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Inescapable Duck posted:Maybe you should look up how it works. Suffice to say there is not even any equivalent of that happening. We are talking about Alabama, do you seriously think that black precincts will not be denied ballots?
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Dec 12, 2017 08:37
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Democrazy posted:The Democratic Party decides through their voters. Citation needed, specifically irt to the 2016 DNC primary.
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Dec 12, 2017 10:49
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Kokoro Wish posted:Here. have some stuff from the DNC Unity Reform Comission public meeting: When this poo poo is laid bare it makes you even more angry.
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Dec 12, 2017 14:01
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karthun posted:We are talking about Alabama, do you seriously think that black precincts will not be denied ballots? It's the part where you throw people in prison for not voting that they're disputing not the part where Republicans will attempt to suppress the vote.
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Dec 12, 2017 14:08
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sirtommygunn posted:It's the part where you throw people in prison for not voting that they're disputing not the part where Republicans will attempt to suppress the vote. Also yeah, election day as a holiday doesn't go far enough. I had to trade shifts with someone to vote in 2016 because 7a-8p with a commute doesn't really make it feasible to vote. Both it and mail-in voting would be great.
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Dec 12, 2017 14:23
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Voting day-of is so passé. No-excuse absentee, early vote with sites in easily accessible locations (supermarkets, libraries), and absentee drop off, like they do in Iowa. Best of all worlds.
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Dec 12, 2017 17:42
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poopinmymouth posted:Citation needed, specifically irt to the 2016 DNC primary. Hillary won by like 2.5 million votes.
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Dec 12, 2017 17:46
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It's not even an issue of whether or not they get punished, it's just hilarious that we apparently can't directly confront the white supremacists who are shutting minorities out of the political process, but apparently we can successfully get them through the back door by criminalizing their victims.Inescapable Duck posted:So that it becomes a crime to prevent them voting. How are you even supposed to "make it illegal to prevent someone from voting"? It's not like Republicans are bouncing anyone who fails the paper bag test out of polling places (I'm fairly sure this is already illegal); are you going to legally mandate that Alabama never close a DMV? Are you going to make it illegal for Republican Presidents to stack the courts such that they gut voting protections for minorities? Are you going to make it illegal for cops to be near polling places? Additionally, I'm no expert on Australian elections, but a quick Google tells me that indigenous Australian voter registration is around 50% and that only about 50-60% of enrolled indigenous people actually vote. Why should we expect anything but a similar massive discrepancy in white vs black voter turnout in America?
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Dec 12, 2017 17:46
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I live in a congressional district of a cable company stooge. He's like many congressmen in that he really doesn't give a poo poo about petitions, town halls, public opinion, etc--if he doesn't win re-election he can make 500k a year working for his old pals in cable. Is there anything that can be done about this? Have any other countries developed ways of curbing legislative capture?
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Dec 12, 2017 17:51
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HootTheOwl posted:Hillary won by like 2.5 million votes. having purchased the organization in charge of performing the primary process, yes
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Dec 12, 2017 18:21
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The shenanigans have begun in this election already: https://twitter.com/rvawonk/status/940512622910361600
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Dec 12, 2017 18:28
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Anyone want to put out their predictions for today's race? I think Moore is the favorite to win, but it's hard to make a case either way using polling data and everything seems pretty up in the air. That said, my feeling is that voters will reject Jones because he hasn't offered them (especially the black voters that will be a crucial element of any Democratic victory) anything of substance. Besides of course, not being a pedophile
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Dec 12, 2017 18:40
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Ze Pollack posted:having purchased the organization in charge of performing the primary process, yes 
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Dec 12, 2017 18:45
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Chomskyan posted:Anyone want to put out their predictions for today's race? I think Moore is the favorite to win, but it's hard to make a case either way using polling data and everything seems pretty up in the air. That said, my feeling is that voters will reject Jones because he hasn't offered them (especially the black voters that will be a crucial element of any Democratic victory) anything of substance. Besides of course, not being a pedophile Moore's going to win. McConnell will censure him upon arrival in the senate. "The people of Alabama have decided" blah blah blah, vote MAGA.
