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In my super casual games I've been running tables with Poe/Rey, so I'm just going to keep that when I go to the FLGS and I'm sure I'll discover why it's actually a bad list. But still! I like it and it's fun. Here's hoping Poe doesn't die in TLJ.
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Dec 11, 2017 23:16
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Rey is solid. Poe is solid. So together they're solid. It's probably not tier 1, but nothing wrong with being tier 1.5. 
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Dec 11, 2017 23:20
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Yeahhhhh it's really not amazing but you must also realise that this has been a noted problem since wave 1 with the TIE Advanced, and it's also good to see that they haven't fixed it years and years on. Like does anyone really use the TIE Advanced?? Was it ever good as anything other than the wagon Vader used to get around in pre-crew? The TIE Defender got a lot of love thanks to Vets/TIE Punisher but it's still really weird to see FFG put out yet another TIE which suffers from Advanced syndrome. Maybe my love of interceptors addles my brain but I'm just not quite seeing the point. At least with Gunboats they kind of have the secondary weapon gimmick with SLAM and I can see how that works. They will probably replace my TIE Bombers in epic for capital ship attack.
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Dec 11, 2017 23:22
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It felt like there was a time right after the Raider released with the X1 and ATC upgrades where Vader was good and everywhere.
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Dec 11, 2017 23:47
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There was. He's still good now, but basically as a PS11 missile boat. With the Silencer, I'm a little disappointed, but I can't really blame them too much for overpricing such a good dial with System slot. It had the potential to be obscenely good. Even as it is, I think it's not at pre-buff Defender or Advanced levels of awful, but it could have stood to be a little more interesting - maybe a bullseye arc, and a title giving it an extra die in the bullseye arc if it's done 0 or 1 repositioning move this round.
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Dec 11, 2017 23:56
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People are winning regionals with Vader
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Dec 12, 2017 00:12
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Put it this way, last time they released ships with native green turns, they immediately became the most broken list in the meta at the time - Parattani has the three most recent native-green-turn ships, and none of those has System... I don't really blame them for being a little gunshy.
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Dec 12, 2017 00:16
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I’d argue that parattani is more about Latts and mindlink than green turns.
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Dec 12, 2017 00:28
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I had low key pegged the Silemcer to be good which is bad because whatever I like and think should be good is always the most terrible option.
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Dec 12, 2017 01:24
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Recoome posted:I had low key pegged the Silemcer to be good which is bad because whatever I like and think should be good is always the most terrible option. I think the Silencer is really average against the Wookiee meta. If health values were a little lower, it'd be just fine, but it just costs a bit too much to really deal with beefy lists. ConfusedUs posted:I’d argue that parattani is more about Latts and mindlink than green turns. And going back to this, I think Latts needs to be 1/round at her current price point.
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Dec 12, 2017 02:29
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ConfusedUs posted:I’d argue that parattani is more about Latts and mindlink than green turns. Mindlink was a dead card until Scum got green turns in both directions on ships.
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Dec 12, 2017 03:38
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Devlan Mud posted:Mindlink was a dead card until Scum got green turns in both directions on ships. Yeah, I remember this thread declaring it DOA when the Jumpmaster was new
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Dec 12, 2017 03:42
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Improbable Lobster posted:Yeah, I remember this thread declaring it DOA when the Jumpmaster was new I don't think it was the addition of green turns that suddenly made it good. It was more about getting efficient ships that needed additional action redundancy. Freeing a shadowcaster to take an evade (while still having a focus) was amazing. Fenn Rau could get PTL-like double actions for 1 point. Jumpmasters frankly don't need more than one action. Etc etc. In wave 8, when the card came out, your options were: Jumpmaster, G-1A, K-Fighter (lol), Trandoshan Slaver (Bossk only, and lol), Syck (lol), Starviper (lol), Y-Wing (Kavil only, and lol), or Z95s (lol in the torpedo boat meta). The only mindlink list from that grouping that ever did well was 3x G-1As + Kaato Leeachos, and that was in one single regional where it won by literally fortressing up in the corner for the final. Mindlink torpedo boats did well eventually, but only after the Deadeye nerf (and Deadeye was just better in every way for that list) Once Fenn Rau came out, there was finally an efficient ship that needed tokens: the idea mindlink carrier. People started experimenting with mindlink almost immediately. Fenn + Teroch + Scout, Fenn + Zuckuss + Scout, Fenn + Palob + Asajj, and eventually Parattani. In none of those cases were green turns required to make Mindlink good. The scout and Asajj really don't care much about which way they're pointing. It was always about having two ships that were hard to kill, hit like trucks, and were guaranteed their focuses by a third ship that really didn't care where it was or what way it was pointing.
