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Sombrerotron posted:I am mad as hell that Luke didn't lift his old X-Wing from the water and shoot up some fuckers with it. That was just put in so that you'd think it was real Luke on salt planet and to stop a thousand youtubers from making hour long theory videos on how luke got to the planet.
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Dec 16, 2017 19:49
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Did anyone else feel like the First Order and the Resistance went full on into feeling like something from a Saturday morning cartoon in this one? Like, less an intergalactic conflict and more He man vs Skeletor or GI Joe vs Cobra?
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Dec 16, 2017 19:50
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If Episode IX doesn’t end in full galactic communism NOW this whole enterprise will have all been for naught.
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Dec 16, 2017 19:52
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veni veni veni posted:Did anyone else feel like the First Order and the Resistance went full on into feeling like something from a Saturday morning cartoon in this one? Like, less an intergalactic conflict and more He man vs Skeletor or GI Joe vs Cobra? I have bad news for you about how Star War has consistently been depicted in films and television. This whole series is goofy as hell. Kart Barfunkel posted:If Episode IX doesn’t end in full galactic communism NOW this whole enterprise will have all been for naught. My money's on Rian Johnson's trilogy being about droid liberation.
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Dec 16, 2017 19:55
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Sombrerotron posted:I am mad as hell that Luke didn't lift his old X-Wing from the water and shoot up some fuckers with it. This so much. Kept expecting him to enter the final battle in it but then again it had been under water a while. This is a better movie than TFA but i think TFA is probably a better Star Wars movie. However, this opens up more future movies than TFA did. It give much more scope for the future of it all than TFA did which was probably the plan. TFA had to seel it to old fans and new. It's had to play fairly safe. This was far more risky, and 8n some ways it pays off but in some it didn't. Will need to see again before I can really decide if I love it or not.
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Dec 16, 2017 19:56
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Bongo Bill posted:I have bad news for you about how Star War has consistently been depicted in films and television. This whole series is goofy as hell. I don't mean the goofiness. I mean that it feels like about 8 characters just chasing each other around and nothing else matters.
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Dec 16, 2017 19:58
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Kart Barfunkel posted:If Episode IX doesn’t end in full galactic communism NOW this whole enterprise will have all been for naught. I hope so. I've said it already but "home to the worst people in the galaxy" and then it being the super rich was loving amazing.
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Dec 16, 2017 20:03
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Also, I noticed that a lot of characters have very cool rings. It’s like a theme in the movie that I don’t quite have my head around yet.
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Dec 16, 2017 20:04
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Bongo Bill posted:My money's on Rian Johnson's trilogy being about droid liberation. There was definitely meant to be some parallel between Finn and Rose liberating the space horses and them riding the BB-8 Walker to freedom.
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Dec 16, 2017 20:10
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Kart Barfunkel posted:If Episode IX doesn’t end in full galactic communism NOW this whole enterprise will have all been for naught. I feel like people are getting this leftist reading from this movie and I just don't see it. The resistance aren't space socialists they are space democrats. They are defined entirely by their opposition to the fascists they don't have any real political ideology of their own. Its not clear what they would do to improve things in the galaxy if they took power. It pays lip service to class politics but ultimately treats the rich as a secondary problem, not the driving force. The whole movie falls into a thematic uncanny valley for me. The fact that starts to touch on real, current political issues but has such weak things to say about them makes it incredibly frustrating.
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Dec 16, 2017 20:14
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UmOk posted:I'm amazed at how many dumb-fucks don't get this. This same scene is shown from three different points of view with each one adding some detail the last left out. I strolled into the RT viewer reviews and watched some youtube reviews to see what the average non-CineD Star Wars nerds think and almost all of them were saying that "they ruined Luke Skywalker!!" It's a pretty big jump for the character. In RotJ he holds back and tries to redeem a sith lord who's been committing atrocities for decades. In this movie he sensed some darkness in his nephew, creeped into his tent at night, and was a hair's breadth from murdering him in his sleep before he regained his senses.
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Dec 16, 2017 20:20
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Themes of trust between superiors and subordinates. Luke and Holdo made the same mistake: they were trying to prevent their subordinates from failing rather than enable them to succeed, leading to breakdowns in trust that led to greater tragedies. Oddly enough, Snoke is the one who got this right, by giving his two oafish sons all the rope they needed to hang themselves, and he was rewarded by being surpassed by his student, which is what a master should truly desire.