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Dec 12, 2017 18:45
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Chomskyan posted:Anyone want to put out their predictions for today's race? I think Moore is the favorite to win, but it's hard to make a case either way using polling data and everything seems pretty up in the air. That said, my feeling is that voters will reject Jones because he hasn't offered them (especially the black voters that will be a crucial element of any Democratic victory) anything of substance. Besides of course, not being a pedophile we are about to see the most pure imaginable test of a culture war election Moore is offering nothing but I'll Trigger The Libs, Jones is offering nothing but I'm Not A Pedophile. inertia, 'we can't lose the senate,' and massive voter disenfranchisement favors Moore, discontent with the status quo favors jones, we'll see how it plays out
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Dec 12, 2017 18:48
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Chomskyan posted:Anyone want to put out their predictions for today's race? I think Moore is the favorite to win, but it's hard to make a case either way using polling data and everything seems pretty up in the air. That said, my feeling is that voters will reject Jones because he hasn't offered them (especially the black voters that will be a crucial element of any Democratic victory) anything of substance. Besides of course, not being a pedophile I give Jones probably somewhat under 50% chance and mostly disagree with your characterization of why.
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Dec 12, 2017 18:49
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Ze Pollack posted:we are about to see the most pure imaginable test of a culture war election Jones has a lot to offer it's just all been drowned out in the national press because he's broccoli running against a scoville scale pepper It's gonna come.down to how effective voter disenfranchisement has been is my guess.
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Dec 12, 2017 18:51
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the centrist commitment to believing women and poc's evaporation the second donna brazile opened her mouth will never stop being funny.
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Dec 12, 2017 18:52
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Chomskyan posted:Anyone want to put out their predictions for today's race? I think Moore is the favorite to win, but it's hard to make a case either way using polling data and everything seems pretty up in the air. That said, my feeling is that voters will reject Jones because he hasn't offered them (especially the black voters that will be a crucial element of any Democratic victory) anything of substance. Besides of course, not being a pedophile Moore will win due to factors that have nothing to do with either candidate. Republicans have successfully burdened sporadic Democratic voters, and because elections there are usually so non-competitive, there are no institutions or organizations which are sufficiently able to overcome those barriers to vote, particularly since turnout efforts are harder in rural areas, where a lot of these sporadic Democrats live.
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Dec 12, 2017 18:52
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Ze Pollack posted:the centrist commitment to believing women and poc's evaporation the second donna brazile opened her mouth will never stop being funny. If you want to go over this further, send me a PM.
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Dec 12, 2017 18:54
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HootTheOwl posted:If you want to go over this further, send me a PM. But there's a whole thread for us to watch from. THUNDERDOME! THUNDERDOME! THUN-DER-DOME!  Democrazy posted:Moore will win due to factors that have nothing to do with either candidate. Republicans have successfully burdened sporadic Democratic voters, and because elections there are usually so non-competitive, there are no institutions or organizations which are sufficiently able to overcome those barriers to vote, particularly since turnout efforts are harder in rural areas, where a lot of these sporadic Democrats live. They are trying to gently caress them even further by taking away the driver's license testing.
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Dec 12, 2017 18:55
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Ze Pollack posted:the centrist commitment to believing women and poc's evaporation the second donna brazile opened her mouth will never stop being funny. Brazile walked back the claim that the primary system was rigged.
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Dec 12, 2017 18:56
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Jones has a lot to offer it's just all been drowned out in the national press because he's broccoli running against a scoville scale pepper I'd be curious to hear what you think he's offered, and why you think he's received such an apathetic response from the black community
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Dec 12, 2017 19:07
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Fluffdaddy posted:The shenanigans have begun in this election already: That sheds some light. After the election is certified, they'll currently only retain digital copies of Write-In ballots, but they'll still have all paper ballots. If they kept all digital copies like the plaintiffs ask, instead of just write-in digital copies, it would be much easier to FOIA/inspect the whole thing, because it's just downloading files. But if the only record is paper you get to charge reporters/interested parties tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars if they want to examine the full results later.
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Dec 12, 2017 19:11
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Chomskyan posted:I'd be curious to hear what you think he's offered, and why you think he's received such an apathetic response from the black community I'm on my phone right now but "personal record of prosecuting the Klan for murder" is non-trivial. I don't think there's any evidence of apathetic response yet beyond politico-style horserace bullshit articles.
