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My favorite thing about new GW getting out ahead of leaks and rumors is that there is literally no reason to read BoLS anymore. That site loving sucks so much.
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Dec 5, 2017 16:48
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Schadenboner posted:Didn't they go back in time and wipe themselves out? ( Nope, It's another thing about the imperium for guilliman to be bitter about in dark imperium, they had a big bureaucratic shitfight over how to best to date things which lead to competing systems in a galaxy wide mess which is where the whole "it might be m42 it might be m32 who knooooooooows  " came from leaving finding out what actually happened and where it all went wrong that much harder.
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Dec 5, 2017 16:49
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TheChirurgeon posted:This is the worst, dumbest idea It was already mentioned that it came from BoLS?
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Dec 5, 2017 16:52
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Schadenboner posted:It was already mentioned that it came from BoLS? I know, but it bore repeating. One of the smarter things about Strategems is that they can't be cancelled, and one of the better changes to psychic powers is that you can't nullify any power cast anywhere on the table. Players should generally be able to use their cool abilities and stuff, and the opponent should be forced to react accordingly That's like game design 101 level poo poo
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Dec 5, 2017 16:55
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BoLS is loving awful, I'm glad they're dead
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Dec 5, 2017 16:57
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3d6 charge is still only something like 61% chance to succeed, and plus a command reroll if you're spending whats often half your loving command points on a thing you should be getting a reasonable return. E: wait no thats 3d6 pick highest, never mind point stands though.
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Dec 5, 2017 17:01
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Milotic posted:Won’t someone think of the poor static gunline Eldar players? I’m so glad initiative went. Slogging my army across the map, getting wrecked in overwatch and then not even necessarily getting to fight first? That sucked. There’s plenty of ways to mitigate - flamers will soften most units up, there’s a stratagem that lets you go next even if you didn’t charge, some units still get to always strike first, you can fall back if you do survive and let the rest of your army obliterate them. This is pretty wrong-headed. Almost every close combat army has ways of getting themselves in combat quickly that definitely didn't have in 8th Edition, and had their mainstay melee units (Ork Boyz, Genestealers, Khorne Berserkers, etc) upped substantially in lethality, providing defending units a way of trying to mitigate this wouldn't be game breaking. I'd almost even say that the lethality of the game in general is a problem in itself, there doesn't seem to be many units that really embody the concept of durability with there being far too many units that have the capability of just deleting even the most durable model/models in a single round. Corrode posted:There is a penalty for charging through terrain in the rules RIGHT NOW and no one ever seems to remember. Except there isn’t? There are additional rules for specific types of terrain, but no all-encompassing rule for charging into terrain against a defending unit. As for being able to spend 2 CP to interrupt that only matters if you are suffering from multiple charges. The whole thing ranks pretty low on my “issues” list with 8th edition, but it is worth noting as we talk about the game’s flaws. We basically have a game where the amount of terrain on the board can turn a blowout on a relatively open board into an equally one-sided match in the opposite direction when you factor in multiple forms of LoS blocking buildings (especially if you are running with ITC rules) that assault units can then basically walk through and charge you. There is a certain amount of complexity to the game that 7th had that I am beginning to miss. xtothez posted:Alas, perils only activates on double 1 or double 6. Picking up modifiers to a psychic test doesn't mean you're more likely to to get perils. If that was the case Magnus would be much worse off with his +2 bonus, and Shadow in the Warp would be really scary. Which is kind of dumb considering penalties to shooting cause your plasma weapons to explode.
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Dec 5, 2017 17:03
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ANAmal.net posted:My favorite thing about new GW getting out ahead of leaks and rumors is that there is literally no reason to read BoLS anymore. That site loving sucks so much.  BoLS is trash and I'm glad it's finally irrelevant.
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Dec 5, 2017 17:05
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Gilgameshback posted:The geniuses over at Bell of Lost Souls have figured out that the real problem with 8th edition is that stratagems are too good and "stifle creativity": Stratagems are one of the best new editions to the game, and are a great idea. Their main flaw is GW has no sense of proportion. Some are mind-blowing awesome, while others I'd imagine have NEVER been used in a single game, either being only usable for exceedingly rare scenarios, or exclusive to units people never use.
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Dec 5, 2017 17:08
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xtothez posted:Alas, perils only activates on double 1 or double 6. Picking up modifiers to a psychic test doesn't mean you're more likely to to get perils. If that was the case Magnus would be much worse off with his +2 bonus, and Shadow in the Warp would be really scary. It does if the rule says it does. Orks' "Waaagh! Energy" says that if the total after modifiers is 12+ you peril.
