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botany
Apr 27, 2013

by Lowtax
dazzle is fun tho

(ノ◕ヮ◕)ノ*:・゚✧ dazzul!

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Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012

DNK posted:

There are a lot of semicarries that make great supports. Its probably better to think about the 4/5 as heroes that are good without items rather than MUST BE DAZZLE OR LICH.

Monkey King is one of my favorite support heroes because he can do an incredibly amount of ganking / disruption with pretty much zero farm. Just go phase / wand / medallion and purchase wards. If youre owning then you can go desolator or whatever.

Honestly, it would be nice if a mix of Vainglory renaming supports "Captain" and Heroes of the Storm's renaming carries "Assassins" caught on. At least maybe there'd be one or two less narcissistic assholes playing Carry (a role that plays into said shithead tendencies) and more people who want the "melts people" part of carry play realizing that's pretty much support earlygame.

RealityWarCriminal
Aug 10, 2016

:o:
Marksmen

Kild
Apr 24, 2010

Medusa, The Gorgon Assassin.

Squee, Spleen, and Spoon the Goblin Techies Captain.

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012

Kild posted:

Medusa, The Gorgon Assassin.

Hey, there's no time limit for an assassination. Marathon not sprint buddyyyyyy

Kawabata
Apr 20, 2014

You plebians just don't know what epic literature is. You should try reading Stephanie Meyer, E.L. James, Dan Brown, or Ayn Rand.
I picked Troll Warlord in my last game without realizing how they changed the hero (plus the...huh...keys? I could swear I used W in melee once, now it's greyed out cause it's E instead and this gave me in-game autism), and not remembering anything at all about him. Granted it wasn't even a ranked match but dotabuff insists I'm playing in "very high skill" games all the time (whatever that means) and my team mates looked competent enough.

Long story short I played like poo poo, doing horrible stuff like not activating his blind when engaging or not switching weapon modes fast enough to gain movespeed/armor but oh man just pressing R at the right time and getting ludicrous, never before seen amounts of bashes was enough to win a game that was almost gone.

Dota is still great, long live Dota.

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010

Kawabata posted:

I picked Troll Warlord in my last game without realizing how they changed the hero (plus the...huh...keys? I could swear I used W in melee once, now it's greyed out cause it's E instead and this gave me in-game autism), and not remembering anything at all about him. Granted it wasn't even a ranked match but dotabuff insists I'm playing in "very high skill" games all the time (whatever that means) and my team mates looked competent enough.

Long story short I played like poo poo, doing horrible stuff like not activating his blind when engaging or not switching weapon modes fast enough to gain movespeed/armor but oh man just pressing R at the right time and getting ludicrous, never before seen amounts of bashes was enough to win a game that was almost gone.

Dota is still great, long live Dota.

He's barely been changed except his melee and ranged axes are on on seperate hotkeys??? Unless you mean WAY back when he had blind as ana utocast instead of axes???

Kawabata
Apr 20, 2014

You plebians just don't know what epic literature is. You should try reading Stephanie Meyer, E.L. James, Dan Brown, or Ayn Rand.

Cuntellectual posted:

He's barely been changed except his melee and ranged axes are on on seperate hotkeys??? Unless you mean WAY back when he had blind as ana utocast instead of axes???

I think the last time I played him was early 2014 or some poo poo. I stopped playing dota in 2015, only just got back. :)

Yeah it was an autocast.

TOOT BOOT
May 25, 2010

The only autocast thing I remember changing over the years is that Puck used to be able to autocast phase shift which could be good or bad depending on the situation I guess.

Nanomashoes
Aug 18, 2012

Why did they put axes on different buttons and why did they separate the morphling abilities, both do nothing except gently caress me up constantly.

jsoh
Mar 24, 2007

O Muhammad, I seek your intercession with my Lord for the return of my eyesight
gently caress you is why!! the morph thing is a straight buff but the axes one is just gently caress you change for changes sake. i hope next they put cancel nightmare on a new button

Death Bot
Mar 4, 2007

Binary killing machines, turning 1 into 0 since 0011000100111001 0011011100110110

TOOT BOOT posted:

The only autocast thing I remember changing over the years is that Puck used to be able to autocast phase shift which could be good or bad depending on the situation I guess.