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Dec 12, 2017 04:10
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In the right hands the silencer is good. Saw it take out a Chewie and 2 Wookiee list and both players are consistently in the top cut of regionals. I just think the skill level needed to make it work is pretty drat high. If people try to knock out Kylo early he drops ISYTDS and then has the dial to stay out of arc until it goes off. I can't pull it off consistently yet, but I have seen first hand what it can do. Most players seem to ignore him and try to clear out the rest of the list first because they don't want to chase him while getting ioned or constantly take crits from the two lists I posted. However, most other lists are easier to fly and are more forgiving which when it comes down to it will always be better. One bad mistake with Kylo is going to put you in an unwinable position. Raged fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Dec 12, 2017 |
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Dec 12, 2017 04:20
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So I ran this twice today: 2-ship Imperial (99) •Kylo Ren (48) - TIE Silencer Push The Limit (3), Sensor Jammer (4), Primed Thrusters (1), •First Order Vanguard (2), Stealth Device (3) •Major Stridan (51) - Upsilon-class Shuttle Sensor Jammer (4), •General Hux (5), Mercenary Copilot (2), Advanced Optics (2), Sensor Cluster (2), •Kylo Ren's Shuttle (2), Ion Projector (2) It’s a fun list, and they’re annoyingly hard to hit with the Sensor Jammers. It’s hella expensive, but it feels like there’s a touch of potential there. I tried the Threat Tracker in the first game, but it was a touch underwhelming (especially with stress from PtL). It’s expensive, but drat if it isn’t fun.
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Dec 12, 2017 04:23
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I was thinking about a list like that, because Advanced Optics and Sensor Cluster is really funny together with Sensor Jammer. I don't know about Sensor Jammer on Kylo, but I think you're onto something. Can we do Fleet Officer instead of Hux? It's 2 points cheaper and mostly does the same thing.
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Dec 12, 2017 06:00
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ConfusedUs posted:Rey is solid. Poe is solid. So together they're solid. It's probably not tier 1, but nothing wrong with being tier 1.5. I guess Poe is good enough now, that I can replace Horton in my Rey list? Cool!
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Dec 12, 2017 18:48
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Do you guys know of any companies that sell anti-slip inserts for X-wing bases? Or have you guys made any yourselves?
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Dec 12, 2017 19:48
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Devlan Mud posted:Mindlink was a dead card until Scum got green turns in both directions on ships. The only reason it wasn't broken as poo poo from day 1 was that Deadeye was better. Icon Of Sin posted:So I ran this twice today: Big trouble I see with this is that Stridan probably only gets one useful shot against most lists, so you're trying to kill e.g. Regen Poe with one 3 die shot per round. it's just not goign to work.
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Dec 12, 2017 20:04
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Partial Octopus posted:Do you guys know of any companies that sell anti-slip inserts for X-wing bases? Or have you guys made any yourselves? I used rubber washers. Works okay.
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Dec 12, 2017 21:25
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Partial Octopus posted:Do you guys know of any companies that sell anti-slip inserts for X-wing bases? Or have you guys made any yourselves? The options I've seen are using a grip material (like a grippy shelf liner or rubber washer) or just adding weight to the bases. Of the two, I think adding weight is the better solution. The shelf liner stuff gets annoying when you have the ship on top of obstacles, templates, or bomb tokens. It also cannot slide when you are lining up straight bumps. That said, even though adding weight is better I've never felt like I wanted to do it.
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Dec 12, 2017 21:37
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The tie silencer is amazing fun to fly but too expensive and doesn’t do the damage that warrants including it in tourney lists. The 4 gunboat list was fun as well but I think it’s tricky to fly well. Gonna need more practice with it, it doesn’t really fly like anything I’ve played before.
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Dec 12, 2017 21:38
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ConfusedUs posted:I don't think it was the addition of green turns that suddenly made it good. It was more about getting efficient ships that needed additional action redundancy. Freeing a shadowcaster to take an evade (while still having a focus) was amazing. Fenn Rau could get PTL-like double actions for 1 point. Jumpmasters frankly don't need more than one action. Etc etc. Same deal with Manaroo. Dengaroo was a thing of course, but Protectorate Fighters and Shadowcaster finally gave Manaroo both sources of reliable focus and targets for buff transfers. There was a long period for Scum where Jumpmasters were obscenely overpowered and everything else was subpar competitively.
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Dec 12, 2017 22:31
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Well I've gone and found a tournament I can make so now I'm heading down to Weekend Warlords in Loughborough on 7th January for what is technically my second tournament. I'm suddenly nervous as hell as they are quite a competitive club. Frankly my aim is to win one game if I can. So now I need to build a list, does anyone know if any of the list builders have updated for Waves XII and XIII yet?
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Dec 12, 2017 23:09
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EdBlackadder posted:Well I've gone and found a tournament I can make so now I'm heading down to Weekend Warlords in Loughborough on 7th January for what is technically my second tournament. I'm suddenly nervous as hell as they are quite a competitive club. Frankly my aim is to win one game if I can. Nearly all of them have. Best advice: fly what you're comfortable with. Being good with list is usually more valuable than a list being good.
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Dec 12, 2017 23:10
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ConfusedUs posted:Nearly all of them have. +1 to this. Piggybacking on this, don't try to list-build around what you are afraid of seeing at a tournament. Chances are good that you won't even run into it, and even if you do, your chances are better at winning the other 5 games you play that day by playing what you've practiced.
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Dec 12, 2017 23:29
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ConfusedUs posted:Nearly all of them have. ...but my favourite list is triple interceptors.
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Dec 12, 2017 23:32
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TheCenturion posted:...but my favourite list is triple interceptors. And flown well you'd go like 4-2 unless you got really bad matchups. With really GOOD matchups you could make the cut.
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Dec 12, 2017 23:33
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ConfusedUs posted:Nearly all of them have. Yeah that's sensible advice which is why I've been playing double Bomber Double Aggressors recently! But not often enough alas. So its that, Defenders + OL or I start rocking Gunboats which seems like a pretty short term solution.
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Dec 12, 2017 23:38
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EdBlackadder posted:Yeah that's sensible advice which is why I've been playing double Bomber Double Aggressors recently! But not often enough alas. So its that, Defenders + OL or I start rocking Gunboats which seems like a pretty short term solution. If you have an intersection of a list archetype that you have a lot of experience with and plays pretty similarly, don't be afraid to swap in new tech. An example I can think of is a local guy who is great at brobots, who recently was wrecking with a Dengar/Ketsu list because hey, two large based ships that want the enemy in their firing arc is a lot like brobots. Or another guy who's a TIE Swarm/A-Wing Swarm wiz that did a TIE bomber+unguided rockets+LWF swarm. The things that make the TIE Swarm work are the same things that make the bombers work.
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Dec 12, 2017 23:50
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ConfusedUs posted:Nearly all of them have. In order, the decision tree for me is the following: 1: Do I have fun with it? 2: Have I had enough practice with it? 3: Is it actually good? 4: How many bad matchups does it have, and how bad are they? 5: Have I painted/modded it in some way? If the answers to all these are favourable I'll be playing it seriously, if more than two of them are unfavourable, it's in the junk pile most likely, though I'll probably stick with it for far longer than I should.
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Dec 12, 2017 23:56
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In keeping with my 2-ship Imperial fixation, I tried this tonight: 2-ship (98) •Test Pilot "Blackout" (43) - TIE Silencer Push The Limit (3), Advanced Sensors (3), Primed Thrusters (1), •First Order Vanguard (2), Stealth Device (3) •Kylo Ren (55) - Upsilon-class Shuttle Snap Shot (2), Sensor Jammer (4), •General Hux (5), Mercenary Copilot (2), Advanced Optics (2), Sensor Cluster (2), •Kylo Ren's Shuttle (2), Ion Projector (2) Managed to trigger Blackout’s ability once, but the real value was in the PtL/AS combo. Primed Thrusters meant that I could always roll or boost, either off of a Coordination action or an AS action if I were somehow still stressed from the previous round. My next list with a Silencer will probably have Backdraft/QuickDraw alongside it, but I think this is the final build for the Silencer. Kylo is too expensive and relies on getting hit to trigger the condition, but Blackout can be triggered almost whenever and for 4 points cheaper than Kylo, it’s a no-brainer.
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Dec 13, 2017 03:43
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Ello Asty (30) Intensity (2) Flight-Assist Astromech (1) Integrated Astromech (0) Black One (1) Ezra Bridger (Sheathipede) (17) Elusiveness (2) Weapons Engineer (3) M9-G8 (3) Captain Rex (14) Jess Pava (25) "Chopper" (Astromech) (1) Primed Thrusters (1) Integrated Astromech (0) Total: 100 View in Yet Another Squad Builder Intensity Ello and Elusiveness Ezra stolen from this very thread! Thanks canyoneer and ConfusedUs. Ran this list this evening against a Lok Revenant/Jostero/Dalan Oberos (Kimogila) list. We both set up our asteroids in the middle of the table, tightly clustered, which made it much easier to keep Jess, Rex, and Ezra together going up one side of the table. Ello stuck around nearby for an M9-G8 target lock from Ezra, then took off into the asteroids to bait my opponent's ships. We were both running new ships and so we were pretty clumsy with them, but my bait ended up working and my friend's ships got tied up in the asteroids. Ello slipped out of the asteroid field to come back around at the same time as my other ships were finishing their approach. We didn't get to finish our game, but I really love this list, especially Ello Asty's build. He managed to shed off four target locks over the course of the game (two in one turn!). It could probably use a bit of tweaking, maybe replacing Jess with something else or reconfiguring her loadout (I was working with what I had), but I like the idea of Jess being super stubborn with her rerolls, Chopper, and Integrated Astromech.
