jaclynhyde posted:Got my first win after about a month of playing, feels good! After playing solely MiBe, what's a good relatively easy class to jump into next? Also, is there any way to figure out how many games you've played besides counting all the morgue files? Try a caster! DeFe is a tried and true (if very squishy) caster combo and one of my personal favorites.
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Dec 4, 2017 00:04
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Serephina posted:Healing no longer cures rot? Havn't noticed the change. Good news is that healing is now back as a random effect on the wand, right? Potions of curing took up that role which is fine, healing is still gone from random effects AFAIK.
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Dec 4, 2017 00:35
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Serephina posted:Healing no longer cures rot? Havn't noticed the change. Good news is that healing is now back as a random effect on the wand, right? Healing does cure rot: heal wounds and curing cure the rot first, and any leftover healing is then applied to healing missing hit points. And no, healing is not back as a random effect on the wand.
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Dec 4, 2017 03:59
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Christ why is playing an octopode such a trial? Is it supposed to be not fun? I feel like the early game is "Oh a ghost/bad roll/anyone with armor" means you're dead. I just wanted to play with rings, man.
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Dec 4, 2017 05:37
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TildeATH posted:Christ why is playing an octopode such a trial? Is it supposed to be not fun? I feel like the early game is "Oh a ghost/bad roll/anyone with armor" means you're dead. I just wanted to play with rings, man.
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Dec 4, 2017 06:17
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Floodkiller posted:Healing does cure rot: heal wounds and curing cure the rot first, and any leftover healing is then applied to healing missing hit points. And no, healing is not back as a random effect on the wand. I definitely forgot it was still a thing; I think since curing started curing rot I stopped using healing for that purpose altogether. Rotting doesn't seem to be much of a thing outside of being a ghoul nowadays..
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Dec 4, 2017 09:59
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TildeATH posted:Christ why is playing an octopode such a trial? Is it supposed to be not fun? I feel like the early game is "Oh a ghost/bad roll/anyone with armor" means you're dead. I just wanted to play with rings, man. I didn't find octopi all that hard....          
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Dec 4, 2017 17:11
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That owns
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Dec 4, 2017 17:15
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Holy poo poo man, very nice
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Dec 4, 2017 17:37
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I forget how many OpTm's before I got a win with one, and I splatted one deep into extended (like, around 12 runes) because I miscast statue form (1%) and didn't notice it. Early game is complete poo poo for them and if you haven't found statue form by the end of Lair you are most likely screwed. If you're coming from some kind of mostly melee build you have to be roughly 100x as cautious as you've previously been. Even coming from other casters you have to be extremely careful. For first time I would honestly go Gozag over Chei because you're likely to be able to call down your first store by Lair 1 and it makes it much more likely that you'll get all the tools you need.
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Dec 4, 2017 17:58
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Make that series of images the new thread title somehow
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Dec 4, 2017 18:40
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Hey! I recognize those Op's! That's from 2012 I think, I'm phoneposting or I'd just check the LPArchive. Has anyone done a crawl LP since then? I think there was one run in the roguelike mega lp thread?
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Dec 4, 2017 19:09
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yeah https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3718266
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Dec 4, 2017 19:58
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hmm, that looks too much like cum on his book of transmitations drawing for me to be fine actually reading through it. Still, they put about as much effort as I did on my part of the LP so I can't be too angry.
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Dec 5, 2017 16:29
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if you can't deal with a little cum you're not a real crawl fan
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Dec 5, 2017 20:28
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IronicDongz posted:if you can't deal with a little cum you're not a real crawl fan New thread title.
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Dec 5, 2017 20:55
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artist rendering of my latest death to my arch nemesis #1 killer, Lommy the Destroyer.
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Dec 6, 2017 03:53
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Hey y'all. Haven't played this in forever, have they fixed mutations yet?? Also I found a dungeon level that had: fields of fruit and grass for farming complete with roaming hogs and frogs, caves and forests full of wild game and a dragon and a manticore, a small village filled with kobolds, gnolls and centaurs, a romantic house on a lake with an orc priest/merfolk couple, and a modestly sized castle with gold, a couple spell books and a fan of gales. It was really fun to explore! Well, that's my story.