Automatically phase shifting raw lina ult or whatever was p good, playing against players who knew to pop it wasn't

Ojetor
Aug 4, 2010

Return of the Sensei

Super Rad posted:

Pressing random every game was and still is how I have fun when playing Dota. Less fun now, and less dota now, but still random every drat game unless I have like a compendium quest of something.

I still random every game too, even though it sucks now. It's really lame that you have huge chances of getting repeat heroes now. I don't know why they tied random to this bonus hero system. Also why do bonus heroes even exist, just because League and HotS have hero rotations we need some too?

TOOT BOOT
May 25, 2010

Behead those who random in ranked.

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

Ojetor posted:

I still random every game too, even though it sucks now. It's really lame that you have huge chances of getting repeat heroes now. I don't know why they tied random to this bonus hero system. Also why do bonus heroes even exist, just because League and HotS have hero rotations we need some too?

What I don't get is that since these bonus heroes are tied to the randoming system - why not just make the 10 heroes random every single game rather than selecting them once per day? Or if that's too variant make it 3 random cores/supports/offlaners plus one flex pick. I've heard streamers groan about days when Tinker pickers or whatever get the free mangos and have an easier mid than they should - and it feels like knowing which 10 heroes have the bonus before even queuing skews picks in a way that's shittier than the way it was before.

TOOT BOOT
May 25, 2010

Sometimes I ban bonus heroes simply because because I feel like people are more inclined to pick them with the bonus mango and I don't want to deal with their bullshit.

jsoh
Mar 24, 2007

O Muhammad, I seek your intercession with my Lord for the return of my eyesight
my pool is 3 heroes so i only play on days that they are bonus

Shade2142
Oct 10, 2012

Rollin'
It never gets old defending hg with stasis trap spam and mines (which people conveniently forget pierces their bkbs).

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012
Speaking of, its pretty fun loving with techies as Gyro since sidegunner instantly kills mines as they reveal. Bonus if its a bad techies that only uses remote mines to make nests because they cant handle micro/map awareness.

Not Al-Qaeda
Mar 20, 2012
wish this game had rolebased queueing. i want to play like 10 morph games in a row but obv safelane gets insta locked every game

Neon Belly
Feb 12, 2008

I need something stronger.

You're mad because people want to slampick safelane before you get to slampick safelane?

Wangsbig
May 27, 2007

Not Al-Qaeda posted:

wish this game had rolebased queueing. i want to play like 10 morph games in a row but obv safelane gets insta locked every game

league of legends only gets to do this bc they have the entire world playing and they've made support an incredibly well-defined role

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

Not Al-Qaeda posted:

wish this game had rolebased queueing. i want to play like 10 morph games in a row but obv safelane gets insta locked every game

I think the worst part of role based matchmaking would be that no one on your team will have picked to counter the Riki/BH on the enemy team.

I can't imagine carry slam pickers would prefer to wait 100x times as long to get a game when they are already slam picking carries every game, so I really doubt this idea will ever see more of a push. I mean even a dumbdumb moba like HOTS makes you draft in Ranked.

Kawabata
Apr 20, 2014

You plebians just don't know what epic literature is. You should try reading Stephanie Meyer, E.L. James, Dan Brown, or Ayn Rand.
ive long debated whether flaming is in order for ranked play random pickers, and the answer is yes

it would be the best kind of gentlemanly flaming of course but still

jBrereton
May 30, 2013
Grimey Drawer

Kawabata posted:

ive long debated whether flaming is in order for ranked play random pickers, and the answer is yes

it would be the best kind of gentlemanly flaming of course but still
Things that are worth flaming people for:

- Rushing a T3 with everything on cooldown and half their health missing and feeding thousands and thousands of gold to the enemy team
- Not finishing regenning structures that are achingly close to death (esp if a support is right there but moving around in a circle on retard autopilot while their nuke is on cooldown)
- Repeated failed ganks from your "roamer" in the laning stage
- Mids complaining about a lack of wards when they die to the same obvious pudge/shadow shaman/venge gank multiple times while playing halfway up the lane with that hero missing from lanes

Not much else, and certainly not randoming.

