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Angry Grimace posted:Except they're not. Modern and Legacy aren't going to be on Arena basically ever. It's not a matter of just "put the cards in" it takes loving forever to put new cards in and they release 4 sets a year. You don't know that and WOTC isn't going to say otherwise until arena is printing money. In all fairness the dev on the first day accidentally talked about adding modern and wotc only backtracked after people freaked out about modo collection $$. You do understand that adding cards to modo and arena might be dramatically different levels of work right? You can't compare everything to modo's terrible benchmark.
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Dec 5, 2017 19:43
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Pac-Manioc Root posted:I still think they should print a physical vintage cube set with the new P9 art as a collector's product, and wildly nonstandard backings. I bet they could probably rake in $200-300 MSRP for a product that probably wouldn't cost terribly much more to produce than a Deckbuilder's Toolkit with that kind of cachet. Who cares what their long term goal is when Arena isn't even out until mid 2018 and they're not implementing trading or any modern cards. Even assuming, for the sake of argument, they intended to replace MTGO, it isn't happening for like half a decade. Sickening posted:You don't know that and WOTC isn't going to say otherwise until arena is printing money. In all fairness the dev on the first day accidentally talked about adding modern and wotc only backtracked after people freaked out about modo collection $$. Repeat: Who cares what their long term goal is when Arena isn't even out until mid 2018 and they're not implementing trading or any modern cards. Even assuming, for the sake of argument, they intended to replace MTGO and actually do that, it isn't happening for like half a decade.
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Dec 5, 2017 19:46
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Angry Grimace posted:Who cares what their long term goal is when Arena isn't even out until mid 2018 and they're not implementing trading or any modern cards. Even assuming, for the sake of argument, they intended to replace MTGO, it isn't happening for like half a decade. Where is the estimated release date posted?
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Dec 5, 2017 19:47
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Sickening posted:Where is the estimated release date posted? Who cares? That's the earliest it could come out given that open beta has no start date and they're still planning to send closed beta invites through January. They're still in priority invite only.
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Dec 5, 2017 19:49
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Angry Grimace posted:Who cares? That's the earliest it could come out given that open beta isn't even scheduled to start until next year. They're still in priority invite only. You do realize its December right? Next year is less than a month away. This isn't a dramatically long timeline. Open beta's in this day and age is basically just a stress test before release if not a release in itself.
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Dec 5, 2017 19:50
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There was a royalties structure renegotiation at some point. The artists that refused the new terms are the ones that have pieces that are not re-used. Prior to the change in royalties, some of them were pulling like six figures, which is awesome, but probably unsustainable.
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Dec 5, 2017 19:50
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Grimace is right. Clearly the long term plan is to unify them but it will take years and years.
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Dec 5, 2017 19:50
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Sickening posted:You do realize its December right? Next year is less than a month away. This isn't a dramatically long timeline. What's your point? MTGO isn't imminently going away even if it gets you hard to think it is. It isn't realistic at all to think they have a super secret plan that will be rolled out any time soon which involves adding trading and modern cards.
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Dec 5, 2017 19:51
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Angry Grimace posted:Who cares what their long term goal is when Arena isn't even out until mid 2018 and they're not implementing trading or any modern cards. Even assuming, for the sake of argument, they intended to replace MTGO, it isn't happening for like half a decade. I'm curious where you heard that they have no plans to back-port older sets into Arena. Obviously that won't be their focus at launch or for a long time, but are you suggesting it'll be Standard-only forever?
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Dec 5, 2017 19:52
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Angry Grimace posted:What's your point? MTGO isn't going away imminently even if it gets you hard to think it is. IMO the main reason MTGO isn't going away is it is a really important piece of almost every PT players practice regimen. And without PTs and GPs and whatnot, Magic would be nowhere near as successful.