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Dec 6, 2017 11:53
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gowb posted:Hey y'all. Haven't played this in forever, have they fixed mutations yet?? Muts are good now, you can chug all the pots and eat purple all turn into a super dude Everything else has got much worse
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Dec 6, 2017 13:18
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tote up a bags posted:Muts are good now, you can chug all the pots and eat purple all turn into a super dude Yeah I noticed that when I saw that there were no more orcisb/elvish weapons and no high elves at all 
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Dec 6, 2017 13:52
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gowb posted:Hey y'all. Haven't played this in forever, have they fixed mutations yet?? There's still no amulet of mutation, potions of beneficial mutation and cure mutation have both been removed, but regular potions of mutation generally work out to give you a set of all good mutations if you quaff enough of them. You still can't be locked into your set of good mutations in extended and zot: 5, but if you use your potions of mutation well, you can generally be guaranteed to have mostly good stuff and the ability to get rid of the awful mutations. It's a really nice system that works quite well. I do wish the truly horrible mutations like berserkititis and teleportitis would be reworked, though. tote up a bags posted:Muts are good now, you can chug all the pots and eat purple all turn into a super dude Gnolls, Barachians and Wu Jian are all recent additions that are really cool and were all written by goons. I really recommend you to try them. I agree that there are definitely things to criticize about the design philosophy of the most active developers recently, but there are still plenty of interesting and good things being added to the game.
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Dec 6, 2017 13:55
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This is a separate post because it's addressing a completely different subject. What do people think of Shroud of Golubria? For those who don't know and don't want to look at the wiki, this spell is a level 2 charms/translocations spell in the starting book for skalds and warpers that 2/3s of the time either blocks an attack completely or fails to block an attack and ends the spell. Learndb states the spell is effectively worth about 10 temporary HP. Personally, this is one of my most hated spells in the game. It's awful because, first, it's impossible to know what it's actually doing for you unless you check the learndb. Second, the only check on its usefulness is tedium. HOM will cast this spell before every fight, even in the late game. For normal players, who just give up on casting it eventually, not only is there no way good way to determine when it's no longer worth casting, even dealing with it from d:1 or 2 feels like a pain. Third, regardless of its actual utility, it feels really weak and low impact. Just compare it with charms like regeneration, spectral weapon, song of slaying and even infusion. As a final gently caress you to the spell, it doesn't benefit from spell power except for duration, which is mostly pointless. However, it's an important spell that's also hard to balance. The commit adding it stated it's intended to be weak past the early game since (in 2012) charms and translocations both were filled with "staple spells". But it gives a powerful, early defensive tool to some very weak backgrounds. Of course, in proper keeping with the nature of the spell, it major benefit is invisible if you don't know the mechanics of the game intimately. It blocks low damage attacks well, but when it does so, it also blocks special effects caused by those attacks. That means it's a strong spell against dangerous early game enemies, in particular adders, but also ice beasts and killer bees. Just removing shroud would make the game better overall, but would screw skalds and warpers. Presumably that's why it hasn't been removed yet. Does anyone have any ideas for Shroud of Golubria? The spell doesn't have to be simply replaced with another spell or reworked. Each separate class could get its own buff. Heaven knows warpers need a serious buff anyway. How does hellcrawl handle this spell? I'm interested in making charms fun and cool, but I don't think sustains are the answer, rather I think they should be very powerful, short duration buffs with strong tradeoffs. Assuming some crazy world in which two extremely unlikely events converge: someone actually wrote a bunch of good charms and the devs actually agreed to add them to the game. In that case, how would you free warpers and skalds from Shroud of Golubria?
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Dec 6, 2017 19:10
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I don't like charms in general but the blocking special effects thing is cool - I had no idea, never thought about that. Maybe make it long lasting, and it only blocks those add-on effects while *increasing* the damage from regular attacks? Then it's a tradeoff but it sounds hard to balance between OP and useless, there's no stable equilibrium there. Maybe, in lieu of a spell, "shrouded armor" could sometimes block non direct-damage addon effects and skalds/warpers start with shrouded leather armor?
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Dec 6, 2017 19:17
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IIRC Shroud actually rolls against the post-armor-reduction damage of an attack so if you’re really tanky it can be wortwhile against fast-attacking, comparatively-low-damage threats through the mid/endgame.
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Dec 6, 2017 19:26
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It goes back to the same problem all buffs have in crawl, and I'd love to see the hellcrawl solution used in dcss. Buffs are permanent, they reserve mana and do whatever they say. This works in hellcrawl because xp gains are faster so the benefit of casting a buff spell with 95% fail chance till it works is muddled, so I dunno about normal crawl pulling it whole-hog.
