/r/relationships: Memento Mori Lasagna

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > /r/relationships: Memento Mori Lasagna

tactlessbastard: Feb 4, 2001; Godspeed, post; Fun Shoe

quote:

My sister always thought he would leave his girlfriend for her and was shocked when it didn't happen. She had the baby and he is 4 now. Except for the first few months after the birth, they have shared custody 50/50 because he took her to court to get more time when she asked for him to only have every other weekend. Since their custody is equal and 50/50 she doesn't get any child support from him.

That would be a first ballot hall of fame self own, there

# ? Dec 11, 2017 13:21

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# ? Jun 12, 2024 21:05

Breetai: Nov 6, 2005; 🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌

A play in 3 parts:

quote:

Girlfriend's baby is retarded, is it ok to leave?

submitted 5 years ago * by whatupdocyo

I am 22, my girlfriend is 19. I've been with my girlfriend for about 2 years, and she has always been insistent that we have children. She has always been on birth control, but she went off without telling me, and she got pregnant. I wasn't sure whether or not I wanted to stay with her, but we just found out that the baby will have severe mental retardation. I never wanted to have a child to begin with, now I'm really wanting to leave this relationship. tldr; my girlfriend went off birth control without telling me, now our baby is retarded. Am I douche for wanting to leave? UPDATE: I'm leaving her. See this thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/relationships/comments/ybep8/update_i_am_leaving_my_girlfriend_with_her/

quote:

UPDATE - I am leaving my girlfriend with her retarded baby

submitted 5 years ago * by whatupdocyo

First thread was here: http://www.reddit.com/r/relationships/comments/y7eqx/girlfriends_baby_is_retarded_is_it_ok_to_leave/

Long story short, my girlfriend is 19 and I am 22. We've been together for two years. My girlfriend went off of birth control without informing me, and now she is pregnant. We found out that the baby will have a mental handicap, and I was debating whether or not it would be appropriate to leave.

Thanks everybody for your responses. Considering we are Mormons (Although not very strict, we did get into this situation), we strongly do not believe in abortion. Thus, when I brought up abortion to her she was strongly against it. We discussed different options such as giving the baby up for adoption, but it became clear that my girlfriend would have it no other way than for her to keep the child and raise it. While I looked forward to having a child with her possibly in the DISTANT future, dealing with a child (and a retarded one at that) at this point in my life is NOT something I want to do. I have a job that pays fairly well (Although that means little in today's economy), but I decided to leave her. She cried and pleaded for me to stay, and that we would "somehow work it out," but I told her I couldn't be with someone that feels OK to trick and lie to me. Maybe if she wasn't being deceptive I would have gone through with it; but now my life has taken a very different turn than it was looking just a few days ago.

Thanks everybody for your input, I'm glad I posted something here.

tldr; can't deal with my girlfriend's deception, I'm leaving her for tricking me into getting her pregnant. Thanks for the help, I've got a long road ahead.

EDIT: Many seem to think I'm playing some kind of joke. I'm not, I'm just updating you as to what's going on.

quote:

How does child support work? Is there any way to lessen it if the child is mentally handicapped? (self.MensRights)

submitted 5 years ago by whatupdocyo

I broke up with my girlfriend after she got pregnant by me. Long story short, my gf decided against an abortion and is going to give birth to a mentally handicapped child (At least the likelihood is very high, the doctor told us). How does this factor into child support?

Sorry, I'm really new to this and really bummed out.

# ? Dec 11, 2017 13:54

Brother Entropy: Dec 27, 2009

3 posts and he only says 'our baby' once in a tl;dr

like yeah, there's more obvious things to point out as to why this guy loving sucks but poo poo dude it's not 'the baby' or 'her retarded baby'. it's yours, it's also your retarded baby that you're abandoning

# ? Dec 11, 2017 14:02

Theophany: Jul 22, 2014; SUCCHIAMI IL MIO CAZZO DA DIETRO, RANA RAGAZZO

2022 FIA Formula 1 WDC

Breetai posted:

A play in 3 parts:

# ? Dec 11, 2017 14:05

tactlessbastard: Feb 4, 2001; Godspeed, post; Fun Shoe

Yet another shithead too religious for an abortion but not too religious for premarital sex smh

# ? Dec 11, 2017 14:06

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Barudak posted:

It should look like a goldmine of money because Texas is a one party recording state

Even in most two party consent states, it's generally not illegal to record if it's not 'secret'. It's also not illegal to share it between two private parties, generally. The recording is usually inadmissable in court in two party consent states.

