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RandomPauI posted:How would that cause a derail? They were potentially going 79mph going into a curve with a 30mph speed limit. Also https://twitter.com/FlightProfile/status/942859979312287744
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Dec 18, 2017 22:10
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Sounds like too much speed: https://jalopnik.com/amtrak-train-derailment-onto-highway-in-tacoma-reported-1821387267 The first hand report suggests they hit a truck, but there is no grade crossing near that spot. Nearest one in the direction they were traveling was 3 miles earlier.
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Dec 18, 2017 23:29
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It looked like a Genesis up front, not a Charger. That said, maybe a hi-rail vehicle on the tracks? I don't know.
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Dec 18, 2017 23:44
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Sirotan posted:They were potentially going 79mph going into a curve with a 30mph speed limit. According to the Jalopnik article one of the passengers is the chair of the Transit Advisory Board. He's quoted, saying that the curve where the train derailed was supposed to be rated for 79mph. The current theory is still that there was a large object or truck of some sort on the track. The question then is why. As indicated there is no grade crossing near the accident zone. PremiumSupport fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Dec 18, 2017 |
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Dec 18, 2017 23:46
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I didn't see any smashed Truck in the photos might have been something else left on the tracks.
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Dec 18, 2017 23:56
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Cygni posted:Sounds like too much speed: If you look at google street view (does not appear in sat view), a makeshift dot yard kind of backs up against the tracks. The google street view is a bit old, but if accurate, it is possible someone parked some heavy equipment too close to the tracks. There has also been some comments that amtrak engineers have been complaining about the difficulty of getting the speed down to 30mph before the curve.
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Dec 19, 2017 00:11
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So what speed is the curve then, 30 mph or 79 mph?
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Dec 19, 2017 00:12
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iospace posted:So what speed is the curve then, 30 mph or 79 mph? Seattle Times says 30
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Dec 19, 2017 00:20
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nm posted:Seattle Times says 30 I was going to say bullshit but then I saw some of the pics of the curve...there's no way that fucker was rated for 79 MPH.
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Dec 19, 2017 01:03
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Elephanthead posted:I didn't see any smashed Truck in the photos might have been something else left on the tracks. Wouldn't that be congressional hearing level of negligence?
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Dec 19, 2017 02:11
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A popular tracker site had the train at 81 MPH right before the crash according to this guy: https://twitter.com/AirlineFlyer/status/942789704763789312/ The site's blown their Google API limits so it's breaking now, but they claim their data comes right from Amtrak.
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Dec 19, 2017 04:30
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In the first reports I thought the tail of the train had fish-tailed but it was actually the front that derailed. The track is curved right over that trestle. The way the cars concertinaed off it, it had to have been going at a clip, the front engine ended up pointing the opposite direction.
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Dec 19, 2017 04:48
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https://twitter.com/bryanpatterson/status/942813876403429376
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Dec 19, 2017 05:24
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Taking that at 80mph seems a little suicidal.
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Dec 19, 2017 12:53
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Glad you yanks now have your very own Morpeth Curve
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Dec 19, 2017 13:09
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We've had quite a few "train takes curve too fast" crashes. These came to mind. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malbone_Street_Wreck?wprov=sfla1 93 dead when a train took a curve at 40 mph instead of 6 mph https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_Back_Bay%2C_Massachusetts_train_collision?wprov=sfla1 dozens injured when a train took a cirve at 76 instead of 30 mph
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Dec 19, 2017 13:21
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This is amazingly incompetent.
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Dec 19, 2017 13:43
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RandomPauI posted:We've had quite a few "train takes curve too fast" crashes. These came to mind. Or, just four years ago: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_2013_Spuyten_Duyvil_derailment quote:the train was traveling at 82 miles per hour (132 km/h); the speed limit for the section of track involved is 30 miles per hour (48 km/h). Sounds familiar?
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Dec 19, 2017 15:36
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If that is indeed a 30mph curve there are obviously some communication issues between the parties involved in planning and implementing this new route. When the chair of the Pierce county Transportation Advisory Board is under the impression that the curve (located in Pierce county) was supposed to be rated for 79mph but the signage indicates 30mph... Makes me wonder what Amtrak was told. This very well could be a case of "The sign is wrong, ignore it" when the sign is actually correct. e: Important to note, Amtrak does not own this section of the new route. They are former BNSF freight rails that are now owned by a smaller freight provider. PremiumSupport fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Dec 19, 2017 |
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Dec 19, 2017 15:40
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NightGyr posted:Or, just four years ago: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_2013_Spuyten_Duyvil_derailment
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Dec 19, 2017 15:57
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I'm was going to ask what is going on to cause all these derailments in the US but looking at the list of UK rail accidents i'm not actually sure it's that different in the same timeframe
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Dec 19, 2017 16:33
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Read that the line is ptc equipped but the trains aren't, awesome.
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Dec 19, 2017 16:51
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I don't think I have seen this posted; but anyways, it's insanely detailed railwaymaps: http://www.openrailwaymap.org/
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Dec 19, 2017 17:25
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nm posted:Read that the line is ptc equipped but the trains aren't, awesome. the lead engine def supported PTC. PTC takes forever to get approved/fully working in the US.
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Dec 19, 2017 17:39
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MikeCrotch posted:I'm was going to ask what is going on to cause all these derailments in the US but looking at the list of UK rail accidents i'm not actually sure it's that different in the same timeframe Yeah we just had the conclusion of the RAIB investigation into last year's tram accident come out at the start of the month: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/report-182017-overturning-of-a-tram-at-sandilands-junction-croydon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_UsuasWBNY tl;dr tram took a 20km/h corner at 78km/h because the driver fell asleep
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Dec 19, 2017 17:43
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Cygni posted:the lead engine def supported PTC. PTC takes forever to get approved/fully working in the US. I was going to ask "isn't there some kind of automated system to keep the train from exceeding safe speeds like there is to keep it from overrunning signals", but I'm guessing that's what PTC is?
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Dec 19, 2017 18:10
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ToxicFrog posted:I was going to ask "isn't there some kind of automated system to keep the train from exceeding safe speeds like there is to keep it from overrunning signals", but I'm guessing that's what PTC is? Yup, It stands for Positive Train Control. The main issue as I understand it in the US is the volume of track that has to have equipment fitted for the system to work. It's a massive investment of time and money with very little payoff until the entire project is complete.
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Dec 19, 2017 18:27
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PremiumSupport posted:It's a massive investment of time and money with very little payoff until the entire project is complete. I don't see how so. It's not like it depends on everything being done to be useful. Track and trains supporting it can be used immediately where available and it doesn't hurt anything otherwise. The payoff scales pretty linearly with the level of completion. Those trains on that track become theoretically immune to many common kinds of human error. Also at least with regards to overspeed situations a GPS-based solution could operate entirely self contained and not require any trackside infrastructure. It wouldn't be able to provide the full functionality of a PTC system with real-time signal and switch info (at least reliably, such data could of course be relayed over cellular where available) but it could definitely prevent going in to a turn too fast.
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Dec 19, 2017 19:57
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Yeah but you have to factor in that nobody in the US gives a flying poo poo about passenger rail, even when they are flying off the tracks consistently. They could make rolling out PTC easier, cheaper, faster, and/or better, but they arent going to cause nobody cares.
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Dec 19, 2017 20:31
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Realistically the only parts of the US that are going to see any kind of passenger growth in the foreseeable future in regards to rail travel are Florida, California and the NEC (including the Keystone and Downeaster and the Boston, CT, NYC, Philly, NJ and DC commuter systems) due to the high population densities.
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Dec 19, 2017 21:41
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barricaded one posted:I don't think I have seen this posted; but anyways, it's insanely detailed railwaymaps: http://www.openrailwaymap.org/ Oh come on it's even got tram lines 
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Dec 20, 2017 00:59
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hackbunny posted:Oh come on it's even got tram lines It even has many of the roller coasters at Cedar Point listed as "narrow gauge rail".
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Dec 20, 2017 01:10
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Would they show Drachen Fire as a discontinued line or would it just not be on the map?
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Dec 20, 2017 05:14
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wolrah posted:It even has many of the roller coasters at Cedar Point listed as "narrow gauge rail". It's got the local RV Resort and Light Railway on it, with both the 2' and 7.5" tracks listed. http://www.openrailwaymap.org/?lang=&lat=30.502710732353492&lon=-87.7872982621193&zoom=18&style=standard
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Dec 20, 2017 06:50
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RandomPauI posted:Would they show Drachen Fire as a discontinued line or would it just not be on the map? They've got a line that was paved over this summer (it's being turned into a bike trail) that is within 1/4 mile of me as either a spur or disused (can't really tell, colors for the two are too close) http://www.openrailwaymap.org/?lang=&lat=42.49419584941344&lon=-71.41260266304016&zoom=16&style=standard
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Dec 20, 2017 07:02
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In retrospect I'm not sure if I was joking about it or not. For context, the rollercoaster ran for a few years during the 90s before being dismantled in 2002 or so.
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Dec 20, 2017 07:08
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Train derailment near Olympia: Officials pushed ‘aggressive’ timeline before safety technology was ready: Monday’s deadly derailment came just months before critical safety technology known as positive train control is scheduled to launch on the route. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...logy-was-ready/
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Dec 20, 2017 08:24
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nm posted:Train derailment near Olympia: Officials pushed ‘aggressive’ timeline before safety technology was ready: Yet they'll hit the engineer for being distracted by a cellphone.
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Dec 20, 2017 10:34
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More stuff on that high speed fuckup: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...logy-was-ready/ Incompetence and greed are a flawless recipe
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Dec 20, 2017 12:18
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I don't know. It's still in its implementation phase, so nothing about the operation of the train is really different for the engineer from the last fifty years, right? For example, if a car company decides to delay implementation of autonomous technology until the following model year, are they now liable for someone driving the current model year vehicle off the road because they weren't paying attention?
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Dec 20, 2017 17:08
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