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Dec 6, 2017 19:29
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Chakan posted:It goes back to the same problem all buffs have in crawl, and I'd love to see the hellcrawl solution used in dcss. Buffs are permanent, they reserve mana and do whatever they say. This works in hellcrawl because xp gains are faster so the benefit of casting a buff spell with 95% fail chance till it works is muddled, so I dunno about normal crawl pulling it whole-hog. Add a random chance to deactivate that scales with your success chance to cast it. So you can't just switch to archmage robes for 1% failure chance, because the chance to deactivate is based on the current cast chance. When you switch back to your PDA and have a 99% fail chance, there's [incredible complicated formula for no reason] chance to deactive with something like 0% chance to deactivate at <5% and scales to 50% chance to deactivate at 95% or something. RE: Shroud of Golburia. I literally can't be assed to use it. I somewhat knew what it did from consulting the bots, but it is incredibly tedious and uninterested to use. A good change aside from the obvious reservation, would be a charge system. Casting gives you a buff (ala song of slaying) with X charges (based on spell power/armour encumbrance?) and each time it procs just remove a charge. It'll be less usefull late game if you want to move to heavier armour, or become a non-tedious spell for skalds as you get like 20 charges a cast or something.
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Dec 6, 2017 20:24
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Cerepol posted:Add a random chance to deactivate that scales with your success chance to cast it. So you can't just switch to archmage robes for 1% failure chance, because the chance to deactivate is based on the current cast chance. When you switch back to your PDA and have a 99% fail chance, there's [incredible complicated formula for no reason] chance to deactive with something like 0% chance to deactivate at <5% and scales to 50% chance to deactivate at 95% or something.
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Dec 6, 2017 20:53
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:I don't like charms in general but the blocking special effects thing is cool - I had no idea, never thought about that. Maybe make it long lasting, and it only blocks those add-on effects while *increasing* the damage from regular attacks? Then it's a tradeoff but it sounds hard to balance between OP and useless, there's no stable equilibrium there. I thought of the first one before going to sleep last night and I agree it seems hard to balance and maybe too much of a change in what the spell is supposed to do. I quite like the second idea, though. Chakan posted:It goes back to the same problem all buffs have in crawl, and I'd love to see the hellcrawl solution used in dcss. Buffs are permanent, they reserve mana and do whatever they say. This works in hellcrawl because xp gains are faster so the benefit of casting a buff spell with 95% fail chance till it works is muddled, so I dunno about normal crawl pulling it whole-hog. I'm not opposed to sustained buffs, but I think they only make up part of an interesting buff system. I'd like to see sustains used for transmutations, for example, and perhaps a few charms. But I think for charms to feel robust and justified as a school, it has to provide more active choices it that affect the tactical dimension of the game, not just character builds. I like charms conceptually and I love playing hybrid characters, but the school, and most hybrids in general, are in a pretty sorry state in vanilla crawl. I'll have to try some hellcrawl to see how charms plays out there. Song of slaying and spectral weapon are pretty good charms, right now. Song of slaying gives a powerful benefit for a dangerous drawback. You definitely would prefer to not have the drawback on all the time, but you can't cancel the buff, so you're stuck with it once you've cast it. That really prompts decision making about like "do I risk using this spell and making a bunch of noise for longer than I'd like". Spectral weapon also is sometimes worth it and sometimes it's not. And it's also interesting to decide whether it's worth recasting if the weapon gets killed. Regeneration, on the other hand, is awful. You always want to have it on. Making it a sustain removes the busy work, but doesn't add any tactical implications. Reworking the spell is a nightmare, too, since it's useful both in and out of combat, so really you'd need to split it into two separate effects. An example of the kind of change I'd like to see would be to change Ozo's armor to have very short duration, give flat damage reduction, like deep dwarves have, on top of AC, but deal AC ignoring cold damage like manticore barbs when the player moves. Then the spell becomes incredibly strong, but requires important decision making about when to use it. Since it has a short duration, it also is tied more closely to MP management, so you have to choose if you want to throw one more icicle or keep your defenses up for another 7 turns or so.
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Dec 7, 2017 14:18
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Make ozo armor give a big ac boost but give it an ever increasing chance to shatter into an iceblast centered on you
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Dec 8, 2017 00:33
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In hellcrawl, is there any way to check the current MP cost of a permanent buff?
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Dec 8, 2017 22:51
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cheetah7071 posted:In hellcrawl, is there any way to check the current MP cost of a permanent buff? press I twice, or "Z?I" the minimum cost of the buff is equal to its spell level. lizardhunt fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Dec 9, 2017 |
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Dec 8, 2017 23:34
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I'm changing my suggested new thread title to: Hellcrawl 9: The Skeleton of a Good Idea
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Dec 9, 2017 08:04
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Chiming in to say that shroud of golubria is probably one of my least favorite spells, even as a fan of buffs. It doesn't last that long so you need to keep reacasting it but the bigger issue is that it doesn't feel like it does enough. Its a low level spell but when I can't even tell if its helping its hard to put up with the tedium of constantly recasting it. Phase shift lasted a really short period of time but it clearly gave you a large EV boost so I was much more willing to use it.
