EU Politics: I miss Renaults(don't make fun of me)

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Electronico6: Feb 25, 2011

double nine posted:

*record scratch*

https://twitter.com/ap/status/937986476696129536

Isn't this because of the elections?

# ? Dec 5, 2017 12:29

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# ? May 23, 2024 13:53

Pluskut Tukker: May 20, 2012

Sort of; the investigating judge wants everyone charged tried together and under all the original charges brought in Spain. If Puigdemont cs are extradited according to the European Arrest Warrant, they can only be tried for acts which are criminal both under Spanish and Belgian law. The logic is that because Puigdemont et al have shown their intention to return to Spain to participate in the upcoming Catalan elections, it is no longer necessary to demand their extradition since they can simply be arrested nad brought to trial once they cross the Spanish border. The EAW would have stood if Puigdemont had said he'd stay in Belgium because it would beat the alternative of Puigdemont's group not being tried at all. The EAW can be reissued at any point though, and if Puigdemont travels to a different country, e.g. France, he can also be arrested there, and extradited and tried for charges that are criminal under both French and Spanish law.

Tl;dr this is a procedural move, the Spanish warrant is still valid, and if Puigdemont flies back to Spain he will be arrested the second he sets foot on Spanish soil.

# ? Dec 5, 2017 12:52

willemw: Sep 30, 2006; very much so

Collateral Damage posted:

Does anyone in Belgium NOT live close to someone else?

I was going to make a snarky remark, but seems like I live right in between Phlegmish and Deltasquid :eek:

At least I don't live in the same town as my parents.

On topic: it seems that the Spanish central government is trying to make friends in Europe before the upcoming elections. Withdrawing the EAW solves a potential crisis with Belgium, and then there's this piece by Rajoy: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/05/theresa-may-catalonia-brexit-uk-leaving-eu in which he goes on and on about how Spain and the UK are great friends ( carefully avoiding the word Gibraltar).

# ? Dec 5, 2017 13:23

Antifa Poltergeist: Jun 3, 2004; "We're not laughing with you, we're laughing at you"

Pluskut Tukker posted:

Mario Centeno, the Portuguese finance minister for the Socialist Party, is the new president of the Eurogroup, and Dijsselbloem will finaly be gone. I think that's good news?

Also, Twitter says there's no deal today on Brexit between the UK and the EU.

Centeno is a massive technocratic wonk whose face alone makes him the king of nerds,but hes highly competent at running things ,is by all accounts an exceptional economist and he kinda supports MMT maybe?.hes a disaster when it comes to annoying things like "politics" and "public speaking" but he should keep things running smoothly.at least he wont be saying mildly racist things like Dijsselbloem so its an improvement.

# ? Dec 5, 2017 13:56

Zudgemud: Mar 1, 2009; Grimey Drawer

nimby posted:

I'm from Oostkamp, my girlfriend from Nijlen (about an hour by car). Her mom let slip that nobody else in the family had moved so far to a different country. That's not a typo, she actually said country.

Time to start the West Flanders Independence Movement.

This totally reinforces my long held opinion of that Flemish people are actually Hobbits.

# ? Dec 5, 2017 14:35

lollontee: Nov 4, 2014; Can't post for 10 years!

Anyone more than one village away is subhuman scum and needs to be exterminated post haste. The middle ages were loving awesome.

# ? Dec 5, 2017 15:08

Truga: May 4, 2014; Lipstick Apathy

this made me giggle

# ? Dec 5, 2017 16:54

Deltasquid: Apr 10, 2013; awww...
you guys made me ink!

THUNDERDOME

In a similar vein I kind of want one of these

# ? Dec 5, 2017 16:55

double nine: Aug 8, 2013

sending one to downing street right now.

# ? Dec 5, 2017 17:07

Phlegmish: Jul 2, 2011

willemw posted:

I was going to make a snarky remark, but seems like I live right in between Phlegmish and Deltasquid At least I don't live in the same town as my parents.

So Kortenberg?

