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holdo didn't know Poe and he did not make a good first impression . That's reason enough to not tell him her plans.
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Dec 17, 2017 22:05
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FlamingLiberal posted:It's a poor plot contrivance. They have to make this new leader seem kinda shady (for some reason), and the last thing you want to do in a desperate situation where the people under your command are deserting and losing faith is to just brush them off when they ask how they are going to get out of this situation that is not looking good. Uhhh...yeah, that's exactly my point. I get why Holdo didn't tell Poe anything (he's a glorywhore who just got put in Leia's doghouse for getting a large chunk of pilots killed), but it was absolutely the wrong call. I get why Poe mutinied, since as far as he knows she's just leading the Resistance to a slow death. An open dialogue would have fixed that, which is one of those things this movie made a huge point about.
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Dec 17, 2017 22:12
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euphronius posted:holdo didn't know Poe and he did not make a good first impression . That's reason enough to not tell him her plans. On that thought, I loved this movie for calling out Poe on his dangerous cocksure risks, directly disobeying orders and highlighting that his actions resulted in people getting killed. It was another nice reverse trope which I didn't expect from a blockbuster.
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Dec 17, 2017 22:13
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I heard Master Yoda talking about intellectuals, I was wondering, what are intellectuals?
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Dec 17, 2017 22:16
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Filthy Casual posted:Uhhh...yeah, that's exactly my point. I get why Holdo didn't tell Poe anything (he's a glorywhore who just got put in Leia's doghouse for getting a large chunk of pilots killed), but it was absolutely the wrong call. I get why Poe mutinied, since as far as he knows she's just leading the Resistance to a slow death. An open dialogue would have fixed that, which is one of those things this movie made a huge point about. So the point isn’t that being a cocksure, hotshot, do at it alone, war movie trope is bad in and of itself, it’s that it’s only bad when your boss secretly has a really good idea they won’t tell you about? Also, what else in the movie does an open dialogue fix? Rey and Kylo have one and end up the mortalest of enemies. The New Order only learns about the escaping transports because Poe tells Finn about the plan. Luke doesn’t tell anyone about his plan at the end and it works perfectly.
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Dec 17, 2017 22:20
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Vintersorg posted:That's pretty much what is happening here and people are being serious about it. It's really loving gross and a childish dismissal of others opinions on the movie. lmao a post about how liking a movie means needing to grow up. Amazing.
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Dec 17, 2017 22:25
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YOLOsubmarine posted:So the point isn’t that being a cocksure, hotshot, do at it alone, war movie trope is bad in and of itself, it’s that it’s only bad when your boss secretly has a really good idea they won’t tell you about? Two things can be bad at the same time. quote:Also, what else in the movie does an open dialogue fix? Rey and Kylo have one and end up the mortalest of enemies. The New Order only learns about the escaping transports because Poe tells Finn about the plan. Luke doesn’t tell anyone about his plan at the end and it works perfectly. Luke's entire failure with Kylo was the gut instinct to snuff him out when he sensed darkness instead of, y'know...talking to the kid.
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Dec 17, 2017 22:25
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Was Poes decision in the opening battle actually the wrong one? Didn't he say the dreadnaught was a fleet kill or something? Sounds like it's worth losing a squadron of bombers for.
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Dec 17, 2017 22:31
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Vintersorg posted:That's pretty much what is happening here and people are being serious about it. It's really loving gross and a childish dismissal of others opinions on the movie. Chill out, it's just a Star Wars movie, enjoy yourself.
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Dec 17, 2017 22:34
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Filthy Casual posted:Two things can be bad at the same time. Both people being wrong means that the only thing the movie is saying is “people should talk more” and any interesting points about the value and wisdom of individual heroics are dulled.
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Dec 17, 2017 22:35
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AndyElusive posted:Chill out, it's just a Star Wars movie, enjoy yourself. This. The whole premise of Star Wars is absurd. Rian Johnson takes that and runs with it and it's glorious.
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Dec 17, 2017 22:44
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Mahoning posted:Yep. Did you miss that it was his mission and that if he hadn't taken out the dreadnaught it would've destroyed the cruiser and killed Leia, 3PO, Holdo and everyone else? It was literally preparing to fire as the bombs hit it. Guess so. Everyone seems to miss the specifics of the very first scene in the film.
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Dec 17, 2017 23:06
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CODChimera posted:Was Poes decision in the opening battle actually the wrong one? Didn't he say the dreadnaught was a fleet kill or something? Sounds like it's worth losing a squadron of bombers for. If your entire fleet is 3 ships, any Imperial ship is a fleet killer. What the rebels really should have been doing all along was suicide Hyperspace jump some X-wings into Star Destroyers. One Mon Calamari cruiser rips apart an entire fleet, it stands to reason an X-wing can do some serious damage.
