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Arist posted:
I feel like something that confused me about the opening of the game suddenly just clicked.
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Nov 29, 2017 00:33
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bman in 2288 posted:I bet you tell kids that Santa doesn't exist just for the sake of having them grow up a little bit, and not because it's hilarious watching their entire world fall apart. One of my cousins informed his sister that there was no Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, or Tooth Fairy on the same day, causing her to run home from school crying  . Sometimes I wonder how that relationship didn't wind up going Caine and Abel, although which one would have done the murdering is an open question.
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Nov 29, 2017 02:15
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Her mom is Katherine McBride?
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Nov 29, 2017 02:19
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Wakaba always gave off a "Pulp Fiction Uma Thurman" vibe.
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Nov 29, 2017 02:23
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GunnerJ posted:I feel like something that confused me about the opening of the game suddenly just clicked. I'm at the same spot as the LP now and that same thing just clicked for me as well. Looking forward to seeing if that was it. Maybe it's because I've played too much MGSV but I have a stupidly off the wall theory at the moment and part of me wants to be right (but am most likely wrong).
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Nov 29, 2017 03:25
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Ok, I'll forgive her for that stupid cross-hand typing in the trailer. Obviously the trauma of her past caused her to pick up odd quirks. But yea, as someone who does a lot of typing and PC support, that entire part of the opening made me 
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Nov 29, 2017 04:32
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I'm just surprised Futaba isn't pulled into her own Palace. Here I thought Morgana shouting at Ryuji not to activate the app there would have amounted to some sort of conflict, since it'd make some sort of sense. I can almost see this as the writers adding it in to justify the animated cutscene taking place in the desert, but I think the gang activating the app outside Sojiro's house would have led them to the desert anyway.
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Nov 29, 2017 05:47
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RedMagus posted:Ok, I'll forgive her for that stupid cross-hand typing in the trailer. Obviously the trauma of her past caused her to pick up odd quirks. Futaba's a great character, but there are definitely aspects of her character that are enraging in a technical aspect. I'd also say she's the most unrealistic of all the P4/5 main characters (P3 has enough ludicrous poo poo I'm not getting into that), but we can come back to that at a later point when we know more about her.
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Nov 29, 2017 06:13
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Part 75: 7/26: Double Event Music: The Days When My Mother Was There (Another Version)   That proves she sees us as a threat now. Let’s be careful!First things first, let’s head over to the Velvet Room and fuse up some Personas. Music: Aria of the Soul  First things first, a Take-Minakata from Matador and Jikokuten. We give it Dekunda (nullifies all stat penalties on the party), Swift Strike, Defense Master (free Rakukaja at the start of every battle), and Sukukaja.   I will become your new mask and free your heart from the chains that keep its power in check…Take-Minakata is one of the sons of Okuninushi who got his arms cut off after losing the first sumo match to Take-Mikazuchi (Kanji’s Persona in Persona 4), then became a guardian spirit. It’s pretty metal.  Next up is Sui-Ki from Orthrus and Matador. Most of the 60k yen we have remaining at this point is going to go to Persona resummon fees.   Overflowing power has joined you along with that new mask…Jeez, this guy loves to talk himself up. Sui-Ki is yet another of the four oni controlled by Fujiwara-no-Chikata. It’s named after water and can freeze anything.   Finally, we create Ame-no-Uzume from Sui-Ki and Kin-Ki, with Kin-Ki having the Dodge Psy we need for the next rank of Strength.   I shall be your new face. Now come, let us rejoice in the melody that draws forth true might.Ame-no-Uzume is the goddess of dawn and revelry in the Shinto religion, who brought the sun goddess Amaterasu out of hiding.  And that’s all we need for the request!   *chuckle* Not bad. That’s another one done. Heh, you’re pretty interesting, Inmate! Aw, shucks.  