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Turtlicious posted:I'm right in thinking the ocean is super loving cold right? Like it would be trivial to run the ocean through bits you'd want to keep cool? Oh, nononono. They seem to want you to take he thing into the lava caves where it's too deep to bring the seamoth. Having it dependent on outside temperature for not catching on fire won't end well.
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Dec 11, 2017 08:16
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gnoma posted:One big caveat is that I never build or do anything with the Cyclops. It doesn't have a real purpose and is a big waste of time. The game plays way better if you just forget it exists. That's a pretty lovely place for an aspect of the game they expect you to make use of to be at, honestly.
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Dec 11, 2017 08:19
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Dongattack posted:Subnautica turned out to be the prime example for me of a early access game that got developed in a circlejerk echochamber of people screaming "reeeeEEE reeeEEEEALISM" and "make it harder, more frustrating!". And then for some reason they catered to those people. That's an odd complaint, what is too realistic in it? You easily survive being chewed by biggest of sea monsters by applying a medkit, don't have to build buildings one log at a time, don't suffer from sickness and have plentiful food and water. Among survival games Subnautica definitely favors exploration gameplay over the pointless realism.
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Dec 11, 2017 08:32
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subnautica is kind of unrealistic in that water is really good at conducting heat away, and the ocean is so vast that stuff like volcanic vents are only really hot like really pretty close to them, which is why all the tube worms and poo poo grow right on them. nuclear subs irl use seawater as coolant for their reactors
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Dec 11, 2017 08:32
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gnoma posted:The saves from complete playthroughs I've done on recent updates are topping out around 115mb-130mb. I use it for storage and to move the prawn around, because the prawn is even slower and more awkward to use with the complicated sea terrain and I really don't want to take the thing 1400 meters to get to a distant area The cylops' big drawback is already how slow and awkward it is to just get from point A to B, so I don't know why they decided they needed to put in so much effort to make it even less exciting. (to be fair, they may have been trying to make it more exciting by making driving it forward cause fires and psytrance music) It feels like something I use just to make gathering resources tolerable, unlike the seamoth which I would use absolutely everywhere if it wasn't unable to survive at the depth of this lava zone where I still need to go. The cyclops is the one major part of the gameplay that feels wrong to me. I don't really think the game shows too many signs of catering to the git gud crew otherwise.
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Dec 11, 2017 08:41
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Pyromancer posted:That's an odd complaint, what is too realistic in it? You easily survive being chewed by biggest of sea monsters by applying a medkit, don't have to build buildings one log at a time, don't suffer from sickness and have plentiful food and water. Among survival games Subnautica definitely favors exploration gameplay over the pointless realism. They mean the Faux Realism (see also "It's LORE friendly!") that only gets brought up so long as it's a detriment to the player, then gets thrown under the bus once realism adds to QoL rather than remove it. You see it from here, elite Dangerous, DnD, to literal theme park simulators, etc. Because on the surface, it looks like the perfect artistic integrity reasoning. But it's incredibly cherry picked in where it is ever applied be it a Dev or Player talking about it. Even the most realistic game, is only as realistic as the game mechanics the developer wants, or can manage to implement. Sharks are supposed to be always on aggro because it's realistic and lore friendly! But wanting to collect stalker teeth by way of knife fighting them to death like the in game lore data pads say the Degasi survivors did means you should go back to CoD. Etc. Perceived values of what makes you look more hardcore or not are what are the real reasoning half the time. Lantern fruit had a ton of drawbacks even before it got nerfed to raw seaweed values. You had to find floater island to get it, then unlock planters, then build them indoors. Even after that, they result in a 2x2 item that rots within a minute so is useless as a travel food. So it was nice, but only to cut down on UI juggling on return trips to your base or cyclops. But you can "Eat it right off the tree" looks too casual to their gamer lizard brains looking for bragging rights. Meanwhile we still have infinite, portable, high value food and water thanks to the alien containment tank. But you have to stop to throw it on the space BBQ. I also got a heat knife that will flash fry a fish in the lava biomes so I don't need to do any more than hop out of my exosuit for a minute while in the lava castle to feed myself. So even though it's some of the easiest and most convenient food in all survival gaming that's fine and dandy, but holy poo poo better nerf the fruit tree! Then make sure the machine that only gives one bottle of water every 15 minutes drains more power than the rest of your base combined, because it does that without having to push buttons. TL;DR: The problem isn't "Realistic gaming" so much as claims of  "realism" being the scooby doo villain mask upon "I want things MY way! And MY way means whatever gives me more annoyed sane gamers to say I'm more hardcore putting up with it!" *embraces the amorphous blob of nine bonesharks atop a wall-clipping reaper*Worst part is a lot of the time it's not out of malice, but misplaced assurances they are improving everything with their cherry picked views on 'realism'. This is the sort of thing "More realistic = better" does to gamer brains. Where even someone who's idea of a great campaign is turning half of it into a high fantasy trade empire simulator, and does a very good job on it the times anyone has to play, will still go "Whoa, hold on there. Knocking people out with arrows wouldn't be REALISTIC, because they are sharp! Now, how much are you paying the goblins to man the siege catapult to shoot at a dragon?" Section Z fucked around with this message at 09:30 on Dec 11, 2017 |