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Dec 5, 2017 19:52
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Grimace you seem really, really mad about this I am sure if they sunset MODO they would work out some kind of voucher/porting system; I can't imagine them risking the volcanic apoplexy "Nah your MTGOX cards are gone forever when we shut the servers down" would cause. There is no reason to be so upset about this speculation. "Volcanic Apoplexy" would be a good name for a card. FreelanceSocialist posted:IMO the main reason MTGO isn't going away is it is a really important piece of almost every PT players practice regimen. And without PTs and GPs and whatnot, Magic would be nowhere near as successful. You can bet someone selling Arena as RoboCop to MODO's Ed-209 already made a board room pitch about how it will look a lot sexier to have the tryhards streaming on a fancy animated client. Owlbear Camus fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Dec 5, 2017 |
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Dec 5, 2017 19:53
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Salvor_Hardin posted:Wait so Dan Frazier gets a cut of all MTG profits in perpetuity? Or just on Black Lotus related sales? Just products that use his art. Christopher Rush did the original Black Lotus. It's why you see new art for anything reprinted from before Mirage e: iirc Magic switched from royalties to one-time payments before 2000 (99?) and came to an agreement with the older artists about re-use of their existing work. TheChirurgeon fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Dec 5, 2017 |
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Dec 5, 2017 19:54
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Angry Grimace posted:What's your point? MTGO isn't imminently going away even if it gets you hard to think it is. It isn't realistic at all to think they have a super secret plan involving adding trading and modern cards. I don't think they are going to add trading at all. I am not going to stick my head in the sand and pretend WOTC is going to honor all the money spent in modo either. Arena is the future platform and arena is shockingly farther ahead already than I would have thought WOTC could do. PhyrexianLibrarian posted:I'm curious where you heard that they have no plans to back-port older sets into Arena. Obviously that won't be their focus at launch or for a long time, but are you suggesting it'll be Standard-only forever? Its funny because the dev in the first stream talked about porting older cards. WOTC has said that they don't currently plan to get rid of MTGO and LOL at that giving anyone any confidence.
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Dec 5, 2017 19:54
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Pac-Manioc Root posted:Grimace you seem really, really mad about this I am sure if they sunset MODO they would work out some kind of voucher/porting system; I can't imagine them risking the volcanic apoplexy "Nah your MTGOX cards are gone forever when we shut the servers down" would cause. There is no reason to be so upset about this speculation. Yes, someone can't have an (well-reasoned, I might add) opinion you don't like without being "really, really mad." I'm not interested in "why u mad" trolling, sorry - trying to counter a position by accusing the other guy of "being really mad/upset" is loving stupid and you should feel really upset and mad that you tried it instead of coming up with some cogent argument that MTGO is being sunsetted in any kind of reasonable short-term timeframe, which you can't. Sickening posted:I don't think they are going to add trading at all. I am not going to stick my head in the sand and pretend WOTC is going to honor all the money spent in modo either. Arena is the future platform and arena is shockingly farther ahead already than I would have thought WOTC could do. I'm not suggesting it isn't a reasonable or intelligent plan to fold the programs together: it's that it's a lot of work and is very unlikely to occur any time soon - particularly given that Arena has to actually be successful before they're going to put the work into shutting down a separate, existing program that gives them real money in exchange for product that doesn't even exist in reality. The problem is that Arena's goal is to compete with something like Hearthstone (which doesn't let you just buy the cards you want) and Magic's paper system works largely opposite to that in that it's "pay to win" by just buying the best cards. They'd need to come up with some kind of system that would actually let you do that within the existing framework of not having trading. I'm sure someone can come up with something that does that, it's just that I don't see them implementing in a way in which anyone needs to worry about their MTGO accounts for the foreseeable future. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Dec 5, 2017 |
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Dec 5, 2017 19:55
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Angry Grimace posted:Yes, someone can't have an (well-reasoned, I might add) opinion you don't like without being "really, really mad." I'm not interested in "why u mad" trolling, sorry - trying to counter a position by accusing the other guy of "being really mad/upset" is loving stupid and you should feel really upset and mad that you tried it instead of coming up with some cogent argument that MTGO is being sunsetted in any kind of reasonable short-term timeframe, which you can't. Yes, digital cards games have not figured out how to make constructed work if you can't trade cards. Its going to take years to work out.  I am having a hard time how someone could look at arena and then at mtgo and say "I am not sure if arena is going to be successful." MTGO existing at all is testament that people are going to play arena. People have to deal with one of the worst UI's in all of gaming to just play magic online. Sickening fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Dec 5, 2017 |
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Dec 5, 2017 20:12
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Sickening posted:Yes, digital cards games have not figured out how to make constructed work if you can't trade cards. Its going to take years to work out. It sounds more like you're just saying it will happen because you want it to happen. I'm not even saying I DON'T want it to happen - I don't care which platform Magic is played on and I'll probably play Arena as soon as I can play it. It's just not necessarily as simple as you're making it out to be. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Dec 5, 2017 |
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Dec 5, 2017 20:15
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You guys are acting like MTGO collections going away would cause more of an uproar than Gabe shutting down Steam and taking everyone’s collections. trick question, Amazon or another online hosting service would actually want to buy steam
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Dec 5, 2017 20:16
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Editing your post to add more "I'm mad" swears makes you seem mad, fellow forums user. It's foolish to make an absolute predictions given that WotC's track record on digital offerings. IDK what we're gonna call "near term," but your "half decade" might be a good outside ballpark for when I'd look for signs of the migration to begin in earnest. Arena might also fall flat on its face and bore a hole into the Earth's mantle. But if it doesn't, I'm willing bet they will end goal want everyone on the same platform and every big famous pro tour guy streaming on the newer, more visually interesting client. They're going to be pushing it hard; you don't spend the time and money on a new digital offering like this just so you can be completely ambivalent about whether people stay on the legacy client or adopt the new one. Chill la Chill posted:You guys are acting like MTGO collections going away would cause more of an uproar than Gabe shutting down Steam and taking everyone’s collections. I suspect if and when they sunset MTGO in favor of Arena they will try like Hell to thread the needle of offering just enough recompense to avoid revolt while still obviating just enough of everyone's legacy platform "investment" to make it mildly distasteful and insulting. Owlbear Camus fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Dec 5, 2017 |
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Dec 5, 2017 20:16
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Pac-Manioc Root posted:Editing your post to add more "I'm mad" swears makes you seem mad, fellow forums user. I'm not denying I'm annoyed at your dumb "you're mad" argument. It's an annoying troll argument. But you're confusing the issue here: I don't actually care which platform MTG is on. It's just silly to suggest they specifically have a merger plan in place (when they've largely either denied or demurred to that question) and also silly to suggest it's happening for certain anytime soon. It's more logistically difficult than you guys are making it out to be. You're talking about a scale of years. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Dec 5, 2017 |
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Dec 5, 2017 20:18
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Angry Grimace posted:Magic isn't a "digital card game." It's a paper game that has a digital equivalent, which makes the equation very different. The point of MTGO is converting the paper game into a digital equivalent as closely as possible, which involves trading and being able to acquire the cards you want. It's literally part of the game and when you're talking about adding in older sets, you're talking about literally thousands and thousands of cards. And there's a difference between "successful" and "successful enough to shutter an entirely different program that already exists and isn't in a beta." It doesn't make it very different at all. The game is still played the same its only makes building your collection slightly different. Slightly in that you might have to craft cards instead of buy them. This isn't some dramatic process that changes the entire game. Stop pretending to be this idiotic. People don't play MTGO because they like MTGO. They play MTGO because they like to play magic. Once arena is live, the only reason to play MTGO is to play whatever formats arena doesn't have yet. The cool thing about arena is that people might play arena because of it instead of in spite of it, as per MTGO.
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Dec 5, 2017 20:21
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Pac-Manioc Root posted:You can bet someone selling Arena as RoboCop to MODO's Ed-209 already made a board room pitch about how it will look a lot sexier to have the tryhards streaming on a fancy animated client. I'm pretty sure they've stated publicly that this is a huge reason for Arena.
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Dec 5, 2017 20:23
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Sickening posted:It doesn't make it very different at all. The game is still played the same its only makes building your collection slightly different. Slightly in that you might have to craft cards instead of buy them. This isn't some dramatic process that changes the entire game. Stop pretending to be this idiotic.
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Dec 5, 2017 20:24
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Angry Grimace posted:I don't really know what to tell you if you think 'crafting your cards' is only slightly different from how Magic the Gathering has worked since 1993. Considering you are going to open prize packs and use draft chaff to build your collection already, built right into the current game and exactly how it works right now. All that is left is what supplements your collection to fill in the gaps. This isn't world changing, its barely a fart in the wind. And no, visiting loving 3rd party bots to buy cards individually for real money is not how a company wants their modern product to work. This isn't somehow superior in any way. Sickening fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Dec 5, 2017 |
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Dec 5, 2017 20:26
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Sickening posted:Yes, digital cards games have not figured out how to make constructed work if you can't trade cards. Its going to take years to work out. Hearthstone makes it work because trading isn't a fundamental part of how people engage with it, unlike magic. Apples and oranges.
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Dec 5, 2017 20:32
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Sickening posted:Considering you are going to open prize packs and use draft chaff to build your collection already, built right into the current game and exactly how it works right now. All that is left is what supplements your collection to fill in the gaps. This isn't world changing, its barely a fart in the wind. That's literally how it works in the real world which is why its expected in digital Also what if I don't play draft and just want to focus on standard
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Dec 5, 2017 20:33
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:Hearthstone makes it work because trading isn't a fundamental part of how people engage with it, unlike magic. Apples and oranges. Trading isn't the fundamental way people engage with MTGO either, playing the game is. (Outside of the 3rd party middle men skimming money out of the system). Trading is a necessary thing you have to do to get to the actual game. Its not apples and oranges. Magic is still magic if trading isn't a thing in the digital space. BENGHAZI 2 posted:Also what if I don't play draft and just want to focus on standard Spoiler: You will spend money on it, just like you do now. Sickening fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Dec 5, 2017 |
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Dec 5, 2017 20:35
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Angry Grimace workin' overtime here now that NeoGAF died and he can't shitpost there. Just ignore him, you dumbs.
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Dec 5, 2017 20:40
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Trading can be fun, paging through the other guy's binder and turning his trash into your treasure and vice versa. It's a great angle for further socialization after/before/between physical meatspace events. I don't think its a sine qua non to the act of playing Magic to the point where a digital version that had some other mechanism of acquiring cards for the constructed game would be widely rejected as "not magic." E: like... Tell me if you could "disenchant" your cards in real life and make a couple Scalding Tarns or w/e out of a bunch of bulk no human would ever be interested in you wouldn't be pleased? Owlbear Camus fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Dec 5, 2017 |
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Dec 5, 2017 20:41
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Pac-Manioc Root posted:Trading can be fun, paging through the other guy's binder and turning his trash into your treasure and vice versa. It's a great angle for further socialization after/before/between physical meatspace events. Yeah, bot trading has always been this really awkward way of digitally attempting to recreate the LGS/Trading socialization aspect from the physical game.
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Dec 5, 2017 20:46
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PJOmega posted:Yeah, bot trading has always been this really awkward way of digitally attempting to recreate the LGS/Trading socialization aspect from the physical game. Its crazy to me how many businesses are totally devoted to being a middleman on mtgo. That isn't a good sign for your game.
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Dec 5, 2017 20:49
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PJOmega posted:Yeah, bot trading has always been this really awkward way of digitally attempting to recreate the LGS/Trading socialization aspect from the physical game. Honestly trading on MTGO was the worst thing about using that program so arena doing away with it is awesome. I sold out of my modo collection but i'll probably join arena if it just has card crafting and i'll likely spend actual money on it too, compared to the zero dollars I'm spending on mtgo.
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Dec 5, 2017 20:50
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Sickening posted:Considering you are going to open prize packs and use draft chaff to build your collection already, built right into the current game and exactly how it works right now. All that is left is what supplements your collection to fill in the gaps. This isn't world changing, its barely a fart in the wind. Yeah there’s really no difference between turning 0.001c to a bot and redeeming it for 50c card and turning them into dust for creation of other cards, except you pay the premium of a middleman. Also it’s been a couple years since I’ve used MODO now but do they still have that awful bulletin board sales system? It’s funny that it’s even worse than Craigslist
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Dec 5, 2017 20:50
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Pac-Manioc Root posted:Grimace you seem really, really mad about this I am sure if they sunset MODO they would work out some kind of voucher/porting system; I can't imagine them risking the volcanic apoplexy "Nah your MTGOX cards are gone forever when we shut the servers down" would cause. There is no reason to be so upset about this speculation.
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Dec 5, 2017 20:50
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Maro needs to be make a 6th psychographic for the #mtgfinance glorbs
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Dec 5, 2017 21:01
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Lone Goat posted:Maro needs to be make a 6th psychographic for the #mtgfinance glorbs I propose "Ebeneezer"
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Dec 5, 2017 21:02
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Toshimo posted:Angry Grimace workin' overtime here now that NeoGAF died and he can't shitpost there. Yeah, because posts with thought-out opinions and discussion are way worse than Toshimo-branded abrasiveposting. We get it, you don't like anyone.
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Dec 5, 2017 21:03
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Pac-Manioc Root posted:I propose "Ebeneezer" No no no. It should be called Rudy.
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Dec 5, 2017 21:03
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Star Man posted:No no no. It should be called Rudy. He seems like a silly dude. I still wonder if his 15 minute video to passionately explain why JVP wouldn't be in FTV Transform a day or two before all the babbywalkers were announced in it was just him being dumb, or some :masterstroke: attempt at market manipulation. Owlbear Camus fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Dec 5, 2017 |
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Dec 5, 2017 21:05
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Pac-Manioc Root posted:He seems like a silly dude. My FLGS owner takes him way too loving seriously.
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Dec 5, 2017 21:07
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t0mB7pTyWU
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Dec 5, 2017 21:07
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