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Krycek posted:I wouldn't say it was "better". Star wars is poo poo. It just has more spergs jizzing themselves over it. :blocked:
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Dec 11, 2017 12:18
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Sarsapariller posted:Episode 2 Posting from so far back in the thread that Lincoln may still be alive, but, this is a high quality post. I laughed throughout it. Well done friend! Star Citizen: The SA SC forum moves faster than game’s fps
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Dec 11, 2017 12:21
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alf_pogs posted:hrmm yes i thought things were fine before but this new comment, this is cause for concern It was because before, the netcode was the issue and it was coming soon. Possibly from magic germans But now a senior guy says 1. Engine bad -bad for star citizen so scary 2. blame the client's hardware, which is an extension of the citizen's spaceships. You don't gently caress with the spaceships CIG I told you.
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Dec 11, 2017 12:26
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Heres the dudes other comment after the infamous one loving with the spaceshipsquote:Thanks for the interest, @broco2002. As far as I'm aware there currently aren't any plans to do a netcode special on AtV or any of the other shows. Most of what we do on the network team is hidden from view, so it would be cool to be able to give the community an update and go into detail about what's been done, and where we go from here. If the community team feel there is enough interest in something like this then I'm sure it will happen. Believe me, I can talk about the work we've been doing for hours on end - you might be sorry that you asked
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Dec 11, 2017 12:29
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a citizen's rig is his cockpit. which is an aspect of spaceships. ands CIGs loving with it
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Dec 11, 2017 12:41
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Goobs posted:i lol'd too hard at this. All the cool cats are in Florida.  http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/eight-marijuana-edibles-perfect-for-the-florida-palate-6526227
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Dec 11, 2017 12:42
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Foo Diddley posted:Half a motherfucking decade into development and they are just now realizing that their FPS engine can't do an MMO. And they can't just scrap and rewrite everything that they need to, because people are playing the game already. They have to completely overhaul the engine, but do it bit by bit without breaking anything too badly, so that they can show constant progress to the backers. Good luck with that, CIG Harsh but fair
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Dec 11, 2017 13:09
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https://twitter.com/Eons_after/status/940187152528429057
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Dec 11, 2017 13:14
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Foo Diddley posted:Half a motherfucking decade into development and they are just now realizing that their FPS engine can't do an MMO. And they can't just scrap and rewrite everything that they need to, because people are playing the game already. They have to completely overhaul the engine, but do it bit by bit without breaking anything too badly, so that they can show constant progress to the backers. Good luck with that, CIG They've known for a long time. Its why they've tried to do engine changes (without actually just biting the bullet and doing the engine change, Lumberyard)
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Dec 11, 2017 13:20
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Mr Fronts posted:Two light globes are in the bin so far, thanks to SuperHot knife-throwing. Thankfully, I have not hit anything with my arms. Got that out of the way when I smacked a WiiMote into my own leg while bowling in Wii Sports back in the day. Right now, I'm just getting turned around and bumping into things with my legs.
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Dec 11, 2017 13:21
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HoneyBakedMAN posted:I'm about to go to my first AA meeting at 6:15am here. After considering buying a Star Citizen ship I realized it was time to seek help. Wish me luck goons. Fare thee well, commando o9
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Dec 11, 2017 13:22
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https://www.twitch.tv/videos/208483825?t=17m15s https://www.twitch.tv/videos/208483825?t=45m55s https://www.twitch.tv/videos/208483825?t=49m43s 
AP fucked around with this message at 13:37 on Dec 11, 2017 |
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Dec 11, 2017 13:32
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"netcode" packs so much of SC's problems into a tiny neat ignorable box. All CIG had to do is say "don't worry we'll improve the netcode when all the major features are complete" and they would be fine. I imagine there is a lot of rear end covering and throwing other departments under the bus in CIG's company culture, this guy was just doing what Chris taught him to do.
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Dec 11, 2017 13:40
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Delivers a box, we did it, mission complete. "Now let's leave the game, that was a stressful". "8 Frames per second, nope". Spends next 7 hours playing Black Desert Online
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Dec 11, 2017 13:44
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Sarsapariller posted:https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/50259/thread/why-is-the-graphics-pipeline-waiting-for-server-up/773513 What Clive wrote is absolutely and patently insane. If I didn't read that with my own eyes, I wouldn't have believed it. wow. It clearly shows - yet another example of why this project is FUBAR. I am writing an article right now about it. For the record, and in case there was ANY doubt, I called it already...http://dereksmart.com/forums/reply/5949/ ----------------
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Dec 11, 2017 14:01
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Dooguk posted:I hear Star Citizen is future locked. You heard wrong. It is spin. Spin locked.
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Dec 11, 2017 14:23
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D_Smart posted:What Clive wrote is absolutely and patently insane. If I didn't read that with my own eyes, I wouldn't have believed it. wow. Derek you're obviously mistaken. He's not just any network engineer. Citizens have recognized him as a netcode God. Bow before your betters. https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/7j0jcf/clive_johnson_netcode_god_wants_to_do_a_special/?st=jb28i01c&sh=d242ff8d Suddenly we're all really excited for a 40 minute episode about latency and packet size.