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Dec 11, 2017 09:01
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Pyromancer posted:That's an odd complaint, what is too realistic in it? You easily survive being chewed by biggest of sea monsters by applying a medkit, don't have to build buildings one log at a time, don't suffer from sickness and have plentiful food and water. Among survival games Subnautica definitely favors exploration gameplay over the pointless realism. I think the devs try and cater to both normal players and people who want the game to be hardcore survival The latter also have literally 300+ hours in an early access game that has always had maybe 10-20 hours of content max. So you get stuff like the already annoying-to-drive cyclops becoming even more of a pain in the rear end to drive with no real challenge added, just busywork and frustration. Or crafting timers because “realistically” something higher tech should take 5 minutes to build (this was once a thing, they changed it to 10 seconds to try and appease the hardcore crowd while still being sane). Part of the problem is there’s only so much in the game and it’s been more than a year with no notable performance improvements, so most of the normal players have left either because they are tired or they are waiting for the game’s release to fix the problems. Dyz fucked around with this message at 09:39 on Dec 11, 2017 |
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Dec 11, 2017 09:37
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Dyz posted:I think the devs try and cater to both normal players and people who want the game to be hardcore survival The latter also have literally 300+ hours in an early access game that has always had maybe 10-20 hours of content max. So you get stuff like the already annoying-to-drive cyclops becoming even more of a pain in the rear end to drive with no real challenge added, just busywork and frustration. Or crafting timers because “realistically” something higher tech should take 5 minutes to build (this was once a thing, they changed it to 10 seconds to try and appease the hardcore crowd while still being sane). I don't think that's really accurate. They made the Cyclop's default speed the same as the previous version flank speed so it's just as fast as ever with no chance of fire. And then they added the recharging overshield which should handle any small scrapes or passing attacks. They also took Bonesharks off the list of fauna that will attack it. Unless you're talking about when they took away the Cyclop's invincibility, the trajectory has been towards making it more convenient. And if you are talking about that, that was in the plans from day 1. One of the first media they ever released was the prototype flooding demo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GukID8fcN_M Which, by the way, is also going to come back at some point. See the trello page. https://trello.com/b/yxoJrFgP/subnautica-development
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Dec 11, 2017 09:52
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Pyromancer posted:That's an odd complaint, what is too realistic in it? You easily survive being chewed by biggest of sea monsters by applying a medkit, don't have to build buildings one log at a time, don't suffer from sickness and have plentiful food and water. Among survival games Subnautica definitely favors exploration gameplay over the pointless realism. Did i say that anything was too realistic? I didn't say anything specific actually, but what i was aiming at was the thing that we talk about a lot itt, which is "taking steps backwards" and making things that were either fine or fun less fun to cater to a certain group of people. Prime example being almost everything done to the Cyclops recently.
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Dec 11, 2017 12:56
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7c Nickel posted:I don't think that's really accurate. They made the Cyclop's default speed the same as the previous version flank speed so it's just as fast as ever with no chance of fire. And then they added the recharging overshield which should handle any small scrapes or passing attacks. They also took Bonesharks off the list of fauna that will attack it. Unless you're talking about when they took away the Cyclop's invincibility, the trajectory has been towards making it more convenient. And if you are talking about that, that was in the plans from day 1. One of the first media they ever released was the prototype flooding demo. That sounds like what I was saying? They did the same thing with crafting timers: tried a more hardcore version and dialed it back to try and make it reasonable. With the cyclops they removed the invincibility and speed, but then dialed back the aggression from certain creatures and gave it more speed plus upgrades to try and make it less of a chore. That seems like trying to appeal to both sides to me.
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Dec 11, 2017 19:16
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They really just need a hardcore version for all these super-survival idiots where your character only has 3 limbs, a gastric bypass, and hyperglycemia. Then return the normal gameplay to realistic consumption where you only need to feed yourself 1-2 times per a day-cycle.
