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Why shouldn't they be Saturday morning cartoon villains? They're rewarded by the only people they care about, their mega donors, for doing so and the hardcore Trumpian base is proving that's better than loving children to them. Edit: nope, not gonna dog tax Google image search that one.
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Dec 5, 2017 14:31
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bird food bathtub posted:Why shouldn't they be Saturday morning cartoon villains? They're rewarded by the only people they care about, their mega donors, for doing so and the hardcore Trumpian base is proving that's better than loving children to them. What are you talking about? Trump's base is composed of people that would totally be okay with diddling children. Also child labor and specific women-as-property laws.
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Dec 5, 2017 15:04
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The Muppets On PCP posted:that segment is about 4% of the democratic electorate (down from 8% a few months ago) according to that harvard-harris poll that gets bandied about The anti-Bernie democrats are substantially more visible than their numbers would suggest because they are all: - People who would have had cabinet positions in a Clinton WH - Consultants and think tank operatives who are largely paid by corporations in order to make them seem "socially responsible" (Neera Tandem, etc). - Big corporate media people with a liberal rep (Joy Reid, etc). There are many other polls on top of the Harvard-Harris one that shows that Bernie is incredibly popular with democrats.
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Dec 5, 2017 16:01
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Hell, there's a good argument to be made that Bernie will have a comparatively easy path to victory in 2020, since we know from statistics that the youth vote more reliably as they age, so all of Sanders' younger supporters will be 4 years older and thus much more likely to vote. I also almost never see the fact that youth turnout went up for Obama being brought up, everyone just assumes that the youth vote is forever not worth pursuing. Feels like a Catch 22 kind of situation, where politicians never bother to cater to the young because they don't vote, thus the young have nothing to inspire them to vote.
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Dec 5, 2017 16:06
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WampaLord posted:Hell, there's a good argument to be made that Bernie will have a comparatively easy path to victory in 2020, since we know from statistics that the youth vote more reliably as they age, so all of Sanders' younger supporters will be 4 years older and thus much more likely to vote. It's almost like if you ignore all the issues young people care about or out right call them unreasonable for not buying into conservative policies without question (especially when they are taking the brunt of those policies) they aren't going to be that motivated to vote. It's the same dumbass logic that Democrats like to use where people should support them implicitly and show that they support them before they will actually start trying to push policies that people want (we have to trust them) instead of actually trying to put together a platform that energizes voters and proving they are acting in good faith. It's always the voters fault for the failure of leaders. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Dec 5, 2017 |
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Dec 5, 2017 16:10
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Would Bernie want to run being so old?
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Dec 5, 2017 16:12
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Mueller has just subpoenaed Trump’s bank records. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...e-idUSKBN1DZ0XN
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Dec 5, 2017 16:15
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Kraftwerk posted:Mueller has just subpoenaed Trump’s bank records. More importantly, Deutsche Bank has complied: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/05/donald-trump-bank-records-handed-over-robert-mueller
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Dec 5, 2017 16:22
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:More importantly, Deutsche Bank has complied: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/05/donald-trump-bank-records-handed-over-robert-mueller The big question is if DB would sell him out or cover for him?
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Dec 5, 2017 16:23
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They'd be idiots to lie to the US F.B.I in order to protect Donald Trump.
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Dec 5, 2017 16:25
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Would Bernie want to run being so old? I honestly don't know. And if he decides not to, that's cool, but my point remains that we have to stop treating the youth vote like a totally lost cause. I get that they don't vote as much as old people, but olds are set in their ways and are extremely hard to flip, whereas if you try to target the youth vote, you will create loyal voters for life. Brands understand this, that's why the 18-35 demographic is prized so highly by advertisers. If you get someone as a customer early, they're much more likely to stay a customer. Voting and party affiliation basically works the same way.
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Dec 5, 2017 16:30
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WampaLord posted:I honestly don't know. And if he decides not to, that's cool, but my point remains that we have to stop treating the youth vote like a totally lost cause. I get that they don't vote as much as old people, but olds are set in their ways and are extremely hard to flip, whereas if you try to target the youth vote, you will create loyal voters for life. I can still remember years ago people on this forum would smugly state that Democrats appealing to the young was a stupid idea since they don't vote and appealing to the middle class was a much safer bet. Then the middle class votes for Trump and the youth that helped Obama get elected didn't show up again for Clinton. The condescending attitude that just abandoning any policy that might interest young people because they don't vote and when they do that simply HAVE to vote Democrat was really irritating back then and anger inducing now that it in part led to the current administration. As I said earlier it ties into the idiotic strategy where Democrats feel they should only have to support things once voters have shown enough fealty to deserve it (and not even then really). Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Dec 5, 2017 |
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Dec 5, 2017 16:43
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Radish posted:the youth that helped Obama get elected This can't be stated enough. https://www.politico.com/story/2012/11/study-youth-vote-was-decisive-083510 quote:Mitt Romney would have cruised to the White House had he managed to split the youth vote with Barack Obama, according to an analysis released Wednesday. http://content.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1700525,00.html quote:But Obama clearly knew something others didn't, and that zig where others zagged now appears to have been a shrewd move on the path to a dramatic achievement. Obama's youth-oriented campaign drew under-25 voters to Thursday's Iowa caucuses in record numbers, and these first-time voters gave him most of his margin of victory. If you can attract younger voters, you loving win big. IMAGINE THAT poo poo!
