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admanb posted:The playbooks in The Veil are, again, widely varied, but in a way that's much less clear. A Reporter in The Sprawl works completely differently from a Killer or Soldier, but it's still obvious looking at it how the Reporter is going to interact with the classic cyberpunk mission structure of a corporation hiring the PCs to run a job against another corporation. It's much less clear how the Wayward, which is a playbook in The Veil that's tied to an element of nature, will interact with anything. Now, I can look through The Veil's playbooks and get inspiration for dozens of weird characters, but I can't picture what they'll do in the game. By the by, is there any reason not to port the clarification of combat-related moves from AW2e directly into The Sprawl and other PbtA games where that would make sense?
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Dec 7, 2017 01:16
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Halloween Jack posted:By the by, is there any reason not to port the clarification of combat-related moves from AW2e directly into The Sprawl and other PbtA games where that would make sense? Because the old peripheral battle moves (and the battle clock) were jettisoned, their "automatic harm per tick" mechanism went with them. My take-away from this change was that this was encouragement to me to be more aggressive with the moves I'm making as MC when the PCs are "in battle." If you're not taking a base of 3-harm every tick after 9:00 on the (now removed) battle clock, I'm way more likely to put you in a spot or inflict harm as established whenever it's my turn to talk. Fighting is dangerous and unpredictable. This isn't articulated very clearly in the AW2E rules, but that thread was a really interesting discussion.
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Dec 7, 2017 02:06
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I forgot to add: I presume the Operator was dropped because its core conceit is something everyone should be doing anyway?
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Dec 7, 2017 02:12
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Halloween Jack posted:I forgot to add: I presume the Operator was dropped because its core conceit is something everyone should be doing anyway? Yup.
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Dec 7, 2017 03:41
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Halloween Jack posted:I forgot to add: I presume the Operator was dropped because its core conceit is something everyone should be doing anyway? Also their main mechanical thing got given to literally everyone so they lost a good chunk of their identity and what they had left got given to the Driver. I miss having a playbook that's specifically about having a dozen plates spinning at all times, but I honestly can't say the changes didn't help.
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Dec 7, 2017 03:42
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I still feel like the Operator could have been reworked to focus more on the crew as opposed to the jobs. There's not really a good playbook for running, say, a small salvage crew in AW.
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Dec 7, 2017 19:51
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Comrade Gorbash posted:I still feel like the Operator could have been reworked to focus more on the crew as opposed to the jobs. There's not really a good playbook for running, say, a small salvage crew in AW.
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Dec 7, 2017 20:04
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I feel like the playbook moves could be fairly simple if the crew was built up.
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Dec 7, 2017 20:10
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Comrade Gorbash posted:I feel like the playbook moves could be fairly simple if the crew was built up. One part hocus one part chopper, sitting in between and only slightly overlapping. E: or look at the old Driver for ideas. But with a gang or gangs instead of a car.
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Dec 7, 2017 20:30
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Yeah, I was thinking of moves that would specifically let you leverage your gang to do poo poo, like, "I have people for that."
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Dec 7, 2017 21:05
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You could also have like, contacts instead of a gang that follows your orders. Like, you're not in charge of them, but if you need some poo poo repaired or stolen or set on fire, you totally know this guy Rolfball who owes you a favor and man, that guy's up for anything.
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Dec 9, 2017 05:33
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In Legacy, how large is the area for the Peacekeepers' Settled option? When it says "Your Family is known as the local law and your judgements will be respected" does it just mean one town, rather than a region? I assume it's smaller than the entire Homeland, but I'm not sure if it would extend to the areas of anyone else who'd picked the settled option.
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Dec 13, 2017 21:43
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In our game, the PeaceKeepers enforced law in the wasteland. Specifically, they guaranteed the safety of travelers and punished those who transgressed. Well, at least they did until the head PeaceKeeper decided to pick a fight with Mesa-town over who had the biggest dick, then went all Master-Blaster "embargo ON!" It kind of undercut their moral authority.
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Dec 13, 2017 22:52
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Doc Aquatic posted:In Legacy, how large is the area for the Peacekeepers' Settled option? When it says "Your Family is known as the local law and your judgements will be respected" does it just mean one town, rather than a region? I assume it's smaller than the entire Homeland, but I'm not sure if it would extend to the areas of anyone else who'd picked the settled option. It's the area your family has jurisdiction over - by default, the settlement they're settled in, plus whatever outlying areas are closer to that settlement than any other. How wide the effect is for settled moves would be a pretty good general clarification to chuck in, I'll put it in the manuscript.
