|
Geriatric Pirate posted:Me: *posts about how left-wingers are more concerned about thoughtcrime and hate speech than violent crime* Geriatric Pirate posted:Of course I'm less outraged about the far-right beating up protestors on the far-left, these guys go and pick fights with each other all the time. These guys are the ones who support violent ideologies, they go out and fight and that's all fine, they know what they're getting into and it's pretty obvious both sides WANT to fight. 
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 00:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 16:28 |
|
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 00:16
|
|
|
Let me explain for you in a way you might understand: You know how in your high school, every now and then there is a fight between two kids who've basically agreed to fight beforehand? Well, this is similar. Every now and then you have a group of antifa who convince themselves that they are actually able to physically fight the neo-Nazis instead of just throwing stuff at them from behind a wall of police, and the neo-Nazis are of course perfectly happy to fight them, so the two groups have a fight and usually some people get hurt. This is less bad than when a group of people who don't want to have a fight are attacked by a group of people who want to throw stuff at them from behind a wall of police.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 00:19
|
|
|
ja siten anarkomarko ei vieläkään tajua miksi tavikset eivät pidä ihmisistä jotka käyttäytyvät kuin peppukipeä jalkapallojoukkueen kannattajakunta
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 00:20
|
|
|
I'm not advocating banning wrongthink. I am saying that white nationalism is a poisonous ideology. Political opposition to an inherently violent ideology is important. It's so important that we can't allow right wingers acting in bad faith to try to paint all protestors as crazed window smashers, while also trying to paint white nationalists as simply "peaceful marchers." Even if a handful of anarchists smashed every window in the country, it would still be bad faith to use it to try and make white nationalists seem comparably sane and peaceful. To be very clear, condemning the destruction of property is fine, but it's pretty suspicious if you're also being a Nazi apologist every time you do it. Good - "A handful of anarchists, who don't represent all leftists, are very naughty for destroying the property of innocent people." Less good - "A handful of anarchists, who represent all leftists, are very naughty for destroying the property of innocent people." Nazi apologia - "A handful of anarchists, who represent all leftists, are very naughty for destroying the property of innocent people. Also, white nationalists sometimes march peacefully and they're very nice to me."
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 00:36
|
|
|
Where did I say antifa/anarchists represent all leftists? They're definitely a subset of leftists (which leads to "anarchists" who oppose government cuts) and some prominent leftists (Arhinmäki) have been associated with anarchists, but clearly I do not believe all leftists are anarchists. It does seem a bit odd how many leftists on this thread seem happy to dismiss violence as long as it's been done by the right people. Once again, the same people who freak out about "hate speech" on Twitter or are still going on about the neo-Nazi who disrupted a Li Andersson + Dan Koivulaakso book event-thingy 10 years ago. Second, yes, neo Nazis sometimes march peacefully, they also sometimes go shopping peacefully, send their kids to school peacefully and are occasionally polite. Those are the times that you don't have any right to attack them physically. They are also entitled to have their opinions. I am not defending far-right views by saying that they should be legal. I think far-right views and far-left views are both crazy, but I have nothing against them being presented peacefully. I don't care if there are neo Nazis marching from Töölö to Hietaniemi and I don't care if there are communists hosting a peaceful alternative Independence party in Hakaniemi (here's a fun fact for you since you're new to Finland: the left-wing parties in Finnish parliament voted against the declaration of independence, so it's always been seen as a bit of a right-wing thing). That's freedom of expression, freedom of thought, all that stuff. I don't see why it's so difficult for you to see the distinction between this and actual violence. I'm telling you this as an actual political centrist who supports more migration: Attacking a rally/march (especially a peaceful rally that has no stated political goals and where all political symbols and signs are banned) makes you look like the extremist, not the guys marching. Attacking random businesses for kicks (or to fight inequality, or whatever it is) makes you an extremist moron in the eyes of 99% of the population. There is a very real difference between having an extremist opinion and going out and attacking people/things because of your opinions.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 01:00
|
|
|
Right, but why fret so much over the actions of these individuals so much? You keep comparing a handful of window smashers to the entirety of all white nationalists, which is strange. It kinda seems like you're trying to laser focus on a few people's actions at specific events, and then comparing them to the entirety of a white nationalists on aggregate to make them seem comparably sane. You also seem to be concerned about how these people will affect the image of all leftists, while acting as if you see them as separate entities, and without ever doing the same for violent extremists on the right. And regardless of the law, it's debatable whether smashing a window is worse than expressing views in favour of white nationalism. White nationalism terrorises minorities with the threat of violence, so it isn't as simple as just calling it an innocent belief. It doesn't require individual action for it to have an effect.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 01:40
|
|
|
Krabboss posted:You keep comparing a handful of window smashers to the entirety of all white nationalists, which is strange. It's because there's only a handful of each in Finland. It's always the same people marching somewhere in pilottitakkis and clean shaven heads, and it's always the same people vandalizing property to stick it to the man.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 04:45
|
|
|
Last years counterdemonstrations were all non-violent and without property damage.. Unless you count Laku beating up a Swedish nazi while being in police custody. Who cares about property damage anyway. That's why insurance companies exist.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 07:47
|
|
|
In other news: the cops might have been wrong in removing the children's event from Töölöntori. Koikkalainen lays it out here in terms that even a layman should understand. But apparently cops don't. https://twitter.com/M_Koikkalainen/status/937950790341230593
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 07:48
|
|
|
Classic blunder, not actually checking the hallituksen esitys for clarifying details. And you'd imagine the Helsinki police have the most experience applying said law!