There are exceptions, it depends on where you live, and all that. Trying to file a civil suit in a 2 party state for the damages from a recording that "disproves my false rape accusation" would probably not work out well. And TX is one party anyway.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Dec 11, 2017

# ? Dec 11, 2017 14:12

Alien Sex Manual: Dec 14, 2010; is not a sandwich

tactlessbastard posted:

Yet another shithead too religious for an abortion but not too religious for premarital sex smh

Exactly my thoughts. You're already going to the lamest afterlife, might as well not make the poor retarded baby suffer for your bad decisions.

# ? Dec 11, 2017 15:34

Vargatron: Apr 19, 2008; MRAZZLE DAZZLE

Labes for days posted:

Exactly my thoughts. You're already going to the lamest afterlife, might as well not make the poor retarded baby suffer for your bad decisions.

The baby is either a Gift from God or a Punishment for your Sins, depending on how you look at it.

# ? Dec 11, 2017 15:36

Pick: Jul 19, 2009; Nap Ghost

Inescapable Duck posted:

Is cheating really that common or is it the same people who just can't stop doing it?

It totally depends on the group of people. In my life it mostly seems certain groups of people are rife with cheaters, and certain groups of people never cheat. Not as like demographics, just clumps of people. I think people tend to reflect these small, group morals more than people think.

If you want to be the best you, hang out with your most upstanding friends, and that'll become your frame of reference for yourself.

# ? Dec 11, 2017 15:57

La Brea Carpet: Nov 22, 2007; I have no mouth and I must post

Ask a manager had some good holiday party stories:

quote:

� �A woman who had worked at our office for more than twenty years pouted and threw tantrums like a child if she didn�t win a door prize at the annual Christmas dinner. Every time someone else�s name was randomly drawn, she would yell, �FIX!�� or �CHEAT!� or something similar. And one year, she just snatched a prize she really wanted from the table and told the person who won the prize, �I DESERVE this,� and walked away with it.�

� �The CEO threw an evening holiday party at his house. The A/P director drank too much and threw up shrimp cocktail on the white shag carpet. The plant manager got into a screaming fight with his wife in the driveway. The chemist was found making out with the loading dock supervisor, who was about 30 years her senior and more importantly not her husband. And I accidentally walked in on the sales director peeing in the unlocked hallway bathroom (which I thought was the coat closet; we were both surprised). The president himself got completely hammered and went around telling people totally inappropriate stories, gave me a giant bear hug that lasted a little too long, and broke the sliding door to his patio.�

� �A young coworker overindulged in alcohol and somehow managed to miss that the company was offering a car service to help folks get home safely. He proceeded to wander drunkenly through the city trying to make it home, but ended up running into some bad sorts trying to accost him. In trying to escape, he got completely banged up � cuts, bruises, blood, and filthy, torn clothing. At this point, he was so disoriented that he wasn�t not sure how to get home, so he decided to lay down in back of pickup truck parked on the street (this was December, so it was probably 40 degrees outside). An hour or two later, the truck owner spotted him and chased him off. He forgot his bag, which had his MetroCard, so he decided to go back to work and sleep it off under his desk. Meanwhile, the truck owner sees the nice bag left behind and thinks it was stolen, so he calls the cops, who then go to the address�where the young coworker lives with a now panic-stricken mother. The panic doesn�t abate when no one at work has seen him for hours�until he stumbles out from his desk around 11 a.m.�

� �Our Christmas party planning (once again) ended in tears over an argument about whether body-part-shaped gummy candy was an appropriate table decoration.

For reasons which I dare not know, there is a small contingent of people in my department who all have strong personalities, strong opinions, and no chill. Everyone hates each other, but they all must be on the various party planning committees. Our fall potluck was simultaneously �sports jersey,� �Halloween,� and �Richard Nixon�-themed because I accidentally ended up in charge and did not have the energy to veto anything.�

# ? Dec 11, 2017 16:14

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

Drunk homing pigeons always make for some fun or occasionally tragic stories.

# ? Dec 11, 2017 16:26

tactlessbastard: Feb 4, 2001; Godspeed, post; Fun Shoe

La Brea Carpet posted:

Ask a manager had some good holiday party stories:

The last place i worked had a cadre of young to middle aged professionals who liked to go out together to local bars to play pool or do trivia events. That had ended by the time I got there because one of them, coincidentally the HR lady, got them banned from every place in the area because she'd get wasted and start flirting and then her husband would show up and start punching.

# ? Dec 11, 2017 16:30

Vargatron: Apr 19, 2008; MRAZZLE DAZZLE

This is why my old company enforced a strict 3 beer maximum...

...which I would circumvent by having people get me beer.

Thankfully I had the presence of mind to just dip out when I started getting too lovely.

Edit: somebody should totally make a Christmas Party story thread.

Vargatron fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Dec 11, 2017

# ? Dec 11, 2017 16:34

chitoryu12: Apr 24, 2014

We had a combined Christmas/Boss's Birthday party on Saturday where everyone was given a single drink ticket good for any drink from the bar (cocktail, wine, or beer). The bar did really lovely and weak cocktails so if you wanted to get drunk you would order wine.