I live in the same town as my parents, but it's on the other side of town, so I really cut the umbilical cord

# ? Dec 5, 2017 18:44

Deltasquid: Apr 10, 2013; awww...
you guys made me ink!

THUNDERDOME

Lol, just lol, if willemw orders his sushi at Restaurant Osaka

# ? Dec 5, 2017 19:10

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

This thread is approaching peak Belgium. Everyone check if you still have both your hands.

# ? Dec 5, 2017 19:36

orange sky: May 7, 2007

Orange Devil posted:

This thread is approaching peak Belgium. Everyone check if you still have both your hands.

idgi and I feel it's important

E: oh, Congo

E2: HOLY poo poo humans are terrible

orange sky fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Dec 5, 2017

# ? Dec 5, 2017 19:48

lollontee: Nov 4, 2014; Can't post for 10 years!

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42237377

quote:

Spanish Supreme Court judge Pablo Llareno announced the warrant's withdrawal on Tuesday morning, citing the willingness the Catalan leaders had shown to return ahead of fresh regional elections being held on 21 December.
He said the European-wide warrant would complicate the Spanish legal probe, and its removal allows Spain to gain full control over the investigation.

Remember when I said the point with Puidgemont fleeing to Belgium was to force the Rajoy Regime to file a European arrest warrant?

# ? Dec 5, 2017 20:39

Soviet Commubot: Oct 22, 2008

orange sky posted:

idgi and I feel it's important

E: oh, Congo

E2: HOLY poo poo humans are terrible

I'm sorry you had to find out this way.

# ? Dec 5, 2017 20:53

AceOfFlames: Oct 9, 2012

orange sky posted:

idgi and I feel it's important

E: oh, Congo

E2: HOLY poo poo humans are terrible

And this is the regime that classic children�s character Timtin praised so much in Tintin in the Congo*!

*In case you read the Portuguese version**, yes it was Belgium in the original. Herge didn�t randomly decide to praise Portuguese colonialism.

** Do they still sell it? I�m sure they don�t but somehow I wouldn�t be surprised if they did.

# ? Dec 5, 2017 21:42

Deltasquid: Apr 10, 2013; awww...
you guys made me ink!

THUNDERDOME

They don't sell it any more, no, except as a collector's novelty the original one I think?

EDIT: lol they still do, and it's the second-most sold album. Especially popular in Congo!

wikipedia posted:

Le 23 juillet 2007, Bienvenu Mbutu Mondondo, de nationalit� congolaise, porte plainte pour racisme � Bruxelles, dans une relative indiff�rence voire hostilit� envers cette actionf 6,7. Il demande l'interdiction de vente de Tintin au Congo en Belgique ou bien que l'album porte un avertissementf 5. Il est n�anmoins d�bout� par la justice belge8. Une deuxi�me plainte au civil est d�pos�e en 20108 sans plus de r�ussite puisque le 10 f�vrier 2012, la justice tranche et estime que Tintin au Congo n'�tait pas anim� d'une intention discriminatoire, �tant donn� le contexte propre � l'�poque. La d�fense a �galement fait valoir que la loi contre le racisme n'existait pas � l'�poque o� Herg� �crivait l'album8,9.

� la fin des ann�es 2000, Tintin au Congo est le deuxi�me album le plus vendu de toute l'�uvre d'Herg�, avec plus de dix millions d'exemplaires vendus, derri�re Tintin en Am�riquef 1. L'album est �galement le plus populaire de la s�rie aupr�s des enfantsf 6, et le plus c�l�bre en Afrique, en particulier dans les r�gions francophonesg 2. En R�publique d�mocratique du Congo, le CD est devenu � le support favori de commercialisation du h�ros belge �4.

Deltasquid fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Dec 5, 2017

# ? Dec 5, 2017 23:36

Phlegmish: Jul 2, 2011

Tintin in the Congo is funny as hell, at one point he blows up a rhino.