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Dec 5, 2017 17:12
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Floppychop posted:It does if the rule says it does. Wasn't Magnus immune to perils in the previous edition? It stands to reason he deserves to be anyway, and introducing more ways to modify opponents psychic tests to force perils would be an interesting way to give armies tactics against psyker heavy armies.
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Dec 5, 2017 17:18
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Safety Factor posted:
Yeah, it's great. And you just know that somewhere in Lenton is a whiteboard with that as an objective that's been ticked off.
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Dec 5, 2017 17:19
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I still go to BoLS for the price breakdown of bundles since I don't know who else tends to do those and I'm too lazy to do it myself.
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Dec 5, 2017 17:22
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I'm glad that people still go to BoLS because it helps lady Lex, but I'm more glad that I am no longer one of those BoLS-goers. Even the /40kg/ is more accurate.
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Dec 5, 2017 17:24
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Uroboros posted:Stratagems are one of the best new editions to the game, and are a great idea. Their main flaw is GW has no sense of proportion. Some are mind-blowing awesome, while others I'd imagine have NEVER been used in a single game, either being only usable for exceedingly rare scenarios, or exclusive to units people never use. That may be true, but if you look at them as an analogue to formation special rules, they are actually much better this way. Will I ever use the Hive Fleet Kraken stratagem to respawn units in Matched Play after setting points aside at the beginning? Probably not. Is it cool and fluffy and something that would be fun in a narrative game? Yes. Think about like The Wolf and the Lion recently revealed and picture some of those bad/unusable stratagems as just fluffy and mostly for open/narrative play. It doesn't hurt anything that they are there. It doesn't cost you the good ones available to your army to have access to them.
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Dec 5, 2017 17:28
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:Yeah, it's great. And you just know that somewhere in Lenton is a whiteboard with that as an objective that's been ticked off. I distinctly remember the facial expressions the Community guys pulled last time I went down for an interview with them and someone brought up BoLS. It was something approaching passing a kidney stone and finding your dog had shat on your carpet. Natfka got a similar grimace.
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Dec 5, 2017 17:29
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Uroboros posted:This is pretty wrong-headed. Almost every close combat army has ways of getting themselves in combat quickly that definitely didn't have in 8th Edition, and had their mainstay melee units (Ork Boyz, Genestealers, Khorne Berserkers, etc) upped substantially in lethality, providing defending units a way of trying to mitigate this wouldn't be game breaking. I'd almost even say that the lethality of the game in general is a problem in itself, there doesn't seem to be many units that really embody the concept of durability with there being far too many units that have the capability of just deleting even the most durable model/models in a single round. I don't think you realize what a nightmare 7th edition was for those of us who play assault armies. It's better now but when I look at tournament lists I still see a hell of a lot of shooting armies compared to assault. The fact that you point out that the charge interrupt strategem only comes into play when there are multiple charges really backs this up, although I will say I've had some mileage out of it myself. Like, there are some other factors but I only ever won a handful of games with my Blood Angels back during 7th. I tried a huge variety of lists and it always came down to the same fundamental problem- it was insanely hard to actually get into assault. The fact that I (will) actually have several vial ways to deliver my assault units right is incredible, but the thing is that not a single one of these is without risk or downside. That 3d6 charge I get can still only target units that are within 12', meaning that screening is still going to be really effective. The extra move for Death Company depends heavily on getting the first turn, requires a heavy investment in both points and CP to be effective and basically give up any chance of bringing a character along for the ride. Those character buffs are also prone to getting lost in the charge phase in a way that isn't an issue at all for shooting armies. Even when I get into assault it's still entirely possible for the opponent to just back up out of the fight if they survive and then open up on my unit with the rest of their army. Those tradeoffs are fine though because at least I can actually play my army instead of just picking units up off the table without ever being able to do anything while at the same time meaning that I still have to think carefully about when and where I deploy.
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Dec 5, 2017 17:30
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Corrode posted:BoLS is loving awful, I'm glad they're dead loving Word. Playing assassintown+some blood angel new stuff tonight. Being able to splash in Mephi and a hammer captain will certainly give me the ability to tear down some big stuff in short order while the assassins bully the rest of the table. Also Mephi is as splashable as Celestine and if you have a soup detachment should try to add him in. Even without stratgems having him run around double moving with 4+d3 swings S10 -3 d3 damage and 2 denies is pretty solid at 145.