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Dec 17, 2017 23:10
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Milky Moor posted:Did you miss that it was his mission and that if he hadn't taken out the dreadnaught it would've destroyed the cruiser and killed Leia, 3PO, Holdo and everyone else? It was literally preparing to fire as the bombs hit it. Isn't the only reason the cruiser was still sticking around long enough to be fired on was that Poe went through with the dreadnought attack? If he had stopped when Leia told him to, they would have just jumped to lightspeed and peaced out. Of course, this means that they would have had to take out the dreadnought anyway once the First Order showed up.
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Dec 17, 2017 23:11
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MajorB posted:Isn't the only reason the cruiser was still sticking around long enough to be fired on was that Poe went through with the dreadnought attack? If he had stopped out when Leia told him to, they would have just jumped to lightspeed and peaced out. The huge slow bombers (they are probably the slowest SW ships seen on screen) were never going to outrun the quick and nimble TIEs during a retreat. There would still be a wait involved.
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Dec 17, 2017 23:14
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Those bombers looked like huge, older B-Wings
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Dec 17, 2017 23:19
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Milky Moor posted:Guess so. Everyone seems to miss the specifics of the very first scene in the film. If they weren't waiting for those ships to come back they would have jumped, and never been in any danger. Weird hill for you to die on, defending his lovely suicide attack of a meaningless ship.
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Dec 17, 2017 23:20
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I feel the need to point out this is a movie series where the bad guys attack a base by sending tanks on legs that make them easier to knock over. "Strategy" is kinda loose in these movies.
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Dec 17, 2017 23:24
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Are the bombers always on suicide runs? I was not at all clear on how they were going to get out of there even if things went swimmingly.
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Dec 17, 2017 23:27
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For some reason, one of my favourite parts of this was C3P0 doing gently caress all throughout the movie. Like even all characters in-universe know he sucks
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Dec 17, 2017 23:32
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Mulva posted:If they weren't waiting for those ships to come back they would have jumped, and never been in any danger. Weird hill for you to die on, defending his lovely suicide attack of a meaningless ship. The bombers were already in the air. They would've had to wait for them to come back. Poe's whole attack on the surface guns was so they could be brought in, and the first shot we see of them is in space. Weird hill for you to die on, admitting to not watching the film.
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Dec 17, 2017 23:34
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YOLOsubmarine posted:Also, what else in the movie does an open dialogue fix? Rey and Kylo have one and end up the mortalest of enemies. As a result of their open dialogue, Kylo is able to finally defeat "his true enemy" and Rey manages to save what's left of the Resistance. The fact that they weren't able to overcome that final barrier to actually become allies is because they were ultimately too focused on who they wanted the other person to be rather than they actually were. It's not (just) open dialog, it's trust.
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Dec 17, 2017 23:37
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euphronius posted:holdo didn't know Poe and he did not make a good first impression . That's reason enough to not tell him her plans. I thought it would have been funny for Poe to say, "Why didn't you just tell me your plan in the first place!?" And she could tell him it was on a need-to-know basis and his recent demotion landed him among those who did not need to know. Also fridge corn posted:Episode 8 is really good
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Dec 17, 2017 23:40
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[quote="“Schwarzwald”" post="“479431958”"] As a result of their open dialogue, Kylo is able to finally defeat “his true enemy” and Rey manages to save what’s left of the Resistance. The fact that they weren’t able to overcome that final barrier to actually become allies is because they were ultimately too focused on who they wanted the other person to be rather than they actually were. It’s not (just) open dialog, it’s trust. [/quote] They aren’t allies because one of them wants to rule the universe and the other doesn’t want him to do that. Probably trusting each other more wouldn’t change that.
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Dec 17, 2017 23:42
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Poe is really bad at opsec.
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Dec 17, 2017 23:42
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Seriously why does this mean so much to you? He's manifestly a bad leader, as he leads two more stupid ops in the movie. His "redemption" is in realizing how stupid his final suicide attack is and calling it off, and even then he still loses like half the people he sent out. He's not good at his job. It's like there's nothing unclear about it in the movie, he's not good at the job. As has been said, the most unrealistic part of this movie is why he wasn't shot in the face for treason.
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Dec 17, 2017 23:49
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Mulva posted:Seriously why does this mean so much to you? He's manifestly a bad leader, as he leads two more stupid ops in the movie. His "redemption" is in realizing how stupid his final suicide attack is and calling it off, and even then he still loses like half the people he sent out. He's not good at his job. It's like there's nothing unclear about it in the movie, he's not good at the job. As has been said, the most unrealistic part of this movie is why he wasn't shot in the face for treason. "Luckily" for him, the resistance is now about three boatloads of people who were probably IT staff for ships that no longer exist, and a few rungs of the ladder have opened up.
