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I like the stone ocean ending and I'll try to explain why I like it, though obvs this is just my opinion and it may or may not help you with figuring out and coming to terms with your issues with the ending. Jolyne accepts her fate in the same way that Baron Zeppeli does. She knows she's gonna die, but through death she will be yet another stepping stone towards the antagonist's downfall. I forget if it was confirmed or not whether SBR is the same world as the one at the end of part 6, but the end of part 6 world is meant to be a partially successful attempt at Pucci's heaven, a world where everyone knows their own fate and cannot change it in any way, shape, or form. Of course, Pucci stopped things early and started back up again due to Emporio's shenanigans so I don't know if Pucci ended up rebooting the world a second time or not. The ending of Part 6 is intended to be bittersweet. You've seen the sacrifices made in the old world, but thanks to those sacrifices, this new world has been made, and while Irene is not Jolyne, at the very least she represents the same person. They are different, with different experiences, different lives, and ultimately different people, but one would not exist without the other, and you can argue that this new world free from Dio's influence really only exists as a result of Pucci accidentally changing his own fate. Pucci wanted to turn the world into one that represented what he believed Dio wanted. Instead, all he did was fully remove Dio's influence from the world. For a person who believed that fate was truly on his side and that he could control his own fate, fate ended up having other plans in store. Jojo as a whole has always had the ongoing theme that death isn't something you can just come back from easily, with a rare 2 or so examples. Try not to look at Irene as an attempt to replace Jolyne, but more as the bittersweet reminder that Jolyne's sacrifice was not in vain, that a representation of her from another time, another place, another life, gets to live on without the pains and horrors that Jolyne suffered.
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Dec 4, 2017 06:36
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| # ? May 29, 2024 20:23 |
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Part 7 and 8 take place in an entirely new continuity that's not related to Part 6's ending.
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Dec 4, 2017 06:40
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I really can't blame anyone for disliking the ending to Stone Ocean. It has the most thematic clarity of any part up to that point, but when that theme is "fate as a prison" you're precluding any ending that isn't at least a little bleak.Two Tone Shoes posted:I always felt that, prior to Stone Ocean, the bad guy always clamoring about fate and destiny and how they knew they were right always got shut down. Stone Ocean recontextualizes a lot of how fate was presented in earlier parts, and the final chapters explicitly conclude that fate and destiny are factually real things in the story. As such, it's not that Dio, Kira, and Diavolo were wrong about fate choosing them. It's that fate did choose them, and later, fate chose to have them lose. Every character in Stone Ocean is made to suffer because of reasons outside of their control, and Stone Ocean is about how these characters then try to reassert control over their lives. It is also about stories, and how things in stories happens as storytellers narrate. Therefore, each character's efforts to control their lives are fruitless--the very fact that they are characters in a story means they can never succeed. This is what Dio means when he talks about God and fate. Pucci understood this to a point, and his ultimate goal was to make people aware of this fact. He hoped by making people aware of their eventually fate, they can make peace with this fact. This culminates in Made in Heaven, that has the ability to let the characters in the comic read upcoming panels. Jolyne's victory isn't allowing Emporio to defeat Pucci and her reward isn't to be reincarnated in a new world. He victory is allowing Emporio to bring the story to conclusion and her reward is that somewhere else, some other people are spared the "fate" of being characters in a story. She brings about a world without an author. The whole thing is more than a little inelegant, but I quite dig it, personally.
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Dec 4, 2017 06:45
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The people killed by Made in Heaven weren't reincarnated into the new world, so Irene, Anakiss, whatever Ermes and Weather's new names are and presumably a Jotaro equivalent take their place, and seem to be living in peace. But considering the other Joestars weren't killed by MiH I would assume they still exist as they did in the previous parts. I mean, the Rohan spinoffs all take place at a later date than Stone Ocean, right? Or am I wrong about the date?
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Dec 4, 2017 07:06
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FirstAidKite posted:I like the stone ocean ending and I'll try to explain why I like it, though obvs this is just my opinion and it may or may not help you with figuring out and coming to terms with your issues with the ending. The two things I came up with when reading this post was: Baron Zeppeli was a supporting character who died for the protagonist's sake, whereas Jolyne was the main character who died for the supporting character's sake. Maybe I should've liked Emporio more or something. It was this weird inversion of responsibility and focus that never happened before. I guess that could be the point but it's not a point I'm too fond on. Secondly is that the alternate reality where they're all clearly fated to meet up again (so fate's still a cage) lacked any of the sweet in the bittersweet you're talking about. The reason I like Jolyne is the story I read and not the meta story Araki was trying to pitch, I suppose.