The secret is that the waitresses only cared if you had a drink ticket, not that everyone only got one. You could get new tickets from non-drinkers giving them away, and I found one discarded on the ground so I ended up with 3 tickets by the end of the night.

# ? Dec 11, 2017 16:51

Pick: Jul 19, 2009; Nap Ghost

Hello I�m Halloween sports Nixon. Which actually kind of works, because he was a football are, but is everybody dressed as football Richard Nixon?

# ? Dec 11, 2017 16:52

Shugojin: Sep 6, 2007; THE TAIL THAT BURNS TWICE AS BRIGHT...

Breetai posted:

A play in 3 parts:

This is beautiful

# ? Dec 11, 2017 16:54

feedmegin: Jul 30, 2008

Brother Entropy posted:

3 posts and he only says 'our baby' once in a tl;dr

like yeah, there's more obvious things to point out as to why this guy loving sucks but poo poo dude it's not 'the baby' or 'her retarded baby'. it's yours, it's also your retarded baby that you're abandoning

That thread is 5 years old. Wonder how it turned out now the kid's just getting into preschool.

Maybe dad changed his mind :unsmith:

# ? Dec 11, 2017 16:56

Barudak: May 7, 2007

feedmegin posted:

That thread is 5 years old. Wonder how it turned out now the kid's just getting into preschool.

Maybe dad changed his mind

Well its not like the kid knows.

# ? Dec 11, 2017 17:02

almightyerin: Apr 16, 2007; The one the only. Accept no substitutes.

Did anyone post about shower girl? I can't remember. Anyway here's an update....

First post:
My [28M] girlfriend [30F] got extremely upset because I didn't want to take a shower with her. I think she might be depressed again, but I don't know how to bring it up.

quote:

Good day, Reddit.
My girlfriend and I have not been speaking to each other for 3 days now due to an argument. I am not sure if I was the one that did something wrong or if it is an underlying issue manifesting into anger at something (that I think) is quite dumb.
In the beginning of our relationship, my gf and I would occasionally shower together. It was fun, we'd take turn soaping each other's backs, playing with the water, etc. Over time, this turned into us taking a shower together every single day. Yes, it was fun when we did it on occasion but in my opinion every day is just too much. We like to take showers with completely different water temperatures, our shower isn't really that big, she takes forever to rinse out her hair while I stand in the cold...
If I don't get in the shower quickly enough, my gf starts crying because she misses me. So, I drop what I was doing and hop in the shower to comfort her. Another time I was playing the piano and couldn't hear her calling for me from the shower, and she got mad. About a year ago, while in the shower together, my gf asked me "Do you like taking a shower together all the time?". Before I could answer, she says "If you say no, I'm going to be really sad. You're not allowed to say no". Well wtf why bother asking me if there's only 1 correct answer. Now it's been like 1.5 years of us taking showers together every drat day and me not having a choice in the matter. It was fun back when we did it on occasion, but now it just feels normal and boring, almost like a chore.
So, the other day we got into an argument about something unrelated. At the end of the day we sort of make up, but my feelings were still hurt. I was still sad and I did not want to take a shower with her. She takes a shower by herself, doesn't talk to me, cries, and makes me sleep on the couch. The next day we did not talk at all, but in the evening she says she missed me and we had a nice dinner and chatted. Comes shower time and she asks me if I'm going to shower with her. I don't want to shower together every day anymore. She CRIES, sobbing in the corner crying, says she is miserable, can't do it anymore, tired of life, doesn't want to be alive. So do I just suck it up, shower with her for the rest of my life? In my opinion, it is such a weird thing for her to be THIS upset about. Which is why I'm thinking depression.
A bit more about the depression, my gf used to be very depressed and more than once tried to kill herself (10 years ago). She was on meds but after a while she felt like she was better and stopped taking them. I don't know much about depression, but I really feel like it is coming back. She is always saying how she doesn't want to live anymore, is tired of everything in life,gets upset about small things, threatens to kill herself. But, I don't know how to really bring this up I don't want to be so quick to accuse and make it seem like I'm... I don't know... not taking her feelings seriously and just chalking it up to mental illness?
Update: Hey everyone, thank you so much for all your responses. They were very helpful and eye opening. Last night, my girlfriend took a shower without me (4th day in a row) and once again cried because I didn't join her. It wasn't as bad as the last few times, but she still believed that I loved her less/was mad at her/didn't care about her feelings even though I told her many times it wasn't true. I didn't say any specific diagnoses, but I brought up that how she is feeling (sad all the time) and reacting isn't healthy and not only is it affecting her, but it affects my happiness and our relationship. This got to her and although it made her very sad, she agreed that she needs to go back on medication and she thinks it would be good to speak to a therapist. Now that she's had the chance to sleep on it, I hope she continues with this mindset and I will bring it up with her again tonight. However, she did say this morning that she would like to take a shower with me tonight. She sounded extremely sad and I am tempted to do so. Maybe for now we can cut it down to 2x a week and see how it goes from there? Is this a bad idea?
tl;dr: girlfriend got incredibly angry and upset when I said I didn't want to take a shower with her anymore. We normally do, so I can see why she would be sad. But I think she might actually be depressed and should talk to someone about it. Also do I keep taking a shower with her even though I don't want to?