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Dec 5, 2017 17:35
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145pts? Lmao Hopefully my Mephiston will stop dropping his loving sword
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Dec 5, 2017 17:49
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Wasn't he 145 in the index? I've already been using the hell out of him with just those rules
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Dec 5, 2017 17:59
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Right, second go around with my Deathwatch this sunday. 2500 points, and I've managed to not take a foot slogger this time. Friendly games against a friends mostly Primaris Space Wolves - (he usually runs 2x Repulsors and the SW flyer). quote:HQ: The general idea is to plop everything around the watchmaster for those sweet, sweet rerolls. Also, how good are the Deathwatch Shotguns? Part of me wants to model 10 of them up and stick 10 dudes in a Land Raider.
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Dec 5, 2017 18:02
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Out of curiosity, do people in this thread tend to prefer fluffy play or more competitive play? I've only played one game but can't help thinking about different strategies and optimisation. The unit variety and the range of different mechanics is the most attractive thing about getting in to the hobby for me. It's seems sort of alien to me that you'd try and roll with a crew that's deliberately suboptimal, but maybe high level competitive play is poo poo/boring?
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Dec 5, 2017 18:10
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Entropy238 posted:Out of curiosity, do people in this thread tend to prefer fluffy play or more competitive play? Competitive play with optimal varied lists is great fun and is mentally a lot more engaging. Repetitive boiler-plate/cookie cutter/etc. lists are uninteresting and typically are bland to play against. Narrative play is certainly a thing that some people enjoy, but I agree with your thoughts on the mechanics of it being a large part of the fun. The most important aspect, above all, is to enjoy yourself and be a friendly opponent. Some of the best and friendly games I've ever had have been the hardest most competitive ones. Beers help too. 
PierreTheMime fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Dec 5, 2017 |
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Dec 5, 2017 18:16
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There's a fair split itt. Some of us play balls to the wall competitive, some just below that, then a sliding scale down to like BuffaloChicken. I don't think anyone posting here is full retard CAAC, but there's plenty of goons who want to kick back and smash hans together without optimising every part of their list.
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Dec 5, 2017 18:17
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That's sort of what I expected I guess. I'm in it for the strategy but don't think I'd mind losing at all so long as I played my best/had fun.
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Dec 5, 2017 18:24
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Who the gently caress is Goatboy and why does he inflicts dumb 40k opinions to the world?
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Dec 5, 2017 18:27
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Ayn Marx posted:Who the gently caress is Goatboy and why does he inflicts dumb 40k opinions to the world? One of bols' premier powergaming jackasses.
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Dec 5, 2017 18:29
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xtothez posted:Alas, perils only activates on double 1 or double 6. Picking up modifiers to a psychic test doesn't mean you're more likely to to get perils. If that was the case Magnus would be much worse off with his +2 bonus, and Shadow in the Warp would be really scary. Hence the addition to the rule in my homebrew version.
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Dec 5, 2017 18:37
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Artum posted:One of bols' premier powergaming jackasses. He's a pretty good dude. I've met him IRL a few times. He's honestly the only good thing about BloS, even if he has a weird take on the meta.
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Dec 5, 2017 18:44
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Entropy238 posted:Out of curiosity, do people in this thread tend to prefer fluffy play or more competitive play? I used to play super competitive, but ever since then my motivation to keep track of the latest and greatest has declined sharply. Now I just want to have fun and still win, but I am far more interested in making sure my opponent has fun too. The problem with super optimal play (IMO) is that it forces you to break the game or use very specific units and configurations. poo poo like Smite spam, always bringing Robbie G, or all the dumb netlists. At some point I want to make a map campaign. Who knows.
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Dec 5, 2017 18:44
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Naramyth posted:He's a pretty good dude. I've met him IRL a few times. He's honestly the only good thing about BloS, even if he has a weird take on the meta. The worst part of BOLS is Black Blow Fly, who went so far as to register here to flame WhiteOutMouse when he dared criticize a tournament BBF ran that WOM should have won.
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Dec 5, 2017 18:58
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MasterSlowPoke posted:The worst part of BOLS is Black Blow Fly, who went so far as to register here to flame WhiteOutMouse when he dared criticize a tournament BBF ran that WOM should have won. Wow loving seriously?
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Dec 5, 2017 18:59
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I generally listbuild somewhat seriously, taking a broad range of units from OK to Great and usually skipping whatever is really poo poo. I like to have one of everything when collecting an army so I typically only have bonus squads of troops so I don't spam anything really. When I play it's a mix. Sometimes I sandbag a bit by being extremely aggressive with maneuvers that are unlikely to work but are fun. Other times I try hard and then get tabled anyway by what should be an objectively worse list. The game feels relatively balanced for my group, with the main outlier being the Drew Careys my wife is building not taking a single win yet. I've even tried playing them for her a couple times and I can't figure it out honestly.