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Dec 4, 2017 07:20
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Two Tone Shoes posted:The two things I came up with when reading this post was: Baron Zeppeli was a supporting character who died for the protagonist's sake, whereas Jolyne was the main character who died for the supporting character's sake. Maybe I should've liked Emporio more or something. It was this weird inversion of responsibility and focus that never happened before. I guess that could be the point but it's not a point I'm too fond on. It wasn't just emporio. Remember that it was a series of steps that culminated in this, steps that all stem back to Pucci's own inability to properly deal with the relationship between his sister and his brother. Everything tied together to bring him down in the end, much in a similar way to how the town of Morioh itself came together to obliterate Kira, the Earth rejected Kars, and Death rejected Diavolo. The alternate reality isn't one where fate has suddenly disappeared, it's just one where the cocoon that was the previous world has fully undergone metamorphosis into this new world. A butterfly and a caterpillar are not the same, but one can only exist with the sacrifice of the other, and with Pucci's death, the world can keep turning and the souls of those that died can be reborn and experience life without the curse of Dio hanging over them.
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Dec 4, 2017 07:35
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FirstAidKite posted:It wasn't just emporio. Remember that it was a series of steps that culminated in this, steps that all stem back to Pucci's own inability to properly deal with the relationship between his sister and his brother. Everything tied together to bring him down in the end, much in a similar way to how the town of Morioh itself came together to obliterate Kira, the Earth rejected Kars, and Death rejected Diavolo. Yeah but man I really liked that caterpillar. My main point about Emporio is that Emporio is the one who got to keep his memories and experiences of what happened stretching into the alternate universe. Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 07:38 on Dec 4, 2017 |
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Dec 4, 2017 07:36
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It's fitting, given that his stand was one that drudged up memories of what a place used to be like
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Dec 4, 2017 07:39
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Hitlersaurus Christ posted:The people killed by Made in Heaven weren't reincarnated into the new world, so Irene, Anakiss, whatever Ermes and Weather's new names are and presumably a Jotaro equivalent take their place, and seem to be living in peace. This was true for the world Pucci intentionally created by looping the universe, the one where Jotaro and Jolyne were replaced by people who didn't look quite like them. Their counterparts in the final chapter of Stone Ocean look identical to the original characters, though, so I think whatever rule about souls and reincarnation that applied to the first looped universe doesn't apply to the second.
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Dec 4, 2017 07:47
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Sir Ilpalazzo posted:This was true for the world Pucci intentionally created by looping the universe, the one where Jotaro and Jolyne were replaced by people who didn't look quite like them. Their counterparts in the final chapter of Stone Ocean look identical to the original characters, though, so I think whatever rule about souls and reincarnation that applied to the first looped universe doesn't apply to the second. Well, as long as parts 1-4 still happened in some fashion it's all good with me
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Dec 4, 2017 09:48
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IDK what yall are on about Stone Ocean was about snails and lesbians going to Disneyland (part 7 is great and has dinos you should read it)
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Dec 4, 2017 11:43
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Don't worry OP the best part and best JoJo are next
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Dec 4, 2017 12:39
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Jolyne goes out in the most Jolyne way anyway. She's not some little wimp who accepts her death is inevitable and just lets Pucci end it, she accepts her death is inevitable and goes out swinging. She is extremely cool and good. Hitlersaurus Christ posted:The people killed by Made in Heaven weren't reincarnated into the new world, so Irene, Anakiss, whatever Ermes and Weather's new names are and presumably a Jotaro equivalent take their place, and seem to be living in peace. But considering the other Joestars weren't killed by MiH I would assume they still exist as they did in the previous parts. I mean, the Rohan spinoffs all take place at a later date than Stone Ocean, right? Or am I wrong about the date? Stone Ocean's later than those that have been specifically dated, but a lot of them aren't. That said, Kishibe Rohan stuff isn't really pertinent to the main timeline or whatever so it's not like you'd ever make an argument in regards to how MiH works to those off screen based on those.
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Dec 4, 2017 13:01
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I don't understand how you could argue Fate isn't a real thing in Jojo because the villains lose. Mostly because for some unknown and magical reason Stand Users seem to be drawn together, especially in times where they're needed to band together for some reason. They in universe try to explain this away as 'Stand users attract Stand Users' but it seems to be something more than that. Almost as if some force is bringing them together to do a thing (outside of the fact that it's a written narrative of course.)
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Dec 4, 2017 16:53
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if you want to, you can pretend that immediately after the end of part 6, giorno said "nah gently caress this" and undid it with GER.
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Dec 4, 2017 16:57
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Inflammatory posted:if you want to, you can pretend that immediately after the end of part 6, giorno said "nah gently caress this" and undid it with GER. Giorno and Josuke not showing up in Part 6 is still a criminal loving mistake IMO. YOu spend the last two parts talking about the outer Joestar family and how DIO affected them and their lives and then in part 6 when it's the final Joestar Legacy Vs. Dio's legacy fight they don't show up? Giorno is especially baffling given those other Dio Kids show up. Though TBF The Morioh squad would loving destroy Pucci and even if they hosed up there's GER waiting for him.
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Dec 4, 2017 17:06
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Giorno and Josuke not showing up in Part 6 is still a criminal loving mistake IMO. YOu spend the last two parts talking about the outer Joestar family and how DIO affected them and their lives and then in part 6 when it's the final Joestar Legacy Vs. Dio's legacy fight they don't show up? Giorno is especially baffling given those other Dio Kids show up. Giorno, Josuke, Holly, and Shizuka went to Disney World instead of Cape Canaveral.
