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I'm still not sure why Luke was astral projecting to confront Kylo if he was just gonna die on Jedi Island anyway. Like, the reveal in that scene is "Kylo CAN'T kill Luke because Luke isn't even here", ok, fine nice reveal. But then Luke dies anyway. Why not just have Luke there in person to confront Kylo and join the force like Obi-Wan did? You end up in the same place, but without the "Kylo can't touch him, then he dies anyway". It just seems like a reveal and surprise that ends up meaning nothing. Lots of the film feels like it means nothing. I think this might have been a deliberate subverting of expectations, but that only works so much. If all you can do is go "Bet you didn't see that coming!", you might not end up with a satisfying story. Interesting that all of the conflict in this movie seems to come from superiors not really telling their subordinates what is going on and that biting everyone in the rear end. Luke not talking to Ben about his fears, and standing over him with a sword, sends him to the darkside. The rebel leadership keeps everyone in the dark, so they go off on their own adventures that backfire badly. Snoke fucks around with Kylo to draw Rey out, ends with Kylo cutting him in half.
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Dec 15, 2017 00:58
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Almost like its a theme... Also if luke had been there in person the atat's wouldve killed him, less decoy time. Also his ship had been underwater for years, who knows if it wouldve even flown?
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Dec 15, 2017 01:04
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No, if Luke had been there in person (like I too think he should've been), they would have done the sequence differently and the walkers wouldn't have been shooting at him the same way the did in the actual movie.
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Dec 15, 2017 01:08
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I also think it was nice that Luke becomes one with the Force in the peaceful manner that Yoda did, instead of in battle like Obi Wan (even if Obi Wan deliberately threw the fight to help Luke in the long run). Another bit of comedy I really enjoyed was Rey constantly pissing off the little old lady aliens who look after the temple.
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Dec 15, 2017 01:08
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garycoleisgod posted:I'm still not sure why Luke was astral projecting to confront Kylo if he was just gonna die on Jedi Island anyway. Because Luke says he's never leaving the island, and so he doesn't. Stupidly, when Luke showed up I thought it was part of some reshoots or something because his hair is shorter, not that he appears to Kylo the way that Kylo would've seen him last. Having thought about it, I do think that maybe having Leia die here (in the place of Laura Dern) would've been better because it is implicitly about leaving the past where it is and looking to the future. Luke can let go because he knows that with the next person it's going to be different. Leia can let go because she can see that Poe has changed his ways (His deciding to back out of the bombing run at the end and instead leading people to safety is a rejection of those little 'flyboy' jibes he keeps getting) and he'll be next to lead the Rebels. While I wasn't crazy about the Casino scene, I did like how it showed us another side to all of this, which is, of course, the profiteers in all this conflict. I still don't get what Phasma was doing there though. Like, I know people go 'it's to sell toys!' but is anyone clamouring for Phasma toys? And is anyone going to buy toys of someone who gets taken out like a chump twice in a row? It's almost like Johnson hadn't quite watched all of TFA.
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Dec 15, 2017 01:27
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I just saw it, I did not think it was very good at all. In fact I think it was pretty bad and my interest for Episode 9 is currently zero.
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Dec 15, 2017 01:29
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DrVenkman posted:but is anyone clamouring for Phasma toys? And is anyone going to buy toys of someone who gets taken out like a chump twice in a row? *casts a look to boba fett* hmm. yes. Hansen85 posted:No, if Luke had been there in person (like I too think he should've been), they would have done the sequence differently and the walkers wouldn't have been shooting at him the same way the did in the actual movie. Not really? It's not the first time we've seen someone with the Force walk through insane fire and come out unscathed (Rogue One). They could've done the same thing, have Luke step out of the barrage. It's all just Force stuff, the audience will fill in the blanks quite happily for Luke Skywalker of all the characters, I think.
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Dec 15, 2017 01:31
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I will give them props for not changing the movie because of Fisher's death. They stuck to their story. It will make Ep. 9 harder to make, but gently caress it, that's a problem for another day. Initially when Kylo's saber passed through Luke I thought it was a reshoot, and they were changing it so Luke could live and be in the next movie. Maybe that's why his dying anyway confused me, I thought they were dodging his death so they could bring him back. Nope! He will be in it as a ghost anyway. I did like that he trolled Kylo so hard, seems thats one thing he learned from Yoda. I got what they were trying for with the Casino planet, that all these heroics and derring-do are pointless and counter productive in the end, like Poe's bombing run at the start. It's just that it wasn't interesting to watch in the moment and when it is later confirmed it was pointless, it makes you feel like you watched a boring sequence for literally no reason at all. Overall, this is the longest Star Wars movie isn't it? It sure felt like it.
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Dec 15, 2017 01:41
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I think the whole idea of the casino planet was the whole "time to go to a wretched hive of scum and infamy, turns out it's all the criminals and poor people" as it is in ANH, TPM and RO, and instead going "time to go to a wretched hive of scum and infamy, turns out it's all perfectly legal war profiteers and rich people". Which is a fun twist and a worthwhile point to make... but the problem is that's pretty much all it is and we have a whole little plotline there. You can't just take a potentially interesting idea and just go "Well, there it is."
