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Svartvit posted:Israel already have the same rights as any other sovereign state. What is the argument behind making some kind of a super-state through UN resolutions? Ordinarily they wouldn't be. It's a symbolic thing because the UN has repeatedly been used as a cudgel in this conflict, and there's especially a spotlight on them because UNESCO passed a few resolutions denying Jewish ties to the region. Mr. Lobe posted:There is a call for an oppressed ethnic group for a boycott, so boycotting is showing solidarity with that group. If other oppressed groups were to make the same calls against their oppressors, for instance the way Black South Africans did, then boycotting is also the way to show solidarity, too. This is a cop out. Kurds, Tibetans, Cypriots, Ukrainians, etc... have demanded their rights, and have been largely ignored. And for the last two, it's a perfect analogy regarding legality of the occupation. Either rights are universal or they aren't.
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Dec 3, 2017 22:40
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Kim Jong Il posted:Ordinarily they wouldn't be. It's a symbolic thing If Israel has the right to be recognized as a Jewish Nation just for Jews (gently caress off every other ethnicity) then every single other nation on Earth has the right to likewise declare one ethnicity that they're for and all others can go get hosed. Either rights are universal or they aren't.
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Dec 3, 2017 23:03
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Cat Mattress posted:If Israel has the right to be recognized as a Jewish Nation just for Jews (gently caress off every other ethnicity) then every single other nation on Earth has the right to likewise declare one ethnicity that they're for and all others can go get hosed. Either rights are universal or they aren't. This happens everywhere, anyway, just without a declaration. It's only more necessary for Israel because of the presence of other large, contradictory demographics. Like a hot nickel ball in water there is steam at the contact surfaces. For example, the USA is a de-facto white Christian/secular country. There's no need to declare it or debate it because that demo is secure and unthreatened. If 120 million fundamentalist Muslims suddenly appeared in the USA you can bet there'd be staunch ethnic division, too. Heck, they make a fuss about illegal Mexicans that make up less than 0.5% of the population. Israel isn't some weird alien place where people act total different from the rest of us. If your book club included a group of people who play Warhammer instead, you'd certainly want to assert your book-clubedness.
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Dec 3, 2017 23:31
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It's not "necessary" for anyone because racism and ethnic supremacy are not only unnecessary but also wrong, evil, horrific, and counterproductive to goals of a prosperous and just society, hope that helps!
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Dec 4, 2017 05:23
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ariel
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Dec 4, 2017 05:25
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Pantsbird posted:This happens everywhere, anyway, [citation needed] "everywhere" does not practice colonialism and apartheid.
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Dec 4, 2017 08:09
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DarkCrawler posted:[citation needed] "everywhere" does not practice colonialism and apartheid.
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Dec 4, 2017 08:16
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Pantsbird posted:This happens everywhere, anyway, just without a declaration. It's only more necessary for Israel because of the presence of other large, contradictory demographics. Like a hot nickel ball in water there is steam at the contact surfaces. So, it is necessary to oppress minorities now? Do you realize how hard it is not to  with this kind of logic?
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Dec 4, 2017 12:38
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By the way, to those who think the Israeli government genuinely cares about the Holocaust and doesn't just use it as yet another cheap defense of their heinous acts, how do you explain the terrible treatment of Holocaust survivors in Israel? Thousands of survivors haven't received the assistance they're entitled to from the government, monetary or otherwise. If Bibi and his friends care so much, then what's stopping them from you know, doing what the law directs them?
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Dec 4, 2017 12:50
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Cat Mattress posted:So, it is necessary to oppress minorities now? Do you realize how hard it is not to Any civilized society will recognize that minorities inevitably represent a fifth column, which must be concentrated and monitored until a lasting solution can be devised.
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Dec 4, 2017 18:54
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OctaMurk posted:Any civilized society will recognize that minorities inevitably represent a fifth column, which must be concentrated and monitored until a lasting solution can be devised. in the interest of preserving the essential character of this warhammer 40k club, we're going to need to start sterilizing book readers
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Dec 4, 2017 19:09
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Is Pantsbird real? Also no talk about the plan KSA apparently is pushing on Abbas huh?
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Dec 5, 2017 20:55
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Well now this decision by Trump to move the US Embassy to Jerusalem is a more immediate concern, but yes that report about MBS trying to force a garbage deal on the Palestinians is pretty awful. It will probably be harder to do now that Trump is sticking his dick in the mess that this is going to cause.
