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Ardennes posted:Easy, he says what people in DC want, and therefore he never had to be right or really even coherent. Grouchio is Tom Friedman's posting alias
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Dec 5, 2017 08:13
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UH OH panic time: https://www.thenational.ae/sheikh-khalifa-forms-joint-military-alliance-between-uae-and-saudi-arabia-1.681522 An Alliance independent of the GCC, between The UAE and Saudi Arabia. Im not sure what this acheives besides possibly tighten up security against leaks. quote:According to the resolution, the Committee will co-ordinate between the two countries in all military, political, economic, trade and cultural fields, as well as others, in the interest of the two countries.
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Dec 5, 2017 13:08
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Erdogan isn't happy, and it's hard to say he doesn't have a point here. I supported arming the YPG, but we obviously lied our asses off about what we were going, and Trump seems to have lied about it (or been convinced by the Pentagon that what he told Erdogan was dumb) just a week ago. https://twitter.com/CNNTURK_ENG/status/937976825468289025 He's not happy about our Israel policy either. https://twitter.com/CNNTURK_ENG/status/937975522730102784
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Dec 5, 2017 14:22
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Turkey also hit the PKK in Iraq around the same time as his speech. Poor Erdogan. With everything going on in Yemen nobody is paying any attention to him.
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Dec 5, 2017 14:37
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Fizzil posted:UH OH panic time: There's no panic needed, this just makes the GCC (which was the only cooperative body people thought would actually work) offficially dead, and the same two bungling failures get to officially fail together.
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Dec 5, 2017 16:15
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I don’t understand why SA wants to keep antagonizing Iran when they can’t even deal with this situation in Yemen. I’m guessing they think they can get Trump to back them in a war or something
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Dec 5, 2017 16:27
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FlamingLiberal posted:I don’t understand why SA wants to keep antagonizing Iran when they can’t even deal with this situation in Yemen. I’m guessing they think they can get Trump to back them in a war or something Yeah that's what binds KSA, Israel, and Trump. A loathing of Iran and a desire for war.
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Dec 5, 2017 16:35
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Count Roland posted:Yeah that's what binds KSA, Israel, and Trump. A loathing of Iran and a desire for war. Yeah, the preferred narrative for all of them blames all the problems of the region on the Iranian Revolution in 1979 because it's more convenient than blaming any of the radicalization on the Palestinian question or on Saudi Arabia empowering reactionaries after the grand mosque seizure. Obviously Iran really has been part of the problem, but addressing one part of it without addressing the others is obviously myopic (though MBS at least pays lip service to addressing the problems in Saudi Arabia too--we'll see).
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Dec 5, 2017 16:42
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Sinteres posted:Yeah, the preferred narrative for all of them blames all the problems of the region on the Iranian Revolution in 1979 because it's more convenient than blaming any of the radicalization on the Palestinian question or on Saudi Arabia empowering reactionaries after the grand mosque seizure. Obviously Iran really has been part of the problem, but addressing one part of it without addressing the others is obviously myopic (though MBS at least pays lip service to addressing the problems in Saudi Arabia too--we'll see). Let's be honest here and MBS himself has lain his own trail of dysfunction if not destruction across the region already. Yeah, if he somehow diversified the Saudi economy and "halted radicalism" (hmmm), it might make up for some of the dumb poo poo he has done but come on. Iran obviously is its own self-interested power, but for the most part, they have been filling in power vacuums offered by either the US or the Saudis. I mean look at just the Palestinian question itself, both the US and the Saudis are about to side so heavily with Israel that they very well may make Iran the de facto the alternative fof anyone that doesn't want to see the Palestinians absolutely crushed (most of humanity to be honest). If anything Erdogan (as per his tweet) probably would need to cut ties with Israel, if only be on the "right side" with the rest of the Muslim world. The way I see it, if Iranians are being pushed into a position of increasing dominance because their opponents are delusional. At a certain point, arrogance becomes more than hubris but a mental illness (ie megalomania). Ardennes fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Dec 5, 2017 |
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Dec 5, 2017 17:00
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Here we go https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/938073972595478529
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Dec 5, 2017 17:03
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I hope they're at least smart enough to say West Jerusalem when they do it, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Dec 5, 2017 17:04
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Sinteres posted:I hope they're at least smart enough to say West Jerusalem when they do it, but I'm not holding my breath. I don't think it matters, I think everyone assumes it is West Jerusalem. That said, I guess it would be even more of a dick move to bulldoze some Palestinian houses over it. Anyway if the tweet is true, the peace process/"two-state solution"/"American neutrality" is done. The Oslo process finally found a corner to curl itself up in and die.
