|
jiggerypokery posted:The OT was serious enough in themes/plot/character development that there scope for Family Guy to spoof it. The Last Jedi had the pacing and humour of the Family Guy version, rather than the OT. One of the trademarks of George Lucas's Star Wars is that it plays very goofy material with complete sincerity.
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 16:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 06:40 |
|
|
jiggerypokery posted:The OT was serious enough in themes/plot/character development that there scope for Family Guy to spoof it. The Last Jedi had the pacing and humour of the Family Guy version, rather than the OT. I honestly have no idea what you're talking about, so I'm going to duck out here.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 16:15
|
|
|
The family guy OT was better than the OT tho.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 16:15
|
|
|
Mr. Flunchy posted:If you wanted to stretch a teeny bit you could say that the film is being subversive by showing the kids making their own Star Wars toys rather than buying them. Huh. That makes it really creepy, actually. Force sensitives are predisposed to a weird kind of idolatry? Like if in the next movie they find a weird force sensitive hermit, is he going to have a shack full of crudely carved idols? "I always knew you'd come." 
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 16:16
|
|
|
Sharkopath posted:Some people had initial negative reactions and some people had initial positive reactions. When the two meet they polarize their starting positions further. It's cool. I walked out of the theater thinking it was kind of bad but now I like it a lot, and am thinking it might be my favorite after Empire.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 16:19
|
|
|
Shanty posted:Huh. That makes it really creepy, actually. Force sensitives are predisposed to a weird kind of idolatry? Like if in the next movie they find a weird force sensitive hermit, is he going to have a shack full of crudely carved idols? The only other toys we see in star wars are Luke's ship that he pretend-flies while in his garage and then Jyn's stormtrooper doll. Probably not enough for a series long motif but Rey, those kids and Luke are all characters whose minds are not on the present. It's a fun one to thing about, especially given how toys were such a huge factor in the success of the franchise IRL, including them introducing character/species names not said in the movies themselves Waffles Inc. fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Dec 18, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 16:22
|
|
|
Four out of nine Star Wars films featuring toys seems like quite a lot.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 16:23
|
|
|
Waffles Inc. posted:The only other toys we see in star wars are Luke's ship that he pretend-flies while in his garage and then Jyn's stormtrooper doll You could argue that C3PO is Anakin's childhood construction kit.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 16:24
|
|
|
jiggerypokery posted:The original trilogy wasn't really going for 'fun and entertaining'. They were far-eastern mythology (books like Musashi) repackaged in a sci-fi setting for a western family audience. Lol people are so desperate to bash this movie by any means necessary, bending reality itself to do so. "it's a bad thing that the star wars movie is fun and entertaining, which the originals definitely were not" "this movie did not emphasize far east mythology, with its central plot being about that and the climactic moment a smash cut to a spiritual master meditating in a lotus position"
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 16:24
|
|
|
There is a scoop ball catcher in anakins bedroom.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 16:24
|
|
|
Mr. Flunchy posted:You could argue that C3PO is Anakin's childhood construction kit. Ah that's a great point. That makes Rey, Anakin and the TLJ kids all characters who created star wars themselves
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 16:25
|
|
|
Anakin seems like he would have been more of a play outside and tinker with stuff kind of kid than a play with dolls kind of kid. Of course, his childhood was cut pretty short...
