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 How can people see these numbers and be good with it? Literally 0 fucks given when it comes to finances it seems.
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Dec 4, 2017 18:24
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Would you pay $500,000 to keep your dog alive? No? Then stop calling people autists when you're just haggling over price.
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Dec 4, 2017 18:43
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Buying the points on resale makes the numbers a lot better, especially if you scoop up a ton of them during an economic downturn when everyone is defaulting on the 20% interest generous timeshare loans and high annual dues. I am not saying you should buy them, but if you want to have a room 5 minutes from the park entrance they are the cheapest option. You can also rent the points for around $12 a point on the resale market which is the way to go instead of owning. Disney is still a stupidly expensive vacation of extremely low quality but 3-7 year old kids seem to like $30 hotdogs.
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Dec 4, 2017 18:46
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:Would you pay $500,000 to keep your dog alive? Would you pay $1,000 for a new Nissan Altima? Then stop calling someone BWM when you’re just haggling over the price.
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Dec 4, 2017 18:49
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22 Eargesplitten posted:Would you pay $1,000 for a new Nissan Altima? Then stop calling someone BWM when you’re just haggling over the price. Magnitude of price is basically the whole point of BWM.
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Dec 4, 2017 18:51
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H110Hawk posted:So for $1282+/year in forever prices, plus $4,800/year for 10 years you too can hopefully spend 6 nights in a Disney hotel. I assume plus park admission, food, & beverage? Hahahahhahhaha no. (Food and beverage...sorta? DVC places have kitchens/kitchenettes. But you're paying out of pocket for park food, minus some discounts.) FAKE EDIT: wait poo poo is this the Disney thread or the BWM thread I've lost track.
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Dec 4, 2017 18:54
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Subjunctive posted:Magnitude of price is basically the whole point of BWM. Exactly. So unless his point was not to use ableist insults (valid point), his post was just as dumb.
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Dec 4, 2017 18:57
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22 Eargesplitten posted:Exactly. So unless his point was not to use ableist insults (valid point), his post was just as dumb. The claims of "autism" were about morality and capacity for emotions, not BWM.
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Dec 4, 2017 19:02
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Reminds me of the old joke https://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/03/07/haggling/ quote:As in the story of a conversation between a very sophisticated gentleman and a very respectable lady at a party. They are talking about prostitution, “Well,” says the gentleman, “just for the sake of our argument, suppose I offered you $1000—would you spend the night with me?” The lady, smiling coquettishly: “Who knows—I might very well!” The gentleman: “Now suppose I offer you $10 for the night?” The lady: “But what do you think I am?” The gentleman: “We’ve already established what you are. Now we’re just haggling over the price.” Re: Disney timeshares, the rule on timeshares is that they are a crappy idea for nearly everybody, but there's a very narrow subset of population where timeshares could possibly make sense financially. If you're the type of person who vacations at the same place every year at the same time of year, and the proposed timeshare is the same kind of accommodation you normally pay for, then it might make sense for you at the right price. In practice, there are very few people that it makes sense for. My inlaws bought a timeshare 3 or 4 years ago and it is already an albatross. They were terrible candidates for timeshares anyway, because they don't have a fixed vacation spot every year, and when they do go on vacation they're more the type that go camping or bring an air mattress and stay with a family member. So it's not like they were already spending $2k a year on hotel accommodations. The "points" towards different properties is such a scam system too. The point value of stuff of course is priced with demand, so getting a high demand location/week combination might exhaust your whole year of points. And, oh, you may need to book 3-4 months in advance for even medium demand stuff. It's also Sunk Cost Fallacy writ large. An example, they were going for a weekend to San Francisco to support their son in a triathlon. They booked 6 weeks in advance, and the nearest property with availability was 30 miles away in Santa Cruz, which required them to spend money to rent a car and then try to find parking inside the city (which is a torturous process itself). If they didn't have that stupid timeshare, they could have just gotten a room for $200 somewhere inside the city where they could take public transportation everywhere, instead of spending an extra 4+ hours each day on their vacation in a rental car. I expect the Disney timeshares are a "savings" only when you compare it to regular sticker price on their on-resort hotel properties, which start at Disneyland at ~$250/night during low demand times before fees and taxes and usually have minimum stays. These don't include park tickets, BTW. You can find hotels for half that price within 1/2 mile walking distance from the parks (and you're going to be walking all day anyway)
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Dec 4, 2017 19:14
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Subjunctive posted:The claims of "autism" were about morality and capacity for emotions, not BWM. edit: canyoneer posted:Reminds me of the old joke This was absolutely my intent  Dwight Eisenhower fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Dec 4, 2017 |
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Dec 4, 2017 19:24
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Most people buy timeshares when their kids are ~10 and then are stuck with them after only eight years when they get sick or their kids no longer vacation with them. So they can be transiently appropriate but that tends to not be so longterm.