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Dec 18, 2017 00:04
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Peter Principle at work. Star Wars is so educational
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Dec 18, 2017 00:06
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nimby posted:If your entire fleet is 3 ships, any Imperial ship is a fleet killer. What the rebels really should have been doing all along was suicide Hyperspace jump some X-wings into Star Destroyers. One Mon Calamari cruiser rips apart an entire fleet, it stands to reason an X-wing can do some serious damage. True true, that sounds like a war winning move. Lol at shooting Poe, their best pilot and the most competent person in the Resistance. But he's not very competent I hear you cry.... exactly.
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Dec 18, 2017 00:08
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Can't the individual ships just warp away if they are disengaging? Anyways I like that there is an actual payoff from the attack on Starkiller having a whopping seven ships return. Also given the difference in scale it is a bit hard to believe that Leia's summer camp is a big client of any random ship builder. Does the normal Republic use X-wings or something?
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Dec 18, 2017 00:16
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Mulva posted:Seriously why does this mean so much to you? He's manifestly a bad leader, as he leads two more stupid ops in the movie. His "redemption" is in realizing how stupid his final suicide attack is and calling it off, and even then he still loses like half the people he sent out. He's not good at his job. It's like there's nothing unclear about it in the movie, he's not good at the job. As has been said, the most unrealistic part of this movie is why he wasn't shot in the face for treason. The difficulty in these discussions is that you’re talking about, like, reading the movie as if it were just a script, as if what you’re watching is a documentary of real events that have happened The movie shows us that Poe is an incredibly talented pilot whose attack on the dreadnaught is successful insofar as it stops the resistance fleet from being killed.
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Dec 18, 2017 00:16
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I think the prequels are trash, but I really enjoyed TLJ. That’s my review. Also glad I went in having heard (not a plot spoiler) it was so joke heavy. I might have reacted to that poorly like so many others as you go into this expecting the opposite. Also that one shot everyone loves. Good grief. This may have been the first SW I ever went into “unspoiled.” Specifically stayed away from SA this past week to make sure. Too early to tell but I’d rank this one highly, looking forward to Johnson’s trilogy.
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Dec 18, 2017 00:23
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You should retry the prequels (well aotc and rots) of you like tlj. Those two movies reward careful viewing.
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Dec 18, 2017 00:24
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Especially since an important part of TLJ supports and validates the more "redemptive" readings of the prequels found itt.
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Dec 18, 2017 00:27
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I watched this movie. Is too long and the script did not made much sense. I liked parts of it for the visuals, like that huge ship hyperflying through other ship. Most of the people on this thread seems to like the movie. Good, I guess.
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Dec 18, 2017 00:28
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Saw it tonight. I enjoyed it, but it felt to me very much a second part in a trilogy. Whilst TFA was the "rebirth" so to speak, this was bridging the gap between TFA and Ep 9. I think it's a film I'm going to come back to after the trilogy is complete and really be able to tell if it works.
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Dec 18, 2017 00:37
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Waffles Inc. posted:The movie shows us that Poe is an incredibly talented pilot whose attack on the dreadnaught is successful insofar as it stops the resistance fleet from being killed. But the movie also shows us that while Poe is a badass and talented pilot, his actions are reckless and come at a great cost. The film is pretty explicit about that. Worse is when you realize his insubordination is directly responsible for the deaths of likely hundreds of resistance fighters. Had he not given Finn and Rose the go ahead to find Maz's codebreaker on Canto Bight, the transports carrying the remaining resistance forces retreating to Crait wouldn't have been detected by the First Order's auto gently caress-off canons because Benecio del Toro would have never given up any info in the first place. Poe is cool, but he's a hot-headed maverick that makes bad choices in TLJ several times over. Unless I'm remembering that wrong.
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Dec 18, 2017 00:39
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Spoiler failure
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Dec 18, 2017 00:39
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euphronius posted:Spoiler failure lol I was gonna say spoilers bro but based on your post one of the things i'm potentially most excited about for episode IX is Rey building herself a lightsaber please let this happen
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Dec 18, 2017 00:42
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trash person posted:lol I was gonna say spoilers bro Yeah I thought it was cool af they had the exposed crystal in the laser sword* They can go anywhere but a return of the Jedi Rey would own. Dressed in black, moody and not taking anyone's poo poo. * canon name
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Dec 18, 2017 00:45
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