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Dec 16, 2017 20:25
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eggyolk posted:The space-WW2 naval chase (where Leia space-Jesus'd and purple hair needlessly suicide bombed) was really cool and I'm glad it let them focus on solving income-inequality, war-profiteering, child slavery and animal-rights instead. Luckily they were able to cram the actual movie into 6+ consecutive finale scenes at the very end. I mean, if she didnt suicide bomb the rest of the escape ships would have been blown up. veni veni veni posted:I don't mean the goofiness. I mean that it feels like about 8 characters just chasing each other around and nothing else matters. Well, it's established fairly early that both groups are pretty stretched thin at this point. tayvaan posted:I feel like people are getting this leftist reading from this movie and I just don't see it. The resistance aren't space socialists they are space democrats. They are defined entirely by their opposition to the fascists they don't have any real political ideology of their own. Its not clear what they would do to improve things in the galaxy if they took power. It pays lip service to class politics but ultimately treats the rich as a secondary problem, not the driving force. I'd say the resistance are space-dems, but show factional splits similar to the real world; Rose being a leftist, Finn being the republican turned democrat turned leftist, purphair being the liberal obsessed with procedure, etc. Down to Rey (new democrat/leftist) fighting with Luke (old democrat/liberal) over whether the alt-right can be redeemed. there's a pretty obvious line being drawn between old and young characters, and establishing younger characters as having leftist tendencies. Especially considering Leia and Chewbacca (literally an alien) are the only old characters left, and Trump getting cut in half . There's also the events of TFA, where the resistance is revealed to have free droids, working equal jobs with organics, seeing repairs instead of being scrapped, and being allowed to 'retire'.
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Dec 16, 2017 20:39
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Bongo Bill posted:Themes of trust between superiors and subordinates. Luke and Holdo made the same mistake: they were trying to prevent their subordinates from failing rather than enable them to succeed, leading to breakdowns in trust that led to greater tragedies. Oddly enough, Snoke is the one who got this right, by giving his two oafish sons all the rope they needed to hang themselves, and he was rewarded by being surpassed by his student, which is what a master should truly desire. Re: Snoke I had a similar thought in my screening last night What if Snoke is/was playing a longer game here, and absolutely knew that Kylo was about to murder him and ascend to higher power?
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Dec 16, 2017 20:57
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CelticPredator posted:He did. Just going to point out Han's "see you in Hell" line from ESB. Either it's a bad line in which case it's a double standard or non-Jedi religions exist in Star Wars. Either of these things is fine I guess.
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Dec 16, 2017 20:57
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BardoTheConsumer posted:Just going to point out Han's "see you in Hell" line from ESB. Either it's a bad line in which case it's a double standard or non-Jedi religions exist in Star Wars. Non-Jedi religions exist in Star Wars. Why does Jar Jar owe a life debt to Qui-Gon? "'Tis demanded by the gods, it is." He also thinks the Force "smells stinkowiff."
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Dec 16, 2017 21:00
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Chomposaur posted:It's a pretty big jump for the character. In RotJ he holds back and tries to redeem a sith lord who's been committing atrocities for decades. In this movie he sensed some darkness in his nephew, creeped into his tent at night, and was a hair's breadth from murdering him in his sleep before he regained his senses. It's a little more than that Luke didn't sense 'some' darkness. He said that he saw all the death and all the people who would suffer and briefly gives in to his worst impulse.
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Dec 16, 2017 21:17
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He basically got the whole "would you travel back in time and kill child Hitler" choice, except instead of time travel it was precognition/visions
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Dec 16, 2017 21:26
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Reflecting more on TLJ, I feel really bad for Finn. This movie struggled to handle all three of its protagonists splitting off on their own, and as a result Finn was completely wasted. Finn's entire subplot ends with him accomplishing nothing. He leaves for Canto Bight and doesn't find the codebreaker he's looking for, gets stuck on Snoke's super duper star destroyer where he is subsequently betrayed and captured, is only saved from execution by the results of the hyperspace kamikaze, and beats Phasma by sheer luck, and then goes on a doomed attack run on the battering ram laser (that wouldn't have worked) only to be shoved out of the way at the last minute. TFA couldn't juggle its "big three" either: Finn and Rey are teamed up for most of the movie and Poe is a minor character. TLJ tried to be a bit more equitable in screentime but Finn just ended up loaded down with a pointless subplot. Canto Bight was cool and all but it adds too much to an already-bloated movie that ultimately proves to be of no consequence.