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Dec 11, 2017 20:14
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7c Nickel posted:See the trello page. quote:Player uses general pose (like generic gripping pose) to latch onto a fish and ride along with it. Would need idle animations for various directions so that the player body trails behind the fish swim direction. Possibly a slow, more relaxed, set and a fast set, for when on a fast moving creature. This sounds really neat! Really my only gripe with their design choices right now is making the Cyclops so obnoxious to use. It's supposed to be this endgame vehicle that can go anywhere, do anything, the one thing you can fall back on. But instead it's this monstermagnet that uses powercells faster than anything. I'm 100% confident the modders can fix it tho, if they want to. They seem pretty capable.
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Dec 11, 2017 20:22
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Yea probably but you shouldn't need mods to make your game less lovely. Leave it in the hardcore mode and put toggles into for the casual mode. This isn't hard stuff, just release it already so I can play the full thing and hope they can take time to polish it up later (they won't).
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Dec 11, 2017 20:31
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I think it is very obvious the push for grind spergy annoyance based gameplay features is not driven by the fans but rather by someone on the team. The long crafting timers were absolutely pushed internally and only removed after caving to player feedback and the cyclops was always intended to be garbage and was only ever accidentally useful.
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Dec 11, 2017 20:46
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The cyclops still functions as an infinite food and water producing mass hauler with a internal vehicle bay and on site fabricator. I find invaluable for long expeditions away from base or setting up a new base somewhere else.
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Dec 11, 2017 20:51
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yeah, I prefer to use the Cyclops as a mobile base rather than a vehicle too.
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Dec 11, 2017 21:27
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The problem is you need the Cyclops to ferry the Prawn to the deeper sections for the story since the seamoth won’t dive that deep. Which basically means going through caves and past everything that will attack it or drain it’s power. Unless you want to spend an hour getting there with the Prawn alone. If the seamoth could dive that deep I wouldn’t have nearly as much of a problem with the Cyclops as I do now.
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Dec 11, 2017 21:32
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7c Nickel posted:The cyclops still functions as an infinite food and water producing mass hauler with a internal vehicle bay and on site fabricator. I find invaluable for long expeditions away from base or setting up a new base somewhere else. Yeah, it is definitely essential if you are moving all your crap to a new base, as it lets you move everything in a single trip
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Dec 11, 2017 21:36
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Dyz posted:Unless you want to spend an hour getting there with the Prawn alone. You need to set a breadcrumb trail of beacons if it takes you an hour to get down deep with the prawn. It’s not that long of a trip.
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Dec 11, 2017 21:38
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Thor-Stryker posted:They really just need a hardcore version for all these super-survival idiots where your character only has 3 limbs, a gastric bypass, and hyperglycemia. Nah, it's a diving game, so you should manage refilling the air tank at compressor after every dive, and get nitrogen narcosis if you dive too deep without switching to a proper breathing mix(manufactured in the limited amount of course). And don't forget the realistic decompression sickness if you surface too fast - you were working 5 minutes at 40 meter depth? That's about 2 hours of decompression stops during ascent before you can get back to surface.
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Dec 11, 2017 21:38
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I would kill for some way to dock the Cyclops properly with my base. It just looks so lonely, floating there.
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Dec 11, 2017 23:08
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Digirat posted:the prawn is even slower and more awkward to use with the complicated sea terrain and I really don't want to take the thing 1400 meters to get to a distant area Dyz posted:Unless you want to spend an hour getting there with the Prawn alone. Prawn with the grapple arm is the fastest travel option in the game. You send out the grapple to around max range in front of you, let it start pulling you, then hit space for jump jets and let go of the grapple. The jump jets retain the momentum of the grapple pulling you and add their own speed so you fly across the map. Getting back up fully vertical walls with just grapple arm sucks, but upgraded jump jets change that. They also don't require kyanite anymore so you can make a trip to lost river with a 900m seamoth and reinforced dive suit and pick up the nickel and crystallized sulphur you need to fully ugprade the prawn before ever taking it into the deep cave biomes. Cyclops can still be a safety net for food and storage, but planning out trips ahead of time negates the need for it. Using the thermoblade to insta-cook fish in the water along with a stillsuit will give plenty of food/h2o sustain even if you don't want to put in the minimal effort of making a few cured reginalds and water bottles beforehand. Player inventory + prawn storage has enough space to carry a simple base. I think the only clear benefit of the cyclops is a mobile fabricator, which comes in handy once during the story progression.
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Dec 11, 2017 23:49
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I will say this: Quad jumpjet upgrade prawn is the funnest thing in the game. I really hope they dont make them not stack.
