Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Tenzarin
Jul 24, 2007
.
Taco Defender

Typo posted:

so guys

what happens if there's a run on bitcoins but the validation time is too long that you can't get them out, or it take so long to validate that the price went back during the validation time of like 24 hours

If you can't be bothered to submit a $20+ fee for our fee-less currency of the future, then I am afraid that you are not ready for the future.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Triglav
Jun 2, 2007

IT IS HARAAM TO SEND SMILEY FACES THROUGH THE INTERNET

Typo posted:

so guys

what happens if there's a run on bitcoins but the validation time is too long that you can't get them out, or it take so long to validate that the price went back during the validation time of like 24 hours

If your BTC is on an exchange already, transaction times for the blockchain don't matter. You're trading the exchange's internal database, not the wider blockchain.

Helpfully that also means the exchange doesn't have to actually posses the bitcoin they're selling you.

Burt Sexual
Jan 26, 2006

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Switchblade Switcharoo
Velocity of bitcoin

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



Typo posted:

so guys

what happens if there's a run on bitcoins but the validation time is too long that you can't get them out, or it take so long to validate that the price went back during the validation time of like 24 hours
Ron Paul becomes President.

Solice Kirsk
Jun 1, 2004

.

temple posted:

How did you guys get so smart at money trading stuff? I know bitcoin is a scam because its nerd fun money.

Unless you're an engineer or a doctor (they immediately know everything about everything they touch, just ask them) the same as everyone else. By reading, studying, or experience.

But as I prove almost every single month, having knowledge just makes your stupid decisions funnier.

Solice Kirsk fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Dec 11, 2017

AARP LARPer
Feb 19, 2005

THE DARK SIDE OF SCIENCE BREEDS A WEAPON OF WAR

Buglord

Typo posted:

so guys

what happens if there's a run on bitcoins but the validation time is too long that you can't get them out, or it take so long to validate that the price went back during the validation time of like 24 hours

I'm wondering if there can even be a run considering you can't get your bitcoins out as it is.

Uranium 235
Oct 12, 2004

divabot posted:

this is true in made-up bitcoin digital goldbug economics, but not in actual economics.

the catch in the case of bitcoin is the thin trading. it literally takes only tens of BTC to cause a major price movement.
how do you define "major price movement"?

quote:

there are plenty of whales who could crash the price any time. having another whale come online wouldn't actually change that.
you don't think adding 1 million bitcoins to the exchanges won't affect the price? okay lol

all the other whales are priced in because the markets have been trading with them for years

quote:

it would make the news, but you know that bitcoiners' reaction would be to loudly come up with spurious reasons why THIS IS FINE and the thing they said 5 minutes before was TOTALLY INCORRECT and HOW COULD ANYONE SAY THAT as long as - and this is the key point - they think they can make the number stay up.
except that the bitcoin price has reacted to bad news by dropping 30+% in the past. not sure why you think it wouldn't drop in this scenario

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



WAR DOGS OF SOCHI posted:

I'm wondering if there can even be a run considering you can't get your bitcoins out as it is.
Well historically the inflated prices have lasted until the exchange went down. Even when Mark Karpeles's cat had stolen all the MTGOX bitcoins people were creating promissory notes among themselves to the right to get some piece of those butts when MTGOX came back online, for a while.

I do not believe it ever did, of course.

Novo
May 13, 2003

Stercorem pro cerebro habes
Soiled Meat
do people actually trade bitcoins on exchanges though? i thought the market was comprised entirely of "investors" holding long positions

The Glumslinger
Sep 24, 2008

Coach Nagy, you want me to throw to WHAT side of the field?


Hair Elf

Novo posted:

do people actually trade bitcoins on exchanges though? i thought the market was comprised entirely of "investors" holding long positions

Yeah, tons of crazy margin trading going on

Like, some sites offer 1000x margin trading

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



Novo posted:

do people actually trade bitcoins on exchanges though? i thought the market was comprised entirely of "investors" holding long positions
Some. Apparently a guy sold 500 butts on one exchange last night and the price dropped 6%.

COMRADES
Apr 3, 2017

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

The Glumslinger posted:

Like, some sites offer 1000x margin trading

Holy poo poo really?

That should be illegal as gently caress my god.

Uranium 235
Oct 12, 2004

Novo posted:

do people actually trade bitcoins on exchanges though? i thought the market was comprised entirely of "investors" holding long positions
yes, there is pretty significant volume on bitcoin exchanges. billions of dollars a day

and if you want to exclude the exchanges that use tether, just look at gdax: they have $800 million of volume today, just for bitcoin. another $500 million for litecoin

Uranium 235
Oct 12, 2004

COMRADES posted:

Holy poo poo really?