I must say… as Caroline noted before, this list is quite well thought-out. The tasks are designed to push you toward achieving your goals while also measuring your true strength. Hm? I guess so… Hey, Inmate! What’re your thoughts on these tasks!? Such a response is proof that they are the proper difficulty. Oh well. We should give him the next one. Let’s see here... Huh…!? Wh-What the… It feels like I’ve seen the writing on this list before… Do you speak of the penmanship? Yeah. Dammit… I can’t remember! Do you recognize it, Justine? (reading off the clipboard) “Compliment him after he finishes the next task. Don’t spoil him though. Do it just like you practiced, with a piercing glare and angled hips...” W-Wait, not that! Those are my notes! I, uh, no… I mean… It seems you have been rather looking forward to the inmate’s visits. Never mind that! I-I’m talking about the handwriting of the tasks themselves! Stop yanking my chain! Hm… Now that you mention it, I do feel as though I’ve seen that handwriting somewhere before... Keep your nose out of other people’s business, Inmate! To be honest, the sense of deja vu I feel when reading this list is certainly concerning to me. Who made this list… and why? Whaddya mean? The goal’s pretty obvious. It’s to help train the inmate. Beyond that though, what exactly is the purpose of training him? ...Rehabilitation? But that is merely our master’s order. Someone other than him wrote this list, correct? …… ...Then let’s just assume there’s some purpose we don’t know about. If we’re right in our assumption, the purpose’ll be clear once he finishes the whole list, right? ...I suppose you have a point. Hearing something logical from you is like a cool rush of air amidst the sweltering heat of summer. Now then, let us reward you for successfully completing our task. We will now grant you access to the Guillotine Booster. Think of it as a way to increase the number of Personas you can make with the Group Guillotine. Plus, now you can do some super strong fusions using five or six Personas. You should be able to figure it out with some effort, Inmate. I mean, you’ve come this far, right? We trust you will employ it wisely. I feel like my bond with Caroline and Justine is growing deeper... Not a huge reward, but having more Persona options is always nice. Now then, allow me to give you your next assignment. Please note that the next privilege we provide for you will be quite powerful indeed. Therefore, we will require that you complete three tasks before you can receive it. *chuckle* All right, here’s task number one! You need only speak with us once you obtain it. We will be able to tell. See if you can live up to our expectations! Before we can check out the new fusions available, though, we are interrupted by Justine. As a result of your daily efforts, the number of Personas in the Inmate Registry has risen. Our master is pleased with your progress and has yet again bestowed a special privilege. We’re giving you a discount on summoning from the Inmate Registry! You’d better be thankful, Inmate! If you fill the registry with even more names, our master says he can arrange further privileges for you. Work hard toward your rehabilitation. Our reward for filling 25% of the Inmate Registry is… a 10% discount. Better than nothing, I guess.  And here we see the new fusions available. They’re all far, far above our level and thus unavailable. Now, we can head into the pyramid. But what is a pyramid, really? Well, to answer that question, let’s take a nice long look at the Wikipedia page:  Hey guys! Ari here. I’ve secretly edited my own Let’s Play into my brother’s. I don’t think he’ll notice though, he doesn’t seem to read these before posting them, which explains why he makes so many mistakes. We’ll be playing Sphinx and the Cursed Mummy, an old PS2 game I dug out of my brother’s collection. It’s all based in Egyptian mythology, which I don’t really care about but whatever. We’ll see as much as we can or at least as much as I care to show before I get bored.  This is Sphinx. He’s boring and sucks and I’m going to ignore him as much as possible.  These other two are Imhotep and Horus. Horus is a jerk and he smells bad.   He dies pretty early though, which is good.   All right, now to the good stuff. This is Tutankhamen, the real hero. Happy birthday!  First thing we need to do is pick what to wear. We can wear this blue shirt…  Or the pink one. My brother says that gender roles are outmoded constructs, whatever that means, so let’s go pink.  Except it doesn’t even let you!? BOOOOOOOOOOOO this game!  In my childish rage I smash this innocent flowerpot.  This causes the maid to move away from this wardrobe, which we can open to find this weird amulet.  All right, I’ll put on the dumb blue shirt.   Outside we talk to this creepy old lady who wants our amulets. Get your own! Anyway, there are… 8 of these things? Geez, that sounds exhausting. What to do?  Why, thank you YuGiOhFm2002 slash YuGiOhAngel! Also, shout out to the dude writing a walkthrough for this game on the original Xbox as late as 2011.  We also engage in other forms of recreation, such as chasing a crow around for a letter. Thrilling! At this point, I’m getting pretty bored so I skip around a bit.  This is our brother Akhenaten. He’s incredibly obviously evil and plotting to murder us. My brother wouldn’t do that. I hope.  