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Dec 11, 2017 14:31
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Star Citizen - Lock, spin and two T-posing commandos
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Dec 11, 2017 14:39
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Sarsapariller posted:Derek you're obviously mistaken. He's not just any network engineer. Citizens have recognized him as a netcode God. Bow before your betters. God, I hope he does it. If nothing else, it will solidify what I've said all along, that this game is FUBAR; let alone ever becoming an MMO. ----------------
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Dec 11, 2017 14:39
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Tokamak posted:Congratulations to Clive Johnson, the latest CIG employee to stick a foot in their mouth. The reddit thread is shooting its way up to the top to become this week's controversy. HAHAHA holy poo poo. That guy has no loving idea what he’s talking about. That’s written like your Michael Scott level manager or customer service rep that hears the engineers say words and thinks if he re-uses the words that means he’s an expert on the subject. Jesus what a fiasco.
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Dec 11, 2017 14:42
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LOL "Netcode isn't hosed guys, its just that all the other players being around you (on an entirely different moon/planet/station) is making YOUR client have to work harder" are they serious? The fact that you client has to process any of that information at all means your netcode is hosed e-So here's the apparent solution to this problem. Instance things. Why the gently caress should my client care about what some fucker is doing in sector 5 planet 3 or whatever when I'm in station 2? Cao Ni Ma fucked around with this message at 14:50 on Dec 11, 2017 |
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Dec 11, 2017 14:44
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Star Citizen: 1 Player 1 Server
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Dec 11, 2017 14:49
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Facebook Aunt posted:Eve Goons are actually the finest roleplayers the world has ever seen. Everybody can't be the hero, because then you are left with nothing but garbage NPCs to to be the enemy, and NPCs suck. So Eve goons volunteer to play the violent mindless hive of hate and violence that can't be reasoned with, that won't show mercy, that just never stops. Now that's an enemy you can have a years long vendetta against. An enemy worth spawning a galaxy wide coalition to knock down. Yes. Even though the entire Eve community was cheering while they lost all their space last year in the Casino War the fact is I think Eve would be long gone and dead if it wasn't for goons. They've kept it going all these years with the "we're here to break your game stuff." You are either one of them and love it or you're on the other side and hate them which is exactly what Eve needs. Content and conflict.
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Dec 11, 2017 14:52
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I still can’t get over the fact that the CLIENT has to run every single player’s loving physics simulation. I mean jesus christ. Each client is ALREADY doing their own physics simulation locally, Just send the position updates to the server, what kind of broke rear end poo poo is this. You know what this means right? If my client is running your physics simulation, you are sending me the hardware inputs for your mouse, keyboard, joystic, pedals, etc. How else would I run your physics simulation without inputs? Now just multiply that by number_of_players_in_server. That sounds scalable right? Insane. Either he’s lying, he’s wrong because he doesn’t understand game development, or he’s telling the truth. None of those are a good look.
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Dec 11, 2017 14:53
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Assuming CIG's server-side code is just as good as their client-side code, I have two questions. What happens when AWS resources get spinlocked ? What does that do to their hosting bills?
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Dec 11, 2017 14:59
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This is a funny thing to see:quote:* Server FPS does not affect client FPS. Server frames-per-second? Huh? Is the server rendering stuff? Best case he's trying to use terms the players understand (which can easily create new myths and misunderstandings) - worst case the server is just a modified client acting as a "scene/level/map host". If that's the case the current server tech is a dead end, and needs to be ditched for an actual server implementation. From his tone, he's annoyed that the servers (which may not be under much load) and netcode is being blamed for architectural issues. But even if the servers are not currently heavily loaded, they are not going to scale if they are frankenclients hosting "maps". I don't believe such an architecture can be incrementally reworked to do what they want. Did they really not consider writing server-side software to run this? Bugs and instability when running an alpha with an active and demanding player base (not to mention the not quite feature-locked person in charge) is not entirely unreasonable. Ignoring the most important aspect of making an MMO - server tech - is not reasonable. And reading that post, I get a feeling there is no real server. If that's the case, I expect a Server 2.0 being announced at some point. PederP fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Dec 11, 2017 |
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Dec 11, 2017 15:07
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PederP posted:with an active and demanding player base  the backers are falling over themselves to defend the terrible framerates, saying that the best-case 20-30 FPS is perfectly fine.
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Dec 11, 2017 15:16
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PederP posted:And reading that post, I get a feeling there is no real server. If that's the case, I expect a Server 2.0 being announced at some point. Null modem support for those new-fangled "LAN parties" will be Server 2.0
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Dec 11, 2017 15:19
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The turn from "Netcode 2.0 will save Star Citizen" to "Actually it's not the Netcode, it's that we used the wrong engine" was so severe I think I have whiplash. Thank you Mr. Networking God, you'll be hearing from my lawyer.