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Dec 15, 2017 01:42
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Definitely in my top three SW films, nudging out V.
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Dec 15, 2017 01:46
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DrVenkman posted:Stupidly, when Luke showed up I thought it was part of some reshoots or something because his hair is shorter, not that he appears to Kylo the way that Kylo would've seen him last. First I thought he was only visible to Leia. Then I thought he was force projecting or whatever but then he gave her the dice and I then had no idea. But then I spent the whole sequence wondering why he stopped at a space hair dresser and got a brown rinse through his hair and beard.
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Dec 15, 2017 01:57
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Goddamn this movie is amazing if only for how much it goes out of its way to piss off Star Wars nerds. The hyperspace Snokeship headshot was *kisses fingers*
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Dec 15, 2017 02:09
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all those heroics and derring-do aren't pointless, because finn and rose freed the slaves like, rose even explicitly points out that it was worth it anyway as the uncanny valley horses flee into the wilderness, despite the fact that their mission was a failure
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Dec 15, 2017 02:18
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Well, they freed the horses. The kids are still hosed. And teaming up with DJ got the rebels plan betrayed and a bunch killed, so yeah, it was pointless.
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Dec 15, 2017 02:22
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Milky Moor posted:Not really? It's not the first time we've seen someone with the Force walk through insane fire and come out unscathed (Rogue One). They could've done the same thing, have Luke step out of the barrage. It's all just Force stuff, the audience will fill in the blanks quite happily for Luke Skywalker of all the characters, I think. I think the point was that Luke didn't wanna engage in a real duel. He was stalling and overexerting himself knowing it would lead to his death, but he also didn't wanna give Kylo the satisfaction of killing him. Actually, he didn't wanna put the burden of killing him on Kylo. At the end, he gets to join the Force on his own terms, Kylo has to deal with it instead of getting another reason to go Full Grimdark and he does what he wanted to do, give the Rebels enough time to gently caress off.
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Dec 15, 2017 02:36
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Dias posted:I think the point was that Luke didn't wanna engage in a real duel. He was stalling and overexerting himself knowing it would lead to his death, but he also didn't wanna give Kylo the satisfaction of killing him. Actually, he didn't wanna put the burden of killing him on Kylo. At the end, he gets to join the Force on his own terms, Kylo has to deal with it instead of getting another reason to go Full Grimdark and he does what he wanted to do, give the Rebels enough time to gently caress off. Yeah, he learned from his mistake of confronting kylo before. This really is the Empire remake, the heroes keep failing but enough survive to make it worth it and pass on hope, like with the kid slaves. Great, now i'm tearing up thinking about that ending again
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Dec 15, 2017 02:45
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Dias posted:I think the point was that Luke didn't wanna engage in a real duel. He was stalling and overexerting himself knowing it would lead to his death, but he also didn't wanna give Kylo the satisfaction of killing him. Actually, he didn't wanna put the burden of killing him on Kylo. At the end, he gets to join the Force on his own terms, Kylo has to deal with it instead of getting another reason to go Full Grimdark and he does what he wanted to do, give the Rebels enough time to gently caress off. Good point, yeah. Especially the bit about the burden of it.
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Dec 15, 2017 02:50
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got any sevens posted:Yeah, he learned from his mistake of confronting kylo before. It is Empire but when they escape Hoth the movie sticks with the boring people in the main transporter rather than the interesting people who left in their own beat-up ship.
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Dec 15, 2017 02:57
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Wank posted:How you don't end TLJ with Leia walking out to confront Kylo to buy time (and getting killed in the process) I will never know. Plus the "episode" Star Wars movies are about Luke, its the last one he needs to die in - Ben Solo needs to die in that one as well. The galaxy finally rid of the Skywalkers. People say they're gonna be rid of Skywalkers but y'all forget that Abram's is just as likely to have Leia posthumously adopt Rey since she still doesn't have a last name. Someone is gonna ask what her name is and the last line in the movie I BET you she's going to say, "It's Rey, Rey Skywalker." Credits fanfare The End.
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Dec 15, 2017 03:13
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Man I saw this an hour or so ago and I've been chewing on it but I'm pretty happy with how egalitarian this movie is people's actions matter, not who they are which includes who Snoke is and who Reysl's parents are. The Kylo Rey scene is an absolute high point of the entire series. The Skywalker saga basically being the start of to the end of a bloodline sure is a thing.
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Dec 15, 2017 03:17
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So has Luke become Zizek? Also, VeryLonelyLuke was completely accurate. https://twitter.com/VeryLonelyLuke/status/918202853604380672
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Dec 15, 2017 03:20
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Jiro posted:People say they're gonna be rid of Skywalkers but y'all forget that Abram's is just as likely to have Leia posthumously adopt Rey since she still doesn't have a last name. Someone is gonna ask what her name is and the last line in the movie I BET you she's going to say, "It's Rey, Rey Skywalker." Credits fanfare The End. I wasn't that keen on TLJ but, hooo boy, I do not want Abrams back for 9. Snoke'll be back, Rey will be a Skywalker...