[UPDATE] My [28M] girlfriend [30F] got extremely upset because I didn't want to take a shower with her. I think she might be depressed again, but I don't know how to bring it up.

quote:

Hey everyone!
Here is the link to my first post: https://www.reddit.com/r/relationships/comments/7hype4/my_28m_girlfriend_30f_got_extremely_upset_because/
I�d like to thank everybody for their responses/ they were very helpful and eye opening. A lot has happened in the few days since I first posted, so I�ll try to summarize as well as I can. The showering thing � my girlfriend told me that her feelings are EXTREMELY hurt because taking a shower together is one of her favourite things to do with me. Every day she has cried about it because she doesn�t understand why I don�t want to do it anymore, why I can�t just suck it up and do it because I know it makes her happy, and now she says I have ruined showers. We came to a compromise that we would shower together 3x a week and she could pick which days.
I understand that she is hurt by this, but I do not understand her reaction. It felt very extreme and I think the heart of the problem is depression or something similar. I didn�t say anything specific, but I told my girlfriend that how she is feeling (sad all the time) and how she is reacting isn't healthy and not only is it affecting her, but it affects my happiness and our relationship. She admitted that she does feel sad and like life has no point and that she really over thinks things. She didn�t say anything about her anger or outbursts, so I don�t know if she doesn�t associate these things with depression or maybe she is embarrassed? But she said that she would visit the local walk in clinic the next day to see if she could get some medication. This is a good step, but I really think she should see someone more specialized. The other night she mentioned maybe seeing a psychiatrist but she doesn�t seem enthusiastic or open to the idea at all. Well the next day she was too tired after work, so she never ended up going to the doctor.
On Saturday we were still having this argument (it basically restarts every single evening around shower times). It was basically the same stuff � I hurt her feelings, she doesn�t understand, etc. She was getting extremely upset and said that I was trying to push anti-depressants on her when she feels that she doesn�t need it and that I know that she suffers from depression and it's just a part of her I have to accept. She deals with me being optimistic about life, so I can learn to deal with her hating life. I don�t understand how she can acknowledge there is a problem, but not want to do anything about it.
Anyway, while she was angry I stepped outside. She then closed the door, locked it from the inside, leaving me standing in the cold (it was around -10 degrees and starting to snow) in the middle of the night wearing boxers and a t-shirt. While I was locked out she then got my phone and read through my text messages. I feel like this is just a whole other problem! I may have only been outside for 2 minutes max, but I didn�t know how long she planned to leave me out there in the cold. And then going through my phone?? She eventually opened the door to let me in and so I went to take back my phone and she grabs me and pinches me. Maybe I�m overreacting since I was only outside for a couple of minutes, but I was pretty mad about this. After I cooled down (or..warmed up, technically) she said she was sorry and that it was really mean. But it really felt like I was just�dismissed. It is really bothering me that she did that. I mean, what would you say if I was a kid and my mum locked me out of the house in the cold in my pyjamas? I think this is also added to the fact that she pinched me and in the past has pushed me, kicked me, bitten me, tried to strangle me, and punched me.
This post is getting pretty long, so I�m going to try and wrap it up. At the moment she and I are in limbo, kind of teetering, break up or not break up? She was crying really hard yesterday and was very sad and offered we both go to counseling. So I know she wants to work on things. I know I have hurt her a lot emotionally, but how many times can I forgive her for hurting me physically?
tl;dr: Girlfriend is still very upset that we aren't going to shower together every day. Does not feel like she needs medication, but agreed to go to couple's counseling after I nearly broke up with her for locking me out in the Canadian cold

She sounds like quite the handful.

# ? Dec 11, 2017 17:07

Buzkashi: Feb 4, 2003; College Slice

I just came here to share that, talk about burying the lede, jesus

# ? Dec 11, 2017 17:09

Barudak: May 7, 2007

Ah yes, the classic depressive symptom of locking your SO outside to die of exposure.

# ? Dec 11, 2017 17:10

Jeza: Feb 13, 2011; The cries of the dead are terrible indeed; you should try not to hear them.

People really are broken if they can question whether to stay in that sort of relationship or not. Like, the next step she's got a sledgehammer and he's tied to the bed.