# ? Dec 5, 2017 23:51

willemw: Sep 30, 2006; very much so

Deltasquid posted:

Lol, just lol, if willemw orders his sushi at Restaurant Osaka

I don't order any sushi. Should I?

Orange Devil posted:

This thread is approaching peak Belgium. Everyone check if you still have both your hands.

I thought that one got replaced by "hide your kids"...

Phlegmish posted:

Tintin in the Congo is funny as hell, at one point he blows up a rhino.

He tries to shoot the rhino, but when that fails he drills a hole in it and then blows it up with a stick of dynamite :eek:

At one point a train crashes into the side of his car, but the train is so badly made by the pauvres congolais that it derails, leaving the car intact.

I think it depicts exactly how we looked at our colony, its nature and its people. Not a pretty picture

e: you can order it online even https://www.bol.com/nl/f/kuifje-02-kuifje-in-afrika/35497462/

# ? Dec 6, 2017 00:13

throw to first DAMN IT: Apr 10, 2007; This whole thread has been raging at the people who don't want Saracen invasion to their homes

Perhaps you too should be more accepting of their cultures

orange sky posted:

E: oh, Congo

# ? Dec 6, 2017 00:19

nimby: Nov 4, 2009; The pinnacle of cloud computing.

orange sky posted:

idgi and I feel it's important

E: oh, Congo

E2: HOLY poo poo humans are terrible

Leopold 2's still got statues in Belgium, including a famous one is Ostend. That one has an inscription giving thanks to Leopold from the Congolese people for freeing them of the tyranny of Islam.

A while ago someone chopped off a hand.

# ? Dec 6, 2017 00:32

Deltasquid: Apr 10, 2013; awww...
you guys made me ink!

THUNDERDOME

willemw posted:

I don't order any sushi. Should I?

It's pretty good. I like it a lot more than all the sushi restaurants in Leuven (which usually go for deep fried and mayo-heavy sushi that I can't appreciate, or just bland dry stuff)

# ? Dec 6, 2017 00:59

Entropist: Dec 1, 2007; I'm very stupid.

I'm just waiting for someone from Erps-Kwerps to show up now, the derpiest place on the Leuven-Brussels line.

lollontee posted:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42237377

Remember when I said the point with Puidgemont fleeing to Belgium was to force the Rajoy Regime to file a European arrest warrant?

What does that help though, besides making the news again? Can't really travel around, European arrest warrant or not.

# ? Dec 6, 2017 04:22

Phlegmish: Jul 2, 2011

Taking that train sometime last year (I take it every working day), there were two German girls giggling incessantly at the name Erps-Kwerps. I was vaguely irritated, despite often having made fun of it myself. That's my story, like and subscribe for more content.

# ? Dec 6, 2017 07:56

Deltasquid: Apr 10, 2013; awww...
you guys made me ink!

THUNDERDOME

My professors made fun of Erps-Kwerps all the time and I felt bad because I have a friend whose grandmother lives there.

# ? Dec 6, 2017 08:21

nimby: Nov 4, 2009; The pinnacle of cloud computing.

It's not as bad as the Cockfosters line in London. Every stop: "This is the line to... Cockfosters"

# ? Dec 6, 2017 08:25

Junior G-man: Sep 15, 2004; Wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma

There's a nice long walk that starts from Erps-Kwerps though and a nicely scuzzy friterie in the square of Erps or Kwerps. I forget. This is my story.

Junior G-man fucked around with this message at 10:17 on Dec 6, 2017

# ? Dec 6, 2017 10:14

Junior G-man: Sep 15, 2004; Wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma

Also content. Here's the deal outline for the EU-UK that was supposed to be agreed before the Orangemen went ballistic.

quote:

UK will not pay lump sum Brexit bill, according to draft agreement

LONDON � The U.K. will pay no upfront Brexit divorce bill to the European Union but will instead continue to act �as if [it] remained a member state� by meeting its ongoing liabilities as and when they arise for decades to come, according to a draft text of a joint agreement with the EU.

