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DrVenkman posted:I couldn't give a gently caress about RT user reviews, because from a quick glance I saw negative reviews talking about the treatment of *MEN* and I already knew where they were coming from. It's good positive reviews, it'll make a ton of money and I don't think that people moaning on Reddit will stop anything. It's star wars, of loving course it's going to make a mountain of money. That doesn't mean it's not deeply flawed.
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Dec 17, 2017 11:08
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Bunch of angry nerds ITT. Here’s the factually correct opinions to have about Star Wars: the OT is a fun romp but not very good really but since we all have our childhood nostalgia tied up with it it means that we hold it sacred much like to love for our parents even if they are deeply flawed people. The PT is trash because it’s just poorly made in every single regard. TFA, RO and now TLJ are all great, competently made and even well-acted movies that far outshine the OT on most levels and if you didn’t have your childhood reverence for the OT you would realize this too. TLJ might have some pacing issues but other than that you’d really be reaching to say that’s not great because it is E: some of the zany jokes were a bit meh but Star Wars not taking itself too seriously is a virtue. Also, Mark Hamill’s face (make up?) during Kylo Ren’s Rashomon flashback was super unsettling widunder fucked around with this message at 11:49 on Dec 17, 2017 |
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Dec 17, 2017 11:44
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I haven't seen a movie in a while that underestimates its audience this much; the writing was atrocious most of the time, almost every scene is two people saying things to each other that we already know. The exposition-levels were something out of a Saturday morning cartoon shows, right from the beginning where Poe was yelling at BB8 like "there are still enemy cannons left, we need to destroy them, otherwise they win!". Almost every line of dialogue felt like something out of a video game where someone is instructing you towards the next mission, in case you didn't understand by the visual storytelling (which was really good). So that was the biggest and most frustrating problem I had with it, because it kept ruining potentially awesome scenes. I mean, it was surprising and clever that they killed off Snoke already but even that was made really obvious and embarrassing with the subtle as a brick voice-over dialogue "yeees I can see see you want to kill your enemy, you turn on your lightsaber, you kill your enemy" or whatever the gently caress it was. It would have been much more effective without that, but I guess we simpletons wouldn't have understood the character's inner turmoil in this subtle and sophisticated character drama picture. And before someone tries to defend the lovely writing by saying it's a movie for kids, then why are the audiences 80% of men over 30? The exposition wasn't this bad in the Force Awakens where it would have been excusable with all the new characters they had to introduce, but I guess Disney just told Johnson to write the script as if it's for children who have no attention span (a new location = look at these cute Pixar animals, kids!). Other than that, it was beautifully filmed and at times exciting.
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Dec 17, 2017 11:52
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widunder posted:Bunch of angry nerds ITT. Here’s the factually correct opinions to have about Star Wars: the OT is a fun romp but not very good really but since we all have our childhood nostalgia tied up with it it means that we hold it sacred much like to love for our parents even if they are deeply flawed people. The PT is trash because it’s just poorly made in every single regard. TFA, RO and now TLJ are all great, competently made and even well-acted movies that far outshine the OT on most levels and if you didn’t have your childhood reverence for the OT you would realize this too. TLJ might have some pacing issues but other than that you’d really be reaching to say that’s not great because it is TFA and TLJ are not very good movies (granted, neither are the originals) - like the greatest praise you can muster is that they're competent, even though we can observe that they're full of bumbling mistakes like lacking any comprehensible conflict (granted, this is also true of the original trilogy as a whole). They mostly seem to get by thanks to appealing to people who childishly still identify with fictional characters and others who desperately want a political fantasy about vaguely liberal heroes fighting vaguely fascist villains. Rey is like young Democrats and Kylo Ren is like the Alt-right, apparently. Now Rogue One might surpass the originals, even if that's not a particularly great feat. It's a bit janky, but parts of it like the finale are basically better than anything that's come before in Star Wars. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 12:00 on Dec 17, 2017 |
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Dec 17, 2017 11:54
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It's really great that Kylo Ren sends a "hey u up?" text and a shirtless bathroom mirror selfie
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Dec 17, 2017 12:20
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Now Rogue One might surpass the originals, even if that's not a particularly great feat. It's a bit janky, but parts of it like the finale are basically better than anything that's come before in Star Wars. I liked rogue one more than the prequels or the new sequels but most likely not gonna be over the OT. Even though it killed dark forces it seemed like a good movie that was only connected to the series by the death star and didn't try to add on to this long and terrible story going on. In reality, they should just sever all ties to the OT say everyone died in some star war and give us a new story in the same universe. KOTOR 1 and I can't even imagine saying this KOTOR 2 even has a better story than anything they put out. Hell even dark forces 2 and Jedi outcast with its dumb valley of the jedi was better.