Not Al-Qaeda
Mar 20, 2012

Wangsbig posted:

league of legends only gets to do this bc they have the entire world playing and they've made support an incredibly well-defined role

it could be like
[ ] mid core
[ ] safelane core
[ ] other

or something idk

Wangsbig
May 27, 2007

u should probably own people for randoming now since it is functionally no different than clicking the spin to random hero button

GOOD TIMES ON METH
Mar 17, 2006

Fun Shoe
I random because it is fun more than bonus anything. Bring back old randoming to at least unranked imo

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

I'd be worried about people selecting support for a faster queue time then playing core anyway. It seems quite hard to prevent that with some heroes.

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012

Irony Be My Shield posted:

I'd be worried about people selecting support for a faster queue time then playing core anyway. It seems quite hard to prevent that with some heroes.

Especially now that half the support heroes have hilariously good level 25 talents that turn them into semicarries.

RealityWarCriminal
Aug 10, 2016

:o:

Not Al-Qaeda posted:

it could be like
[ ] mid core
[ ] safelane core
[ ] other

or something idk

Just play what you want

Neon Belly
Feb 12, 2008

I need something stronger.

Neurolimal posted:

Especially now that half the support heroes have hilariously good level 25 talents that turn them into semicarries.

As a support main I'd still rather my games end well before reaching level 25.

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012

Neon Belly posted:

As a support main I'd still rather my games end well before reaching level 25.

well ya, I'm saying that going "support" and then just building carry poo poo is even more feasible now.

ElGroucho
Nov 1, 2005

We already - What about sticking our middle fingers up... That was insane
Fun Shoe
I love playing support

If you can get a good player as carry, there's nothing better than stunning/freezing/slowing a dude down so that your buddy in lane can gently caress the life out of them :yeah:

Before the inevitable collapse of your other lane, anyway

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

Wangsbig posted:

u should probably own people for randoming now since it is functionally no different than clicking the spin to random hero button

spin takes one click too many - there's no way you;re sneaking past johnny midlane like that. mashing dat random though ensures you'll get in first with a nice little twig inheritance to boot

Wangsbig
May 27, 2007

please. i go by johnathan now.

Kawabata
Apr 20, 2014

You plebians just don't know what epic literature is. You should try reading Stephanie Meyer, E.L. James, Dan Brown, or Ayn Rand.

jBrereton posted:

Things that are worth flaming people for:

- Rushing a T3 with everything on cooldown and half their health missing and feeding thousands and thousands of gold to the enemy team
- Not finishing regenning structures that are achingly close to death (esp if a support is right there but moving around in a circle on retard autopilot while their nuke is on cooldown)
- Repeated failed ganks from your "roamer" in the laning stage
- Mids complaining about a lack of wards when they die to the same obvious pudge/shadow shaman/venge gank multiple times while playing halfway up the lane with that hero missing from lanes

Not much else, and certainly not randoming.

Agree with all points except roamers failing ganks. Sometimes for the dumbest reasons the gank just isn't meant to be. The guys already farming in lane won't care much, the enemy won't care much but the roamer will lose massive amounts of gold and exp for ganks that looked very good on paper.

I feel like roamer is the hardest role in Dota man, give roamers a break.

jsoh
Mar 24, 2007

O Muhammad, I seek your intercession with my Lord for the return of my eyesight
huge buff to the hero demo in todays patch, you get tiny antimages now

strong bird
May 12, 2009

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Craig K
Nov 10, 2016

puck
ree.

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