# ? Dec 11, 2017 17:12

Clark Nova: Jul 18, 2004

almightyerin posted:

She deals with me being optimistic about life, so I can learn to deal with her hating life

lol

# ? Dec 11, 2017 17:13

Barudak: May 7, 2007

Jeza posted:

People really are broken if they can question whether to stay in that sort of relationship or not. Like, the next step she's got a sledgehammer and he's tied to the bed.

Knowing the pattern of something, even if it is deeply unpleasant, is better in the human brain than to risk doing something new because at least you get the pattern.

The trick is to dump people early and often so that your brain hasnt had time to say �yes, I get it, dinner ready isnt pizza�

# ? Dec 11, 2017 17:17

blarzgh: Apr 14, 2009; SNITCHIN' RANDY; Grimey Drawer

She deals with me not kicking kittens, soI can learn to deal with her kicking kittens.

# ? Dec 11, 2017 17:20

Doc Hawkins: Jun 15, 2010; Dashing? But I'm not even moving!

As a depressive, to apply the neurodiversity meme to us would be to take it waaaay to far.

# ? Dec 11, 2017 17:23

Vargatron: Apr 19, 2008; MRAZZLE DAZZLE

90% of /r/relationships posts are mental gymnastics designed around making 2+2 = 5.

# ? Dec 11, 2017 17:30

PetraCore: Jul 20, 2017; 👁️🔥👁️👁️👁️BE NOT👄AFRAID👁️👁️👁️🔥👁️

Brother Entropy posted:

3 posts and he only says 'our baby' once in a tl;dr

like yeah, there's more obvious things to point out as to why this guy loving sucks but poo poo dude it's not 'the baby' or 'her retarded baby'. it's yours, it's also your retarded baby that you're abandoning

He's not good enough for that retarded baby. That baby is going to be better than him.

# ? Dec 11, 2017 17:30

La Brea Carpet: Nov 22, 2007; I have no mouth and I must post

PetraCore posted:

He's not good enough for that retarded baby. That baby is going to be better than him.

M-O-O-N spells child support payments

# ? Dec 11, 2017 17:33

Vargatron: Apr 19, 2008; MRAZZLE DAZZLE

La Brea Carpet posted:

M-O-O-N spells child support payments

Watch out for the Walkin' Dude.

# ? Dec 11, 2017 17:38

funktopus: Jan 11, 2009

Basically the only thing to do is break up with her while making her think it was her idea.

# ? Dec 11, 2017 17:38

VanSandman: Feb 16, 2011; SWAP.AVI EXCHANGER

Some people reeeeally are not equipped to handle kids. He�s gonna have to pay for it instead.

# ? Dec 11, 2017 17:40

Skutter: Apr 8, 2007; Well you can fuck that sky high!

Any advice on how to leave a relationship when you�re afraid you might get killed?

quote:

Background: I (female, 22) have been dating my current boyfriend (male, 27) for almost four years. Throughout the entire relationship little red flags were dropped but I was too in love (or stupid) to see them as red flags. Some of those red flags being:

�intense jealousy (accused me of cheating with the professor I do research with) �distrustfulness (at the beginning of our relationship, he was house-sitting at my parents while we were on vacation, and he read all my old journals, and would use the things I wrote in them against me in later fights) �terrible temper (punched a door recently, which was the last straw) �lack of perspective (rarely sees when he is in the wrong) �egotistical (he will ignore me for days if his ego is hurt) �disrespectful (doesn�t care about the things I care about)

Anyway, I�m about to graduate with a biochem degree and head off the med school, and I�m really looking for a way out, but I don�t know how to do it because we live together. I�ve been gone almost every night studying and the other day, he was all like �god, you don�t even love me anymore. I hope one of your professors makes you happy!� And then he came home later with a handgun he bought and said �in case I have to shoot anyone. Remember not to cheat on me.� I was never so scared in my life. I played it all off and laughed, and since then everything has been normal, but I�m loving terrified. I later asked him why he bought the gun, and he said �it was a good deal, and I like knowing I can protect myself.� Maybe he was joking earlier.. maybe not.. does it really matter? Who says that...

Anyway, I genuinely think it�s possible he would kill me. I am afraid even if I break up and don�t have to see him again, he will stalk me and one day still manage to hurt me. Maybe I�m being over paranoid, I don�t know. I am so afraid.

tl;dr: I want to leave my boyfriend but I�m very afraid (after he just bought a handgun) that I�ll be killed.
Any suggestions?

# ? Dec 11, 2017 17:57

Jeza: Feb 13, 2011; The cries of the dead are terrible indeed; you should try not to hear them.

Is the top rated comment to buy a gun?

# ? Dec 11, 2017 17:58

tactlessbastard: Feb 4, 2001; Godspeed, post; Fun Shoe

Use his gun on him

# ? Dec 11, 2017 18:03

The_end: May 17, 2014

Skutter posted:

Any advice on how to leave a relationship when you�re afraid you might get killed?