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Dec 17, 2017 13:06
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Y5sCLZjoLg
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Dec 17, 2017 13:51
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PostNouveau posted:"The new Star Wars movies are bad" is about the same level as "The D.C. superhero movies are good" where I'm just like, this person lives in another reality from me, and we're never gonna bridge that gap. both the new star wars movies and the dc superhero movies are bad. how hosed up is your brain right now
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Dec 17, 2017 14:26
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R. Guyovich posted:both the new star wars movies and the dc superhero movies are bad. how hosed up is your brain right now You're about half right.
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Dec 17, 2017 14:32
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Isometric Bacon posted:The opinion divide on this movie is really interesting. It seems like most people either absolutely despite it, or think it's fantastic. I mean I don't hate the movie. There's plenty of individual scenes and shots that I loved, and I don't regret seeing it-if anything, I'm just mainly disappointed for the same reason I was disappointed with TFA-it's effectively a remake of ESB (with some RotJ mixed in) with better effects and worse writing and editing. The Prequels may have been a mess, but at least they tried to tell a new story-the sequels feel creatively bankrupt by comparison, as thus far they've limited themselves to either retelling or subverting the stories, characters, and sequences of the OT. Edit: by contrast I really liked Rogue One, because it may have had a trainwreck of writing and editing but it was a new story that added to the OT and the Battle of Scarif was one of the raddest sequences in the entire series. It also had Y-Wings, and I love me some Y-Wings Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Dec 17, 2017 |
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Dec 17, 2017 14:35
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Acebuckeye13 posted:I mean I don't hate the movie. There's plenty of individual scenes and shots that I loved, and I don't regret seeing it-if anything, I'm just mainly disappointed for the same reason I was disappointed with TFA-it's effectively a remake of ESB (with some RotJ mixed in) with better effects and worse writing and editing. The Prequels may have been a mess, but at least they tried to tell a new story-the sequels feel creatively bankrupt by comparison, as thus far they've limited themselves to either retelling or subverting the stories, characters, and sequences of the OT. Man, they kept doing the same thing they already did, or explicitly not doing the same thing they already did, and either way I'm pissed off about it! It seems like a bit of an odd criticism, but, hey, you do you.
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Dec 17, 2017 14:40
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widunder posted:Bunch of angry nerds ITT. Here’s an angry nerd rant.
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Dec 17, 2017 14:49
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The Last Jedi is a pretty amazing movie. Sorry dorks.
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Dec 17, 2017 14:53
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LesterGroans posted:You're about half right. tlj isn't out in china yet so i may be proved wrong but tfa and r1 were decidedly ungood
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Dec 17, 2017 15:12
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R. Guyovich posted:tlj isn't out in china yet so i may be proved wrong but tfa and r1 were decidedly ungood I really enjoyed Last Jedi and thought Rogue One was all right, so I consider it an even split.
