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WENTZ WAGON NUI posted:I'll ignore the bad faith in that last line and point out this is a plea on behalf of pure subjectivism--apparently coherence is like cold or beauty in that it ultimately rests on one's blahblahblah. Pushing the discussion back to "is discussion even possible?" Well, yeah. That was kind of the point of my post at the top of the page. Unless you establish a baseline to talk about all you're going to get is "this film was badly edited" "no it wasnt" "its badly edited, look at this video" "actually it's not badly edited, look at this video". It's less of an argument and more two groups of people discussing separate topics, but maliciously towards each other. Somehow.
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Dec 4, 2017 22:24
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Most people doing postmortems on Justice League are attempting to decipher Hollywood horseshit by adopting a fanboy mindset (Zack Snyder is an objectivist!! Everyone hates WB! And we have to get rid of the grimdark!), which is entirely the wrong kind of moronic. You need to think like an executive. For future reference since I see it a lot it's a quartet. Feel free to imagine an old timey bunch of singers crooning about snapping Zod's neck. 
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Dec 4, 2017 22:26
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bring back old gbs posted:I never called the guy smart You directly compared his "actual critique" to the "faux deep reads" from the "CineD hivemind". I guess that's not literally a stupid/smart dichotomy but am I really way off base here for making that leap? And, again, I didn't say anything about the dude's critique or his opinions on SS (which I agree is a bad movie) which is why I keep getting kind of gobsmacked that you're accusing me first of "projecting" and now for not "celebrating other weirdos coming in here to share their opinions". Like, the very thing I am defending here is the weirdos that you don't like and keep telling off for [bunch of strung together cineD memes]
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Dec 4, 2017 22:26
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By the way it's hilarious that everyone was ragging on Foldy for saying that Suicide Squad was such a mess that even people who liked it would miss a major character's death and everyone's response was "Slipknot wasn't a major character, who could he possible mean???" which I guess means that everyone completrely forgot Diablo's death .... probably because the film was such a mess that you totally forgot about it in amongst all that other crazy poo poo that was happening at the same time. Edit: I also totally forgot about it and only remembered because I looked up the plot on Wikipedia WENTZ WAGON NUI posted:He shoots a brick of C4 they chuck into Enchantress's big magic generator glowy blob that's powering her big floaty cannon which is carving up all the military's bases and hardware in orbit and at sea. Then she's like "ah nuts you ruined my plan but I'll still get you" and the fight keeps going.... IIRC..? lol gettin exposed in this thread as a bad movie rememberer The big floaty magic machine became vulnerable to physical attack because Incubus got blowed up and Enchantress got her heart cut out. After that happens she's left completely weakened and actually begs Katana to kill her so she can rejoin her dead brother Edit: and Incubus became vulnerable to physical attack because .... uh .... he used up all his magical powers fighting Aztec God-version Diablo to a strandstill? I guess??  Edit 2: the only reason I know that stuff was because I just looked up those scenes on Youtube Snowglobe of Doom fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Dec 4, 2017 |
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Dec 4, 2017 22:29
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:By the way it's hilarious that everyone was ragging on Foldy for saying that Suicide Squad was such a mess that even people who liked it would miss a major character's death and everyone's response was "Slipknot wasn't a major character, who could he possible mean???" which I guess means that everyone completrely forgot Diablo's death .... probably because the film was such a mess that you totally forgot about it in amongst all that other crazy poo poo that was happening at the same time. In fairness if you asked me who are the "major characters" of Suicide Squad I would say it's just Harley and Deadshot, and everybody else is clearly guest-star tier. But yeah I haven't watched the movie in two years and as I just proved don't remember it all that well so whatever v v
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Dec 4, 2017 22:32
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:By the way it's hilarious that everyone was ragging on Foldy for saying that Suicide Squad was such a mess that even people who liked it would miss a major character's death and everyone's response was "Slipknot wasn't a major character, who could he possible mean???" which I guess means that everyone completrely forgot Diablo's death .... probably because the film was such a mess that you totally forgot about it in amongst all that other crazy poo poo that was happening at the same time. I think people didn't say Diablo because they didn't miss his death, so he couldn't have been the major character whose death you could easily miss. I got the entire ending wrong and even I remember Diablos death. He went Super Saiyan Oozaru Flame Form to fight like a rock monster and asploded himself to finish it off.
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Dec 4, 2017 22:32
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i definitely remembered diablo dying because i was pumped the mexican dude got a cool big moment where he got to die on his own terms i was assuming there was some third death besides him and slipknot i couldn't remember offhand e: see this is why the weird guessing game is so bad for discussions, we're not even all on the same page as to who was referring to what because dude couldn't just come out and say 'people don't remember diablo dying' like a normal person
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Dec 4, 2017 22:33
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Truth: MoS: Very Good aside from the obvious Goyer-isms. BvS: Intriguing, but the last 3rd sucks and it's barely a movie SS: Bad, obviously murdered by studio meddling. Unclear if Ayer's movie would have been good either though JL: No one saw this, lol.
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Dec 4, 2017 22:34
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This is like the first time Suicide Squad has been discussed at length since it's release. This is bananas. Remember the whiplash of having a string of pop songs play over the intros of the major players in the first 20 minutes of the film? Weird loving times that.