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 16:27
|
|
|
tadashi posted:Anakin seems like he would have been more of a play outside and tinker with stuff kind of kid than a play with dolls kind of kid. Of course, his childhood was cut pretty short... Rey made her living as a scavenger and obviously had experience with the workings of ships and such so I'm not sure what you're saying here if you're trying to distinguish Anakin from Rey/Force kid.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 16:35
|
|
|
It's been so long since I've watched TPM, AotC and RotS that Anakin's story from child slave who tinkered with droids and pod racers to full blown Sith has become like a fuzzy memory to me. I kind of like it that way.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 16:36
|
|
|
Saw it this weekend, and will be seeing it again tonight. Which is good, because I'm having a hard time exactly nailing down how I feel about it. For the most part, I really liked it, but it seemed to lack any sense of structure, which made it feel longer than it already was. Everything else I'd like to say has already been said, and again, mostly those things I'd say are extremely positive, because I really liked it. But I'm struggling with one part, because I don't want to be all "Not my Luke Skywalker!!!" but I'm having a hard time with Luke even considering murdering his own nephew. Probably the biggest thing Luke ever did was trusting his father was not beyond redemption, and he was space Hitler. Meanwhile, Ben, who hasn't actually done anything wrong yet, might be worth murdering in his sleep? Like, I get that was the crux of his character here, that he is overcome with guilt for even considering it, but I had a hard time accepting the premise in the first place. I want to see how I feel watching it again knowing what's coming.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 16:40
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:The obvious point of the costuming, that everyone is skipping over, is that Poe’s sexism is rooted in a larger class conflict within the Resistance. This is correct.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 16:41
|
|
|
Zoran posted:One of the trademarks of George Lucas's Star Wars is that it plays very goofy material with complete sincerity. I enjoyed Armond White's take on this. Armond posted:If you look past the superficial narrative and cultural continuity, The Last Jedi works like any other Millennial action film. Written and directed by indie Rian Johnson, who retires his neo-noir specialty for his own youthful fantasy of trying on George Lucas’ space boots, The Last Jedi is largely tongue-in-cheek. Johnson is incapable of taking the organic themes seriously. Sarcasm is the coinage of modern commerce, not Lucas’s corny family commitment and nationalism. So Johnson’s ironic dialogue occasionally deflates the meaning behind derring-do, while attempting to revive it. All the relationships are flip, except for Rey’s with Luke Skywalker, in her obligatory fealty as she attempts to revive his sense of mission. But as critic Gregory Solman pointed out, this isn’t reflected in Kylo Ren’s personal conflict; Kylo gets reduced to Good-versus-Evil pouting. (Hey, it was only patricide!) Instead of achieving grand operatic depth or the emotional intensity of Fritz Lang’s Die Niebelugend and John Boorman’s Excalibur, Johnson is just goofy enough to keep fans holding on, renewing their dedication to the series and leaving them, like Elvis movie fans, content with their own complaisance.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 16:41
|
|
|
He had momentary impulse to stop Ren because he saw him becoming a Sith Emperor. Which ended up happening.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 16:42
|
|
|
I'm still trying to parse this film in my head, it had a lot of the same strengths and weaknesses as The Force Awakens. Specifically, the strengths are the charming characters, who feel more like genuine Star Wars characters than anything George Lucas has created in more than thirty years; and the weakness is a script that is unnecessarily convoluted, and tries way too much to follow the story beats of a previous film. It is bold of Rian Johnson to to have his characters fail so spectacularly. Just about every decision made by Poe (and a lesser degree, Finn) led to the almost total destruction of the Resistance. Despite all that failure, the movie tries to end on a positive note: the survivors talk about how they are the spark that will bring down the First Order, and we close the film with the image of a young boy inspired to fight back. The music swells, and we are supposed to leave the theatre optimistic. The thing is, even that mildly positive ending is undercut by the rest of the film. A major plot point was that, once the Resistance gets to their new secret base, they can send a message to all their allies and get help. They actually do send the message and...nothing happens. Nobody comes to their aide. Despite the fact that the Starkiller base was destroyed just days or weeks before the events of this film, the Resistance fails completely to rally any kind of support. The spark fails to ignite anything. Why, after the events in this film, with the Resistance reduced to a dozen people on the Falcon, all their capital ships destroyed, and Kylo Ren firmly in control of the First Order, is there any reason to believe that they will have any success in inspiring another new rebellion? If anything, the film almost seems to be saying that maybe resistance is useless, all it does is get a bunch of people killed, and does nothing to topple the oppressor. Maybe the First Order should be left alone to rule the galaxy, oppressors or not. It's a dark, dark message for a Star Wars film.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 16:43
|
|
|
Sinding Johansson posted:It was a film completely devoid of substance Totally. Themes on failure, sacrifice, admitting your faults, moving forward are all absolutely meaningless.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 16:46