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Dec 17, 2017 15:14
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widunder posted:Bunch of angry nerds ITT. Here’s the factually correct opinions to have about Star Wars: the OT is a fun romp but not very good really but since we all have our childhood nostalgia tied up with it it means that we hold it sacred much like to love for our parents even if they are deeply flawed people. The PT is trash because it’s just poorly made in every single regard. TFA, RO and now TLJ are all great, competently made and even well-acted movies that far outshine the OT on most levels and if you didn’t have your childhood reverence for the OT you would realize this too. TLJ might have some pacing issues but other than that you’d really be reaching to say that’s not great because it is I heard this opinion about the time the Prequels were out about the OT being mediocre Nostalgia and AOTC being the hight of Star Wars.
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Dec 17, 2017 15:32
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gohmak posted:I heard this opinion about the time the Prequels were out about the OT being mediocre Nostalgia and AOTC being the hight of Star Wars. It is
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Dec 17, 2017 15:50
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UmOk posted:It is um ok
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Dec 17, 2017 16:05
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So I know full well that this is not a new observation...but I was just giving some thought that in Star Wars (at least the Numbered Episodes) we generally only see galactic governments in their twilight or fall. In the OT, the Rebellion is gaining more and more ground in the Galactic Civil War until they topple the Empire in VI. In the PT, the Old Republic is showing cracks as early as I and gets replaced with the Empire in III. And now in the ST, the New Republic pays an ultimate price for refusing to admit that there are threats out there. Kinda helps take the sting off of the OT heroes being in such low places when it's framed against the galactic backdrop.
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Dec 17, 2017 16:07
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:2. It straight up says that TFA is a bad movie and nobody gives a poo poo about its fake mysteries or lame rear end characters. Where does it say this? It's so weird when people try to project some sort of adversarial relation between TFA and TLJ. Every director, writer, and producer involved collaborated before a second of footage was made to draw out the plan for the overall trilogy. It's not like two hours and thirty minutes of finished and edited footage was created under cover of night, unbeknownst to anyone who would tell the other directors and writers. LesterGroans posted:It's really great that Kylo Ren sends a "hey u up?" text and a shirtless bathroom mirror selfie I loved that bit. It perfectly fits with him being an awkward underdeveloped kid. He might as well had done it in front of a wall of jedi school trophies and lightsabers. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Dec 17, 2017 |
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Dec 17, 2017 16:39
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I think the big thing fans are divided over is how to take the film saying " your fan theories are stupid, it doesn't matter who snoke is, it doesn't matter who is Rey's parents, stop obsessing with Jedi, stop obsessing with Sith, just let old things die and move on!" Like, that and the fact that the general theme of the film, even when it comes to their big plan that would work in any other action movie failing. Because, in real life, their plan is a terrible idea and good soldiers should follow orders understand the command may not want to tell them everything and that doesn't mean their evil, just the reality of waging war. People who get that's the theme areprobably more forgiving of Canto Bright, but those who don't pick up on that must have felt it dragged.
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Dec 17, 2017 16:43
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not trolled not crying posted:I haven't seen a movie in a while that underestimates its audience this much; the writing was atrocious most of the time, almost every scene is two people saying things to each other that we already know. The exposition-levels were something out of a Saturday morning cartoon shows, right from the beginning where Poe was yelling at BB8 like "there are still enemy cannons left, we need to destroy them, otherwise they win!". This times a thousand. The script felt like it was written for children.
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Dec 17, 2017 16:47
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Movie was great. Rougher around the edges than TFA maybe, but I really liked how it skirted expectations.