:/

This woman is going to be murdered.

# ? Dec 11, 2017 18:08

Alien Sex Manual: Dec 14, 2010; is not a sandwich

feedmegin posted:

That thread is 5 years old. Wonder how it turned out now the kid's just getting into preschool.

Maybe dad changed his mind

I went to see if he ever posted again (he didn't) but I love his comment on the r/mra post about child support.

quote:

Dude, it's not that I don't care about the child, it's just that the money issue is really inconvenient, the economy right now is in shambles! Pardon me for being concerned about it�

And bonus mra content:

quote:

You remember all of the extensive reproductive rights that you have enjoyed until now? The same thing will continue to happen after the child is born.

You will not be permitted to participate in raising the child, you will not be consulted on anything relevant to the child, and no matter what you do the child will be told that you are an irresponsible deadbeat.

Slavery is responsibilities without rights. Learn a foreign language and leave the country.

# ? Dec 11, 2017 18:09

Skutter: Apr 8, 2007; Well you can fuck that sky high!

Jeza posted:

Is the top rated comment to buy a gun?

Surprisingly no:

quote:

Your university has a woman's center. Go there tomorrow after classes and ask for help. They will know what to do.

# ? Dec 11, 2017 18:12

La Brea Carpet: Nov 22, 2007; I have no mouth and I must post

Apparently, I'm running an art cartel.

quote:

This is ridiculous, my lawyer is out of town until the weekend. Until I see him, is there anything specific I should worry about with this whole craziness?

Small tourist town, Pennsylvania. I run a gift shop that has a small gallery space for local artists work. Two friends own art galleries within three blocks. We work together to run promotions similar to "first Friday" in larger cities. We also split advertising in flyers showing each of our current showing. Mostly though, we will recommend the other galleries as each of us has a different proffered art type.

A guy moved into the area who owned a high end gallery in a city, who Ill call John. Opens a small gallery in town as his retirement job. We reached out to him to try to include him in the local arts community, but he turned us down rudely. John has been doing poorly. From my perspective it's because most of the work he shows is priced out of the local market and he tends to act rudely to customers.
He has become antagonistic towards us. John has started posted ads that attack us for not having "real art", etc. He has been quite vocal about badmouthing us to anyone who comes in his gallery. So far, we have just let him bury himself in bad business practices and haven't responded in any way.

However, things came to a head this weekend, The other galleries and I held a promotion in conjunction with Halloween festivities and parade on Friday. He was seen pulling down our flyers around town last week. Most local shops stayed open late that night and had sales or promotions, but John's gallery was noticeably closed the entire day Friday and Saturday. In the morning Sunday John posted on his personal Facebook saying the other local galleries trashed his shop front. Later in the day a local police officer came by to ask me about it. I know the police officer and he basically said the pictures he was shown were candy wrappers and litter by the door, similar to what was left all along the parade route. The officer said he had no reason to think we were involved or that it was malicious, but he wanted to follow up and settle the issue.

I was told the next day John posted and then deleted numerous complaints on Facebook against other local businesses, but especially me and the other three galleries. He has even given us a nickname, which sounds like an old west group (think "The Three Banditos"). I can't see John's posts but was sent two screenshots and told there was worse. On Monday, two of my friends galleries had printed flyers taped to their doors overnight, blasting them for selling cheap art and for pushing new galleries out of the community. I'm told there were also angry posts on Facebook saying that an artist who had decided to pull from his gallery, which he blamed on us. None of us know this artist, nor had any contact.

Which brings us to this morning. I get a call saying that John was at a local coffee shop trying to get people to give him money to mount a lawsuit against us. He apparently had a document he typed up with his grievances. He is claiming that I specifically am running an art cartel! (Hence the post title). That two of the other shops have flooded the market with low end art to destroy his business. John was hassling patrons for money so much he was asked to leave before cops were called.

I think Johns business is doing poorly and he is going a little crazy. I think the worst he could do is drag us into a pricey lawsuit that goes no where, but I want to make sure there's no other trouble he could make for us. Is this dire enough to bring in a lawyer before I speak to mine on Tuesday?

Slight update: One of the gallery owners who had something taped to their food Monday met with their lawyer today. He let me know his lawyer is writing a cease and desist. His lawyer passed along similar recommendations to here: collect any evidence, get a security camera, and see if this blows over. I'm still meeting w my lawyer Tuesday, and have people friended to John in Facebook watching for any new posts. I'm probably going to just see if my lawyer will also do a cease and desist, but otherwise I'm just going to stay back and watch.

Adding: I posted this on a throwaway to have some anonymity. I've gotten 17 guesses as to my town or gallery. Understand I know that can only lead to harassment of John, so I'm definitely not going to give away any more information.