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Dec 4, 2017 22:35
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Al Borland Corp. posted:I think people didn't say Diablo because they didn't miss his death, so he couldn't have been the major character whose death you could easily miss. Yeahhhhhhh. I was about to say...I didn't like the film and I didn't miss Diablo's death, it was literally the centerpiece of the entire climax. Unless you fell asleep or went to the bathroom how could you miss it?
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Dec 4, 2017 22:38
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Sir Kodiak posted:Just post who you mean. This guessing game is stupid. Bit late on this, but the only thing that comes to mind here is Joker and the helicopter crash - that appears to be the off-screen death being referenced. It's been awhile since i've watched SS though. However it's still not confusingly conveyed within the film, just left open ended. The format of the ‘big’ villain to be defeated in the end is an imitation of Avengers and so on; but it simply serves to illustrate the actions of Waller and Batman, since it’s their Suicide Squad ‘franchise’ after all - they're the ones keeping them in this purgatory.
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Dec 4, 2017 22:39
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brawleh posted:Bit late on this, but the only thing that comes to mind here is Joker and the helicopter crash - that appears to be the off-screen death being referenced. It's been awhile since i've watched SS though. Nah he comes back at the end and breaks Harley out of jail.
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Dec 4, 2017 22:39
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Shageletic posted:Do you think Waller's characterization recovered from her murdering that whole troupe of employees tho? Honestly curious, never bothered to watch SS. oh yeah, didn't she like waste all her subordinates once the squad rescued her? seems perfectly in line with her characterization imo. she's an american intelligence agent; seeing her kill a bunch of her own employees is pretty much expected
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Dec 4, 2017 22:41
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Amazing fact: Suicide Squad is so forgettable that Margot Robie dies and no one remembers. I mean the actress is actually killed on screen but everyone had left the theater by then.
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Dec 4, 2017 22:42
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:By the way it's hilarious that everyone was ragging on Foldy for saying that Suicide Squad was such a mess that even people who liked it would miss a major character's death and everyone's response was "Slipknot wasn't a major character, who could he possible mean???" which I guess means that everyone completrely forgot Diablo's death .... probably because the film was such a mess that you totally forgot about it in amongst all that other crazy poo poo that was happening at the same time. Nah, like I said, it's because Diablo's death is clearly portrayed. There's a back-and-forth in the dialog where Deadshot tells him to get away from the blast, and Diablo says to blow it while he's still there. There's shots back and forth between Diablo and the bomb. It shows Diablo and Incubus being exploded. It then shows Harley reacting to Diablo dying, screaming "noooooo!" and poo poo. It's loving hammered in, not subtle at all. It's like teasing that BvS has a major character death that no one noticed and your example ends up being Superman. Absolutely ridiculous.
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Dec 4, 2017 22:43
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FoldableHuman: This movie's editing is really bad, to the point that even people who like it have trouble sorting out what happens in what order Thread: No you're wrong the editing is fine <pages of arguing amongst each other about a basic sequence of events> Harley cuts Enchantress open with Katana's sword, pulls the heart out, everyone runs around doing nothing for a solid 20 seconds, then Harley throws the C4 belt into the light pillar and Deadshot shoots it out of the air, knocking Enchantress down while her flying junk doughnut disintegrates. Boomerang finds the heart under a bench, Flagg rips it up, Moone breaks out of the mud cocoon, Waller shows up, everyone goes back to prison and no one anywhere in the epilogue even briefly acknowledges that Diablo is dead, despite the emotional metaphor of the film being "a dysfunctional family that learns to love each other." Edit: it's not the moments up to the explosion that matter, it's the aftermath. No one reacts, and Croc, who was in the same vicinity of the blast, just walks out of it like, you know, a comic book character. The fact that people in this very thread are suggesting Griggs and Joker instead of "well, Diablo and Slipknot die, do any other main characters die?" is a pretty good indicator of my point. FoldableHuman fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Dec 4, 2017 |
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Dec 4, 2017 22:44
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Well, Zod died too. Shows you how much of an impression he made!
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Dec 4, 2017 22:45
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For the record, Diablo's death is a super good bit of commentary on the idea of continuity in Superhero Franchise movies, as SMG highlighted earlier. Here is one character showing signs of growth and becoming his true, heroic, self. For this, he's punished by death. It's great. The thing that irks me the most about Dan's arguments, and the view of the greater critical consensus in general, is the idea that these movies can just be dismissed out of hand, that any meaning one could pull from them is just "cloudwatching", and not something that was deliberately put there. The idea of "quality" as a threshold, that only select movies get to say something, reeks of the worst gatekeeping bullshit, and it's completely antithetical to my vision of what movie studies are.
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Dec 4, 2017 22:45
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FoldableHuman posted:FoldableHuman: This movie's editing is really bad, to the point that even people who like it have trouble sorting out what happens in what order Buddy, you can forget the events of a movie without a movie being poorly edited. Sir Kodiak fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Dec 4, 2017 |
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Dec 4, 2017 22:45
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The metaphor of the film is even more basic than that: be careful what you wish for.