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Dec 12, 2017 02:20
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7c Nickel posted:The cyclops still functions as an infinite food and water producing mass hauler with a internal vehicle bay and on site fabricator. I find invaluable for long expeditions away from base or setting up a new base somewhere else. At least, if you were a bad enough dude to But yeah. I'm hardly stress testing the game as much as I used to. But loading up the game every so often still results in a parked, engines off Cyclops having a sea dragon pull sick 90 degree climb away from it's patrol route to hump it into submission. "I'm not attacking you! I'm not attacking you! I'm just no damage knocking your Cyclops 90 degrees sideways until you hit a rock, floor, or the ceiling and then you catch on fire from that." What a world when I can make the trip TO the containment facility okay (provided a shitload of spare batteries if I'm playing legit), but it's setting my Cyclops on engines off park that is where most of my catastrophic damage comes from these days.
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Dec 12, 2017 02:45
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One of my favourite things that I learned about using the underwater transport gates is that the containment facility is still classified as 1500m underwater so my Seamoth instantly imploded the second I went through.
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Dec 12, 2017 03:17
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Fuego Fish posted:I would kill for some way to dock the Cyclops properly with my base. It just looks so lonely, floating there. It's been in Trello for a couple years. https://trello.com/c/hMdKCmrE/281-magnetic-cyclops-dock-that-charges-cyclops-from-base-power 
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Dec 12, 2017 05:23
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The stupidest thing about the lantern fruit nerf is that you get exactly the same result from melons except you have to knife every fourth one and hope you don't stab a hole in the side of your base in the process.
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Dec 12, 2017 05:29
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Xik posted:It's been in Trello for a couple years. Either way, "X is on the Trello/Roadmap" has become kind of a punchline. You're more likely to hear the devs break up a discussion over base attacks with "Base attacks are NEVER going to happen, because the after 1.0 list is just pipe dreams we won't get to" from the devs, as anything. Which makes every time you see some years old concept with "But it's on the trello!" that much more hard to believe, after two+ years of hearing it. OwlFancier posted:The stupidest thing about the lantern fruit nerf is that you get exactly the same result from melons except you have to knife every fourth one and hope you don't stab a hole in the side of your base in the process. Refer to my overly wordy posts about how the real disconnected is QoL and perceived convenience hurting the hardcore gamer image, over actual results. You can list all the flaws in the world but their brains just short circuit back to "...But you can eat it right off the tree." Which is a 50/50 split between people looking for gamer cred, and people who honestly think that makes it the most broken survival game food of all time. Back to the first subject. Craftable rations have also been on the trello for years. But even if they wanted to, they can't implement them without causing a riot without either making it provide far less than it's input is worth, or nerfing regular foods a lot. Two Reginald take up 2 tiles and are worth 80 food. The usual forums warrior talking about the subject of craftable rations wants stuff like "one of every food object, multiple fish, seaweed, salt, and-" Though I can at least understand the indefinite delay on cyclops docking. When they can't even fully prevent horrible physics disasters trying to get my prawn inside. Docking your cyclops when it's been jostled even a few degrees has resulted in getting it teleported halfway through the rock face of the containment facility. So I'd imagine trying to directly interact with a base would be even more of a coding nightmare. Section Z fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Dec 12, 2017 |
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Dec 12, 2017 05:34
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Base attacks sound like an absolutely awful idea that I would never want in this game, and I'm glad they aren't a feature Related: I went back home after a long trip recently to find my base completely flooded, and it's a big base so it took awhile to find the problem. The culprit was two random holes in the wall of my storage room. I have no idea how that happened 
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Dec 12, 2017 06:28
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Digirat posted:Related: I went back home after a long trip recently to find my base completely flooded, and it's a big base so it took awhile to find the problem. The culprit was two random holes in the wall of my storage room. I have no idea how that happened Maybe stray fire from one of those terminally triggered plants that shoot at everything they see moving.
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Dec 12, 2017 12:42
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I just want the Cyclops to go back to being an invincible mobile base, so I can park it somewhere and have mini-expeditions from it without having to deal with a bunch of stupid bullshit. 