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Dec 4, 2017 19:31
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I'm autistic as hell (whoa big shocker  ) and I'd be euthanizing a pet to stop its suffering before I needed to for cost reasons because I can work a budget, but me and my rainman brain didn't get an animal I can't afford to have in the first place because expense is a consideration in getting a creature that's wholly dependent on me for its well-being. gently caress us sperglords, right?I'm sick and loving tired of the 'beep boop I'm an autistic meat computer' coming from people who supposedly have the ability to understand the emotions of other people but act like psychopaths anyway. Autistics have emotions and care plenty for others, we just can't recognize what's going on in other people's heads. You people can intuitively understand what's happening with other people, and you choose to ignore it, but we're the ones worth making fun of all the time? Ok.
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Dec 4, 2017 19:36
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Boxman posted:Hahahahhahhaha no. Yeah, $6,000/year plus park admission (or let's be honest, annual pass), food, and drink. I live a short drive from Anaheim and I hope to take my kid to Disney on my own dime fewer times than I can count on one hand during his childhood. (On someone else's dime go hog wild.)
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Dec 4, 2017 19:45
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Thanks Dwight, Subjunctive and Nancy for doing what I failed to do 2 pages ago which is strongly condemn this bullshit ableism rhetoric arising from the idea that human behaviors and emotions are often at odds with the mathematically optimal economic outcome.
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Dec 4, 2017 20:07
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Cognitive biases are a very real thing and you're a big dumb idiot if you don't see how it relates to being BWM.
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Dec 4, 2017 20:13
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Hoodwinker posted:Cognitive biases are a very real thing and you're a big dumb idiot if you don't see how it relates to being BWM. Lighten up, Francis.
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Dec 4, 2017 20:22
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Today I overheard the probably below $10/hr worker behind the deli counter saying how she "had to have the new Jordans" and she "doesn't care if they are $300," because "I spend that on my hair every month, I just have to not do my hair this month."
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Dec 4, 2017 20:48
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NancyPants posted:What Living on $100,000 a Year Looks Like I swear NPR does this on a routine basis. They had an All Things Considered story some years back about a 19 year who was on disability for anxiety whose mom was also on disability. The daughter got a job at a daycare and was really enjoying working and getting out of the house until she saw her disability payments drop by the same amount he earned. She quickly quit. So you had multi-generational dependencies, questionable disability status, and the subject immediately quits the moment they realized they couldn't keep their disability + a paycheck. I have no idea whether this lady deserved disability or not, but the story almost felt like a false flag just to rile people up. NPR did another one about a guy who said cops targeted him and it sounded like he may have had a point, except the cop who stopped him found drugs. Like they couldn't have found a sketchy guy who didn't have drugs sewed into the waistband of his basketball shorts? The cop in question got fired for profiling, but the one example they used was where the profiling actually resulted in a lawful arrest.
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Dec 4, 2017 20:52
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Krispy Wafer posted:I have no idea whether this lady deserved disability or not Is disability fraud really a thing? Up here there was a whole kerfuffle about health plan fraud, but the numbers showed that the enforcement apparatus was costing much more than the (trivial) amount of fraud that actually happened.
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Dec 4, 2017 21:12
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Subjunctive posted:Is disability fraud really a thing? Up here there was a whole kerfuffle about health plan fraud, but the numbers showed that the enforcement apparatus was costing much more than the (trivial) amount of fraud that actually happened. What do you mean exactly by healthcare fraud? NJ was just shown to have taken an extra $600 million for medicare, and it's like every other month where some company had taken an extra couple hundred million.
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Dec 4, 2017 21:14
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Harry posted:What do you mean exactly by healthcare fraud? NJ was just shown to have taken an extra $600 million for medicare, and it's like every other month where some company had taken an extra couple hundred million. Individuals who weren't eligible for the provincial health insurance program using various fakery to get services paid for. Similar to the "welfare queen" political meme in the states a while back, if I'm remembering it correctly.