That should be illegal as gently caress my god.

idk about 1000x but there is definitely 100x margin on bitmex, which is stupid

The Glumslinger
Sep 24, 2008

Coach Nagy, you want me to throw to WHAT side of the field?


Hair Elf

Uranium 235 posted:

idk about 1000x but there is definitely 100x margin on bitmex, which is stupid
Guess my cold addled brain added an extra zero

There is some twitter account tracking when people get margin called on that site

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



Uranium 235 posted:

idk about 1000x but there is definitely 100x margin on bitmex, which is stupid
What do you even get out of that, other than a brain chemical squirt to the effect of "YEAH! HODL!!! TAKE THAT JANET YELLEN"

Moridin920
Nov 15, 2007

by FactsAreUseless
lol at anyone who trades at 100x margin they must have balls of steel

The Glumslinger posted:

There is some twitter account tracking when people get margin called on that site

lol

These guys are gonna have all their poo poo frozen by the SEC i'm callin it now

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



Moridin920 posted:

lol at anyone who trades at 100x margin they must have balls of steel


lol

These guys are gonna have all their poo poo frozen by the SEC i'm callin it now
A likely ending here is that "Grandma," i e "people with actual money," abruptly lose a chunk of it... but not so large a chunk that they can't hire for-real attorneys!

Moridin920
Nov 15, 2007

by FactsAreUseless
100x is just brazen as gently caress

Solice Kirsk
Jun 1, 2004

.

Moridin920 posted:

lol at anyone who trades at 100x margin they must have balls of steel


lol

These guys are gonna have all their poo poo frozen by the SEC i'm callin it now

SEC has no authority. That's a selling point.

Moridin920
Nov 15, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

Solice Kirsk posted:

SEC has no authority. That's a selling point.

lol

https://www.coindesk.com/sec-halts-multimillion-dollar-munchee-ico-securities-violations/

quote:

Dec 11 2017

The SEC announced today that Munchee Inc. had provided refunds to investors after officials made contact and drew issue with its token sale, which the agency said constituted the offer and sale of unregistered securities.

The development represents the latest high-profile move by the agency to regulate initial coin offerings, coming roughly a week after the SEC filed a fraud suit against the organizer of the PlexCoin token sale. As in that instance, today's order resulted from an investigation by the SEC's Cyber Unit, formed earlier this year in part to police token sales that involve U.S. investors.

Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Dec 12, 2017

D1Sergo
May 5, 2006

Be sure to take a 15-minute break every hour.

Nessus posted:

Some. Apparently a guy sold 500 butts on one exchange last night and the price dropped 6%.

Uh oh bitcoiners, better get out while you can before someone else takes YOUR money!

*crosses fingers*

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



D1Sergo posted:

Uh oh bitcoiners, better get out while you can before someone else takes YOUR money!

*crosses fingers*
It does make this entire "market cap" thing loltastic, which even the Wall Street Journal observed

Solice Kirsk
Jun 1, 2004

.

Well this doesn't bode well with my new found hatred of fiat currency and mistrust of banking and government institutions. I do believe I will cash out of my Litecoins and invest in something more secure such as emeralds or bars of silver.

divabot
Jun 17, 2015

A polite little mouse!

Uranium 235 posted:

how do you define "major price movement"?

we literally had that discussion in this thread, so see previous answer

the hypothesis that the Satoshi stash would trash the price presumes whoever has it wants to trash the price. if you're assuming that as well, say so. but the fact of a Satoshi coin moving doesn't mean that whoever has it wants to trash the price.

D1Sergo
May 5, 2006

Be sure to take a 15-minute break every hour.

Solice Kirsk posted:

Well this doesn't bode well with my new found hatred of fiat currency and mistrust of banking and government institutions. I do believe I will cash out of my Litecoins and invest in something more secure such as emeralds or bars of silver.

I'm doubling down on WoW tokens! The next Xpac is going to be a game-changer, I can feel it!

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



divabot posted:

we literally had that discussion in this thread, so see previous answer

the hypothesis that the Satoshi stash would trash the price presumes whoever has it wants to trash the price. if you're assuming that as well, say so. but the fact of a Satoshi coin moving doesn't mean that whoever has it wants to trash the price.
I think it would cause a froth among the old guards that someone either was, or had hacked, Satoshi.