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Dec 12, 2017 19:13
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Devor posted:That sheds some light. between this and the closing of the offices in the black belt, i would hope this would push leftist to start a voting rights war in all of the country, but they will probably just blame the democrats instead Hieronymous Alloy posted:I'm on my phone right now but "personal record of prosecuting the Klan for murder" is non-trivial. Exactly. The 16th street bombing is very important to all of black folks in alabama but it doesn't fit the narrative.
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Dec 12, 2017 19:14
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I'm on my phone right now but "personal record of prosecuting the Klan for murder" is non-trivial. And buried in all those articles is "we still plan to vote for him anyway", which is what the titles DON'T tell you.
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Dec 12, 2017 19:20
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Alter Ego posted:And buried in all those articles is "we still plan to vote for him anyway", which is what the titles DON'T tell you. Even if there is low Jones turnout, voter suppression is so entrenched in Alabama that it's nigh impossible to separate out enthusiasm as a separate variable.
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Dec 12, 2017 19:22
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It also scapegoats black folks instead of asking "why are all these white folks voting for a pedophile and not doing the right thing?" which is what this election and the Presidential election is really about. The national media refuses to hold these people accountable for anything but will sure go after our voting tendencies.
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Dec 12, 2017 19:23
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Fluffdaddy posted:between this and the closing of the offices in the black belt, i would hope this would push leftist to start a voting rights war in all of the country, but they will probably just blame the democrats instead One wonders why it's incumbent on a still small and resource-strapped political movement to "start a voting rights war in all of the country", as opposed to one of the main highly established parties in the country doing the same. Not that doing so wouldn't be a good idea, but this incessant insistence that other people and movements have to do the Dems' work for them seems misguided, to put it mildly.
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Dec 12, 2017 19:26
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Fluffdaddy posted:It also scapegoats black folks instead of asking "why are all these white folks voting for a pedophile and not doing the right thing?" which is what this election and the Presidential election is really about. The national media refuses to hold these people accountable for anything but will sure go after our voting tendencies. Yup. This is going to sound trivializing but I don't mean it that way: one of the biggest things I learned from years playing online MMO's is that if people in the statistical aggregate are doing something untoward, it's because the system has been designed to encourage (or in this instance, discourage) that behavior. Motivation, intelligence, and other individual factors average out. In other words, if people aren't voting there's a reason (something is stopping them). Similarly if people appear to be voting against interest, you probably don't understand their interest (i.e., in the case of white Alabama Republicans, they are more interested in being racist than in *anything* else).
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Dec 12, 2017 19:30
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Cerebral Bore posted:One wonders why it's incumbent on a still small and resource-strapped political movement to "start a voting rights war in all of the country", as opposed to one of the main highly established parties in the country doing the same. Not that doing so wouldn't be a good idea, but this incessant insistence that other people and movements have to do the Dems' work for them seems misguided, to put it mildly. Considering black folks have been having this fight and are much more resource strapped than white leftist, sorry I don't have any pity to give. The Dems HAVE been fighting this for a long time, with legal challenges all over the country. I just don't see leftist who want to consider themselves outside of the dem coalition making the same effort. The DSA is super white in this country and the majority of black folks consider themselves Democrats. Instead of pointing at the Dem establishment, how about some self reflection and figure out why this is. edit: I forgot you arent even American, so I don't even know why I am bothering. Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yup. This is exactly the predicament and why fighting racism should be on the forefront with class warfare instead of its "and also" cousin. Black people are held accountable as an entire bloc of people while white folks get the privilege of disowning their lovely people. Fluffdaddy fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Dec 12, 2017 |
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Dec 12, 2017 19:35
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Fluffdaddy posted:Considering black folks have been having this fight and are much more resource strapped than white leftist, sorry I don't have any pity to give. 
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Dec 12, 2017 19:37
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Fluffdaddy posted:It also scapegoats black folks instead of asking "why are all these white folks voting for a pedophile and not doing the right thing?" which is what this election and the Presidential election is really about. The national media refuses to hold these people accountable for anything but will sure go after our voting tendencies. not emptyquoting.