Update:

quote:

I figure I owe a follow up to all the crazy that has happened, even though most of it is social small town drama and not "legal". Still, it's been an insane month. For ease, I'm just going to refer to both people and places as Gallery A, Gallery B and Gallery C. (Also I got a lot of guesses as to my shop and town. Also I got a lot of guesses as to where I live. At least one was correct but I'm not going to verify because I don't want John harassed.)

Coming off of the first post I made, John was continuing to make weird statements online. I had a few people who are friends with him agreeing to take screenshots. In one, he was petitioning for funds to bring a lawsuit against The Three Banditos. Someone asked what his proof was that we were hurting his business, and he posted a weird combination of google pictures of our storefronts, an ad for one of our events, and a listing in an old ad for downtown businesses that was printed a year before he went into business. He also linked to a several year old interview from Gallery A about supporting high school artists.

I had my meeting scheduled with my lawyer on Tuesday Nov 7th, but he called on Monday. When I answered the phone he joked "I'm really disappointed in what a terrible art cartel you're running." It turns out my lawyer's secretary had been at the coffee shop when John was trying to get money and kept a copy of the list of grievances. When I arrived for the meeting on Tuesday, my lawyer had a downright sassy letter ready to go for John which told him that any future threats would be taken seriously and then helpfully referred him to the definitions of a cartel.

For a few days, nothing. Then my lawyer, I and the other galleries all get a copy of John's list of grievances in the mail. This was the first I read it, but essentially pinpoints me as the head of the art cartel based on the fact that I was the one to sign the contract for the advertising page we took out in the local tourist book. He also points out we have similar hours of operation we established without consulting him. (A note about this. We don't have the exact hours. We just all are open similar times to the other businesses and restaurants around us because of traffic flow).

He also claims Gallery A is committing fraud as they show original pieces but also sell framed prints of the same work at more reasonable prices. A new addition was the commentary that I (me, personally) had conspired with an ice cream place near him and told them to reduce their hours for the winter in order to hurt his traffic. (The fact that they always reduce hours because ice cream doesn't sell in winter apparently wasn't it). There were a few other points, but those were the most bizarre.

My lawyer CC'd me on a letter that can be summed up "Seriously, knock it off," and told him he was banned from my shop.

On Veteran's day, I got a call from the high school art teacher. She told me that John had called her and told her not to work with local galleries anymore. He said that if she ceased working with us that he would give her brochures for "legitimate" art schools for her students. When she said she planned to continue working with us, John said that she was leading her students to poor practices. She contacted me afraid that there would be issue with her students. I said I didn't foresee any issue, but thanked her for her information. I said if it escalated, I'd ask her to speak to my lawyer.

A few days later, I get a screenshot of John's Facebook page that has listed "the Three Banditos are at it again". It links to two upcoming events we were advertising for the holiday crowd. It also included a fantastic photoshop collage of myself, the other gallery owners and a local jeweler, each wearing a black cowboy hat and bandana. Later that day the jeweler called to jokingly ask me if there was an initiation process to join the Banditos. We have no idea why he is included, he wasn't part of the promotion John linked.

I found out at this point that John previously attacked a Paint and Sip that's run by a local business on the local tourist Facebook page. He posted a pic of one of their previous group photos with "This is not art" written across it. He pulled it after several people pointed out his high end gallery shouldn't feel threatened by a paint and sip. But before he did Gallery C responded by posting Magritte's Treachery of Images, which is so funny in so many levels.

Then things escalated again. On Nov 13th, John posted a pic on Facebook of Gallery B, which is located on a corner, with sidewalks only on one side. He pointed out that if someone were to take the corner too quickly, they would crash into the building. Then asked people to do the "right thing" and drink and drive around the block a few times. It turns out Gallery B and John are in the same professional organization, and they look poorly on threats. Gallery B sent screenshots as well as a copy of John's list of grievances and John was put on probation with the organization pending review.

The next morning, John is outside my shop screaming that he knows what I did and that I have spies. He didn't enter the premises and left when I threatened to call police, but I did get video of him on my phone. The same day he removed anyone local from his Facebook. That afternoon, John apparently went to a local restaurant and hassled the owner for details about what we are doing to ruin his business. The restaurant eventually threw him out, but up until then the owner hadn't heard any of this, so he called me to ask what the heck this was about.

Nov 16th, I was opening shop when a friend sends me a picture of John in handcuffs. We rent advertising space at a historic site where local information is kept. John was found vandalizing our poster, its frame, and the acrylic cover. He did this during the day when employees were around, no clue how he thought he would get away with it. He got a fine for his troubles, but it got more gossip out there. Turns out I wasn't the first threatened with lawsuits in the community. I passed this onto my lawyer.