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Dec 4, 2017 21:16
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Krispy Wafer posted:So you had multi-generational dependencies, questionable disability status, and the subject immediately quits the moment they realized they couldn't keep their disability + a paycheck. I have no idea whether this lady deserved disability or not, but the story almost felt like a false flag just to rile people up. Who wants to work for free? If she lost an equal amount of disability to the wages she earned, she probably saw a dip in income due to needing to run a car/take the bus/buy work clothes/pay more taxes/pay her own health insurance. Would you volunteer to take care of a lot of drooling screaming infants and pay handsomely for the privilege? Especially if you had anxiety and it was a real effort to make yourself get up in the morning? Weaning off disability needs to be done gradually.
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Dec 4, 2017 21:21
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Subjunctive posted:Individuals who weren't eligible for the provincial health insurance program using various fakery to get services paid for. Similar to the "welfare queen" political meme in the states a while back, if I'm remembering it correctly. Ah, no idea. Supposedly a lot of America somehow became disabled after 2008, especially in parts where the economy has been trashed. http://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/
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Dec 4, 2017 21:22
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Harry posted:Ah, no idea. Supposedly a lot of America somehow became disabled after 2008, especially in parts where the economy has been trashed. Having been on disability for depression, I can imagine that happening, yeah.
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Dec 4, 2017 21:24
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Subjunctive posted:Having been on disability for depression, I can imagine that happening, yeah. wait, aren't you the rich as gently caress one or was it before you struck it rich
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Dec 4, 2017 21:33
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bob dobbs is dead posted:wait, aren't you the rich as gently caress one I was working at the time, and I went on the LTD provided by our insurance plan for several months. Depression doesn't really care about your bank balance.
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Dec 4, 2017 21:34
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BarbarianElephant posted:Who wants to work for free? If she lost an equal amount of disability to the wages she earned, she probably saw a dip in income due to needing to run a car/take the bus/buy work clothes/pay more taxes/pay her own health insurance. Would you volunteer to take care of a lot of drooling screaming infants and pay handsomely for the privilege? Especially if you had anxiety and it was a real effort to make yourself get up in the morning? I referenced the story because NancyPants mentioned the NPR story about the 100k/year couple made them look bad even if it wasn't trying to. In this case NPR made this woman out to be every right wing talk show hosts' boogie-man when I think they intended her to be sympathetic. And it's not like they didn't have time to go into more details. NPR has long-form reporting and this story was over 10 minutes long. There may have been other factors, but it sounded like getting out and working helped her mental state. As long as they were only reducing her disability by the amount she earned, then she's getting a net positive even with higher expenses. But I'm sure people on disability live in constant fear they'll somehow be reclassified and kicked off the rolls, so reducing her benefit probably resulted in a knee-jerk reaction. But that wasn't mentioned. Subjunctive posted:Is disability fraud really a thing? Up here there was a whole kerfuffle about health plan fraud, but the numbers showed that the enforcement apparatus was costing much more than the (trivial) amount of fraud that actually happened. Oh yeah. In flyover states and Appalachia people will go to the town doctor and get put on disability when they turn 18. Not everywhere, obviously. But there are an awful lot of disabled people in poor areas without jobs. It essentially took over where welfare left off.
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Dec 4, 2017 21:38
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I don't think anyone has really done a great job with analysis of these numbers yet but it turns out there's a whole constellation of low education, low status white men in their 20's and 30's who have basically opted out of the labor force through mechanisms like questionable disability and who mostly spend their time on low cost entertainment like video games. It's why an "unemployment rate" of 3% is so loving misleading. Beware: truncated axes! https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNU01300028
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Dec 4, 2017 21:47
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Subjunctive posted:I was working at the time, and I went on the LTD provided by our insurance plan for several months. Depression doesn't really care about your bank balance. actually i don't know any rich as gently caress peeps w/o long periods of depression that sometimes they hide it's just that, you know, they don't go on disability or need to on account of being rich as gently caress
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Dec 4, 2017 21:54
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bob dobbs is dead posted:actually i don't know any rich as gently caress peeps w/o long periods of depression that sometimes they hide if some insurance company is going to pay me 70% of my salary, versus not doing that, I'm gonna let them also I hadn't vested much yet, and had given most of it away
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Dec 4, 2017 21:57
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Subjunctive posted:Is disability fraud really a thing? Up here there was a whole kerfuffle about health plan fraud, but the numbers showed that the enforcement apparatus was costing much more than the (trivial) amount of fraud that actually happened. This is a MASSIVE thing The social security administration has a huge fraud investigation arm that is perpetually understaffed/underfunded. Fraud is often huge within particular communities or neighborhoods because friends share tips on how best to bilk the system.