|
|
|
The lack of response happens and THEN Luke appears. He is the spark. And presumably Rey will continue it. That's why Leia was searching for Luke and why Snoke wanted to kill him. His legend (not him) was powerful enough to keep the resistance going.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 16:46
|
|
|
thrawn527 posted:Saw it this weekend, and will be seeing it again tonight. Which is good, because I'm having a hard time exactly nailing down how I feel about it. For the most part, I really liked it, but it seemed to lack any sense of structure, which made it feel longer than it already was. It's definitely too long; the end series of setpieces feels like it should have been a little quicker with a step or two removed along the way. I'm not really sure how you do that but it probably involves a complete rewrite of how the transport escape and ensuing siege plays out. thrawn527 posted:Everything else I'd like to say has already been said, and again, mostly those things I'd say are extremely positive, because I really liked it. But I'm struggling with one part, because I don't want to be all "Not my Luke Skywalker!!!" but I'm having a hard time with Luke even considering murdering his own nephew. My initial reaction was that it's awesome they were willing to push a beloved character that far. After some more time though I kind of agree that it feels a bit too far. Consider this, though: what Luke says set him off wasn't Kylo going dark, it was that he saw Kylo destroying everything and everyone he loved. His previous greatest failure, going apeshit on Vader and nearly killing him in rage, was under similar circumstances, when Vader learned about Leia and was going to go after her too. Luke's loved ones are the key to his soul.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 16:47
|
|
|
thrawn527 posted:
I think it's less he wanted to defeat the evil sith kylo and more that he saw that he had defeated darth vader then just made a new darth vader and that as long as there was jedi it'd just be jedi killing sith and sith killing jedi forever and ever till the end of time and he had the chance to just end it all. No more jedi, no more sith, force in balance finally.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 16:47
|
|
|
euphronius posted:He had momentary impulse to stop Ren because he saw him becoming a Sith Emperor. Which ended up happening. Luke even channels Mace Windu in the scene, and is punished for his act in a similar way Anakin also stops both. Once literally and the other because Luke's lesson in saving Darth Vader was that redemption is possible is what staid his hand
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 16:50
|
|
|
Waffles Inc. posted:Luke even channels Mace Windu in the scene, and is punished for his act in the same way Yeah. I love that. I think Like alludes to this directly in his speech next to the yin yang pool. But it makes sense then why Luke thought the Jedi should end: they are only good at creating Sith Lords
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 16:52
|
|
|
euphronius posted:He had momentary impulse to stop Ren because he saw him becoming a Sith Emperor. Which ended up happening. Also he killed like 20 billion people in ep 7.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 16:52
|
|
|
Tender Bender posted:My initial reaction was that it's awesome they were willing to push a beloved character that far. After some more time though I kind of agree that it feels a bit too far. Consider this, though: what Luke says set him off wasn't Kylo going dark, it was that he saw Kylo destroying everything and everyone he loved. His previous greatest failure, going apeshit on Vader and nearly killing him in rage, was under similar circumstances, when Vader learned about Leia and was going to go after her too. Luke's loved ones are the key to his soul. The thing is, that cuts both ways - Ben should have been one of his loved ones too. Like, can you imagine Luke even for a moment considering attacking Leia or Han, even to save the other? Shouldn't their child be just as close to his heart? Or are we meant to imagine that Luke somehow wasn't that close to Ben, that he only saw him as a student, not as family? Because that seems to be undermining the whole contrast between Luke and the old Jedi, that he was the first trained Force-user in generations who actually had a fairly normal upbringing, who related to people as family and friends, not just as masters and apprentices. I gotta give a lot of praise to Mark Hamill for almost making me buy it, and maybe if we'd had a whole film to set up the relationship rather than just a few seconds of flashback he could have sold me on it entirely - but as it is, no, it doesn't work. It's story at the expense of characters, and I think that's a weakness all through the film. Angry Salami fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Dec 18, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 16:54
|
|
|
Also how long after ep 7 does this take place? Everyone in the Star Wars universe seems pretty chill with people getting space holocausted in general.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 16:55
|
|
|
DentArthurDent posted:Why, after the events in this film, with the Resistance reduced to a dozen people on the Falcon, all their capital ships destroyed, and Kylo Ren firmly in control of the First Order, is there any reason to believe that they will have any success in inspiring another new rebellion? By watching the film? The failure for a call to help comes before Luke arrives. Luke's sacrifice and final stand against the Order becomes the spark. He literally shows up RIGHT after Leia says that in fact and the last shot of the film is a child inspired by Luke Skywalker wearing the secret ring of the rebellion.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 16:56
|
|
|