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Dec 16, 2017 21:32
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Well Manicured Man posted:Finn was completely wasted. doomed attack run on the battering ram laser (that wouldn't have worked) only to be shoved out of the way at the last minute. Do we know that it wouldn't have worked? I legit thought it would have, but Rose just decided that it wasn't worth the cost of Finn's life
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Dec 16, 2017 21:33
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jivjov posted:Do we know that it wouldn't have worked? I legit thought it would have, but Rose just decided that it wasn't worth the cost of Finn's life It shows the guns melting, so unless his plan was to gently caress up the cannon by flying directly into it and jamming it, no.
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Dec 16, 2017 21:35
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PT6A posted:It shows the guns melting, so unless his plan was to gently caress up the cannon by flying directly into it and jamming it, no. I think that was his plan
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Dec 16, 2017 21:37
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PT6A posted:It shows the guns melting, so unless his plan was to gently caress up the cannon by flying directly into it and jamming it, no. Wasn't that the plan? Plan A was shoot it, but the guns melted, so Plan B was kamikaze, hence the whole "closing eyes, resigned to death" look
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Dec 16, 2017 21:38
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ungulateman posted:ah yes the Rebel Alliance to Restore the Republic restored...a completely different republic Way late on this but you do realize that for most of its history the Roman Empire wasn’t in Rome? You can change capitals with a new government. Not that crazy.
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Dec 16, 2017 21:40
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Neurolimal posted:I mean, if she didnt suicide bomb the rest of the escape ships would have been blown up. Can't they plug in some coordinates and let the computer take over? In a world with all this future tech they somehow don't have this basic capability? I know, I know, they wrote all the NOBLE DEATH plot devices first then twisted everything else to fit around them.
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Dec 16, 2017 21:40
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eggyolk posted:Can't they plug in some coordinates and let the computer take over? In a world with all this future tech they somehow don't have this basic capability? I know, I know, they wrote all the NOBLE DEATH plot devices first then twisted everything else to fit around them. That's not how autopilot works in A Galaxy Far, Far Away.
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Dec 16, 2017 21:43
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Bongo Bill posted:That's not how autopilot works in A Galaxy Far, Far Away. It was the same lame plot device at the start of the movie too.
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Dec 16, 2017 21:45
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eggyolk posted:[/spoiler] It makes more sense when you remember that star wars dogfights are based off WW2 naval battles, in that basic things like autopilot, three dimensional movement, and not needing fuel to continue moving (in space, where drag doesn't exist) aren't existing luxuries. IMO the problem with Finn is that his character arc started and finished in the initial escape in TFA (and his deciding to join the resistance arc, also in TFA). He's in a ROTJ Han situation where you could very easily replace him in any scene with a faceless guy holding a Death Star encyclopedia. Plotwise obviously, Boyega is great.
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Dec 16, 2017 21:53
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Loved this movie. Thought it built upon all the best bits of TFA (the new characters and their inter-personal conflicts) and evolved the worst part of it (the blatant rehashing of earlier films) by subverting your expectations and going a different direction each time it started to feel a little familiar. Felt the run-time was a little long. I was fully engaged up to the Kylo / Ray / Smokes battle, and half expected it to end there. Much of the follow up sequence on the Salt planet felt like an unnecessary and a forced homage to ESB and I started to tune out until Luke showed up. .