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Dec 12, 2017 14:11
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Well I finally went down to the lava zone and wow, the quality dropped off a cliff. Cyclops stuff has made me roll my eyes but this place felt flat out insulting. It's absolutely teeming with little shits who drain the submarine's power and require going outside into water that constantly hurts you to get rid of them and take 3 thermoblade hits to kill. Something that purely exists to drain its power and annoy you just seems like one more thing that contributes nothing but to make the submarine tedious (trying out the sonar upgrade minutes prior just to find that it drains 1% of its 6-power cell power array per ping didn't exactly put me in the best mindset for this either). I also drilled several giant kyanite crystals into nothing with the prawn, which somehow produced absolutely 0 resources. Eventually I slogged all the way through to find the base and get past the kraken in the front, just to find that the door needs a blue tablet which I have not found anywhere and have no indication of where to get one. I am assuming this base would not have been added to this build if there wasn't a blue tablet to find somewhere, except it could be literally anywhere in the whole world for all I know and I have no motivation to slog all the way back out. The kraken took 5 minutes to even stop camping the doorway out. I may just spawn a tablet in with the console because christ. This part of the game feels extremely unfinished, unlike the rest, and I hope it sees some serious changes. I'm wondering if there are good places to communicate non-bugs to the devs that aren't public forums, because I glanced at some threads on the steam forums and oh dear. At least the majority of the trip down there isn't so bad since UW gratefully made fewer things attack the submarine. I could not imagine doing this if all the eels and sharks and warpers attacked it.
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Dec 13, 2017 08:15
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The reinforced dive suit negates thermal damage up to 70 degrees. The blue tablet is in the alien thermal plant inside the lava castle. Drilling kyanite leaves the crystals on the ground, and they have a bad habit of rolling away.
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Dec 13, 2017 08:21
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Paracelsus posted:The reinforced dive suit negates thermal damage up to 70 degrees.  I thought Kyanite was buggy as hell or I was simply missing where they rolled in the past, but no. They really can just decide you get basically gently caress all.Even if they did get the Blue tablet in the Lava castle, there are two consoles that need blue tablets, but only one tablet. If you don't scan it before you pick it up, and then use it, it's time to go to the console because you can't craft your required key. Which is the more common sticking point I've seen, as no other tablets will pull this sudden swerve on you. Or have they finally made adjustments to automatically add it's recipe when you pick it up? That would be nice. Power wise, last I was crunching numbers it really was obvious even after they fixed the "Not Hyperbole literally 300 minutes" recharge times via dipping your balls in lava with the thermal reactor, they still tune everything around "You have a 6 pack of ion cells". Not on the recharge rates, but rather the fact they can run so much as a sonar for more than a few moments at a time without risking a blackout, let alone your other features. The fanbase loves to bring up your source of infinite ion crystals, but the catch 22 of course is that your infinite supply of ion bits inside the containment facility, which is what you need a bunch of power to reach in the first place for  Crystals are in incredibly limited supply otherwise, so you only have "Plenty" if you are on your foreknowledge repeat playthrough, give or take how many crystals you want to burn for extra purple keycards rather than scavenger hunt for the amount you will need.
Section Z fucked around with this message at 09:51 on Dec 13, 2017 |
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Dec 13, 2017 09:35
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Sadly cyclops just isn't good enough, even though cave sizes allow to drive it in, you'll probably save yourself some nerve cells by just parking it next to cave entrance and taking the prawn suit from there to power plant and containment facility. And then you enable the portals and even using cyclops as the mobile base loses any meaning.
Pyromancer fucked around with this message at 10:17 on Dec 13, 2017 |
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Dec 13, 2017 10:15
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Section Z posted:The fanbase loves to bring up your source of infinite ion crystals, but the catch 22 of course is that your infinite supply of ion bits inside the containment facility, which is what you need a bunch of power to reach in the first place for I don't think the cyclops is too bad off right now really, but keeping it powered is far too annoying and there really needs to be some sort of dock for it you can add to a base or even a cable you manually plug in or something. Or at the very least, drastically cut the power usage of sonar and the like. You've already got the opportunity costs of crafting the modules and the limited slots to put them in anyway. Also it'd be nice to not have it glitch and fly ten kilometers off the map when I try to dock a prawn suit sometimes. Asimo fucked around with this message at 10:39 on Dec 13, 2017 |
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Dec 13, 2017 10:37
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All it really needs is a Power Transmitter module with a switch for Off, Recieve(so it can take in power/be recharged) and Send. being able to power a nearby base off a cyclops temporarily would make it entirely worthwhile when you need to set up a moonpool or something to make a vehicle mod.
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Dec 13, 2017 11:02
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It's a big gently caress-off submarine, it should function as a big gently caress-off submarine. So not get damaged by fish bumping into it, and have enough staying/moving power to stay/move somewhere. The disadvantages should be that it's a bit cumbersome to move, have good straight-line speed but harder to turn and accelerate.
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Dec 13, 2017 11:18
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The atlas mod/independant project thing seems fairly neat, though. Bigger cyclops, basically.
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Dec 13, 2017 11:22
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I still say the Cyclops should have solar panel module or let us build solar panels directly on the sub. Give it a reason to surface once in a while.
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Dec 13, 2017 11:24
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