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NoNostalgia4Grover posted:
This is a totally incoherent post.
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Dec 12, 2017 05:13
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NoNostalgia4Grover posted:Re-check that text you quoted, I was comparing series versus series. Is this your first poem? I'm having trouble working out the metre.
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Dec 12, 2017 05:19
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Bear Sleuth posted:If you change a bunch of this one book it’s better than this other book? The point of his original post is that the Miles Vorkosigan series, while well-written and featuring a character who is not a Mary Sue archetype, is so strongly reminiscent of David Weber's Honor Harrington series -- arguably the worst-written single example of Mary Sue space opera to ever grace the best-seller lists -- that it ruins it for him and makes the Vorkosigan series unreadable despite its merits. If you aren't familiar with exaclty how gobsmackingly horrible the Honor Harrington series is, the analogy wouldn't be clear. When I say "the villain is literally named Rob S. Pierre," I'm only lightly touching on its horrors. Like when Lovecraft points out a monster has fangs but leaves all the other details unmentioned as too horrible to be borne. To read them is to lose part of your mind. NoNostalgia4Grover posted:
He's calling you a fan of David Weber, which is an insult (for the reasons explicated above).
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Dec 12, 2017 05:25
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:The point of his original post is that the Miles Vorkosigan series, while well-written and featuring a character who is not a Mary Sue archetype, is so strongly reminiscent of David Weber's Honor Harrington series -- arguably the worst-written single example of Mary Sue space opera to ever grace the best-seller lists -- that it ruins it for him and makes the Vorkosigan series unreadable despite its merits. To call Miles Vorkosigan gender-flipped Honor Harrington is just 
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Dec 12, 2017 05:28
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Proteus Jones posted:To call Miles Vorkosigan gender-flipped Honor Harrington is just They're sortof polar opposites in every way, but they do share the same basic framework -- space navy mil-sf career series -- and I can understand why reading Honor Harrington would put you off the genre. I don't blame him though. If he's read Honor Harrington those brain cells aren't gonna grow back any time soon.
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Dec 12, 2017 05:34
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NoNostalgia4Grover posted:
Path of the Fury (before the deluxe edition) was pretty alright by god I will die on this hill!
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Dec 12, 2017 05:46
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I like the one where the calm, rational people who recognize the importance of liberal values use their technological superiority to brutally own the corrupt, inefficient ideologues.
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Dec 12, 2017 05:51
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Nevvy Z posted:I'm quite enjoying the Malice so far. I read the Vagrant when it was cheap and forgot it had sequels! I'm halfway through Autonomous and think it's okay. What in particular didn't you like?
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Dec 12, 2017 05:58
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"Honor Harrington but with romance" makes me think of a 15 page description for one phase of a ballroom dance with a 10 page digression on courtly formalwear spliced into the center. And then the next dance starts. (Ultimately, a character who slighted the main character by not complimenting their dancing previously in the series will suffer their inevitable demise and be ruined forever after they use the wrong fork at dinner or something)
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Dec 12, 2017 06:16
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C.M. Kruger posted:"Honor Harrington but with romance" makes me think of a 15 page description for one phase of a ballroom dance with a 10 page digression on courtly formalwear spliced into the center. (and missiles)
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Dec 12, 2017 06:26
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Honor Harrington's dress would be sentient, telepathic, and a mistress of the katana.
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Dec 12, 2017 06:28
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C.M. Kruger posted:"Honor Harrington but with romance" makes me think of a 15 page description for one phase of a ballroom dance with a 10 page digression on courtly formalwear spliced into the center. And then the next dance starts. (Ultimately, a character who slighted the main character by not complimenting their dancing previously in the series will suffer their inevitable demise and be ruined forever after they use the wrong fork at dinner or something) I would absolutely read this but only if it were written by Brust-as-Paarfi.
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Dec 12, 2017 06:36
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It couldn't be any... worse? than Paarfirotica.
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Dec 12, 2017 08:16
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Honor Harrington's dress would be sentient, telepathic, and a mistress of the katana. Harrington's dancing skill being the result of years of practice will be retconned in favor of her being genetically engineered to be the perfect dancer.