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Dec 17, 2017 16:47
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Covok posted:I think the big thing fans are divided over is how to take the film saying " your fan theories are stupid, it doesn't matter who snoke is, it doesn't matter who is Rey's parents, stop obsessing with Jedi, stop obsessing with Sith, just let old things die and move on!" I think people who are taking away "TLJ is saying let the past die" are taking what Kylo Ren as fact, when that's not the intent (IMO). My takeaway is that it wants the past to inform the future, but not dominate it and hold it back; Yoda burns the tree not to say "gently caress the past" but to teach Luke that he (a relic of the past) is better served helping the here-and-now rather than preserving crusty old teachings nobody will read. If anything, I'd call it a scathing indictment of elitist opinions of elder politicians and intellectuals that think repeating ideas to each other is more important than embracing reality and communicating with the people and their problems. Yoda burns Zizek's books and tells him to stop being a curmudgeon. This also works well with TFA's theme, where the new generation is aware of Star Wars, and defeats Star Wars preservists using and worshiping old Star Wars trivia and plans by the older generation being aware of such and informing the new generation. I mean, how does "gently caress the Past" square up with the fact that a literal projection of the past saves the resistance, without ever enforcing its will on the present? Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Dec 17, 2017 |
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Dec 17, 2017 16:50
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I really loved it. That said, I'm also forgiving of corny dialog and plot convinces because it's Star Wars, and it hits the beats that matter most- entertaining characters I want to root for, rad space battle scenes, and an underlying moral of hope.FlamingLiberal posted:
Counterpoint: nah it was dope. After spending twenty years on a lil' island wallowing in his regret he had a really dope one man stand against an army, exchanged words with the pupil that failed him, and gave the resistance an inspiring story to go recruit children soldiers with. At first I was a bit bummed he didn't go out in a larger way, but the whole notion that he finally was at peace is kinda a nice one. FlamingLiberal posted:
Counterpoint: Having her parents just be dirty hobos is delightful and underwhelming in the best way. Her not being Solo's other kid is a breathe of fresh air in a series where special bloodlines mean everything. FlamingLiberal posted:
Counterpoint: because he's so loving British. FlamingLiberal posted:
FlamingLiberal posted:
Counterpoint: "Hopelessly outmanned and outgunned" is quite literally what a second film in a trilogy does- gotta build up that tension. Star Wars are fun movies, but they stick pretty closely to what works storytellin wise. Also the movie answers what is going to happen next: they'll fly to a few planets, inspire a more child soldiers, and the good guys will win. FlamingLiberal posted:
Counterpoint: You say inconsistent, I say "Characters who want the same thing but have different ideas of how to do it". Ren's quick team up with Rei was wonderful, and that he immediately went from "yes let's burn the past- but also we should rule over everyone" is him embodying why he's a Sith. His reasoning is Dark Side 101, and Rei's "yes let's burn the past- oh but not that way ew" is why she's on team Light. FlamingLiberal posted:
Counterpoint: She's not Luke. That's ok. I don't quite see how you can watch this film and not see her arc tho. She became a jedi this movie, that's the arc. She: - Went to Luke's summer retreat to learn how to Jedi - Realized she moreso than kicking rear end she wanted to just understand her place - Learned from zen master Skywalker what the force is - Flirted with the dark side when it said "hey gurl, I got what you need" - Confronted scary dudes with nothing but ~hope~ and was proven ~kinda~ correct - Was tempted by the dark side and thoroughly rejected it, cementing her position in all this - Lifted some rocks, which means she's a jedi in all the ways that count, though still rough around the edges- as was Luke at this point You mention her flaws yourself in the impulsiveness bit, and she fails repeatedly from the dark side temptation stuff & actually saving Kylo. Sorry that you're bummed the movie didn't cut off her hand because of that. Of course, this is all jus my opinions and such.
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Dec 17, 2017 16:52
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Neurolimal posted:I think people who are taking away "TLJ is saying let the past die" are taking what Kylo Ren as fact, when that's not the intent (IMO). My takeaway is that it wants the past to inform the future, but not dominate it and hold it back; Yoda burns the tree not to say "gently caress the past" but to teach Luke that he (a relic of the past) is better served helping the here-and-now rather than preserving crusty old teachings nobody will read. If anything, I'd call it a scathing indictment of elitist opinions of elder politicians and intellectuals that think repeating ideas to each other is more important than embracing reality and communicating with the people and their problems. Yoda burns Zizek's books and tells him to stop being a curmudgeon. This is a good post and makes a valid opinion.
