:21
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guidoanselmi posted:I'd have thought that as soon as they built the hotel that overshadows the Kabaa...alas I was wrong. Almost every week here in Bahrain.
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Dec 5, 2017 02:08
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That Barnard story seems like internal PA politicking more than anything else, it doesn't sound plausible.
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Dec 5, 2017 02:51
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The Houthis probably saw this one coming months in advance. THey always despised Saleh and he tried to kill them all before so yeah. Why would Slahe do this while literally inside the capital of the Houthis I cannot fathom.
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Dec 5, 2017 05:52
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lollontee posted:The Houthis probably saw this one coming months in advance. THey always despised Saleh and he tried to kill them all before so yeah. Why would Slahe do this while literally inside the capital of the Houthis I cannot fathom. I was surprised the houthis even allied with him, he killed the current leader's father. They probably didn't trust him from day one, and during the conflict most of the combat was conducted by the houthis, while news bunched them together usually (here in the gulf) there was no mention of the yemeni army loyal to saleh doing anything.
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Dec 5, 2017 06:47
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Shageletic posted:why is this man still around?
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