I’m still mad about the maid not letting me wear the pink outfit, so I take it out on the silverware.  This Whole Thing Smacks Of Gender!   He’s evil? What a twist!   We find a key in the room where bro was being evil that lets us open the sarcof--scaroph--coffins we keep seeing around. Pretty morbid, but they actually let us—teleport? Yeah, okay.  Once we find all those amulets, we teleport straight into the middle of this weird demonic ceremony with big bro. It’s pretty goth. Then there’s this whole thing where the brother turns Tut into a mummy to like, steal his appearance or something, but the ceremony gets interrupted by Sphinx, and the evil dudes and mummy Tut get sucked into a huge portal that then explodes. It’s weird. Anyway, Tut’s dead. RIP. …And that’s why pyramids are the perfect thought-form incubator. Well, I learned a lot from that, didn’t you? Let’s finally enter this pyramid, then. Music: The Days When My Mother Was There  The giant boulder destroyed the stepping stones, so we’re forced to move around the side.   No point sittin’ around though. Whaddya wanna do, Joker? Not a bad idea. Considering how humongous this building is, there have to be other ways in. We will have to investigate every suspicious place we see, both inside the pyramid and out. Ugh, outside….!? You mean we gotta deal with that heat!? No complaining. Let’s begin our investigation right away. But as we make to leave...    We’re only here ‘cause we gotta be! I can’t believe you tried to drop a boulder on us! You want us to steal your goddamn Treasure or not? Hm, why don’t we make a deal? You wish to proceed further, yes? A deal, you say? There is a town nearby. I would like you to take back that which the bandit there stole from me. Oh yeah, I think I remember seeing a town on the way here. If you bring what was stolen back to me, I will give you a reward. I’ll even tell you how to proceed. Can’t you tell us any more details? Anything about this bandit, or what was stolen? You’ll learn all the information you need to know once you arrive. ...We’ll need to head outside if we want to go to the town. We can go when you’re ready, Joker.So much for investigating. Music: The Days When My Mother Was There (Another Version)  She said it’s nearby… We could probably see it from here, right? Good point. Let us observe the surroundings and search for any towns that may lie about here.  Yes, I can see what appear to be buildings over there. Want to head over to the town, Joker? It’s pretty far away, so this is my chance to shine! >Let’s go. It looks quite desolate… She said only bandits reside here, but still. There are also new enemies roaming about here. These are Sandman (Sandmans? Sandmen?), who use Wind, are weak to Electricity, and put party members to sleep, being the sandman and all. However, they also have another, more annoying tactic:  After a few turns, they’ll panic and try to run away. If we don’t defeat them in time, they’ll succeed.    That, or we can use one of our Thieves’ Guild charges to block them.  We choose not to, and the problem there is that it causes the security level to go up. Nothing major, though.  There’s also Anzu, which uses Wind as well and is weak to Gun and Nuclear. We’re going to grab one immediately, because in three levels or so it learns the Dekaja we need for the next Strength rank. Unfortunately, my attempts to get the experience needed to make it learn Dekaja will heavily stifle me going forward in a few ways. First, as I’m trying to facilitate two goals that are often in direct conflict, ending battles with All-out Attacks for maximum money gains and trying to keep Anzu on my person at the end of most (if not all) battles, I end up half-assing both. Second, Anzu is not a great Persona. Its only offensive skill is Garula, and its only other useful skill is Masukukaja. Plus, it’s pretty fragile. Third, my understandable reluctance to use party members with redundant skill types means that Morgana’s Wind affinity benches him for most of the dungeon, causing him to not learn a critical skill for the next boss fight. All things considered, I’d probably have been better served just using Gallows, resummoning Anzu, and using Gallows again until it reached the level I needed, but I didn’t want to waste the money.  Heading into the square in the middle of town, we come across a new event.     Welcome to the desert, fellow trader. Hm? What does he mean by “trader”? We don’t care about your welcomes. You’re a bandit, right? Just cough up the thing you stole. ...Well, you’re gonna have to catch me if you want it. Me!? We’ll have time to talk later. Let’s go after him. We chase him down.   You’re too slow, moron. You’ll never catch me at this rate. He ran off again! Hurry up and catch him, fast! And again...  The bandit runs off once more.  We’ll never catch him if we do nothing but follow his path… We should corner him somewhere. Corner him? But how? Let’s use that square from earlier. We can sneak around him and trap him in there! This plan is really only as complicated as, “run around to the other side.”  