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Dec 5, 2017 21:12
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FlamingLiberal posted:Well now this decision by Trump to move the US Embassy to Jerusalem is a more immediate concern Is this really going to change anything? It seemed pretty obvious that the US sided with Israel over Palestine even before the move.
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Dec 5, 2017 21:29
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OctaMurk posted:Any civilized society will recognize that minorities inevitably represent a fifth column, which must be concentrated and monitored until a lasting solution can be devised. If they are significant, hostile, and irreconcilable, of course. The Arab population failed to react adequately to Jewish settlers and look where that got them. Ze Pollack posted:in the interest of preserving the essential character of this warhammer 40k club, we're going to need to start sterilizing book readers Wouldn't it be more reasonable to have two clubs? Or do book club and Warhammer on alternate days. Gozinbulx posted:Is Pantsbird real? Rude. Sorry to interrupt the dog pile. pokemon posted:ariel Thank you. She needed legs to join the prince on dry land. Jerusalem is also on dry land.
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Dec 5, 2017 22:17
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Pantsbird posted:Wouldn't it be more reasonable to have two clubs? Or do book club and Warhammer on alternate days. turns out the warhammer 40k club is unwilling to accept allowing the book club to have its own club i know, it's weird to me too
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Dec 5, 2017 22:18
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Ze Pollack posted:turns out the warhammer 40k club is unwilling to accept allowing the book club to have its own club I've heard this one but I don't understand it. The book club members need to form the book club. It's not up to the WH40k club to do it. If book club members can't agree on a book, afford books, or reserve a venue, that's their own problem.
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Dec 5, 2017 22:28
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nelson posted:Is this really going to change anything? It seemed pretty obvious that the US sided with Israel over Palestine even before the move.
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Dec 5, 2017 22:35
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Pantsbird posted:I've heard this one but I don't understand it. Unfortunately, in this idiot anime metaphor, the student council allowed the 40k club to take over part of the room occupied by the book club. Unfortunately, the 40k club has continually taken space from the book club until they have about one old beanbag, and on the other side of the room, half a bookshelf. I do like that you chose the fascist parody tabletop game to represent Israel tho.
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Dec 5, 2017 23:46
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pre-Israel, proud Zionist terrorists: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.826218
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Dec 5, 2017 23:53
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Pantsbird posted:If they are significant, hostile, and irreconcilable, of course. Pantsbird posted:The Arab population failed to react adequately to Jewish settlers and look where that got them.
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Dec 6, 2017 00:09
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fool_of_sound posted:Unfortunately, in this idiot anime metaphor, the student council allowed the 40k club to take over part of the room occupied by the book club. Unfortunately, the 40k club has continually taken space from the book club until they have about one old beanbag, and on the other side of the room, half a bookshelf. I do like that you chose the fascist parody tabletop game to represent Israel tho. Look, clearly it is the responsibility of the book club to find another empty room to hold their meetings in. Which I guess is supposed to be an analogy for, uh, all the random empty countries near Israel, just waiting to be settled? Or something? And obviously relocating millions of people is the same thing as a club moving to another room.
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Dec 6, 2017 00:09
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Cat Mattress posted:They are hostile and irreconcilable only because Israel wants to keep them that way. I mean, by analogy the adequate reaction he's proposing is the Palestinian population violently expelling proto-Israel (plus any Jews who were already there, unless they drop below the "significant" threshold, I guess) in self-defense.
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Dec 6, 2017 01:19
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GreyjoyBastard posted:I mean, by analogy the adequate reaction he's proposing is the Palestinian population violently expelling proto-Israel (plus any Jews who were already there, unless they drop below the "significant" threshold, I guess) in self-defense. Yes. The significant threshold is when it's too hard to find the enemy and their threat level is not worth the effort of hunting them down (or further wrath would dishonor the victor as appearing insecure, or provoke spite reactions from the defeated). Of course there was no way for the fragmented Arab powers to resist the thrust of European Jews with their European money and European sponsors. The question is when Israel will finally be safe and 'official'. The spite reactions have been sputtering for the last 60 years, but they're over now. The official recognition of Jerusalem is the cherry on top. It took a long time compared to North America, land mass and population-wise. But the Jews didn't have a huge population, or a bio-weapon, and the UN kept shutting down their genocides. It still turned out way better than Liberia. Lord Adonis suggested an Israel franchise scheme. This would be a great idea if not for the limited supply of Jews. You could use them to stabilize trouble spots in the world.