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Dec 13, 2017 22:53
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Flavivirus, are you still taking feedback prior to releasing V2?
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Dec 14, 2017 02:50
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Ilor posted:Flavivirus, are you still taking feedback prior to releasing V2? Sure! The text is almost done with editing and into layout, but there's still a little time for things to be tweaked.
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Dec 14, 2017 08:34
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Flavivirus posted:Sure! The text is almost done with editing and into layout, but there's still a little time for things to be tweaked. If you're taking feedback, Inhuman Elegance is still weird like it was last time I mentioned (specifically, you spend hold on them, rather than them taking valid actions to spend your hold, making it more of a mind control than a charm move).
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Dec 14, 2017 08:48
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It might be too late, but one thing that stood out for me is that the stat questions for the Uplifted Children of Mankind were more about them and now they adapted than about the setting/the fall. It might be intentional, since they break the format by also not having nomadic/dispersed/settled options, but all the setting info my group got out of that question was 'these psychic farm animals had to adapt to whatever things were like'.
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Dec 14, 2017 11:09
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Doc Aquatic posted:It might be too late, but one thing that stood out for me is that the stat questions for the Uplifted Children of Mankind were more about them and now they adapted than about the setting/the fall. The intent for that was that you were still saying something about the habitats that remained - whether your natural habitat still remains, if it was lost but related biomes are still around, or if a completely new ecosystem has supplanted it. Similar to the Cultivator options, in a way - we can certainly try to make that clearer. spectralent posted:If you're taking feedback, Inhuman Elegance is still weird like it was last time I mentioned (specifically, you spend hold on them, rather than them taking valid actions to spend your hold, making it more of a mind control than a charm move). Argh, sorry, forgot that one. It is intended to be closer to mind control than charm, but I can see how there needs to be a way for the charmed player to get in on the fun of being mind-controlled. Here's how it currently reads: When you spend time alone with someone, they become fixated on you. Roll +Sway. On a 10+ hold 3, on a 7-9 hold 2. You can spend 1 hold at any time to have them:
We could replace that last line with 'If they're a player character, they can choose to do one of the actions and remove 1 of your hold'? That or completely rip off the Skinner's Hypnotic.
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Dec 14, 2017 14:44
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Hypnotic is a great move, so it's hard to go wrong with stealing it.
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Dec 14, 2017 15:39
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I've been readino the new Legacy and while it's a great product I often find myself confused by it. Where am I supposed to find how much Tech and Data the families get? The Synthetic Hive implies that they start with 5 tech, but what about the others?
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Dec 20, 2017 15:42
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paradoxGentleman posted:I've been readino the new Legacy and while it's a great product I often find myself confused by it. New version of the text is dropping some time this evening, after being picked through by an editor for exactly this kind of thing. For your particular query: Data and Tech start by default at 0 and you gain them in play. If anything else is confusing you, don't hesitate to let me know!
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Dec 20, 2017 17:51
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Flavivirus posted:New version of the text is dropping some time this evening, after being picked through by an editor for exactly this kind of thing. For your particular query: Data and Tech start by default at 0 and you gain them in play. And the update is now up - (semi) final game text, new art, progress on the other settings and more!
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Dec 21, 2017 07:48
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I see! So that part was wrong? The Gear chapter also mentions Intel in the intro, but I can't actually find information about it anywhere. Has it been substituted by Data?
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Dec 21, 2017 11:29
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paradoxGentleman posted:I see! So that part was wrong?
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Dec 21, 2017 12:01
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Is there a changelog? We literally just finished setting up for a legacy game with the last update,so one would be really helpful.
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Dec 21, 2017 18:34
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Neopie posted:Is there a changelog? We literally just finished setting up for a legacy game with the last update,so one would be really helpful. Fair point - I didn't want to put one in the text because it won't be in the book, but that doesn't mean it's not useful for players. So:
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Dec 21, 2017 19:40
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Cool. These changes are all only in the new plaintext, correct?
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Dec 22, 2017 02:38
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I fear I have made a terrible mistake. I agreed to do a PbtA game based on a series of MilSF novels featuring an elite Executive Protection company. You get to be low-drag tacticool operators swimming in the intrigue-ridden world of the 0.1%. I think I can successfully keep it from being Escort Missions: The Game with some offensive mission types and maybe a safari or two. I'm stuck spending the holidays writing out mission structure moves and 3 more playbook. I am so hosed.