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Dec 16, 2017 21:58
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Well Manicured Man posted:Reflecting more on TLJ, I feel really bad for Finn. I think it's even worse than that in TFA. In TFA he could have saved the Republic fleet and probably hundreds of thousands (or millions/billions) if he had told BB8, Han and Poe about the Death Star immediately. He doesn't, and the Resistance loses. In essence you could edit Finn out of both movies with nothing lost. It's a huge bummer because Boyega is awesome
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Dec 16, 2017 22:03
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Chomposaur posted:It's a pretty big jump for the character. In RotJ he holds back and tries to redeem a sith lord who's been committing atrocities for decades. In this movie he sensed some darkness in his nephew, creeped into his tent at night, and was a hair's breadth from murdering him in his sleep before he regained his senses. Jedi are know for their poor decisions regarding trainees. He was tempted but he resisted it. And I think he was redeemed in the end, finding a "non-violent" solution just like he did in RotJ. In both movies he was prepared to sacrifice himself. I also see complaints about Luke throwing away the laser sword when this is kinda his thing
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Dec 16, 2017 22:08
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What's the deal with the RT audience score? Just review bombing by people trying to "trigger libs", or just a bit disconnect between what audiences and critics like, as is the case with The Orville (opposite direction on that one)?
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Dec 16, 2017 22:12
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eggyolk posted:Can't they plug in some coordinates and let the computer take over? In a world with all this future tech they somehow don't have this basic capability? I must have missed something about this plot point also, because I haven't seen anyone else gripe about it. But I remember them saying the reason they needed to get to the salt planet was to use its communication facilities to call their allies in for aid. This never seemed to make much sense when throughout the chase they were communicating across the galaxy with Mae, Fin and Rose, and even Ray with the binary tracker thing. I'm sure I missed something, and there were clearly other reasons to get there, had the cloaking transports plan worked, presumably they might have gotten away with hiding out there for awhile, but why not call for help mid pursuit?
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Dec 16, 2017 22:14
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Al Borland Corp. posted:What's the deal with the RT audience score? Just review bombing by people trying to "trigger libs", or just a bit disconnect between what audiences and critics like, as is the case with The Orville (opposite direction on that one)? It could be that people...didn't like the movie? There was a sort of palpable weirdness in my theater during a couple moments; it's certainly not everyone's bag Plus I wouldn't be too hasty to jump on the triggering wagon, plenty of folks in this thread seem to be getting their kicks out of people not liking this movie
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Dec 16, 2017 22:19
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I really enjoyed this. It does quite a few interesting things and I hope the next one is closer to this than to TFA. I liked the acknowledgement of the failures of the Jedi as well as some of the inherent problems in their religion. Something I'm hoping that the next movie continues with is the idea that what a Jedi is should change and become something different. Kylo Ren's desire to kill the past only applies to destroying things that are inconvenient to him. Yes, he kills Snoke but he still has his eye on Snoke's throne. Ren immediately takes over and just continues with what Snoke was planning on doing anyways. He talks big about shaking free from the past but in the end can only envision a world where he is in charge of existing institutions. This is in contrast to Luke, who destroys himself in order to allow the Jedi to become something new and different in Rey. I am hoping that the next film further explores this idea and doesn't have Rey just become a typical Jedi Master. I'll admit I'm not super confident that Abrams will do much with the idea.
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Dec 16, 2017 22:24
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Someone needs to come up with something meaningful for Finn to do because at this point he's just wacky black sidekick. The only reason I was interested in these new films was because I thought there was going to be a prominent black character in the series but it seems like he's just a ploy to add more diversity.
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Dec 16, 2017 22:26
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Waffles Inc. posted:It could be that people...didn't like the movie? There was a sort of palpable weirdness in my theater during a couple moments; it's certainly not everyone's bag Triggering as a primary motivation and enjoying watching insufferable people being triggered as a secondary effect are two completely different things, mon ami.
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Dec 16, 2017 22:28
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Gaunab posted:Someone needs to come up with something meaningful for Finn to do because at this point he's just wacky black sidekick. The only reason I was interested in these new films was because I thought there was going to be a prominent black character in the series but it seems like he's just a ploy to add more diversity. I mentioned it in the other thread, but a Stormtrooper rebellion/uprising led by Finn would be an interesting end to his arc.
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Dec 16, 2017 22:28
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Tenzarin posted:My favorite part is where Luke used the force to remove himself from the franchise. I'll admit, I actually cracked up laughing at this.
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Dec 16, 2017 22:30
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This movie is more difficult to absorb than JJ's largely safe episode 7, so as a consequence prepare for lots of posts from people who clearly don't want to understand it.
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Dec 16, 2017 22:32
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