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Dec 9, 2017 08:14
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I think avoiding add-on effects of monster attacks is a cool ability and it's wasted on a short buff spell.
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Dec 9, 2017 09:34
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To clarify, avoiding the cold damage from ice beasts or poison from adders is only a side effect of blocking the original attack in the first place. As I understand it, damage, or poison, from those attacks are applied after the monster's original attack damage. If shroud prevents the adder from hitting you in the first place, it also prevents it from poisoning you. It's especially effective against adders and the like because the poison isn't considered when deciding whether shroud will block the attack. I think blocking extra damage from branded attacks is an interesting effect, but it could probably get weird and end up with lots of special cases. For example, would it block all branded weapon attacks from weapon wielding enemies? I'm pretty sure weapon brands are handled differently in the game's engine from things like the freezing damage caused by ice beasts, ice fiends and simulacra.
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Dec 9, 2017 10:51
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i had a thought about hell effects in crawl while  and it basically goes as suchright now hell effects basically work something like the game hitting you with random unavoidable bad things at random intervals, yeah? contam, damage, etc. not a lot of people really like it. there's not much player agency involved other than "stay out of hell" here's an alternate idea. what if instead, going into hell gave you an unremovable (other than by just leaving) debuff that gave you a chance of a specific hell effect happening when you take an action other than resting. the specific effect changes at random but fairly regular intervals and is displayed as the current debuff name, meaning you can see what you're risking by acting. sort of a hell weather system, if you would. for an in-play example, you're pushing through tartarus and you see that a contamination storm has kicked up. now you're presented with a handful of choices here about how to try avoid this, such as just stopping where you are and hoping nothing finds you before its over, or taking the risk of contamination happening while you duck into a safer position with more of your los blocked off. what do yall think?
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Dec 9, 2017 12:32
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Tollymain posted:here's an alternate idea. what if instead, going into hell gave you an unremovable (other than by just leaving) debuff that gave you a chance of a specific hell effect happening when you take an action other than resting. the specific effect changes at random but fairly regular intervals and is displayed as the current debuff name, meaning you can see what you're risking by acting. sort of a hell weather system, if you would. for an in-play example, you're pushing through tartarus and you see that a contamination storm has kicked up. now you're presented with a handful of choices here about how to try avoid this, such as just stopping where you are and hoping nothing finds you before its over, or taking the risk of contamination happening while you duck into a safer position with more of your los blocked off. I think solving paralysis would solve hell effects. I like the idea but it's definitely a big buff as the whole idea of hell is you are supposed to be deciding between resting and getting the FO and coming back when you can get further faster due to having mapped levels. I would still be in favor as it provides more player agency and hell is a big enough pain as it is. Really if you could fix hell effects this way, fix charms aka hellcrawl, and get rid of trog and okawaru you'd really just have to deal with mutations to have a game even the pissiest goons would have trouble hating. Oh, and bring back book amnesia and singularity. Of course, the eventual trunk charms "fix" will be the hellcrawl fix, but in addition to MP reservation you'll have extra contamination and hunger effects. All of it will be calculated by going through 2 stepdowns and a non-linear transform with a random factor based on the digits to the right of the decimal in the temperature of an arctic weather station. You won't know how much MP you have left but the game will help by giving you a wildly inaccurate % chance to use a spell or power. If your ping to the weather station is too high the game will compensate by killing you.
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Dec 10, 2017 17:29
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What's wrong with trog and oka? They're boring but effective
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Dec 11, 2017 01:46
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Speleothing posted:What's wrong with trog and oka? They're boring but effective Presumably the Effective part.
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Dec 11, 2017 01:57
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Tollymain posted:i had a thought about hell effects in crawl while No way would that get in. Knowing what hell effect you are going to subjected to next would encourage you to waste time fighting chaff enemies rather than progressing. If you see a nasty effect coming up you wouldn't want to progress to a dangerous area, so you'd just wander around until it activated. The devs absolutely hate that kind of gameplay so it would never get in. But let me be clear; it doesn't matter what your propose as a change to hell. There have been tons of good proposals. The reason it never changes is because none of the devs care enough about extended to go through the effort of making an extensive hell revamp. Everyone knows it sucks but since its not an easy thing to fix nobody is motivated to deal with it.
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Dec 11, 2017 02:03
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