He traps himself without much of a hassle. There he goes…! We finally chased him into the square! Perfect. He has nowhere else to run now… Let’s do this, Joker! Tch… Don’t even think about comin’ one step closer. Heh, don’t be ridiculous. You’ve gotta let me go. I mean you guys came to raid that tomb too, right? Why don’t we work together and share the plunder?I dunno, the last time a Shadow offered to help me out he turned out to be a huge pervert with an annoying voice. Don’t talk to us like we’re the same as you! We came here to save Futaba-chan. Now give us back what you stole! So you wanna do this no matter what, huh? Well in that case… I guess I don’t have a choice! Raging Bird God Music: Keeper of Lust  Okay, so the Raging Bird God is actually a pretty annoying fight. It’s got two main skills it likes to use:   (Ma)Garudyne, which does Heavy Wind damage, which is especially bad for Ryuji…   …and Brain Jack, which is a full-party Brainwash skill. It’s probably the real danger, especially if it hits Makoto. The good news is that Anzu repels Wind, meaning that even though the Raging Bird God nullifies Wind, it pretty much can only hurt Joker indirectly through other Brainwashed party members. Music: The Days When My Mother Was There (Another Version)   Is this… some kind of papyrus parchment? It looks like there’s something written inside. Hey, no peeking at a girl’s belongings without permission! Y’know, just what the hell’s happenin’ in her heart? There’s this bandit, those weird voiced sayin’ “you killed her,” and who knows what else… It’s a total freakin’ mess. Futaba’s supposed to be the queen of this Palace, but even she can’t control it? I don’t know… I’ve never seen a case like this…Well, let’s really sit and think this through. Clearly it’s well worth our time to diagnose this fictional character, especially based on what little we’ve seen, and thus I say-- When we last left off, Tut was dead.  Yeah, rip. Anyway, Sphinx is now in Abydos. How’s that going?  What? That’s dumb!  Hi birdlady!  “Imbecile” is my middle name! Jump in, Sphinx! ...Oh.  Tut’s brother survived, whisked away to this evil castle...  ...And is revealed to be a different obviously evil dude!  Also Horus is alive, which is a huge downer. I’m not gonna stop posting that picture though, because I love it too much.  BIRDS  Sphinx rejoins with Imhotep, who says that part of Tut’s soul Sphinx recovered from the ceremony can be used to briefly bring him back in mummy form, which will be useful for… spying and stuff.  Also the agent of this plan is this random basket which Imhotep brings to life and will teleport to Tut, because why not, right?  Bas… Ket? This game is a crime.  Anyway, the Mummy now has to find items to help Sphinx outside of the castle, and these are easily the best, most creative parts of the game. Take this treasure chest, for example:   OH GOD IT WAS ACTUALLY PAIN Now that the Mummy is somehow carrying an electric charge, he can bring power to different objects.    Like this… thing? Which fires him out of a cannon! For some reason!  But that’s not all the Mummy can do, besides bomb at the box office, har har! He can also...   Die! Actually, no:   He just gets crushed flat for a period of time.  Now he can walk through these bars!  Look at how happy he is! Aww! (This game ends in a cliffhanger that will never be resolved)  Also we can set him on fire so he can burn things. (Give me fuel, give me fire, give me that which I desire)  Once we complete the level, the Mummy conveniently runs out of time and is transported back to where his body fell, for some reason. (This game was not thought out very well) And so the Mummy is dead once more. May God have mercy on his soul. ...And that is the exact combination of disorders I think Futaba has, including several I just made up right now. Thank you for your time.   We’ve completed Futaba-chan’s request. Let’s go see her again. Sounds good. I’m curious about that reward too!Music: The Days When My Mother Was There  Well done. It is yours now. Wait, what…? Didn’t you want us to get it back because it’s important? Why are you letting them just do whatever they want? This is your Palace, isn’t it? All that matters is that the map is now yours. Just come further in and… Oh. The room shakes briefly. What in the…?  AH poo poo Goddammiiiiiiiiiiit!Music: Run, Run, Run!   Quicksand! Everyone, swim with all your might!This is like something out of a dumb adventure serial. Just like this cliffhanger!
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Dec 3, 2017 00:33
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The Days When My Mother Was There is one of my favorite themes in the game.
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Dec 3, 2017 00:57
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I was a little disappointed the distant village didn't amount to much. Figured maybe you'd have to talk to NPCs, collect clues to solve riddles inside the pyramid or something. This is still one of my favorite Palaces though. My parents rented Sphinx and the Cursed Mummy for me from Blockbuster once. I felt ripped off despite not actually paying for it.