The clause forms part of a proposed draft agreement between London and Brussels that was circulated among U.K. officials Monday, the contents of which have been shared with POLITICO. It is a version of the text that was close to being finalized by Prime Minister Theresa May and Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker before Northern Ireland�s Democratic Unionist Party pulled the plug on the deal in a dramatic 11th-hour reversal for the U.K. prime minister.

The details of the document, according to a U.K. official who was given the draft, covers the three phase one issues of money, Northern Ireland and citizens� rights, which the European Union has stipulated must be sufficiently resolved before the negotiations can move on to the U.K.�s future relationship with the bloc.

The 15-page draft agreement lays out the scope of the U.K.�s financial settlement with Brussels as well as the ongoing influence of the European Court of Justice in U.K. legal matters post Brexit. The commitments contained in the document include an agreement that the U.K. shall:

Meet its share of the cost for projects signed off in the 21 months after Britain leaves until the end of the EU�s 7-year budget which finishes on December 31, 2020 � the so-called reste � liquider;
Have the option of participating in some EU programs post Brexit;
Have �due regard� to ECJ case law on EU citizens� rights;
Set up an independent national authority to monitor citizens� rights concerns.

Another U.K. official familiar with the text said that in addition there was an �explicit� reference that the offer is �conditional on an overall agreement which takes into account the framework for a future relationship and an early agreement on transition,� raising the prospect that it could all be withdrawn should the talks break down.

The text went through a number of changes on Monday as officials sought to fine-tune the final document and could yet be altered in the last-minute horse-trading between London, Belfast, Dublin and Brussels as a compromise is negotiated. However, officials believe most of the agreement has been locked in, with Juncker insisting Monday that only �two or three� issues remain outstanding.

While the financial settlement was long seen as the most politically toxic, it is the one issue on which agreement has been reached, according to one U.K. official familiar with the state of the talks.

On Northern Ireland, a deal had been agreed to ensure regulatory �alignment� on the island of Ireland until the DUP warned it was unacceptable halfway through May�s crunch lunch meeting with Juncker.

The role of the European Court of Justice in the protection of EU citizens� rights in the U.K. after Brexit, however, remains unresolved between London and Brussels, although an agreement is close.

According to the draft of the document, the U.K. has pledged to take �due regard� of ECJ rulings before Brexit day and has agreed a system in which the U.K. can ask for the Luxembourg court�s interpretation in cases � although according to U.K. officials this would not be binding.

According to the draft document, however, the U.K. wanted to insert a sunset clause limiting the ECJ�s role in U.K. legal disputes. The number of years was left blank in the document, indicating that it was the subject of negotiation.

�May wants the shortest possible time limit,� said Philippe Lamberts, the president of the Greens in the European Parliament who was briefed on the draft agreement Monday morning. �The EU wants 15 years.�

Lamberts was part of a group of MEPs from the Parliament�s Brexit steering group who met with Juncker on Monday before the lunch. The Belgian MEP added that the sunset clause was �one of the issues that remains under discussion.� He said the British offer was �around 10 years.�

In the end, the financial settlement was the easiest of the three issues to solve with the U.K. prime minister agreeing the components of the future bill, the �principles� for calculating the value and how it will be paid.

However, while the broad formula for calculating the final bill is set out in detail over four and a half pages there is no smoking gun figure or percentage of the total EU budget. Those issues have been kicked into phase two of the negotiations.

Here are the details of the draft agreement shared with U.K. officials:

Citizens� rights

The offer protecting the rights of European Union citizens living in Britain and British citizens living in the EU after Brexit runs to nearly five pages and forms the first section of the agreement.

European Court of Justice.

� Sunset clause. The sunset clause limiting the number of years the ECJ retains its proposed advisory role in U.K. law has been left blank to be agreed between now and the European Council on December 14.

� Due regard for ECJ case law. The draft agreement says the U.K. shall have �due regard� to ECJ case law before Brexit day and sets out how the U.K. can ask the ECJ for interpretation of EU law where necessary. But according to one U.K. official, nothing in the document says U.K. courts will be bound by the ECJ�s advice. �Taking guidance from, rather than referring to as the ultimate arbiter,� according to the official.