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Dec 5, 2017 16:46
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Pokemon Go to the polls!!
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Dec 5, 2017 16:48
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Kraftwerk posted:The big question is if DB would sell him out or cover for him? they hate his guts and have for a very long time, you have no worries on that front
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Dec 5, 2017 16:55
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https://twitter.com/josheidelson/status/938021508517191680
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Dec 5, 2017 16:55
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Kraftwerk posted:The big question is if DB would sell him out or cover for him? They've already been fined previously, and Banks aren't stupid: You lie to the FBI, other banks are going to get wary about you. Its really hard to hide your books, because the German Government themselves are pissed at Trump, and if DB tried to hide something, the German Government would skin them alive.
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Dec 5, 2017 16:58
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Radish posted:I can still remember years ago people on this forum would smugly state that Democrats appealing to the young was a stupid idea since they don't vote and appealing to the middle class was a much safer bet. Then the middle class votes for Trump and the youth that helped Obama get elected didn't show up again for Clinton. The condescending attitude that just abandoning any policy that might interest young people because they don't vote and when they do that simply HAVE to vote Democrat was really irritating back then and anger inducing now that it in part led to the current administration. I mean the other problem is that the two biggest issues that would appeal to the youth vote - student loan debt relief and drug legalization - are political no goes among old people. Edit: well I say old people, but also the donor class, more accurately.
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Dec 5, 2017 17:16
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Lightning Knight posted:I mean the other problem is that the two biggest issues that would appeal to the youth vote - student loan debt relief and drug legalization - are political no goes among old people. Yeah I doubt old people give a crap about either of those anymore (only the super olds of 70+ years are against drug legalization at this point and it's overall popular). It's entirely the issue that their financial backers are pushing policies that the country either doesn't like or don't have strong feeling on but the Democrats feel like the money is more useful in regards to winning elections which Hillary in 2016 proved otherwise.
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Dec 5, 2017 17:35
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Radish posted:Yeah I doubt old people give a crap about either of those anymore (only the super olds of 70+ years are against drug legalization at this point and it's overall popular). It's entirely the issue that their financial backers are pushing policies that the country either doesn't like or don't have strong feeling on but the Democrats feel like the money is more useful in regards to winning elections which Hillary in 2016 proved otherwise. Is drug legalization popular, or is marijuana legalization popular? If we don't legalize other drugs most of the problems are going to remain in effect, after all.
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Dec 5, 2017 17:37
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Pretty sure it's marijuana now but that alone would be a huge deal and a place to start.
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Dec 5, 2017 17:42
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Ze Pollack posted:they hate his guts and have for a very long time, you have no worries on that front what is this based on?
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Dec 5, 2017 17:43
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Radish posted:Pretty sure it's marijuana now but that alone would be a huge deal and a place to start. Oh I agree, I’m just saying that we have a long way to go on that front. 
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Dec 5, 2017 18:01
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botany posted:what is this based on? you know all that "he's not actually worth jack poo poo" stuff Deutsche Bank was the source; Trump sued them to try to get out from under a debt and discovery revealed all that fun poo poo about how he's basically got nothing
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Dec 5, 2017 18:07
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Ze Pollack posted:you know all that "he's not actually worth jack poo poo" stuff i've never heard of that story i think. i still find it hard to believe that Deutsche Bank hates him personally. those criminal fuckers love everything that makes them money, the skeevier the better.
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Dec 5, 2017 18:23
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Lightning Knight posted:Is drug legalization popular, or is marijuana legalization popular? If we don't legalize other drugs most of the problems are going to remain in effect, after all. I'd be super wary of full legalization as opposed to decriminalization. Can you imagine the hell that would ensue if Phillip-Morris decided to start pushing opiates?
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Dec 5, 2017 18:26
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botany posted:i've never heard of that story i think. i still find it hard to believe that Deutsche Bank hates him personally. those criminal fuckers love everything that makes them money, the skeevier the better. They hate him specifically because he seriously hosed them over and cost them a lot of money. The second part is why they continued to do business with him and give him loans
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Dec 5, 2017 18:31
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Talmonis posted:I'd be super wary of full legalization as opposed to decriminalization. Can you imagine the hell that would ensue if Phillip-Morris decided to start pushing opiates? Legalization of marijuana and decriminalization of more harmful drugs is my take on it.