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Dec 12, 2017 08:22
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NoNostalgia4Grover posted:
I was simplifying your argument to get to the absurdity of it. So series became book. Let me try again. “This book (series, natch) is good but superficially similar to a bad book, but if we change a bunch of things in it to make it more similar to the bad book it’s still better, and that makes it bad.” Sorry! I don’t want to get into a big Internet Argument, I just thought it was a silly criticism! Hieronymous Alloy laid out the complaint clearly. I’m just glad I haven’t read Honor Harrington because I wouldn’t want Vorkosigan to be ruined by proxy.
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Dec 12, 2017 13:47
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Bear Sleuth posted:Sorry! I don’t want to get into a big Internet Argument, I just thought it was a silly criticism! Hieronymous Alloy laid out the complaint clearly. I’m just glad I haven’t read Honor Harrington because I wouldn’t want Vorkosigan to be ruined by proxy. No problems. If anything, Hieronymous Alloy understated the amount of mary sue stuff in that series. You don't want to go there. Avoid David Weber, and be wary of authors whom are mostly published under the Baen books imprint. Baen books focuses on the mil scifi-fantasy genre, so if that's not your thing; look for the Baen imprint(and avoid them) on any new 2 you authors you run across online/in bookstores.
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Dec 12, 2017 14:41
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What's bizarre to me is that Baen has a lot of trash, sure - but they also publish some genuinely good books like Children no More by Mark L. Van Name and Black on Black by KD Wentworth and We the Underpeople by Cordwainer Smith.
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Dec 12, 2017 15:48
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StrixNebulosa posted:What's bizarre to me is that Baen has a lot of trash, sure - but they also publish some genuinely good books like Children no More by Mark L. Van Name and Black on Black by KD Wentworth and We the Underpeople by Cordwainer Smith. Basically every publisher pushes out a good bit of trash. The main difference is alot of the "trash" Baen puts out actually sells consistently and does well instead of flopping horribly.
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Dec 12, 2017 16:02
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Baen actually publish(ed) some good authors who write good fiction. This should not be taken as an endorsement or a suggestion that you try your luck on a Baen book you don't recognise. The odds are not in your favour. You're probably better off just avoiding them.
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Dec 12, 2017 17:01
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ShinsoBEAM! posted:Basically every publisher pushes out a good bit of trash. The main difference is alot of the "trash" Baen puts out actually sells consistently and does well instead of flopping horribly. Baen has a lot of fans that are loyal to the publisher, so they buy as many Baen releases as they can. A lot of middling and outright terrible authors have also figured out they can hitch their wagons to people like Correia or Ringo and watch their books sell reasonably well. At the end of the day, if an author is selling, Baen probably doesn't care about the details.
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Dec 12, 2017 17:11
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They were also one of the first publishers (possibly the first?) to loudly adopt an anti-DRM stance with the Baen Free Library and Webscriptions, which got them a lot of visibility and a lot of goodwill.
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Dec 12, 2017 17:17
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Baen is a intersting company, the owner(Jim Baen) broke away from a successful editorship at Tor Books to publish the kind of stories that he wanted to see in print. Jim Baen brought over a bunch of author buddies when starting up Baen Books, heavily talent scouted for new authors, encouraged older authors to start writing again, and was definitely groundbreaking with ebooks. From the start, there was a trend of Baen books having sloppy editing, and glossy cover-art, once Jim Baen died, that trend accelerated. We can blame Baen books for introducing John Ringo to the world, but can also thank Baen Books for getting ebooks recognized as commerically viable products. Overall it's all good.