� Independent authority. The draft proposes a new independent national authority in the U.K. to monitor citizens� rights cases. It says the European Commission will play a similar role on the EU side, but leaves open a suggestion that the EU should set up a similarly independent body to mirror the U.K. system.

Financial settlement

The section covering the U.K.�s ongoing financial liabilities runs to four and a half pages, broken down into four sections.

1. Components

� EU multi-year budget. As Theresa May set out in her Florence speech in September, the document says that the U.K. will cover its share of the EU�s multi-annual financial framework (MFF) � its budget � which runs up until December 31, 2020.

� Reste � liquider. The second component is the reste � liquider � or outstanding budget commitments for projects which haven�t started or aren�t completed. The U.K. has vowed to honor commitments made during the seven-year MFF budget period until December 31, 2020. Some of these expenses will become due after that date, though.

� Contingent liabilities and corresponding assets. For example, the loans the EU has given to countries like Ukraine which the U.K. has promised to stand behind should they turn bad. A clause has been inserted into this section to protect the U.K. in the event of a future default ensuring that in the event of liabilities being triggered, the U.K. will receive its share of any subsequent recoveries, the draft agreement states.

� Space programs. The EU assets relating to space programs are not part of the financial settlement.

2. Payment methods

The second part of the financial settlement chapter covers the �principles for calculating [the] value of the financial settlement and payment methods.�

� No lump sum. The U.K. and EU have agreed not to settle the debt in one lump sum payment. Payments arising from the financial settlement �will become due as if the UK had remained a member state,� according to the U.K. official, paraphrasing the agreed text. In particular, the U.K. will not be required to �incur expenditures earlier than would be the case had it remained a member state� unless this is agreed by both sides. �We are going to pay the bills as they come up,� explained the U.K. official.

� No final figure. One of the benefits to this approach, according to the U.K. official, is that it is very difficult to work out how many billions the U.K will eventually pay, especially when it comes to pensions which could come 40 years down the line. It also means that the U.K. pays for the actual cost of EU commitments, not the forecast amount. A figure for the total bill, or a percentage of the EU budget the U.K. has agreed to pay, is not in the draft document.

� Future costs. The ongoing cost of funding European Union workers� pensions �will be paid when these amounts fall due,� leaving the U.K. on the hook for costs drifting well into the future.

3. Continued participation

Part three of the money chapter covers arrangements for �continued participation� in EU programs. �We may wish to participate in some of the programs post member state,� explained the U.K. official. These are not specified at this stage but could include the Horizon 2020 research program, for example.

4. EU investments

Part four covers other components of the EU like the European Investment Bank, the European Central Bank and European Union Trust Funds. According to the draft agreement, the U.K. will continue to be a party to the European Development Fund until December 31, 2020.

# ? Dec 6, 2017 10:16

Truga: May 4, 2014; Lipstick Apathy

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42237312

This owns a lot.

# ? Dec 6, 2017 10:27

Pluskut Tukker: May 20, 2012

Junior G-man posted:

Also content. Here's the deal outline for the EU-UK that was supposed to be agreed before the Orangemen went ballistic.

The British Home Office has been trying to deport people who legally came to live in the UK from Jamaica in the 1960s. To protect EU nationals abroad and UK citizens in Europe, the EU should negotiate for continued ECJ jurisdiction until the year 2100 just to be sure.

# ? Dec 6, 2017 10:50

orange sky: May 7, 2007

Truga posted:

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42237312

This owns a lot.

A small but sweet, sweet win. More of this and the EU hate will subside a bit

# ? Dec 6, 2017 10:51

Goa Tse-tung: Feb 11, 2008; ;3; Yams Fan

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42237315

this is another good step, although it's p laffo they left out all the european tax havens

# ? Dec 6, 2017 12:06

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

Goa Tse-tung posted:

this is another good step, although it's p laffo they left out all the european tax havens

That was the compromise needed to be able to have a list in the first place. It's hypocritical but inevitable.