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Dec 4, 2017 21:59
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Not a Children posted:This is a MASSIVE thing There was a community where a ton of people all seemed to be losing fingers and toes a year or two after taking out independent disability policies. Don't know if that story is true or not, but the disability guys at my old firm always talked about it.
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Dec 4, 2017 22:09
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One aspect of starving the beast is that those enforcers that make sure the program is doing its job are understaffed and overworked, which causes politicians to cry that it's not working let's cut their funding repeat ad nauseum.
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Dec 4, 2017 22:11
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Audax posted:One aspect of starving the beast is that those enforcers that make sure the program is doing its job are understaffed and overworked, which causes politicians to cry that it's not working let's cut their funding repeat ad nauseum. 100% what I was getting at. It's the same reason they starve the IRS. I was told by someone working at SSA (so, granted, a biased source) that they bring in about $50 of otherwise wasted revenue for every dollar they invest in investigating fraud. With a return like that it would seem like throwing money at protecting your program is a no-brainer, but, welp
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Dec 4, 2017 22:14
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I think this counts as BWM. The intersection of money and important life decisions leads to some weird-rear end poo poo. http://healthland.time.com/2011/08/19/baby-selling-scam-focuses-attention-on-surrogacy/ quote:Court documents lay out a plan that Erickson and Chambers came up with six years ago, before including Neiman in 2008: the women would arrange for surrogates to fly to Ukraine to be impregnated with donor embryos. When the surrogates were about 12 weeks along, the babies would be offered to prospective parents. Once a couple was found, Erickson would file a document in a California court, fraudulently claiming that the surrogacy agreement was in place from the start. The black market babies sold for $100k-$150k. These off-the-rack babies are apparently more expensive than bespoke because you get the baby sooner, can specify gender and they are white.
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Dec 4, 2017 22:37
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Imagine doing that, but with clones so you could start your own little organ farming op. And no Michael Bay didn't do it first.
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Dec 4, 2017 22:45
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Why does BFC have such high mod turnover? Comedy forum... dead?!
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Dec 4, 2017 22:51
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Tomfoolery posted:I think this counts as BWM. The intersection of money and important life decisions leads to some weird-rear end poo poo. Surrogacy is an ethical and legal minefield. Like that Australian couple who had a surrogate in Thailand carry their twins. One of the babies was shown on an ultrasound to have Downs Syndrome, so they told the surrogate to abort one of them. Surrogate didn't, and then the bio parents came and took the non-Downs twin and abandoned the Downs baby with this impoverished Thai surrogate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Thai_surrogacy_controversy
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Dec 4, 2017 22:52
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If autistic and uninformed libertarian arguments are wine, then this essay entitled "On baby selling" is the finest vintage: https://www.libertarianism.org/publications/essays/baby-selling I recommend you read the article before you look below at the author: Written in 1979 by Walter Block, a professor of economics at Loyola University (a reasonably good university in New Orleans) quote:We can—and should—go even further. If there were no government intervention—no price controls—in the “baby market,” prices there would have the same coordinating function they have in other markets. If, for example, the supply of babies exceeded the demand, prices would tend to fall.. As prices fell, the number of potential buyers would, of course, rise. Where would the process lead? Toward the point where the number of babies offered for adoption equalled the number that prospective parents wished to adopt. John Smith, would you agree that comparing professional human breeders to brood mares is "aphorism and verbal taunt" and we will eventually come to accept our baby factories the same way we're come to grips with horseless carriages? quote:At one point, Baker tries to imagine what would happen if “baby selling” were legal. To her, the results would be nothing short of horrible. A past master of the aphorism and verbal taunt, she castigates unprohibited adoptions with appellations such as “stud service”, “piece of merchandise”, “breeding animal”, and “baby farm”, and raises the spectre of artificial insemination as an everyday occurence.
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Dec 4, 2017 23:04
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Tomfoolery posted:I recommend you read the article before you look below at the author: I would have put a bit of money on Peter Thiel.
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Dec 4, 2017 23:10
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