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Dec 12, 2017 18:11
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 Undercover Infidels Europe 2123. Demography is destiny. Dhimmitude—assigning second-class citizenship to non-Muslims—has dug its claws into the continent that gave birth to Enlightenment itself. Now John Hamilton—West Point grad, CIA operative seeking to destroy biologic WMDs—must rescue a young girl sold into sexual slavery after her family could not pay the Christian Tax. But the slightest mistake can be costly on a continent gone darkly totalitarian—and freedom is an ocean away! U.S. Army veteran Tom Kratman notches up another highly entertaining, bound-to-be-controversial thriller! "Ringo and Kratman pull no punches. . ." — Publishers Weekly on Tom Kratman and John Ringo’s best-selling Watch on the Rhine. Acknowledgments: All the usual suspects: Yolanda who puts up with me, the 'flies, test readers Roger Ross and Dani Vogel and Sue Kerr, John Ringo, Toni and company, and—of course—the European Union, Transnational Progressivism, and Marxist-Leninism, without whose cooperation this book would not have been possible.
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Dec 12, 2017 18:24
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so maybe it's all kinda neutral, tops
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Dec 12, 2017 18:27
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Baen has always been a 'trash' publisher, or as Jim Baen himself put it, 'fun'. The difference is that Jim Baen himself had an eye for things with some candy amidst the dross, while the people who have followed him since he died are just straight-up neocon shills who publish rightwing poo poo like this under their SF imprint. They've moved the brand away from 'action SF' or whatever into an identity politics thing where they want to position Baen the publisher and their readers as the 'true heirs' of SF and it's a dumb and divisive thing to do. I mean Jim Baen published Vorkosigan at a time when trad publishers A) didn't think space opera would sell B) espcially by a woman. He was himself a conservative in the old style of the word, but mostly he knew what he wanted in stories (action! adventure!) and aggressively built a brand around that rather than 'all SF' like bigger houses. Their sales tend to be consistent as a result of that, but they're still smaller than Tor and the other big houses. As mentioned, Jim Baen also heavily lead the charge on ebooks, along with Eric Flint, and he was in general willing to try new things that bigger publishing houses were afraid of. A lot of the things people mentioned as good stuff were part of his reprinting program for old SF that he liked, and he would issue ebook versions at the same time, which helped prove the market for affordable re-releases. Basically, he was a decent guy and I'm sad he's gone.
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Dec 12, 2017 18:27
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Neurosis posted:I'm halfway through Autonomous and think it's okay. What in particular didn't you like? I think stuporstar covered it well. Stuporstar posted:I read it as well and I'm still on the fence about it. I'm interested to know what ruined it for you, because drat the whole pharma-pirates working against a crushing world-encompassing corporate oligarchy had so much potential. It could have been good, but the author made so many questionable choices, I could see where one or more of them could completely ruin the book for someone. Especially the cringey sex poo poo. It managed to be more cringey than Heinlein's creepy-old-man sex poo poo, and that takes anti-talent. Though I've never read annalee. There was nothing good enough in it that i'd recommend it to anyone.
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Dec 12, 2017 18:31
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occamsnailfile posted:Baen has always been a 'trash' publisher, or as Jim Baen himself put it, 'fun'. The difference is that Jim Baen himself had an eye for things with some candy amidst the dross, while the people who have followed him since he died are just straight-up neocon shills who publish rightwing poo poo like this under their SF imprint. They've moved the brand away from 'action SF' or whatever into an identity politics thing where they want to position Baen the publisher and their readers as the 'true heirs' of SF and it's a dumb and divisive thing to do. Nahh they are still mostly action SF they poked their heads in the identity politics for a few years but as you can see from that link, the hardcore Baen fans rejected it hard. 1.55 is a giant middle finger.
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Dec 12, 2017 18:37
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Eric Flint & Harry Turtledove either hate or love that that Paradox Games with their Europa Universalis, Crusader Kings, Victoria, and Hearts of Iron series exist.
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Dec 12, 2017 18:43
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90s Cringe Rock posted:Now John Hamilton—West Point grad, CIA operative seeking to destroy biologic WMDs—must rescue a young girl sold into sexual slavery after her family could not pay the Christian Tax. I guess if he had any talent he also wouldn't have his lovely-rear end worldviews.
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Dec 12, 2017 19:21
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Isn't Kratman the guy who wrote a book about aliens invading during ww2 and being defeated by the heroic SS?