Still that's one more reason I'm eager for Brexit: the ability to add all the Crown Dependencies to the blacklist as soon as Britain is no longer allowed to object.

# ? Dec 6, 2017 14:46

GABA ghoul: Oct 29, 2011

Seems like Brexit is working out really nicely for the EU. Maybe we should troll Poland and Hungary into leaving too

# ? Dec 6, 2017 15:02

Deltasquid: Apr 10, 2013; awww...
you guys made me ink!

THUNDERDOME

The Franco-Iberico-Italo-Scandinavian-German motor is all the EU needs or wants. Everything else is dead weight.

Charlemagne knew what he was doing.

# ? Dec 6, 2017 15:13

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:

Seems like Brexit is working out really nicely for the EU. Maybe we should troll Poland and Hungary into leaving too

Just suspend all their rights (including voting and veto) until such time as they comply with all their duties.

# ? Dec 6, 2017 15:47

Zudgemud: Mar 1, 2009; Grimey Drawer

Orange Devil posted:

Just suspend all their rights (including voting and veto) until such time as they comply with all their duties.

While it makes some sense to punish severe violators of common EU treaties etc with restricted voting, veto and payouts, it would probably also be impossible to implement in the current framework.

# ? Dec 6, 2017 16:19

Blut: Sep 11, 2009; if someone is in the bottom 10%~ of a guillotine

Goa Tse-tung posted:

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42237315

this is another good step, although it's p laffo they left out all the european tax havens

I'd be entirely in favour of engaging in Russia-style sanctions against every territory on that black list. The EU is big enough that that should hurt them into complying with a few rules and regulations at least.

# ? Dec 6, 2017 16:52

Shibawanko: Feb 13, 2013

https://www.volkskrant.nl/politiek/...waren~a4543767/

A bunch of former politicians from the Dutch labour party, which dropped from 38 seats to 9 seats in the last elections after participating in a coalition government with a right wing party and further gutting the welfare state and making sure everybody who wasn't already rich sank into depressing precarious employment if they were employed at all, wrote a book of "self criticism".

Except it's not really self criticism, it's just them saying how great they did and what a great government they formed and how the only mistake was the way they failed to communicate their greatness to voters. These guys are Dijsselbloem and two other dickholes, Diederik Samsom and Wouter Bos.

I can not understand this. Are these people autistic or something? Do they live in a different universe? They are universally hated but will still toot their own horn and seem genuinely confused about why Rutte-II was not considered the greatest government ever. What kind of psychopathic, self-absorbed freak becomes a politician for a leftist party without knowing the slightest thing about why people would want to vote for a leftist party and what's expected of a leftist party.

# ? Dec 7, 2017 08:55

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# ? May 23, 2024 13:53

suck my woke dick: Oct 10, 2012; I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!

Shibawanko posted:

https://www.volkskrant.nl/politiek/...waren~a4543767/

A bunch of former politicians from the Dutch labour party, which dropped from 38 seats to 9 seats in the last elections after participating in a coalition government with a right wing party and further gutting the welfare state and making sure everybody who wasn't already rich sank into depressing precarious employment if they were employed at all, wrote a book of "self criticism".

Except it's not really self criticism, it's just them saying how great they did and what a great government they formed and how the only mistake was the way they failed to communicate their greatness to voters. These guys are Dijsselbloem and two other dickholes, Diederik Samsom and Wouter Bos.

I can not understand this. Are these people autistic or something? Do they live in a different universe? They are universally hated but will still toot their own horn and seem genuinely confused about why Rutte-II was not considered the greatest government ever. What kind of psychopathic, self-absorbed freak becomes a politician for a leftist party without knowing the slightest thing about why people would want to vote for a leftist party and what's expected of a leftist party.

career_politicians.txt basically.

# ? Dec 7, 2017 08:59

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > EU Politics: I miss Renaults(don't make fun of me)

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