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Dec 4, 2017 17:12
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I think it even specifically mentions giorno is in Fl. at the time.
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Dec 4, 2017 17:33
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Also imo nothing is lost from the VIZ name changes, it's only a bit annoying in the sub when the sub mismatches because you're hearing them say Stand names in English.
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Dec 4, 2017 17:38
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EmmyOk posted:I think it even specifically mentions giorno is in Fl. at the time. giorno's nearby at disney world with his friends. he keeps looking towards cape canaveral or wherever the hell pucci has set up and just goes, "nah"
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Dec 4, 2017 17:49
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grieving for Gandalf posted:giorno's nearby at disney world with his friends. he keeps looking towards cape canaveral or wherever the hell pucci has set up and just goes, "nah" "Giorno I really think..." "Yeah once we get through this queue for space mountain I promise I'll sort it"
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Dec 4, 2017 17:52
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Giorno's final thoughts before Heaven Time: "Here's Mickey Mouse!"
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Dec 4, 2017 17:52
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Giorno was in California going school to school in association with the D.A.R.E. program. Edit: gently caress meant Florida Electric Phantasm fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Dec 4, 2017 |
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Dec 4, 2017 18:02
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The Giorno thing was on a volume filler page, it's not like it's a huge dangling thread in the main story that was a red herring.
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Dec 4, 2017 18:15
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Dio's sons being drawn to Pucci is a plot point and the entire part before Stone Ocean was about one of Dio's sons, so... it may not be a huge dangling thread but it's there. A lil' dangler. Kinda
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Dec 4, 2017 18:33
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Hitlersaurus Christ posted:Dio's sons being drawn to Pucci is a plot point and the entire part before Stone Ocean was about one of Dio's sons, so... it may not be a huge dangling thread but it's there. A lil' dangler. Kinda Dio's sons were "cursed" through having powerful stand abilities but either no understanding on how they function or otherwise having no guiding principle on how to constructively make use of them. Pucci takes advantage of this to manipulate them. Giorno already overcame this weakness. Not to say it wouldn't have been cool to have him show up, but it wouldn't have really jived with how Stone Ocean is so focused on being victimized by fate.
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Dec 4, 2017 21:07
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I don't think anyone knows how Giorno's abilities work either
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Dec 4, 2017 21:55
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grieving for Gandalf posted:I don't think anyone knows how Giorno's abilities work either Pucci just flipping through the details of Ungalo, Rikiel and Donatello's stands, turns the page, sees Gold Experience Requiem, decides Giorno really isn't worth the trouble.
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Dec 5, 2017 02:33
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grieving for Gandalf posted:I don't think anyone knows how Giorno's abilities work either https://twitter.com/WeedVentoAureo/status/756615828016160768?s=17
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Dec 5, 2017 09:07
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I like Giorno a lot because he was pretty much Jonathan's son but not as loving boring as his old man. My only problem with VA was that Purple Haze was insanely cool but Araki made it too strong so it only showed up once before he wrote it out  fake edit: Actually Araki Said that he had planned Fugo to come back as a villain but it made him too sad to do that so perhaps it's for the best 
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Dec 5, 2017 13:19
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EmmyOk posted:I like Giorno a lot because he was pretty much Jonathan's son but not as loving boring as his old man. My only problem with VA was that Purple Haze was insanely cool but Araki made it too strong so it only showed up once before he wrote it out I do appreciate that he had planned ahead for the fight by giving Giorno the antibodies
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Dec 5, 2017 16:01
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I'll never get tired of Abbacchio jokes.
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Dec 5, 2017 18:08
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EmmyOk posted:I like Giorno a lot because he was pretty much Jonathan's son but not as loving boring as his old man. My only problem with VA was that Purple Haze was insanely cool but Araki made it too strong so it only showed up once before he wrote it out If Araki hadn't written Fugo out we would never have gotten Purple Haze Feedback.
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Dec 6, 2017 07:38
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Too bad about spice girl being one and done
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Dec 6, 2017 07:53
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4HOArRePeI this is like the 4th jojo related ray sipe vid i've seen, so i guess he's a fan of the series
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Dec 9, 2017 07:24
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rip vento aureo anime, lmao
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Dec 13, 2017 14:24
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Johnny Joestar posted:rip vento aureo anime, lmao Did they say it wasn't gonna happen or something?
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Dec 13, 2017 14:40
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Literally nobody has said anything. David's new project got announced, which is a new Captain Tsubasa anime.
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Dec 13, 2017 14:42
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apparently davidpro is going to be doing some sports anime remake series in the coming year so if part 5 anime is going to happen i can bet it won't be until 2019
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Dec 13, 2017 14:42
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| # ? May 29, 2024 20:23 |
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Because an anime studio has never worked on multiple projects at once.
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Dec 13, 2017 14:47
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