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Dec 4, 2017 22:45
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drat i thought diablo just like burned his way back to hell or some poo poo
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Dec 4, 2017 22:46
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FoldableHuman posted:FoldableHuman: This movie's editing is really bad, to the point that even people who like it have trouble sorting out what happens in what order That's a pretty funny point re: Diablo. I suspect the answer you'll get here is: "It's an ironic metacommentary on how they're NOT family."
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Dec 4, 2017 22:48
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FoldableHuman posted:FoldableHuman: This movie's editing is really bad, to the point that even people who like it have trouble sorting out what happens in what order So is what you're saying here: That when you said "even people who really liked (the moive)...would miss out on the death of a key character" what you actually were saying was that the characters in the film don't mention his death after it happens? And not the thing you were doing the weird little riddle with: that people who watched the film somehow "missed" the death that was the centerpiece of the movie's climax?
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Dec 4, 2017 22:49
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The irony is the ending of the film. They all get what they wish for. To me, an example of weird editing is "why exactly does the film corroborate Harley's story that Batman just wants to gently caress her?" but even that has a pretty straightforward answer.
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Dec 4, 2017 22:49
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I don't get why you would criticize a movie by performing helpless stupidity louder and louder and louder and daring everyone else to point it out.
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Dec 4, 2017 22:51
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It's not like any of us are really big suicide Squad fans either.
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Dec 4, 2017 22:57
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Suicide Squad is a great idea of a movie Shame about what they released
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Dec 4, 2017 22:58
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Although I generally agree with the idea that you should double down on your strengths and not try to be a friend to all, Suicide Squad was hosed to death by the studio to make it more marketable and it was a wild box office success. I'm sure the mixed to negative reaction worried them but they probably hoped they could kind of get away with it again in Justice League.
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Dec 4, 2017 23:03
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Have some supposedly details about Lord & Miller's Flashquote:Set one year after JUSTICE LEAGUE. I would've liked to see this film.
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Dec 4, 2017 23:04
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Remember all the weird promotional poo poo the studio pulled out to try and drum up interest in Suicide Squad? The tattoo parlor at a convention where they were giving away free tattoos, both temporary & permanent? The photos of all the cast members giving each other SKWAD tattoos?
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Dec 4, 2017 23:07
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Re: that Flash leak: Gosh, that sounds as light and as fluffy as you could possibly ask for. Would like to have seen that, or at least read the script.
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Dec 4, 2017 23:07
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Guy A. Person posted:And not the thing you were doing the weird little riddle with: that people who watched the film somehow "missed" the death that was the centerpiece of the movie's climax? I mean I think if anything, there's a legit criticism of that scene in that it belabors the point of Diablo's sacrifice a little too much. HUNDU and SMG are right in that "the point" is that like the rest of the team he's getting what he wished for in a pretty fundamentally cruel way, and I think it weakens that thread somewhat to ground the scene so much in his emotional perspective by having that many characters assess the situation somberly and buy into the gravity of his sacrifice in the moments leading up to it
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Dec 4, 2017 23:07
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Al Borland Corp. posted:It's not like any of us are really big suicide Squad fans either. I am!
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Dec 4, 2017 23:09
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I've written and deleted like three posts trying to put into words why I like Suicide a lot in spite of its flaws without using the words "dark," "goofy," "texture," or "hip hop" and I can't do it
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Dec 4, 2017 23:11
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WENTZ WAGON NUI posted:I've written and deleted like three posts trying to put into words why I like Suicide a lot in spite of its flaws without using the words "dark," "goofy," "texture," or "hip hop" and I can't do it "Flava"
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Dec 4, 2017 23:12
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I really liked that comic con trailer they begrudgingly put online. But that's the most I've liked of that film.
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Dec 4, 2017 23:14
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Guy A. Person posted:So is what you're saying here: I have to agree. This was really weird phrasing and the fact that people weren't able to parse this says more about their ability to read Dan's mind than their ability to read the film. I didn't guess Diablo because I remember his death.
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Dec 4, 2017 23:15
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Dammit now I'm tempted to go back and watch Suicide Squad again. Edit: should watch the theatrical version or the extended release?
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Dec 4, 2017 23:32
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The extended release has like two added scenes that I can even remember there isn't a huge difference
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Dec 4, 2017 23:33
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Here's one frame from each shot in that sequence. Incubus has Diablo on the ropes:  Incubus is happy to have Diablo on the ropes:  Deadshot is unhappy Diablo is on the ropes:  Flag tells Diablo to get out of there:  Diablo tells Flag to blow the bomb:  Harley is concerned about this:  Flag looks to Deadshot for guidance:  Deadshot tells Flag to blow the bomb:  Flag tells Scott Eastwood's character to blow the bomb:  Harley is upset about this:  Scott Eastwood reaches to active the bomb:   Flag tells everyone to get down:  Everyone dives for cover:  Except for Diablo, who instead tells Incubus he's screwed:  Incubus is unhappy about this:  Scott Eastwood finishes activating the bomb:  Kaboom:  Not exactly a riddle what happens to Diablo.
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Dec 4, 2017 23:34
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