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Dec 6, 2017 05:21
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So, overall, what are the odds Bibi gets removed from office right now?
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Dec 6, 2017 05:34
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Nucleic Acids posted:So, overall, what are the odds Bibi gets removed from office right now? 21.567%
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Dec 6, 2017 08:46
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Like, I know that trump recognizing west Jerusalem as the capitol of Israel is an unnecessary provocation but given that the seat of Israeli government is already in west Jerusalem and this is kind of a 'fact of life' you'd think it would be a great opportunity for Palestinians to go 'Meh, nice try, can we just go back to talking about basic human rights?'. But yeah, sure.
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Dec 6, 2017 08:47
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bibi thinks he can outrun the almighty but the sun is burning hotter on his kingdom with every passing day, and there is a desert waiting for him drier than anything he's ever seen
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Dec 6, 2017 10:26
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lady liberty carries the plague of the conquerors. anybody brushed by her cold fingertips (hard, bloodless, corroded by brine) is instantly and incurably infected. the whole of israel is filthy from her touch. only two things can erase the stain: fire, or the sea
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Dec 6, 2017 10:31
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i predict that his skin will mummify to leather and the ants will eat him hollow from within
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Dec 6, 2017 10:33
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i too enjoy my ketamine prior to posting
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Dec 6, 2017 11:10
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so that means I can be a cheapskate and post about posting instead of having some wit or spending any more on comedy avs for people. Which I'm also incapable of. Comedy.
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repent! (repent) repent! (repent) repent! (REPEEEEEEEENT)
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Dec 6, 2017 11:48
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Pantsbird posted:Yes. The significant threshold is when it's too hard to find the enemy and their threat level is not worth the effort of hunting them down (or further wrath would dishonor the victor as appearing insecure, or provoke spite reactions from the defeated). Of course there was no way for the fragmented Arab powers to resist the thrust of European Jews with their European money and European sponsors. The question is when Israel will finally be safe and 'official'. The answer is 1967. Here's my peace plan for Israel: 1. Abandon any and all colonies on occupied territories. All of them. No exception. The settlers will be repatriated to Israel proper, bolstering the local majority demographics so that they can stop feeling insecure about the itty bitty little Druze and Arab minorities that are Israeli citizens. 2. Stop the occupation of Palestine, let it become a fully independent and sovereign country. Being granted peace and self-determination at last will put a definitive end to the simmering conflict.
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Dec 6, 2017 14:54
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I never knew 20% of the population was an itty bitty tiny minority.
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Dec 6, 2017 18:33
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Cat Mattress posted:The answer is 1967. And what about the Palestinian citizens of Israel? Will they continue to be second-class citizens confined to 7 percent of the land whose children are sent to segregated, underfunded schools and face state-sponsored discrimination in practically every aspect of life, from employment to family law? Or the refugees- how exactly do you expect a long-term peaceful resolution to the conflict when 5 million + refugees receive no justice for their ethnic cleansing and are dumped in the West Bank and Gaza, areas with no major industries, high unemployment, less than 1/3 of the original land of Mandate Palestine and a devastated infrastructure(especially in the case of Gaza)? It seems like under your plan, Israel will remain an apartheid state and the newly-formed state of Palestine will somehow be expected to undo the economic and structural effects of 50+ years of occupation and bombardment all while welcoming millions of impoverished refugees who need jobs and homes.
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Dec 6, 2017 19:10
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https://twitter.com/samdagher/status/938487480852123648 There's also demonstrations in Istanbul but no reports of violence anywhere.
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Dec 6, 2017 20:21
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One must admire Trump's desire and ability to stir poo poo while actually doing nothing, the Jerusalem Embassy Act from 1995 already recognizes Jerusalem as the capitol of Israel and states that the American embassy will be moved (something all presidents have been 'postponing' ever since).
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Dec 6, 2017 20:55
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I doubt Trump has any understanding of why it's controversial.
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Dec 6, 2017 21:45
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Trump and his people probably very much like the idea of having an excuse to commence carpet bombing of the rest of the Middle East. Remember this is the administration that thinks the state department is no longer necessary anyway.
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Dec 6, 2017 22:25
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gently caress Trump gently caress Bibi Fuuuuuuck
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Dec 6, 2017 22:27
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