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 08:09
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 08:24
|
|
|
SulphagneSocialist posted:Classic blunder, not actually checking the hallituksen esitys for clarifying details. And you'd imagine the Helsinki police have the most experience applying said law! They did remember it when it was time to shut down the refugees demonstrating in downtown Helsinki.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 08:26
|
|
|
Anyway happy Suomi 100
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 08:29
|
|
|
This guy gets it
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 08:29
|
|
|
Nazis and communists, both equally extreme ideologies. Genocide and collective ownership are equally radical concepts Also nothing wrong with advocating peaceful ethnical cleansing Welcome to the 1920s, nothing could go wrong with this line of spineless centrist thinking
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 08:56
|
|
|
I may disapprove of what the local ISIS chapter says, but to my eventual decapitation I will fight for their right to peacefully march for genocide
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 08:56
|
|
|
This discussion shows how weak ideas like freedom of speech and democracy really are. The tiniest bit of social upheaval and walla.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 09:16
|
|
|
Happy Birthday rebel scum. Once we find a cure for a bullet to the head. Charles the 12th will rise again and collect the lot of you in service to the reborn northern empire. Because this exists and you deserve to play with it today.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 09:30
|
|
|
Kemper Boyd posted:They did remember it when it was time to shut down the refugees demonstrating in downtown Helsinki. We can pretend my post was sarcastic, in that case.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 09:35
|
|
|
Katt posted:Charles the 12th will rise again and collect the lot of you in service to the reborn northern empire. I believe this is the Nordic Resistance Movement's master plan, actually
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 09:58
|
|
|
Kemper Boyd posted:Last years counterdemonstrations were all non-violent and without property damage.. Unless you count Laku beating up a Swedish nazi while being in police custody. Who cares about an anarchist getting beat up anyway? That's why hospitals exist. Trogdos! posted:Nazis and communists, both equally extreme ideologies. lol@using a statement 99% of people would consider common sense for this Krabboss posted:Right, but why fret so much over the actions of these individuals so much? You keep comparing a handful of window smashers to the entirety of all white nationalists, which is strange. It kinda seems like you're trying to laser focus on a few people's actions at specific events, and then comparing them to the entirety of a white nationalists on aggregate to make them seem comparably sane. You also seem to be concerned about how these people will affect the image of all leftists, while acting as if you see them as separate entities, and without ever doing the same for violent extremists on the right. Darkest Auer is right. Both the far-right and the violent left are tiny groups in Finland. They're not really a big deal (in the grand scheme of things) or gaining traction in any way, it's just that on Independence Day they both go out and do retarded things and it's Independence Day now so it's worth posting about. And I think in the eyes of the population, the guys who attack innocent people are worse than the guys who carry around signs with the wrong messages, but it is funny watching a lot of the far-left posters here come out and defend them. You accuse me of talking mixing up this small group with all leftists while doing the exact same thing for right-wingers, for instance by calling the 612 march a "Nazi march." There are Nazis marching, but it is an explicitly apolitical march that's probably mainly dominated by anti-immigrant conservatives. As for the debatable part... well, let's just agree to disagree. I don't want to have a philosophical argument about the merits of free speech.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 11:38
|
|
|
You don't have to be involved in a march to be a white nationalist. Also, really, if the march was apolitical they wouldn't be doing it. If a group of people decide to congregate and they all are conservative and anti-immigration, then the march is political and they're making a statement. You're probably making your non-white friends uncomfortable when you eagerly swallow the claim that the march is apolitical. Congrats on 100 years of independence.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 12:33
|
|
|
an apolitical march...lol
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 12:34
|
|
|
Absolutely nothing is "apolitical".
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 12:35
|
|
|
doverhog posted:Absolutely nothing is "apolitical". Today I bought pakastepizza from Germany but also finnish potatoes and meat to make lihaskastike later. Does that mean I'm for both globalization AND protectionism? Also, which one makes me a nazi?
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 12:43
|
|
|
throw to first drat IT posted:Today I bought pakastepizza from Germany but also finnish potatoes and meat to make lihaskastike later. Does that mean I'm for both globalization AND protectionism? Also, which one makes me a nazi? I think making "lihaskastike" makes you a member of pode-klupi
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 13:00
|
|
|
https://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/art-2000005478762.htmlquote:Viking Line jätti Suomeen itsenäisyyspäivän marssille pyrkineen natsijärjestön joukkion rannalle Tukholmassa lol
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 13:46
|
|
|
It's time we shut up about Nazis for one day and celebrate the fact we still have independence of this silly little country somewhere in the arm pit of a Russian bear. Happy 100th anniversary fellow Mongols! 
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 14:03
|
|
|
Happy holidays for everyone, as I sit here doing reaction engineering assignment. Here's to another 100 years of independence in the frozen rear end in a top hat of the world.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 14:10
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMMacfUdzVQ
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 15:42
|
|
|
Nyt niitä natsi- ja hippimarsseja: https://areena.yle.fi/1-4302258 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AThl4MPVk7M Zat fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Dec 6, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 15:47
|
|
|
Zat posted:Nyt niitä natsi- ja hippimarsseja: *opens video* "Et saa edes kyseenalaista 'niin sanottua' holokaustia." Ok 
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 16:15
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 17:08
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 17:26
|
|
|
I discussed today's celebrations with a large number of Finish friends and co-workers and an alarmingly large amount of them seems to think that Finish independence came from defeating the Soviet Union in the winter war. As opposed to mailing in an application for independence and Lenin going "yeah whatever have fun"
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 18:35
|
|
|
Katt posted:I discussed today's celebrations with a large number of Finish friends and co-workers and an alarmingly large amount of them seems to think that Finish independence came from defeating the Soviet Union in the winter war. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 19:15
|
|
|
That's just how they re-fill them.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 20:47
|
|
|
Happy hundred day!
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 21:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 16:28 |
|
|
Earth was created millions of years ago? Then how come Finland is only 100 years old! Checkmate, athestits.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2017 22:07
|
|