Or had hacked bitcoin, which, I mean, there's increasing motive now. :getin:

Computer Serf
May 14, 2005
Buglord

Typo posted:

so guys

what happens if there's a run on bitcoins but the validation time is too long that you can't get them out, or it take so long to validate that the price went back during the validation time of like 24 hours

can't have a run on the banks if you're stuck crawling :smugbert:

Hillary 2024
Nov 13, 2016

by vyelkin

Triglav posted:

If your BTC is on an exchange already, transaction times for the blockchain don't matter. You're trading the exchange's internal database, not the wider blockchain.

Helpfully that also means the exchange doesn't have to actually posses the bitcoin they're selling you.

I ain't no big city lawyer but that there sounds like a heapin' helpin' of trouble

Uranium 235
Oct 12, 2004

divabot posted:

we literally had that discussion in this thread, so see previous answer

the hypothesis that the Satoshi stash would trash the price presumes whoever has it wants to trash the price. if you're assuming that as well, say so. but the fact of a Satoshi coin moving doesn't mean that whoever has it wants to trash the price.
oh yeah i remember that conversation, you ended up being completely wrong

it takes more than "tens of bitcoins" to move the price in any major way. on gdax, right now, you'd need more than 200 to move the price by 1%, and that's just a single market buy that would move the price for a split second. in reality, traders will add orders to the book as you try to move the price, so it takes more than that

bitcoin did have a major change in price in the last 24 hours, but it also has 41,000 volume on gdax. not tens

as for the satoshi stash, i'm 100% sure that the price would drop significantly if those bitcoins move. not necessarily forever, because you're right that if the mover doesn't actually sell them then the long-term effect would be negligible, but it would be noticed and i think the exchanges would react in the short-term

this same thing happened with ethereum at the peak of ICO mania--everyone was aware that ICOs were getting tens of thousands of ethereum and that if they wanted to use those to fund their development, they'd have to sell them on the market. ethereum prices dropped and stayed depressed for months

Uranium 235 fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Dec 12, 2017

Dmitri-9
Nov 30, 2004

There's something really sexy about Scrooge McDuck. I love Uncle Scrooge.

Uranium 235 posted:

this same thing happened with ethereum at the peak of ICO mania--everyone was aware that ICOs were getting tens of thousands of ethereum and that if they wanted to use those to fund their development, they'd have to sell them on the market. ethereum prices dropped and stayed depressed for months

Kinda puts the kibosh on using ether to buy coffee doesn't it? Oh man the ICO market is red hot, oh gently caress I just lost half of my spending money.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



Dmitri-9 posted:

Kinda puts the kibosh on using ether to buy coffee doesn't it? Oh man the ICO market is red hot, oh gently caress I just lost half of my spending money.
You never spend money, just hold onto it forever

No this isn't parasitic on an actual economy, why?

Burt Sexual
Jan 26, 2006

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Switchblade Switcharoo

Solice Kirsk posted:

Well this doesn't bode well with my new found hatred of fiat currency and mistrust of banking and government institutions. I do believe I will cash out of my Litecoins and invest in something more secure such as emeralds or bars of silver.

Lol I invested with “Munchees”, I was drunk and put down 1 large when I was stoned.

Solice Kirsk
Jun 1, 2004

.
I plan on spending my LTC on Amazon in the form of solid gold jewelry in 4 months once the price has gone up 2000%.

Burt Sexual
Jan 26, 2006

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Switchblade Switcharoo

Solice Kirsk posted:

I plan on spending my LTC on Amazon in the form of solid gold jewelry in 4 months once the price has gone up 2000%.

Can I have a baller bracelet of questionable lead composition?

eonwe
Aug 11, 2008



Lipstick Apathy
i knpw someone who took out a loan for bitcoin

communist kangaroo
Oct 2, 2006

those are my principles, and if you don't like them...well, i have koalas.

eonwe posted:

i knpw someone who took out a loan for bitcoin

how is that going

Solice Kirsk
Jun 1, 2004

.

Burt Sexual posted:

Can I have a baller bracelet of questionable lead composition?

I shall buy for you one of these.

eonwe
Aug 11, 2008



Lipstick Apathy

communist kangaroo posted:

how is that going

i guess at the moment he is up like about anyone

seems like a bad idea to me tho

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Solice Kirsk
Jun 1, 2004

.

eonwe posted:

i guess at the moment he is up like about anyone

seems like a bad idea to me tho

Tell him to liquidate however much to pay down the debt and then ride the bubble with just his gains.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply