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I am glad Kaladin's return to his hometown wasn't the pity-fest we were all worried about and his depressive episodes didn't last half the novel
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Dec 12, 2017 07:16
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Infinite Karma posted:Shallan is absolutely being intentionally written as a try-hard and not as actually funny. I don't know or care if Sanderson is "capable" of writing humor, but he's not accidentally making the characters in his story react with awkward pauses and eyerolls, they think she's as desperate for approval as we do. Sure, and in my view, there are a number of reasons for which this is an absolutely bizarre stylistic choice.
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Dec 12, 2017 07:36
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ekeog posted:They couldn't be any more explicit that the 'academic who tries to be clever' persona is as much a charade as the rest of them, just created first out of crippling insecurity that someone so broken could be a successful lighteyed woman. If you finished that book and think Shallan-trying-to-be-witty is in any way her authentic self I don't know what to tell you. Infinite Karma posted:Shallan is absolutely being intentionally written as a try-hard and not as actually funny. I don't know or care if Sanderson is "capable" of writing humor, but he's not accidentally making the characters in his story react with awkward pauses and eyerolls, they think she's as desperate for approval as we do. You're actually intended to find Shallan pretty funny, just taking it a bit too far https://www.reddit.com/r/Stormlight_Archive/comments/3dc7xn/wor_on_the_subjects_of_shallan_and_humor/ quote:Shallan's humor is based upon regency "women sit in a circle and trade witty comments" humor, of which Jane Austen was a master. Much of what the OP said in his post is correct--Shallan's fault is that she over-extends. She uses the humor as a coping mechanism, and to her, it doesn't matter if it's actually funny so long as she's stretching toward something more lighthearted than her terrible past. She tries very hard to prove herself. And she fails. Often.
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Dec 12, 2017 07:45
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Unseen wind, Unseen wind, Unseen wind, Unseen wind, Unseen wind, Unseen wind, Unseen wind, Unseen wind, Unseen wind
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Dec 12, 2017 07:58
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BananaNutkins posted:Unseen wind, Unseen wind, Unseen wind, Unseen wind, Unseen wind, Unseen wind, Unseen wind, Unseen wind, Unseen wind Trade Contracts!
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Dec 12, 2017 09:25
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ekeog posted:Another very plot convenient thing is Jasnah just refusing to tell everyone what she knows. Not only has she been sitting on the recreance/voidbringer thing for a while, there's a pretty good chance she's concealing the fact that she has shardplate for some reason, while everyone else is totally confused as to how it works other than it's gated behind a higher oath somehow. What she knows about her situation is not applicable to anyone except other Elsecallers. Anyone who's even to the point where her extra knowledge could be useful already knows what their next step should be, just not how they will personally get there. She's told Shallan about as much as she knows about the Oath progression, except it's even more useless to Shallan because Shallan doesn't swear Oaths beyond the first one.
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Dec 12, 2017 15:29
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:What she knows about her situation is not applicable to anyone except other Elsecallers. Anyone who's even to the point where her extra knowledge could be useful already knows what their next step should be, just not how they will personally get there. She's told Shallan about as much as she knows about the Oath progression, except it's even more useless to Shallan because Shallan doesn't swear Oaths beyond the first one. They just need to grind xp until they level up, it's not rocket surgery
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Dec 12, 2017 17:23
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mewse posted:I am glad Kaladin's return to his hometown wasn't the pity-fest we were all worried about and his depressive episodes didn't last half the novel Yea, but it was entirely pointless.
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Dec 12, 2017 19:11
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BananaNutkins posted:Yea, but it was entirely pointless. Kind of important for his character development to finally close the book on Tien's death, *and* resolve the thing where his father thinks he's a killer because he didn't join the family business
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Dec 12, 2017 19:57
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Not to mention the confrontation with Roshone. That was very satisfying.
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Dec 12, 2017 20:11
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Fezz posted:Not to mention the confrontation with Roshone. That was very satisfying. Yeah it was kinda his coming home from college tour
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Dec 12, 2017 20:23
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mewse posted:They just need to grind xp until they level up, it's not rocket surgery Yeah I mean gently caress, her uncle has a progression that doesn't even involve spren shards at all, and at least two other orders also don't have the same loot progression (Szeth has to get a shardblade from elsewhere, and Shallan got hers with the first Oath sworn). Shallan has to practice some, like, back alley pseudoscience psychotherapist poo poo on herself every single time too (instead of the hero's journey poo poo Kaladin does). This is entirely "journey before destination". VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Dec 12, 2017 |
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Dec 12, 2017 20:33
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:Szeth has to get a shardblade from elsewhere Does he?
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Dec 12, 2017 20:58
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Speaking of Bondsmiths are we to assume the other two bond with some sort of spren version of Cultivation and Odium.
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Dec 12, 2017 21:08
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Ethiser posted:Speaking of Bondsmiths are we to assume the other two bond with some sort of spren version of Cultivation and Odium. One is almost definitely the Nightwatcher and the other is probably the still mysterious 'Sibling' that maybe was the thing that lived in and powered Urithuru. It's probably safe to say that neither are related to Odium, because the whole system of bonding spren pretty much emerged in opposition to him.
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Dec 12, 2017 21:48
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ekeog posted:One is almost definitely the Nightwatcher and the other is probably the still mysterious 'Sibling' that maybe was the thing that lived in and powered Urithuru. Nightwatcher = cultivation? There are 9 unmade, is Odium's largest spren lurking in the everstorm? Disclaimer I am terrible at speculation
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Dec 12, 2017 21:51
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Ethiser posted:Speaking of Bondsmiths are we to assume the other two bond with some sort of spren version of Cultivation and Odium. Highly likely that the other 2 are Nightwatcher (analogous to Cultivation like how Stormfather is to Honor) and Sibling (unknown - there is a theory that Sibling is some kind of 50/50 godspren of both Honor and Cultivation since the equivalent godspren for Odium are the Unmade and there are 9 of them) . Edit: beaten! That shows me for trying to phone post. Ok well to add: another theory that one of those godspren, most likely the Sibling, is needed to power Urithiru properly, based on one of the gemstone records left behind . The 9th Unmade I think is Dai-howeveritsspelled/the Black Fisher that no one really knows what it can do. Leng fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Dec 12, 2017 |
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Dec 12, 2017 21:53
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Habibi posted:Does he? Seems so. Szeth's instantly up to the 3rd Ideal of his order already and he has to use Nightblood, and he's never even had any actual one-on-one time with his spren. We've seen that Nale has sworn the 5th Ideal, but he still uses an Honorblade. I mean, we could be in some kind of misunderstanding by omission scenario here, but I think Highspren just don't do that. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Dec 12, 2017 |
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Dec 12, 2017 22:00
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mewse posted:Nightwatcher = cultivation? It seems like Stormfather is to Honor (before he died) as Nightwatcher is to Cultivation. Nowadays the SF is a lot more powerful because he absorbed a lot of Honor's poo poo, and we don't really know what the NW would be like if someone bonded her. She's obviously very strong but it's a whole different can of worms since her entire thing is monkey's paw wish-with-a-Price kind of deals. Edit: like, in that flashback where Dalinar meets her she's a loving terrifying spirit that's hard to imagine being a helpful companion, . eke out fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Dec 12, 2017 |
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Dec 12, 2017 22:07
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Wasn’t there a rumor going around that Honor and Cultivation were together? I wonder if that’s where the Sibling comes from.
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Dec 12, 2017 22:38
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MildShow posted:Wasn’t there a rumor going around that Honor and Cultivation were together? I wonder if that’s where the Sibling comes from. Cutest couple -3000BC to 2017
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Dec 12, 2017 22:44
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:Seems so. Szeth's instantly up to the 3rd Ideal of his order already and he has to use Nightblood, and he's never even had any actual one-on-one time with his spren. We've seen that Nale has sworn the 5th Ideal, but he still uses an Honorblade. Well, Szeth's spren Doesn't talk much. Not sure if that's a highspren thing or what. Szeth also rapidly leveled up, so maybe the spren is still getting oriented and sapient. Nale DID show a 'regular' live shardblade along with his Honorblade, so they DO get them. It's also possible that they get them later in their oaths, 4th or 5th. Or maybe Szeth just hasn't tried since he already has a chatty instrument of Bloody Mass Murder. Actually, that could be another reason why his spren is quiet--probably scared cognitively shitless by Nightblood.
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Dec 12, 2017 23:33
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:Seems so. Szeth's instantly up to the 3rd Ideal of his order already and he has to use Nightblood, and he's never even had any actual one-on-one time with his spren. We've seen that Nale has sworn the 5th Ideal, but he still uses an Honorblade. Szeth didn't speak the Third Ideal until after the fight at the city so he didn't have access to a shardblade for the fight. He should get access to one now (or soon once his spren actually makes itself known to him) but he did not have access to one for the fight itself. He might never get one because odds are his spren (and all spren) will be afraid to get near him while he has Nightblood. There's a non-zero chance that Nightblood would consume (or otherwise feed on) the spren if Szeth used both blades at the same time and ran low on stormlight.
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Dec 12, 2017 23:48
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:Seems so. Szeth's instantly up to the 3rd Ideal of his order already and he has to use Nightblood, and he's never even had any actual one-on-one time with his spren. We've seen that Nale has sworn the 5th Ideal, but he still uses an Honorblade. This seems like a serious of enormous assumptions.
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Dec 13, 2017 00:12
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Habibi posted:This seems like a serious of enormous assumptions. That's as perhaps, but the overall point of the original post to that one stands.
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Dec 13, 2017 05:07
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Skybreakers seem different to other orders in regards to Shardblade access and there is a WoB that says there different orders receive Shardblades at different levels. Remember Helaran professed to be a Skybreaker and after OB I think he was still a hopeful, not a squire, since he didn't use any surges and apparently a dead blade (since the Skybreakers were the only order to not break their oaths) that Amaram took. I think it was a dead blade because live sprenblades survive the death of their Radiant and presumably return to Shadesmar if the Radiant kept their oaths. And so Szeth may not have a sprenblade until he completed the Fourth Ideal of Crusade. I suppose shardplate must come with the Fifth Ideal since Nale is the only one who has mastered that.
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Dec 13, 2017 05:50
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Leng posted:Skybreakers seem different to other orders in regards to Shardblade access and there is a WoB that says there different orders receive Shardblades at different levels. I think you're right about Skybreakers being different as a whole - they're the only other 'high' spren akin to honor, but seem to be even weirder. We may not be getting any info on what kind of strange arrangement they have with their spren because it'd give away too much future plot. I mean, not only did they keep it alive in secret for centuries after the genocide of all other radiant spren, but they've actively collaborated in hunting down and murdering every potential radiant they could find for that period.
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Dec 13, 2017 06:00
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Infinite Karma posted:Shallan is absolutely being intentionally written as a try-hard and not as actually funny. I don't know or care if Sanderson is "capable" of writing humor, but he's not accidentally making the characters in his story react with awkward pauses and eyerolls, they think she's as desperate for approval as we do. nobody does this, they just say how witty she is
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Dec 13, 2017 17:55
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Law Cheetah posted:nobody does this, they just say how witty she is You should do a reread.
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Dec 13, 2017 20:05
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Law Cheetah posted:nobody does this, they just say how witty she is No one does this.
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Dec 13, 2017 20:07
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Law Cheetah posted:nobody does this, they just say how witty she is Jasnah and Kaladin for sure call her out on her bad jokes, and I don't think they are the only ones. I vaguely remember Adolin saying/thinking something about it, but thinks it's just part of her quirky charm. I could be wrong about that one, though.
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Dec 13, 2017 20:09
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Proteus Jones posted:No one does this. wrong
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Dec 13, 2017 21:15
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even when Jasnah is "calling out" shallan, its for being too loose with her quips. nobody ever tells her that they're painfully stupid in the first place.
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Dec 13, 2017 21:24
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Law Cheetah posted:even when Jasnah is "calling out" shallan, its for being too loose with her quips. nobody ever tells her that they're painfully stupid in the first place. Jasnah routinely calls her out for using a bludgeon where an <insert more delicate instrument> would do, but as I noted in my original complaint, the one time we see Jasnah jet loose with her trademark wit, it's a bad "your mom" joke. And she gets flustered with herself for resorting to a "your mom" joke, but the real problem was simply that the joke wasn't funny, which is what leads me to suspect that on those occasions when Sanderson achieves real comedy, such as with Lightsong, it's mostly by accident.
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Dec 13, 2017 21:50
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Is it his Mormonism that prevents him from writing anything remotely sexual? I think Shallon trying to summon a shame spren was the closest I’ve read.
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Dec 13, 2017 22:30
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gohmak posted:Is it his Mormonism that prevents him from writing anything remotely sexual? I think Shallon trying to summon a shame spren was the closest I’ve read. Ah yes, her bare hand was quite erotic
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Dec 13, 2017 22:32
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Habibi posted:Jasnah routinely calls her out for using a bludgeon where an <insert more delicate instrument> would do, but as I noted in my original complaint, the one time we see Jasnah jet loose with her trademark wit, it's a bad "your mom" joke. And she gets flustered with herself for resorting to a "your mom" joke, but the real problem was simply that the joke wasn't funny, which is what leads me to suspect that on those occasions when Sanderson achieves real comedy, such as with Lightsong, it's mostly by accident. How did you determine that Sanderson meant it to be funny? How funny do you think he meant it to be?
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Dec 13, 2017 23:13
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ekeog posted:One is almost definitely the Nightwatcher and the other is probably the still mysterious 'Sibling' that maybe was the thing that lived in and powered Urithuru. It's probably safe to say that neither are related to Odium, because the whole system of bonding spren pretty much emerged in opposition to him. Regarding that one - I'm wondering if it's in the volcano that someone's science report was talking about - I think it was right before Renarin opened the drawers, someone was talking about some heat anomaly in one mountain in a range.
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Dec 14, 2017 07:29
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gohmak posted:Is it his Mormonism that prevents him from writing anything remotely sexual? I think Shallon trying to summon a shame spren was the closest I’ve read. Yea, though he's been trying to push himself in this regard - in the last alloy of law book in particular.
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Dec 14, 2017 08:13
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gohmak posted:Is it his Mormonism that prevents him from writing anything remotely sexual? I think Shallon trying to summon a shame spren was the closest I’ve read. https://www.reddit.com/r/Mistborn/comments/4bnuxt/spoilers_up_to_bom_romance_sex_and_chastity_in/d1bd5ma/ quote:Storytime. When I was working on Mistborn 2 with my editor, he asked me, "Are Vin and Elend sleeping together?" I said, "Absolutely." He requested some confirmation of it on the page, and I explained something that has always been my policy, and one that has served me well.
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Dec 14, 2017 09:15
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