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Dec 12, 2017 20:27
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anilEhilated posted:Isn't Kratman the guy who wrote book about aliens invading during ww2 and being defeated by the heroic SS? He also wrote A Desert Called Peace Arms clutched protectively around the now crying Milagro, Bob rushed to the side of the fallen mother. Julio followed. "What happened?" she asked, groggily. "I don't know, I don't know," answered a shocked Bob as he helped her to her feet. "The LTAs never come that close. Jesus, it hit us!" He thought about that for a moment, then amended, "No, it crashed into us. On purpose. Christ!" As Bob spoke, the fire sprinklers came on overhead, sprayed for a few seconds, and then died as pressure from below fell to nothing. The pipes had been cut. Unchecked by the sprinklers, smoke and the hint of flame began rising past the exterior windows. Milagro began coughing as faint smoke filtered into the office complex. Minutes passed as Linda soothed the child, Julio calming the next oldest beside her. Just as the last tears were wiped and the last sniffles snuffed, Julio looked up and pointed out the window and across the city to where another airship closed on a building only just less grand than the TNTO. That was the headquarters for the Global News Network, based in First Landing. Julio said, "Mom, there's another one . . ." It gets worse.
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Dec 12, 2017 20:32
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90s Cringe Rock posted:
January's Infowars.com Book of the Month Club Selection
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Dec 12, 2017 23:34
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:no no no I'm basically finished with The Stupidest Angel and, while it has absolutely no redeeming value and is basically a slapstick comedy in book form, am in love. Are the rest of his books similar? I'm trying not to spend money, but I could see myself sliding down a very dark hole full of stupid books.
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Dec 13, 2017 06:40
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I've always wondered if Baen only gives "good covers" to their more successful authors. Like, obviously David Weber, David Drake, and Lois McMaster Bujold get the fancy covers. But if you're not one of the big names, then you get all the 3D CGI and photomontage covers.
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Dec 13, 2017 07:19
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USMC_Karl posted:I'm basically finished with The Stupidest Angel and, while it has absolutely no redeeming value and is basically a slapstick comedy in book form, am in love. Are the rest of his books similar? I'm trying not to spend money, but I could see myself sliding down a very dark hole full of stupid books. Read Lamb next for more of Raziel (the Stupidest Angel), and because it’s one of my favorite books. If you want Tucker Case and Roberto (he no like the light) backstory, read Island of the Sequined Love Nun. Interested in Theo and Kendra and squirrel porn guy? The Lust Lizard of Melancholy Cove. For Mavis, HPs Cafe, Robert and Jenny Masterson as well as the first Pine Cove book (and the first book in the Mooreverse), Practical Demonkeeping. In quality, out of those, I’d go Lamb, Practical Demonkeeping, Love Nun, Lust Lizard in that order. If you don’t care about keeping with that particular group of characters, slide Fool, Coyote Blue, Serpent of Venice between Lamb and Demonkeeping, then Bloodsucking Fiends after.
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Dec 13, 2017 08:09
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C.M. Kruger posted:I've always wondered if Baen only gives "good covers" to their more successful authors. Like, obviously David Weber, David Drake, and Lois McMaster Bujold get the fancy covers. But if you're not one of the big names, then you get all the 3D CGI and photomontage covers. I'm a fan of Susan R Matthews from before she signed with Baen, and I think she's getting good covers. Based on knowing her on Facebook, I think she'd agree. Her Jurisdiction series has some really good stuff in it. 
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Dec 13, 2017 08:26
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that looks dreadful.
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Dec 13, 2017 10:21
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To be fair it is a good cover - for Star Wars fanfiction.
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Dec 13, 2017 12:59
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Both "Blood Enemies" and "The Under Jurisdiction Series" are awful, awful titles.
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Dec 13, 2017 13:04
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mllaneza posted:I'm a fan of Susan R Matthews from before she signed with Baen, and I think she's getting good covers. Based on knowing her on Facebook, I think she'd agree. Her Jurisdiction series has some really good stuff in it. is this sarcasm
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Dec 13, 2017 14:20
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