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Dec 3, 2017 01:41
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Arist, your brother keeps sticking this weird japanese game in between parts of your Sphinx Let's play
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Dec 3, 2017 02:23
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All I remember about Sphinx and the Cursed Mummy was that it was one of the first games I played that looked and felt like it's development had been rushed to hell and back. Also there was a really nasty bug that corrupted your entire playthrough if you used the wrong save point.
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Dec 3, 2017 02:34
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Ari, why do you even have this game? Oh and I guess shadow Futaba’s weird refusal to actually let us help her despite actively asking for it is a thing too. It’s probably supposed to be a commentary on how people with certain conditions can reject even definite help while stuck in a bad place, but the game isn’t quite deep enough for it so it just juts out
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Dec 3, 2017 02:36
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I've had this crackpot theory that the Desert Bandit is supposed to be Cognitive Sojiro, but that's probably wrong. Certainly an interesting idea, at least.
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Dec 3, 2017 02:59
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Think of all the grain Futaba's storing in that pyramid.
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Dec 3, 2017 03:40
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GeneX posted:Ari, why do you even have this game? When exactly in the series has a Shadow ever acted in a way that it's originator would like?
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Dec 3, 2017 06:55
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GeneX posted:Ari, why do you even have this game? Shadows are the personification of a persons repressed personality traits and emotional issues and boy oh boy does Futaba have some issues.
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Dec 3, 2017 07:10
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Futaba's shadow acting weird checks out, far as I figure. People with severe emotional and mental issues can and do reach out for help and then slap away the help the second it makes any headway. Fear is a powerful force, and Futaba has displayed both fear of others and a massive guilt complex. It's way, way too easy to turn away from growth and assistance when things that have quite literally defined most of her childhood have that kind of hold on her.
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Dec 3, 2017 08:09
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Asking for help, but then pushing them away until they forced their way in, at which point she cooperated a little but not much, is what Futaba did in the real world too.
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Dec 3, 2017 08:24
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And Futaba also refused to see the doctor and she's doing the same thing here.
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Dec 3, 2017 15:37
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Yeah, the mummy segments were very Wario Land. I'm surprised we don't see more of that in video games.
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Dec 3, 2017 16:41
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Drakenel posted:Futaba's shadow acting weird checks out, far as I figure. People with severe emotional and mental issues can and do reach out for help and then slap away the help the second it makes any headway. Fear is a powerful force, and Futaba has displayed both fear of others and a massive guilt complex. It's way, way too easy to turn away from growth and assistance when things that have quite literally defined most of her childhood have that kind of hold on her. Good post. Mental illness is very pervasive and a lot of sufferers want and need help but will still push it away for all sorts of reasons, they may even know they need help but feel like they don't deserve it. So far Futaba is a pretty good representation of someone suffering from depression and survivor's guilt. This game more than most of the other Personas has a weird Jekyll and Hyde thing going with the writing. Sometimes they'll throw out a really nuanced and interesting viewpoint, and sometimes they bash us over the head with GIRL=SEX or being interrogated about every single person you ever met. It's confusing.
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Dec 4, 2017 03:42
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The weird Ari intervals are becoming the best part of this LP
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Dec 4, 2017 14:21
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catching up, and yeah there's definitely an extremely jarring tonal shift - especially concerning Ann, the girl sexually harassed and nearly got blackmailed into sleeping with Komeshida being the constant target of gross fanservice shots and the whole thing with Yusuke's attempt to force Ann to pose nude just quietly getting dropped. Not to mention the sheer amount of 'Haha GAAAAAAY' jokes. I feel like it's way more jarring in this game because of the social justice tone it's taking with the plot. When it is on point, it really is on point, but it's misses are way more distracting,
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Dec 5, 2017 02:36
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Robindaybird posted:catching up, and yeah there's definitely an extremely jarring tonal shift - especially concerning Ann, the girl sexually harassed and nearly got blackmailed into sleeping with Komeshida being the constant target of gross fanservice shots and the whole thing with Yusuke's attempt to force Ann to pose nude just quietly getting dropped. Not to mention the sheer amount of 'Haha GAAAAAAY' jokes. This whole post reminded me of this video, which feels more or less like how Persona 5 handles this kind of thing.