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Dec 5, 2017 19:01
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I'm not a tournement player and I love narrative events but I play pretty competitively in terms of wanting a clean, fair game that follows the rules and I don't have any problem with whatever legal lists people want to bring.
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Dec 5, 2017 19:01
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MasterSlowPoke posted:The worst part of BOLS is Black Blow Fly, who went so far as to register here to flame WhiteOutMouse when he dared criticize a tournament BBF ran that WOM should have won. Oh please tell me you've got a link, that sounds magical 
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Dec 5, 2017 19:01
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General Olloth posted:I generally listbuild somewhat seriously, taking a broad range of units from OK to Great and usually skipping whatever is really poo poo. I like to have one of everything when collecting an army so I typically only have bonus squads of troops so I don't spam anything really. I like optimising my list rather than making the optimum list.
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Dec 5, 2017 19:09
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Entropy238 posted:Out of curiosity, do people in this thread tend to prefer fluffy play or more competitive play? I have always been way more interested in fun fluffy games, so I love that they are adding more rules for narrative play. Bringing a really strong list to a tournament is certainly to be expected, but you can always spot the worst people by what they bring to pick up games. Outside of practicing for a tournament, if a guy is bringing whatever is the hot power list to every game and also changes it only to the new strongest thing each time the meta shifts you should be wary. Sometimes a long struggling army gets too powerful, so if a guy has been playing Eldar for 20 years and they get crazy powerful it is just how it goes. He may be a dick, but the guy who just bought two Wraith knights after playing Marines for a while definitely is. The biggest thing about narrative play is you really need a charismatic person to keep it rolling. If you want a certain thing to get big locally, you may have to do it yourself.
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Dec 5, 2017 19:15
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Entropy238 posted:Out of curiosity, do people in this thread tend to prefer fluffy play or more competitive play? I play fluffy, but I'm trying, for the first time in my gaming career, to git gud so I stop getting rolled at NOVA/Adepticon/local tourneys. MasterSlowPoke posted:The worst part of BOLS is Black Blow Fly, who went so far as to register here to flame WhiteOutMouse when he dared criticize a tournament BBF ran that WOM should have won. I remember that doofus posted on Dakka too and he got really angry when someone suggested the (at the time only visible through leaks) Baal Predator would be plastic, and he made a public bet that it wouldn't be, and whoever he bet against had to buy it for him and vice versa. No clue if he ever followed up when he ended up being wrong. Played a game on Friday against Imperial Guard and Chaos with my Black Templars. I ruled the board for two turns then my dice went ice cold and I managed to miss almost every shot from turns 3-7. Highlights include my lascannon Crusader punching a Heldrake after surviving two charges from it, my Terminators killing the Obliterators real quick then being totally stranded, my tac squad disembarking from their Rhino only to miss literally every shot they fired for the turn, and my Stormraven missing and failing to wound on every shot for 5 turns straight.          
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Dec 5, 2017 19:19
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SteelMentor posted:Oh please tell me you've got a link, that sounds magical I don't have archives and it was years ago, but essentially BBF ran an RTT with 3 games at a local store in Tampa. I had to work but WOM went. WOM was the only person who won all three games, but he somehow placed below anyone that would get a prize. WOM asked him about it, and was brushed off with a nonanswer. WOM did some light grumbling here, and BBF suddenly showed up and said that WOM was a terrible player and only won due to luck/cheeze and oh yeah he's a bad painter too. The thread told him to gently caress off. I later played him in a tournament about a year later, and dominated him despite his blatant cheating (one that sticks out was I asked him to measure my charge range and he said I was like 15" away, then I went over and measured it myself and it was more like 8". Plenty of rolling, claiming success and picking up the dice before I could see too). That was game 2 of the RTT; he then dropped and claimed it was because his friends are throwing him a surprise birthday party. It wasn't his birthday.
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Dec 5, 2017 19:20
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MasterSlowPoke posted:I don't have archives and it was years ago, but essentially BBF ran an RTT with 3 games at a local store in Tampa. I had to work but WOM went. WOM was the only person who won all three games, but he somehow placed below anyone that would get a prize. WOM asked him about it, and was brushed off with a nonanswer. WOM did some light grumbling here, and BBF suddenly showed up and said that WOM was a terrible player and only won due to luck/cheeze and oh yeah he's a bad painter too. The thread told him to gently caress off. What a loving chode, the BB stuff just sounds like a scam to offload a bunch of prizes to his mates. On a more positive note, the Warham TV crew are running a painting chillstream. Come for the bantz, stay for Peachy almost drinking his paint water every five minutes and Duncan getting actually upset about his game last Friday: https://www.twitch.tv/warhammer
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Dec 5, 2017 19:33
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