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Dec 13, 2017 06:12
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Baron Fuzzlewhack posted:Ello Asty (30) That looks awesome. Another fun variant would be swapping Ello for Snap Wexley plus Primed Thrusters, especially since his boost and FAA trigger at the same time and you can resolve them in any order.
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Dec 13, 2017 06:35
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I recently started looking into a way to avoid "lost" tokens as a way to improve list-wide action efficiency. In other words: if a ship takes a focus or evade token, but never uses it, was that action wasted? Did it provide any benefit to your list? I feel that it *is* a waste. Didn't take me long to realize that Swarm Leader is a really, really good upgrade to avoid lost tokens. It's traditionally an Imperial upgrade, but...what if it doesn't have to be? To make it work, all you really need is heavy offensive modification on a platform that won't die easily. This lead me to Swarm Leader...Lowhhrick? With Maul and Ezra crew. My first attempt was pairing him with Tank Rey https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Rebel%20Alliance&d=v4!s!201:220,-1,200,63:2:27:U.128,m.12;251:219,165,250:-1:-1:&sn=Rey%20%2B%20Low&obs= Results were really promising, and I'd feel comfortable taking this list to a regional. It's better than Rey + Rebel in most matchups. However, I felt that there were too many turns where I wasn't getting use of Swarm Leader because they were shooting at Rey. Then a friend took it a step further, and hooooooly shiiiit. https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f...m%20Leader&obs= No token ever goes to waste. It's deceptively fast (even Low has a 5-forward). It doesn't have to fly in formation. It's got a late-game points fortress in Corran. All the ships are fairly hard to kill, with Rex being the only one likely to go down turn one to focus fire. And it throws a ton of red dice: Corran and Low hit like trucks with lots of dice and hefty modification. I'm going to be testing this heavily online, and I may just have to buy a goddamned E-Wing.
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Dec 13, 2017 19:56
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Rules question: Extra Munitions says that you MAY discard the munitions token instead of the upgrade card when using an effect that discards it. If you choose to discard the card instead of the token, does the token disappear/stop working, or is it effectively a second copy of the card (that gets discarded instead of flipped down)? Follow up: The main question of this is; if I have Scavenger Crane and Extra Munitions, can I just keep discarding the CARD (to get it back with the crane) and save the token for an emergency, or will dropping the card before the token just rob me of a use?
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Dec 13, 2017 20:28
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The token goes away when the card goes away.
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Dec 13, 2017 20:29
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Welp, so much for that build.
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Dec 13, 2017 20:34
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This is my basis for a rebel swarm leader list. You have to fly in formation, but it's a blast. Lots of room to customize or add a fourth ship. Some ideas are putting in snap shot on the A wings with a Ion turret Y-wing, or dropping down the points on the A-wings to put in another T-70 Ace. Green Squadron Pilot (19) Juke (2) A-Wing Test Pilot (0) Green Squadron Pilot (19) Juke (2) A-Wing Test Pilot (0) Jess Pava (25) R2-D6 (1) Swarm Leader (3) Total: 71 View in Yet Another Squad Builder
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Dec 13, 2017 20:41
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Seldom Posts posted:This is my basis for a rebel swarm leader list. You have to fly in formation, but it's a blast. Lots of room to customize or add a fourth ship. Some ideas are putting in snap shot on the A wings with a Ion turret Y-wing, or dropping down the points on the A-wings to put in another T-70 Ace. Green Squadron Pilot (19) Juke (2) Chardaan Refit (-2) Crack Shot (1) Autothrusters (2) A-Wing Test Pilot (0) Jess Pava (25) R2-D6 (1) Sensor Cluster (2) Swarm Leader (3) Integrated Astromech (0) Green Squadron Pilot (19) Juke (2) Chardaan Refit (-2) Crack Shot (1) Autothrusters (2) A-Wing Test Pilot (0) Green Squadron Pilot (19) Juke (2) Chardaan Refit (-2) Crack Shot (1) Autothrusters (2) A-Wing Test Pilot (0) Total: 97 View in Yet Another Squad Builder You could also rip off the ATs and turn one A-Wing into a slim Jake build. Some Numbers fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Dec 13, 2017 |
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Dec 13, 2017 22:27
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