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Dec 5, 2017 04:20
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Robindaybird posted:catching up, and yeah there's definitely an extremely jarring tonal shift - especially concerning Ann, the girl sexually harassed and nearly got blackmailed into sleeping with Komeshida being the constant target of gross fanservice shots and the whole thing with Yusuke's attempt to force Ann to pose nude just quietly getting dropped. Not to mention the sheer amount of 'Haha GAAAAAAY' jokes. I agree that it's not handled or treated well but I can almost see what they're going for with Ann. Kamoshida, who is in a position of power and a creep and all that, is rightly treated as a monster for his treatment of Ann, and the other students. However all the fanservice shots are in theory from the standpoint of being a teenager and her peer, not in a position of power over her and trying to force her into something, that's at least the narrative difference as far as I can tell. Basically the game is suggesting it's okay and appropriate for Ann's peers and friends to find her attractive, it's not okay for Kamoshida to do so; which is kind of a dumb thought process but there you go. Especially because in Mementos everyone will comment on Ann being attractive in one way or another. Notably Yusuke's sequence is treated alternatively as a joke and quite serious very rapidly because it's halfway between the two scenarios outlined above. Yusuke is the same age as Ann, a victim, and in theory his goal is "pure", he says he's interested in her only as a model at least 3 separate times which combined with his later narrative of desire to be a master artist makes it seem very likely he's being truthful; at the same time he's in a position of power over her after a certain point and is also a mouthpiece for Madarame, who is treated as a monster similar if not less as severe as Kamoshida. I also, based on Yusuke's later characterization and how the Madarame dungeon and his recruitment are handled, think that the whole thing is Yusuke emulating things he's seen Madarame do with conventionally attractive women, and as he gets more and more upset and frustrated with the Phantom Thieves he pushes himself more and more into copying Madarame. Hence he starts just interested in Ann as a model and changes that to the nude modelling after he becomes frustrated with them. Notice that Madarame is quite pleased when he finds out that Yusuke got out of the car to follow Ann. All of it's really quite awful and bad and nonsense still, and it's very jarring. But I can almost see what they're trying to do with it, it's just done really badly and probably shouldn't have been attempted in the first place. I am certainly not defending the writing around it, because it's really really bad, just seeing if I can find the thought process behind the writing.
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Dec 5, 2017 05:11
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it's beyond garbage to blackmail someone into getting nude for you in any circumstance whatsoever, so it doesn't really matter whether Yusuke's an art-obsessed idiot (who hasn't learned a thing given his later behavior) or a full-on creep
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Dec 5, 2017 06:43
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Yeah, even if he was emulating his scumbag teacher, it'd be nice if they at any point had someone pull him aside and teach about boundaries god drat it. Like how he left presuming he can stay at Ann's place without clearing it with her, he's clearly an idiot in social matters, but he seriously needs to be taught there are things he cannot just demand or expect to happen because he wants it.
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Dec 5, 2017 06:48
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Yusuke is socially awkward for sure, but he still could benefit from being slapped upside the head a few times.
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Dec 5, 2017 07:11
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Robindaybird posted:Yeah, even if he was emulating his scumbag teacher, it'd be nice if they at any point had someone pull him aside and teach about boundaries god drat it. Oh absolutely, Yusuke has other problems besides emulating his scumbag teacher, most of which come from what is almost certainly a very stunted and damaging upbringing. I was just giving thoughts on why the game's narrative and story is the way it is, not defending the bad bits but finding the reason they were written the way they are.
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Dec 5, 2017 07:34
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Robindaybird posted:Not to mention the sheer amount of 'Haha GAAAAAAY' jokes. yeah, all both of them
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Dec 5, 2017 07:57
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Closed-Down Pizza Parlor posted:yeah, all both of them Actually though, thinking about it. The only two really bad moments are just the couple in the red light district and the beach. The game otherwise has a good three-five moments I can think of where characters will mention "partners" as background fluff. But I guess circles be jerkin.
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Dec 5, 2017 12:46
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GoneRampant posted:Actually though, thinking about it. The only two really bad moments are just the couple in the red light district and the beach. The game otherwise has a good three-five moments I can think of where characters will mention "partners" as background fluff. This is after Persona 4 and 75% of the Yosuke/Kanji interactions. Calling out a well-established pattern is more than fair. In the same vein, the Ann stuff follows from the same type of bullshit that gave us, say, the Mystery Food X scenes in 4. I haven't played 3 myself; 4 and 5 are some of my favorite jRPGs and I love them dearly; it doesn't mean I can't call out the 1950s depiction of sexuality and gender roles. But I'm just the latest circlejerker I guess.