The weekend before Thanksgiving, there was a meeting of the group that handles the downtown events, projects etc. Most shops are fairly active with the group and the meetings are open to the public. As far as I know John has never attended a meeting until this one. They were discussing the finalization of Christmas tree lighting and Christmas events when a John asked for time to speak. He handed out this paper to everyone present which had a summary of his financials at his old, city gallery and a summary of his financials at his new gallery. Then he apparently said "I think we all know whose fault it is that theres a difference. I'm not naming names." Then he glared at everyone until they got him to leave the podium.

I was given a copy of this by someone who attended the meeting. John isn't doing well financially. I turned it over to my lawyer.

The day before Thanksgiving there was a notice posted on the community bulletin board. It stated that there is a conspiracy in town to put new businesses down. It then refers to "certain individuals" and "certain unnamed shops", and has several of the same bullet points as John's list of grievances. It also says those certain individuals have paid off all local lawyers from representing the person who put up the poster. This notice was removed from the bulletin board as everything posted there needs prior approval. Gallery C happened to hear about it and fished it out of the trash. We turned it over to my lawyer.

I had hoped things would de escalate now that I was downgraded from Bandito to the Nameless One, but no such luck. That Saturday, the 25th, we hosted an event with refreshments. The way this works is that we sell admission and you get a wristband and go from participating shops and galleries for food. John did not participate, as usual.

At some point during the afternoon, two of the participants went into John's shop. When he saw the wristbands, he went into the back and came out with a scissors. He told them to be in his gallery, they had to cut the wristbands off. When they refused, he grabbed at the woman's hand still holding the scissors, and was yelling. The two left the gallery and reported it to a police officer. Their next stop was Gallery B, where they told this story. My lawyer has been unable to get verification for this incident from police. (This is also, as far as I know, the last time the gallery was open.)

The next day, Sunday, I got a visitor in my shop who was acting weird. He was asking my employee detailed questions about the business: where did we get our artwork, what did we pay, how much was rent. When I overheard this I came over and realized the guy bore a striking resemblance to John, only younger. Let's call him John Jr. I introduced myself and he asked me if I had any upcoming promotions. In response, I handed him a copy of the monthly booklet the town puts out, which has basically everything happening in the area, including our events. John Jr looked surprised, and asked me where else he could get this booklet. I gave him a list of places offhand. He then asked me if everywhere got the same copy. I said they did and it was also available online. I was really hestitant that I was giving John information , but figured by only giving easily found public info, I was ok.

John Jr left, but I found out he went to a coffee shop and asked if they had a copy of the booklet and asked a ton of questions about it and my shop.

Gallery C contacted me last Monday to let me know that John had gotten into a heated argument with a man matching John Jr's description on the sidewalk near Gallery C. John Jr had left and driven away.

By last Wednesday, John had a sign on the door of his gallery stating it would be closed any day there is a planned downtown event listed online. As there's something happening nearly every day for the holidays, this would mean he will be closed essentially all of December.

The next day, Gallery C got a letter from John. It told him to stop walking by the front of John's store, and claims to have "hours of footage" of him passing by. He then threatened to sue Gallery C for using the public sidewalk. (Gallery C and John are on the same street and Gallery C needs to use the parking lot past John's store, so he does pass by twice a day.). At this point, Gallery C decided to retain my lawyer. He was told to cross the street instead of passing directly in front of John's gallery for the time being, but our lawyer also sent a response letter. Gallery C informed me of this after their meeting.

At this point, I also found out through the grape vine that John had attempted to hire my lawyer some weeks prior in order to sue me, only to be told it would be a conflict of interest.

John responded by sending our lawyer a rambling, multi page letter that had some elements of his list of grievances and other additions. While it probably was in response to Gallery C, most of it was directed at me,
so my lawyer showed it to me. it was mostly insulting my business and saying I purposefully am putting him out of business. It also includes that John attempted to get this put in the local newspaper some weeks prior, but they turned him down. We are trying to get verification of this. My lawyer basically says if John does anything else, he is bringing the hammer down on him, and sent a letter to this effect.

At dinner, I heard a rumor John is behind on his rent and the landlord is planning evictions after the holidays. Because his gallery has been closed, I haven't seen John since Thanksgiving weekend.
Gallery B sent a Christmas card with a cropped pic of himself in a black hat and bandana from John's Facebook, framed in a wreath. He wants us to take a group photo in black cowboy hats and bandanas for next year's local business review. I'm debating it.

Let's settle this like men, acrylics at high noon.

# ? Dec 11, 2017 18:14

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# ? Jun 12, 2024 21:05

tactlessbastard: Feb 4, 2001; Godspeed, post; Fun Shoe

The_end posted:

This woman is going to be murdered.

Not if she follows my advice!

# ? Dec 11, 2017 18:16

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