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Dec 17, 2017 16:55
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This movie stinks
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Dec 17, 2017 17:22
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ITT on a movie forum about movies someone called identifying with fictional characters stupid and childish. Writing ficition has been cancelled guys, we can all go home.
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Dec 17, 2017 17:41
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R. Guyovich posted:tlj isn't out in china yet so i may be proved wrong but tfa and r1 were decidedly ungood Rogue One was good.
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Dec 17, 2017 17:43
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I really like how this movie talked about the force. like how the force IS balence, not that the force is balanced. Like everything on the island is balanced with each other and like you COULD be an idiot and unbalance the force and lift up a rock but all you are doing is throwing things out of wack, even if it's just a tiny amount.
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Dec 17, 2017 17:49
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Ferrinus posted:Rogue One was good. It really, really needed better editing and a better script but it had Y-Wings so I'm willing to forgive a lot.
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Dec 17, 2017 17:54
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Acebuckeye13 posted:It really, really needed better editing and a better script Yeah but what Star wars film doesn't need that though?
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Dec 17, 2017 17:56
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I’ve seen this twice now and I’m confident in saying that there’s a large group of Star Wars fans out there who will simply never be pleased by a Star Wars movie again.
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Dec 17, 2017 17:57
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sportsgenius86 posted:I’ve seen this twice now and I’m confident in saying that there’s a large group of Star Wars fans out there who will simply never be pleased by a Star Wars movie again. Yeah It's nice tho that we have another good Star Wars movie that is hated by fans. It will mix up the thread a bit.
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Dec 17, 2017 18:00
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Covok posted:
I think there's a second lesson for command embedded in there, too. Something Poe and (now) Admiral Curly White Haired lady are going to have to deal with as the ranking Rebel officers under Leia. Soldiers should not just assume they immediately know better than command because they weren't told what the plan was, however, command does need to place more faith in their subordinates to make mature decisions, especially when they've shown admirable skill and dedication to the cause. Poe/Finn/Rose don't run off or mutiny if Holdo clues them in on the transport escape and a lot more Rebels survive as a result. Poe is literally the dude to trust with that, given how many important missions he's executed for the Resistance. This lack of dialogue between experienced/inexperienced is mirrored in Luke/Kylo's failure as well, since Luke's knee-jerk instinct was to fire up the lightsaber, even though he knew it was wrong a split second later. That's why Yoda/late movie Luke/Rey get it right and are good guys, since they're working with the lessons of the past to build a better future, but Kylo just says "gently caress everything, I'll do it myself." euphronius posted:Yeah It'll be a nice change of pace to be on the "prequel defenders" side with you this time.
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Dec 17, 2017 18:02
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Rian basically dunked all over JJ's work from Ep7 and I love it. Gong again to see it in Imax this time.
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Dec 17, 2017 18:10
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sportsgenius86 posted:I’ve seen this twice now and I’m confident in saying that there’s a large group of Star Wars fans out there who will simply never be pleased by a Star Wars movie again.
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Dec 17, 2017 18:30
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sportsgenius86 posted:I’ve seen this twice now and I’m confident in saying that there’s a large group of Star Wars fans out there who will simply never be pleased by a Star Wars movie again. But how do you know they didn't enjoy TFA and/or Rogue One?
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Dec 17, 2017 18:47
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Neurolimal posted:I'd call it a scathing indictment of elitist opinions of elder politicians and intellectuals that think repeating ideas to each other is more important than embracing reality and communicating with the people and their problems. Luke is not a politician, an intellectual, or an elitist. Luke is a grimy old hermit / dairy farmer. What makes him an intellectual? The fact that he owns a book?
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Dec 17, 2017 18:50
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Luke is not a politician, an intellectual, or an elitist. And lightsabers aren't dicks. Lightsabers are laser swords.
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Dec 17, 2017 18:54
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