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Dec 5, 2017 17:29
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Now that I think about it, when the game brings up the whole "blackmailing Ann into posing nude" thing again, it's played for laughs. Like Ryuji brings it up to Ann with a smiling expression and she tells him, "Ughh, don't remind me of that!" And that's it. They never properly address the obvious terribleness of the situation. Yusuke gets away with being an rear end in a top hat and misses out on some very much needed character development because Ann being blackmailed is just so funny and needed and Yusuke is really socially inapt so it's okay.
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Dec 5, 2017 17:47
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there may be two in the game - but the first was really loving terrible, and then you got the one guy in the background constantly lusting after a boy that's half his age in very explicit 'I wanna bone him' language, and being on the heels of Persona 4 - and the anime's treatment of Kanji especially, that's a pattern, and a lovely one, and given how much the *Bad* gags in P4 keep cropping up, I don't have hopes they'll just drop the 'gays are super horny and weird, amiright?' And yeah, no one really addresses the fact Yusuke did try to blackmail Ann - they treat it like it was just a minor prank, and he later tries to impose himself on Ann, and after the initial 'wait, no -', it got brushed off to find Yusuke a place he can actually stay, not one person goes 'you can't just assume you can go wherever you please without asking'
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Dec 5, 2017 18:16
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They do tell him it's not okay. But they say it in a way that basically means, 'it's obviously not okay, why do you even think it's okay?' Because it's common sense to everyone else. I still think the worst scene (and my most hated scene) is the P4 hotspring scene. It's not even their turn to take a bath - yet the girls still throw stuff at them and refuse to apologise. I really hate it. Blademaster_Aio fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Dec 6, 2017 |
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Dec 6, 2017 01:47
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The problem with how the story tries to sexually manipulate Ann (Kamoshida and then Yusuke) and then kinda moves on, makes it seem like it didn't matter. If we weren't sitting here analyzing it, I would almost forget that these things are happening to her. I think that because each chapter focuses on new characters and Ann and the rest of the gang have to be demon-slaughtering heroes, the game kinda forces you to ignore their past events. Ann and Yusuke shouldn't get along as well as they do. It's also possible that Yusuke was only threatening everyone because he was angry about them attacking his teacher, and had no sexual intentions at all. It may have been more to humiliate Ann than to do anything else with her. He doesn't even talk about women much after his chapter ends. The other thing to keep in mind is that this game is about a bunch of high-school kids curing major mental and personality disorders in the heads of criminals by going into another world and beating up demons, which results in the subjects confessing and turning themselves in. Their powers and "Personas" come from them rebelling against these flaws. They may have doubts about their plans, but they never really doubt themselves individually.
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Dec 6, 2017 05:16
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i'm not suggesting that the gay jokes are okay (they super aren't and really grossed me out) but there really are just two of them the game would be better without them but it's not like they ruin things entirely the yusuke/ann treatment and ann in general are much more deserving of scrutiny and are a legitimate super sour note in (imo) an otherwise fantastic game
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Dec 6, 2017 05:45
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I'm gonna quote/paraphrase something someone said in the Bravely Default thread, which has a similar situation to the Ann/Yusuke problem mentioned here:quote:As for the nude modeling scene that keeps getting called out, THAT one stems from cultural differences affecting what is or isn't acceptable for humor, especially on the sexual front- This is the same Japan that, in the new Dragonball series, had Master Roshi win a fight through implying the intent of sexual assault against a female opponent and played it entirely for laughs. This year. It isn't tonal dissonance- it was intended to be entirely humorous, with Ann's distressed reaction being part of the 'joke.' Sexual humor with unwilling victims is something that seems to have not picked up the same stigma in Japan it has in a lot of the western world over the last ten years, although I don't know nearly enough about Japanese culture to read anything into it. It's more a problem in localization, and one that probably wasn't quite as obviously problematic in 2016 as it is now. Oh, and I'd like to clarify two things about these scenes: 1. In the anime driving cutscene, only Ryuji and Maaku were actually staring at Ann's boobs. Yusuke was looking at the see-through-via-sweat back of Makoto's shirt. 2. I actually know a friend, IRL, who, when confronted with even a mildly "homo" situation, will act basically like Yosuke. Call it demeaning or homophobic all you want, but it isn't at least unrealistic.
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Dec 6, 2017 06:22
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