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Dec 22, 2017 04:37
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There's WORLD OF SECRETS or DAYLIGHT ROBBERY already?
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Dec 22, 2017 04:43
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Neopie posted:Cool. These changes are all only in the new plaintext, correct? Yup, exactly. I might give it at least a rudimentary layout so it's more useful - and update the playbooks, now I think about it.
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Dec 22, 2017 07:40
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Golden Bee posted:There's WORLD OF SECRETS or DAYLIGHT ROBBERY already? Daylight Robbery (wot I wrote) is creative commons too, so feel free to rip it apart and make use of what you can of it.
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Dec 22, 2017 15:04
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Nifara posted:Daylight Robbery (wot I wrote) is creative commons too, so feel free to rip it apart and make use of what you can of it. This sounds cool, link?
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Dec 23, 2017 08:29
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Hey guys, I know that this is well-trod ground, but could someone summarize the general criticisms of Dungeon World? I was thinking about what D&D "style" system to use for a "dungeoncrawl as sport" setting I've been playing with. The problems I immediately noticed are that because I'm doing a satirical take on the standard D&D races, and a more functional take on alignment, I have to rewrite all the playbooks anyway.
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Dec 24, 2017 03:29
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My take would be: The playbooks generally under utilize the advantages of PbtA - their moves don't have enough narrative leverage and too many of them are fiddly mechanical bits. The caster playbooks are way too rigidly defined and basically not PbtA playbooks at all. Too many statistical bits between HP, ability score, ability modifier, etc. It's not too overboard but it should be scaled back a bit. Ironically the obvious D&D sacred cow they dropped - class and race as separate things - actually makes the game clumsier for a lot of character concepts. Defy Danger is a very bad PbtA move. Basic moves in general are a little clumsy with following the fiction and keep putting narrative direction back in the hands of the GM when it should stay with the player. Basic moves also don't do enough to account for the party working together pretty much all the time; there's a bit too much Apocalypse World in how they're framed. I'm personally ambivalent about XP on a miss but it's probably fine in DW. There's a lot of games that copied the idea without consideration where it doesn't belong is the bigger issue. EDIT: The game also doesn't really do anything to leverage the idea of the party as a thing in itself, which to be fair is true of D&D in general but feels like a bigger missed opportunity in DW. Comrade Gorbash fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Dec 24, 2017 |
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Dec 24, 2017 03:47
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Just my opinion, but I think the big weakness of DW is that it uses PbtA mechanics without really grasping what makes them good. The primary symptom of this is that it clings to a bunch of D&D baggage that really weakens it and ruins the cleanliness and minimalism that PbtA is known for. Just as an example, every other PbtA game I can name uses the AW harm track with minimal changes; DW instead has big HP pools and rolled damage. Hell, DW even has Vancian casting. The whole concept of the 5-minute adventuring day barely even makes sense in PbtA-land, but here's a game where three of your party members are built vaguely like AW playbooks and then there's the loving Wizard who still needs 8 hours of rest to prepare his spells every day. But as I said, those are just symptoms of the core problem, which is that AW is a game that recasts the way the game is played: there's no tactical turn-taking, NPCs are explicitly not running on the same rules as PCs, the "party" isn't really a party exactly, and rolls are generally more abstract and narratively impactful than, like, "do I lift this big rock" or whatever. It's a storygame, basically. That's an important part of what makes PbtA PbtA, but, at the risk of sounding reductionist, DW just sort of ignored it in favor of copying D&D's playstyle and replacing all the d20s with 2d6s. e: f;b. That's a good list. I would kill for a better "D&D but in PbtA" game. megane fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Dec 24, 2017 |
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Dec 24, 2017 03:57
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megane posted:I would kill for a better "D&D but in PbtA" game.
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Dec 24, 2017 04:11
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All of the above is true but I'll stand up for DW as being a great, if flawed, gateway to bring folks entrenched in Dungeons & Dragons into the world of narrative games.
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Dec 24, 2017 04:30
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Among my group, we've come up with the following tagline to explain DW; it's the methadone you need to cure your D&D addiction. It's better than D&D but it's still not great.
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Dec 24, 2017 04:41
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Whats the best system, then?
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Dec 24, 2017 04:53
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