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Dec 5, 2017 18:44
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Old people don't think as well as younger people and have difficulties adjusting to new ideas and changing circumstances. This is why all the Boomers still think Millenials are just whining about college costs because why don't they just get a summer job? The problem is that the sort of young person to end up in politics is likely to be extremely privileged and have these same problems. Like, you're most likely to end up with the sort of young person who thinks it's normal to effortlessly get a $60k job right out of college and have your parents recommend you to internships. That being said, there is a genuine advantage when it comes to the way younger people view social issues (regardless of financial privilege), though that only really matters if you have reason to believe the older candidate is bad in that area. To be completely honest, I feel like some of these posts are coming from a desire to appear "reasonable" to the anti-Bernie folks rather than an honest evaluation of what the results of his presidency might be. I would obviously prefer a younger equivalent to Sanders (and it concerns me greatly that there aren't many prominent younger alternatives), and hopefully someone will come along in the next couple years, but as things stand now there aren't really any other options that I feel would be as reliable in terms of elevating left-wing politics. Lightning Knight posted:Somebody born 50 years ago is going to have an entirely different background and perspective on politics and the world than someone born 70 years ago? Aren't people around the age of 50 actually generally worse than Boomers politically? edit: The figure stone cold posted basically shows this. You gotta be younger than ~35 before you start to see better political views, and I seem to recall reading something implying that Gen X-ers might even be worse than Boomers.
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Dec 5, 2017 18:46
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WampaLord posted:This can't be stated enough. Now show us the breakdown in youth voters by race.
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Dec 5, 2017 18:47
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Oracle posted:Now show us the breakdown in youth voters by race. Okay, sure, but I'm not sure what you're getting at here. http://www.pewresearch.org/2008/11/13/young-voters-in-the-2008-election/  If your argument is going to be "young white people aren't as left leaning as young minorities" I still don't see the danger in trying to reach out to young people across the board.
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Dec 5, 2017 18:55
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WampaLord posted:If your argument is going to be "young white people aren't as left leaning as young minorities" I still don't see the danger in trying to reach out to young people across the board. Yeah, and there's still a pretty massive difference between older white people and younger ones in terms of voting habits.
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Dec 5, 2017 19:01
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Would Bernie want to run being so old? Our Revolution seems to have not slowed down, or any of the constellation of organizations that supported him. I think he’ll run hell-or-high-water, but it’s hard to see him repeating his success if someone smartly appropriates his issues.
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Dec 5, 2017 19:03
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Young white people are worse than young black people but waaay better than old white people.
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Dec 5, 2017 19:03
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Democrazy posted:Our Revolution seems to have not slowed down, or any of the constellation of organizations that supported him. I think he’ll run hell-or-high-water, but it’s hard to see him repeating his success if someone smartly appropriates his issues. I think you're underestimating how big a deal name recognition is, and how much of it Bernie gained thanks to the 2016 primary. I think it would be pretty hard for another candidate to appropriate his issues and be successful without that kind of name recognition. Shimrra Jamaane posted:Young white people are worse than young black people but waaay better than old white people.  The problem being, for now, we still have way more young white people than young black people.
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Dec 5, 2017 19:09
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WampaLord posted:Okay, sure, but I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Same problem as reaching out to suburbanites across the board. They skew white and racist. All whites voted for McCain over Obama 57-41. All white millennials voted for Obama over McCain 54-44. By 2012, he'd lost white voters under 30, white males by 11% and white females by 8% less than in 2008. Basically, gently caress white people, focus on minorities, they'll be the majority in 2050 anyway. The non-racist whites will still vote for you (approx. 30-40% of white voters), the others aren't worth throwing minorities under the bus to appease.
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Dec 5, 2017 19:10
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Oracle posted:By 2012, he'd lost white voters under 30, white males by 11% and white females by 8% less than in 2008. Don't you think this might have anything to do with how he governed in those 4 years? I personally did a third party vote in 2012 (I lived in CA at the time, relax) because I was pissed at Obama for drone strikes and loving up the public option.
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Dec 5, 2017 19:17
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Oracle posted:Same problem as reaching out to suburbanites across the board. They skew white and racist. All whites voted for McCain over Obama 57-41. All white millennials voted for Obama over McCain 54-44. By 2012, he'd lost white voters under 30, white males by 11% and white females by 8% less than in 2008.
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Dec 5, 2017 19:23
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WampaLord posted:I think you're underestimating how big a deal name recognition is, and how much of it Bernie gained thanks to the 2016 primary. I think it would be pretty hard for another candidate to appropriate his issues and be successful without that kind of name recognition. Name recognition can cut both ways. Clinton’s name recognition connected her to the Presidency of her husband in some negative ways and to a number of “scandals” stemming from her years in politics. Likewise, Sanders is connected to a highly contentious primary and without an easy foil or uncontested ownership of his issues, he’ll probably have a tougher time generating the same enthusiasm. Maybe no one actually steps in to take up those issues, but I have a hard time believing someone like Harris or Warren won’t use them.
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Dec 5, 2017 19:23
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Democrazy posted:Name recognition can cut both ways. Clinton’s name recognition connected her to the Presidency of her husband in some negative ways and to a number of “scandals” stemming from her years in politics. Likewise, Sanders is connected to a highly contentious primary and without an easy foil or uncontested ownership of his issues, he’ll probably have a tougher time generating the same enthusiasm. Maybe no one actually steps in to take up those issues, but I have a hard time believing someone like Harris or Warren won’t use them. I thought Kamala Harris wasn't acceptable as the nominee any more because of some of the cases she took on as a prosecutor.
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Dec 5, 2017 19:27
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