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Dec 15, 2017 03:24
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I do think it's a weird decision to kill Luke off when Carrie Fisher has passed away so we know she won't be back. And I know we still will have Force Ghost Luke, but it still strikes me as an odd choice in light of real life. But it does work for the story. That sequence with the lightspeed shot through Snoke's ship was incredible. Good movie overall!
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Dec 15, 2017 03:36
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Revenant Threshold posted:I think the whole idea of the casino planet was the whole "time to go to a wretched hive of scum and infamy, turns out it's all the criminals and poor people" as it is in ANH, TPM and RO, and instead going "time to go to a wretched hive of scum and infamy, turns out it's all perfectly legal war profiteers and rich people". Which is a fun twist and a worthwhile point to make... but the problem is that's pretty much all it is and we have a whole little plotline there. You can't just take a potentially interesting idea and just go "Well, there it is." yeah. caito bight and and the whole finn-rose plotline was eh. some neat ideas but they dont really do anything with them. phasma is loving wasted again but it made finns character grow sorta. i liked everything else. rey is still kinda eh, but she grows more. i liked the snoke stuff. like the first order is just alt right shithead version of the empire, then he is the lovely conman head palpatine.
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Dec 15, 2017 03:46
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garycoleisgod posted:Well, they freed the horses. i like the DJ is just reverse han solo. a talented poo poo head who isnt a smooth talk and betrays people because war is war.
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Dec 15, 2017 03:48
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Milky Moor posted:I wasn't that keen on TLJ but, hooo boy, I do not want Abrams back for 9. Snoke'll be back, Rey will be a Skywalker... i dont think they will let snoke come back. who knows with rey though. this has gotten pretty drat good reviews all hailing johnson, so they may place him back for 9.
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Dec 15, 2017 03:49
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C2Ho-Qe7gI Why is Marky Mark so upset?
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Dec 15, 2017 03:58
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I do like the more subtle hints that Luke is a Force projection; attention is drawn multiple times to how Kylo Ren's feet leave red marks in the salt, but Luke's feet leave no trace on the ground.
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Dec 15, 2017 04:05
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I again don't see how Rey being better than everyone at everything for no particular reason is "egalitarian". She's set to accomplish everything the characters in the original trilogy accomplished again. Their actions clearly didn't matter at all, and all the other new characters don't actually accomplish much either. The idea that it's more egalitarian to change the focus from a family to a single superhero-esque figure doesn't make sense to me.
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Dec 15, 2017 04:06
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Am I the only one always mixing up Cate Blanchett with the hospital admin from House, MD?
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Dec 15, 2017 04:08
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Inescapable Duck posted:Am I the only one always mixing up Cate Blanchett with the hospital admin from House, MD? You're thinking of Lisa Edelstein.
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Dec 15, 2017 04:08
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Inescapable Duck posted:I do like the more subtle hints that Luke is a Force projection; attention is drawn multiple times to how Kylo Ren's feet leave red marks in the salt, but Luke's feet leave no trace on the ground. Also the whole using a blue lightsaber that already got pulled apart Movie was dope but how the gently caress can they wrap it up in one movie
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Dec 15, 2017 04:12
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Adun posted:Movie was dope but how the gently caress can they wrap it up in one movie Watch 'em break Episode IX into two movies.
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Dec 15, 2017 04:17
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I loved it so much and I think you'd have to be on some real comic book guy level to not like it. Wish it'd wrapped up a little sooner but it's not like they return of the king'd it. I'm weary of judging it on a single viewing but I really, really enjoyed it.
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Dec 15, 2017 04:19
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I felt it had a lot of good parts but was super bloated. I dunno what they have planned for the next movie that they had to cram so much into this one. I like the dreadnought's commodore. Just such a grump.
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Dec 15, 2017 04:22
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I'm glad we dodged the Rey Skywalker bullet.
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Dec 15, 2017 04:23
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Dapper_Swindler posted:yeah. caito bight and and the whole finn-rose plotline was eh. some neat ideas but they dont really do anything with them. phasma is loving wasted again but it made finns character grow sorta. i liked everything else. rey is still kinda eh, but she grows more. i liked the snoke stuff. like the first order is just alt right shithead version of the empire, then he is the lovely conman head palpatine. I liked the Snoke stuff too, dude was just smoke and mirrors. Not really knowing anything about him doesn't really bother me either, we didn't know anything about Palpatine until the prequels really.
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Dec 15, 2017 04:33
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Inescapable Duck posted:I felt it had a lot of good parts but was super bloated. I dunno what they have planned for the next movie that they had to cram so much into this one. "Launch our fighters!" "...should've launched them five minutes ago." 
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Dec 15, 2017 04:35
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I enjoyed it a lot even though i was kinda weary of the leaks but I feel like everything went together well. Nerds gonna be arguing about this movie the next 50 years though.
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Dec 15, 2017 04:43
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So Benecio Del Toro's character, was it just a coincidence they met him in that cell? Or did he orchestrate that somehow? I feel like I missed something.
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Dec 15, 2017 04:44
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