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Dec 11, 2017 15:22
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PederP posted:Did they really not consider writing server-side software to run this? Search your feelings, you know it to be true.
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Dec 11, 2017 15:24
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Enchanted Hat posted:
True, many defend the project quite vehemently, and I'm sure marketing and community management love it, but to the developers in the trenches I don't think it feels that way. The programmer who wants to chuck out some core system and start over can't do that, because Chris promised backers something they can play now and incremental improvements. They can't rework anything - only forward progress is accepted. Everything is framed as an evolution of prior work. There's tremendous patience for the speed of progress, but it's not just Chris' pride which has kept them from starting over with any subsystem in a meaningful way. Backers demand the narrative that this project is ground-breaking and made by tech-wizards. If they start over with anything, if they admit making fundamental mistakes, they're killing that narrative. No touching the spaceships, and no touching the dreams. It's like the developers have a rich spouse who'll do anything to defend them, but is it really that cool when they're constantly walking into doors and being locked in the basement?
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Dec 11, 2017 15:26
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This is from literal days ago, butCodezombie posted:Also bonus video of someone else's implementation of the ideas in said white paper.
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Dec 11, 2017 15:40
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PederP posted:This is a funny thing to see: Server frame rate == tick rate. In gamdev speak, a frame is one entire cycle of the game loop. On a client machine, rendering is a part of that loop, server, not so much. Check out this article, it’s good: http://gameprogrammingpatterns.com/game-loop.html edit: caveat, it’s CIG, and I wouldn’t put “the server actually rendering” past Chris “Goldenhands” Roberts and his ragtag crew. Toops fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Dec 11, 2017 |
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Dec 11, 2017 15:43
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96EV43rvI5Q&t=814s
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Dec 11, 2017 15:44
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reddit posted:Can't wait until this is clarified, because this type of semantic double speak is exactly what this community doesn't need. Ready for stage 3 already? It'll take at least a day to produce a whole new AtV from scratch. Loxbourne posted:Stage 3: CIG releases a sanitised version of whatever has scared the citizens. A livestream with the cringeworthy bits cropped out. "It's not really selling land". See, it didn't happen the way you were afraid it did, it actually happened like this. This is a nice safe version you can tell yourself is the real one. A kernel for the new Citizen narrative to form around.
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Dec 11, 2017 15:45
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Toops posted:Server frame rate == tick rate. Well, I've been a gamedev for more than a decade, and I've never heard anyone use frame in a server-side context. You also shouldn't have a loop based server architecture in an MMO, outside of basic plumbing for consumer-producer patterns, etc. PederP fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Dec 11, 2017 |
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Dec 11, 2017 15:46
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"Network is broken, but the network is not at fault", said the network engineer.
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Dec 11, 2017 15:51
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https://twitter.com/techobabble/status/827658858126573572
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Dec 11, 2017 15:57
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https://twitter.com/CitizenGrandpa/status/940224043046883329 https://twitter.com/CitizenGrandpa/status/936344251142680577 https://twitter.com/CitizenGrandpa/status/931658054453596160
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Dec 11, 2017 15:59
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Bayonnefrog posted:Yes. Even though the entire Eve community was cheering while they lost all their space last year in the Casino War the fact is I think Eve would be long gone and dead if it wasn't for goons. They've kept it going all these years with the "we're here to break your game stuff." You are either one of them and love it or you're on the other side and hate them which is exactly what Eve needs. Content and conflict. Curiously, this isn't the first time that we've lost all our space. I have fond memories of the last rot cycle that had us doing small gang actions down in Curse. We were outnumbered and mostly outgunned, running cheap fits and taking the piss out of the RPers. Then Solar Fleet gave us the keys to the north because they were disbanding, and everything moved to big pretensions again. Dunno about the recent stuff; I won Eve five years ago. We were always the bad guys they needed, though. Toops posted:Either he’s lying, he’s wrong because he doesn’t understand game development, or he’s telling the truth. None of those are a good look. Nope. I started to theory-craft that he's getting star topology mixed up with peer-to-peer, and it just descends into nonsense. I doubt that they have a network team at this point. Golli posted:Assuming CIG's server-side code is just as good as their client-side code, I have two questions. Compute pays for compute time, so it'll, so about the technical terms, 'knock it into a cocked loving hat'. As it is, they're going to stretch bandwidth with the sheer volume of updates, and the FCC is about to change the landscape forever. PederP posted:Did they really not consider writing server-side software to run this? Bugs and instability when running an alpha with an active and demanding player base (not to mention the not quite feature-locked person in charge) is not entirely unreasonable. Ignoring the most important aspect of making an MMO - server tech - is not reasonable. And reading that post, I get a feeling there is no real server. If that's the case, I expect a Server 2.0 being announced at some point. They're vested in Yojimbo at the moment; https://github.com/networkprotocol/yojimbo I believe private servers were a stretch goal? Remember when Elite announced that there would be no entire offline mode and the mad people rebelled?
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Dec 11, 2017 16:02
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