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Dec 12, 2017 19:39
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not even the racism, tbh. it's a rightfully underinspected part of why the consultant-tested northam-approved "what if we just said Mexicans aren't people?" strategy is incredibly stupid. the total, obvious moral bankruptcy to one side, and even pushing aside "what racist, given the choice between diet and actual racism, goes with diet," you run into something much worse. politics is an exercise in promising voters you will do something for them, in exchange for their vote. it is a transactional system. and for the last twenty years, every facet of the right wing propaganda machine has been centered on selling their voters on the idea that the best thing they can hope for is that their politicians will hurt the people they hate. a politics without a explicit, well-defined enemies to be punished is a politics that will not, does not, and -cannot- ever reach these people.
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Dec 12, 2017 19:41
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Can't go around blaming good, honest, white folks. 
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Dec 12, 2017 19:42
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I'm on my phone right now but "personal record of prosecuting the Klan for murder" is non-trivial. he's also been pushing pretty hard on the "living wage" bullet point and preservation and expansion of the good parts of Obamacare (although he doesn't much like to use the word, he has been castigating the GOP for trying to blow up the system rather than make it better, and some of his nitpicky stuff is reasonably ideologically correct) and equal pay for women and good schools for all kids  regardless of where they live , the siren bit of which is a concept he keeps using and - bear with me here - might have some unstated implications in Alabamasure, he's not a communist, but he's been pretty consistent about pushing some good things he's not offering 'nothing of substance', it just seems that way to less wonky national viewers because as HA noted there's an insane theocratic pedophile elephant in the room
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Dec 12, 2017 19:46
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Mr Hootington posted:Can't go around blaming good, honest, white folks. oh, we can do that most easily. check out our friends in the trump thread any time the subject of the south arises. we proclaim those hillbilly shitkickers a totally lost cause, do some performative wailing about why we can't REACH these KIDS, and if the issue of anybody outside a major metropolitan area who suffers as a result of the democratic party writing them off is raised, we can safely blame minority voters for not getting excited about "but what if the pedophile... WAS BLACK! let's talk means testing" dot campaign. they must be alien creatures, utterly unreachable. because if they weren't, our failure to do anything for their hostages would make us bad people.
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Dec 12, 2017 19:47
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Ze Pollack posted:not even the racism, tbh. it's a rightfully underinspected part of why the consultant-tested northam-approved "what if we just said Mexicans aren't people?" strategy is incredibly stupid. the total, obvious moral bankruptcy to one side, and even pushing aside "what racist, given the choice between diet and actual racism, goes with diet," you run into something much worse. but the entire system is designed as racist since the Founding Fathers, republican or not. The whole country was built on the backs of it and is exploited today on a level much deeper than mere politics. I appreciate the democrats complicity in it as well, but you are just using it as a cudgel to score points instead of examining why the entire political spectrum of people from the far left to the far right has racism problems. But the answer to why is something that POC know the answer to but will never be addressed because it makes the source of the problem feel uncomfortable.
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Dec 12, 2017 19:51
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Fluffdaddy posted:It also scapegoats black folks instead of asking "why are all these white folks voting for a pedophile and not doing the right thing?" which is what this election and the Presidential election is really about. The national media refuses to hold these people accountable for anything but will sure go after our voting tendencies. Nobody is scapegoating anybody. We're just listening to what black people say when someone bothers to give them a microphone. Those who have been interviewed who are going to vote seem mostly motivated by the horror show that is Roy Moore and are pretty lukewarm on Jones. Sure, he prosecuted the KKK... half a century ago. It's not as strong of a stump as he thinks quote:... according to Edward Bowser, a black resident of Birmingham and former columnist at AL.com, that opening message never gave way to a discussion of the issues important to his community. Bowser says he will vote for Jones, but the messaging from the campaign has made him more apathetic about the race. He believes it has had the same effect on other black voters who see themselves as taken for granted. Black people in Alabama have been speaking out about how they feel ignored by Jones, and how they feel abandoned by the Democratic Party. If you think these articles aren't representative of black Alabamans as a whole feel free to post your own. By the way, It could be that Jones wins, and that black people turn out in force because Moore is a such a frightening character. I hope Jones wins. But in my experience people are motivated more by hope for a better life, than by fear of having their already lovely lives upturned.
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Dec 12, 2017 19:54
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