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Dec 5, 2017 17:17
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Ardennes posted:I don't think it matters, I think everyone assumes it is West Jerusalem. That said, I guess it would be even more of a dick move to bulldoze some Palestinian houses over it. Maybe these semantic games don't matter much in comparison with the fact of the embassy (and occupation) on the ground, but I think the US needs to make clear that this move doesn't mean we're accepting that the entirety of Jerusalem is Israel's forever. Leaving open the possibility of opening an embassy for Palestine in East Jerusalem could at least soften the blow a little bit, but obviously I don't expect Trump to make an explicit nod toward that since he's not remotely an honest broker and this is a domestic political stunt.
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Dec 5, 2017 17:41
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Sinteres posted:Maybe these semantic games don't matter much in comparison with the fact of the embassy (and occupation) on the ground, but I think the US needs to make clear that this move doesn't mean we're accepting that the entirety of Jerusalem is Israel's forever. Leaving open the possibility of opening an embassy for Palestine in East Jerusalem could at least soften the blow a little bit, but obviously I don't expect Trump to make an explicit nod toward that since he's not remotely an honest broker and this is a domestic political stunt. At the end of the day, it is a red line and makes any discussions after it moot. It shows that the US isn't a neutral actor and will actively try to change major parts of the "game" while the rules are being discussed. Also, much of it is how it plays outside Palestine itself....which I expect is extremely negative. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Dec 5, 2017 |
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Dec 5, 2017 17:50
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It'll be interesting how it plays in Saudi Arabia, given our discussion.
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Dec 5, 2017 17:55
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Ardennes posted:Iran obviously is its own self-interested power, but for the most part, they have been filling in power vacuums offered by either the US or the Saudis. An Iranian backed militia just assassinated a prominent world leader in front of the world. Come the gently caress on. Can you imagine your response if the US did that? Biased as hell.
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Dec 5, 2017 17:58
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Volkerball posted:An Iranian backed militia just assassinated a prominent world leader in front of the world. Come the gently caress on. Can you imagine your response if the US did that? Biased as hell. That's not a particularly accurate description of what happened. One warlord backstabbed a militia he was aligned with and got killed for it. Yeah, he was the former president of the country, but as an active participant in the war he wasn't just some politician who got killed for no reason. Plus if Iran murdered Saleh by working with a friendly militia in Yemen, the US murdered Qaddafi by throwing the war to the rebels there (not trying to engage in whataboutism, just addressing your 'imagine the US doing it' point), and he was the current leader of Libya at the time. Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Dec 5, 2017 |
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Dec 5, 2017 18:00
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Volkerball posted:An Iranian backed militia just assassinated a prominent world leader in front of the world. Come the gently caress on. Can you imagine your response if the US did that? Biased as hell. "i am confident that this will not degenerate into open slave trade in the streets of libya, because the united states is a force for good in the world"
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Dec 5, 2017 18:09
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Volkerball posted:An Iranian backed militia just assassinated a prominent world leader in front of the world. Come the gently caress on. Can you imagine your response if the US did that? Biased as hell. He was executed in wartime by his enemies. It looks like it was a relatively quick kill, unlike Gaddafi. As for the US, it happens all the time, we are still trying to kill Baghdadi. (Also, he was a deposed leader that seemed to have found little loyalty even among his own forces.)
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Dec 5, 2017 18:13
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Volkerball posted:An Iranian backed militia just assassinated a prominent world leader in front of the world. Come the gently caress on. Can you imagine your response if the US did that? Biased as hell. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Muammar_Gaddafi
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Dec 5, 2017 18:15
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Ardennes posted:(Also, he was a deposed leader that seemed to have found little loyalty even among his own forces.) I'd wager Saleh was the most popular leader in all of Yemen even at the time of his death.
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Dec 5, 2017 18:16
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Wow I forgot about this quote: The United States' Secretary of State at the time, Hillary Clinton, stated "We came. We saw. He died."
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Dec 5, 2017 18:21
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Svartvit posted:I'd wager Saleh was the most popular leader in all of Yemen even at the time of his death. Maybe in a technical sense since there are 6+ major factions fighting it out in Yemen at the moment. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Dec 5, 2017 |
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Dec 5, 2017 18:26
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Sinteres posted:Wow I forgot about this quote:
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Dec 5, 2017 18:27
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I hope the us embassy is built right on the center of the Temple Mount.
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Dec 5, 2017 18:29
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Hafez was right.
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Dec 5, 2017 18:31
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Ardennes posted:Maybe in a technical sense since there are 6+ major factions fighting it out in Yemen at the moment. I mean there have also been what, two "leaders of Yemen" in the last forty years?
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Dec 5, 2017 18:32
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Moatman posted:I mean there have also been what, two "leaders of Yemen" in the last forty years? If you count South Yemen a few more.
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Dec 5, 2017 18:38
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:If you count South Yemen a few more. And you maybe get three more if you count the north.Most of whom were assassinated or disposed. 
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Dec 5, 2017 18:43
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Fizzil posted:UH OH panic time: UAE has a relatively youthful demagraphic (of Emiratis ofc, since that's the only ethnicity that matters in that country) with an abundance of rich, spoiled, and bored young men wanting to make their mark. I'm sure it's the same with the princes of SA. What a shitshow for the rest of the ME. It's Young Turks as all hell.
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Dec 5, 2017 20:47
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How was Saleh a "prominent world leader"? Like even if you considered him the legitimate chief of state of Yemen (a different debate in the first place), how is leadership of Yemen something that makes you prominent?
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Dec 5, 2017 22:12
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Cat Mattress posted:How was Saleh a "prominent world leader"? Like even if you considered him the legitimate chief of state of Yemen (a different debate in the first place), how is leadership of Yemen something that makes you prominent? Well he has met like a bunch of US presidents, world leaders, etc. Less prominent than Ghadaffi. I wish I had plat to search the old thread to see what people said at the time...Oh well. Certainly no one celebrated his death. We are all just biased about Iran assassinating world leaders I guess.
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Dec 5, 2017 22:23
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Iran assassinated him now. You people are demented.
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Dec 5, 2017 22:29
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 SAFAVIDS!
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Dec 5, 2017 22:34
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Coldwar timewarp posted:Well he has met like a bunch of US presidents, world leaders, etc. Less prominent than Ghadaffi. I wish I had plat to search the old thread to see what people said at the time...Oh well. Certainly no one celebrated his death. We are all just biased about Iran assassinating world leaders I guess. A leader dying in an ongoing civil war that he is actively a part of is a far stretch from 'assassination'.
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Dec 5, 2017 22:35
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Coldwar timewarp posted:Well he has met like a bunch of US presidents, world leaders, etc. Less prominent than Ghadaffi. I wish I had plat to search the old thread to see what people said at the time...Oh well. Certainly no one celebrated his death. We are all just biased about Iran assassinating world leaders I guess. I think the point was that Yemen is one of the poorest countries in the world, therefore he was the leader of Yemen but not a World Leader™.
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Dec 5, 2017 22:36
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Pretty good hearing the guys calling for regimen change 24/7 getting all indignant about an expresident getting got.
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Dec 5, 2017 23:04
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coathat posted:Pretty good hearing the guys calling for regimen change 24/7 getting all indignant about an expresident getting got. I don't think anyone has advocated regime change at least since this iteration of the thread started. Stop trolling and 
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Dec 5, 2017 23:30
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It's wrong to shoot dictators, guillotines all the way.
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Dec 5, 2017 23:33
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Didn't Saleh kick off the current phase of fighting when he tried to use the Houthis to return to power? It would be nice if his stunt had ended the war somehow but it's hard to feel bad about him getting dead,
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Dec 5, 2017 23:51
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