Angry Salami posted:The thing is, that cuts both ways - Ben should have been one of his loved ones too. Like, can you imagine Luke even for a moment considering attacking Leia or Han, even to save the other? Shouldn't their child be just as close to his heart? A scene where luke and han fight but stop at the last minute is in like every other star wars book because it seems like a thing that would happen.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 16:57
|
|
|
Also is Nein Numb still alive, they had room for like 20 people in the falcon max.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 16:57
|
|
|
Angry Salami posted:The thing is, that cuts both ways - Ben should have been one of his loved ones too. Like, can you imagine Luke even for a moment considering attacking Leia or Han, even to save the other? Shouldn't their child be just as close to his heart? Can you imagine the monastic peacekeeping force who stood "as the guardians of justice for a thousand generations" unilaterally wanting to depose the president of space and then after being punished for that hubris deciding to murder him without trial? My point is that your discomfort with Luke is the "correct" response. He's even uncomfortable with himself
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 16:57
|
|
|
Bip Roberts posted:Also how long after ep 7 does this take place? Everyone in the Star Wars universe seems pretty chill with people getting space holocausted in general. It seems like a day or two. most of the universe had already gone with the first order by the time Hosnian System is nuked.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 16:57
|
|
|
euphronius posted:The lack of response happens and THEN Luke appears. He is the spark. And presumably Rey will continue it. That's why Leia was searching for Luke and why Snoke wanted to kill him. His legend (not him) was powerful enough to keep the resistance going. There's a( I believe) deleted scene from TFA with Snoke telling Kylo about how Skywalker is a beacon of hope for the resistance. So that's exactly right.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 16:59
|
|
|
Angry Salami posted:The thing is, that cuts both ways - Ben should have been one of his loved ones too. Like, can you imagine Luke even for a moment considering attacking Leia or Han, even to save the other? Shouldn't their child be just as close to his heart? Yeah, I dunno. It's a tough thing to figure out. You're right that part of the problem is that we don't know what exactly he saw: Was it just a threat of future actions? Was Ben actively planning something? What did his connection to Snoke entail? In general though I have a hard time saying that a character doing (or thinking about doing) something in the heat of a traumatic moment is "wrong". People are weird. As a viewer, the character of Luke has built enough goodwill with me that I believe him when he says what he saw caused him to think about it for a moment, and also that he immediately rejected it and knows it was the worst thing he ever did. On that note imagine what poor Chewbacca felt when he landed that gutshot on Kylo 
Tender Bender fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Dec 18, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 17:01
|
|
|
Tender Bender posted:On that note imagine what poor Chewbacca felt when he landed that gutshot on Kylo Yeah, it's tough on poor Chewie but also incredibly true to his characterization that he didn't hesitate to kill his essentially adoptive nephew 
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 17:05
|
|
|
Tender Bender posted:Yeah, I dunno. It's a tough thing to figure out. You're right that part of the problem is that we don't know what exactly he saw: Was it just a threat of future actions? Was Ben actively planning something? What did his connection to Snoke entail? In general though I have a hard time saying that a character doing (or thinking about doing) something in the heat of a traumatic moment is "wrong". People are weird. Yeah, this is all true, and why I want to see it again. Also, I like that there's a conflict I can question, and isn't just, "We need to kill bad buys, because they're bad." It's a good movie. Just a hard one to wrap my head around after one viewing.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 17:06
|
|
|
Slow car chase plot would probably have worked better if they played it like the Battle Star Galatica plot. With the Rebel ship warping away having a little breathing room then Empire warps in after tracking them. Rebels then warp away again. Do this a few cycles with it known that they are running out of fuel to keep warping. Movie ending is a space battle at the last chance to warp with Finn and Rose racing to shut down the tracker. Rey gets somewhat injured in throne room. Finn and Rose are there to fly her out. Actually scrap Rose all together and make it Finn and Poe racing to shut down the tracker. This would have been a good time to get a lot of bonding between Poe and Finn in. So far they have barely had any scenes together. Keep pretty much all the rest of Rey and Kylo stuff the same. Save Luke for some more scenes in Final Movie The slow car chase they put in the movie was just dumb dumb dumb. Raccooon fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Dec 18, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 17:14
|
|
|
It wasn't really a chase in the traditional way; there was no risk of one party getting away. The empire could have stopped their ships and sat there doing nothing and still caught up with the rebels at any time--they can track them through hyperspace What we're shown is close to the ships simply sitting still; it's a siege
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 17:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 06:40 |
|
|
IDK it just looks dumb in a movie. I get that from the Empires view they can just sit there and wait taking no losses. But, its boring as poo poo to watch. Plus, the movie as written could have scrapped Finn and Poe entirely with no real difference.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 17:21
|
|