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Race Realists posted:i unironically loving hate you. I would say that you accusing that poster of being "every single thing that is wrong with comics fandom" is 1000x more toxic than anything they said in that post, especially since all it took was saying "I like Mark Millar". Never mind the fact that Millar has written some decent stuff when he's not trying too hard to be shocking, who the gently caress do you think you are that you, some tool on the internet, get to speak for me, and literally millions of other people with wildly differing tastes, on such a non-issue as the quality of work that a guy who barely works in the industry anymore and what that means for all of the industry, its' fanbase, and all of loving nerdom. Especially when there are more important issues, like the gross undercurrent of misogyny and racism both within the industry and fandom, or the slow death of brick and mortar stores, or the rising prices of books so that people can't afford them anymore, or the brutally out of touch executives who don't know how to fix issues pertaining to quality andalienation of fanbases, or, you know, literally anything else other than the opinion of an rear end in a top hat on the internet who thinks Brodie Bruce from Mallrats is a role model instead of a cautionary tale. I have seen and met some arrogant assholes on the web and on this forum, but you take the cake, you stupid piece of poo poo. I'd tell you to take a victory lap upon receiving this honor, but you'd probably get lost and starve to death and I don't want that on my hands. El Gallinero Gros fucked around with this message at 04:33 on Dec 19, 2017 |
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Dec 19, 2017 04:27
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El Gallinero Gros posted:I have seen and met some arrogant assholes on the web and on this forum, but you take the cake, Um hello, he's sitting in my chair.
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Dec 19, 2017 04:30
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Rhyno posted:Um hello, he's sitting in my chair. You wouldn't even crack the top 10, dude. But I know it's a title that's important to you, so if it makes you feel better, I've been on the net since '98, so that's a decently high volume of assholes to compete with. And I like your avatar. El Gallinero Gros fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Dec 19, 2017 |
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Dec 19, 2017 04:33
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El Gallinero Gros posted:You wouldn't even crack the top 10, dude. Awwww, that's so nice.
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Dec 19, 2017 04:41
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It just dawned on me that your avatar is not fanart and it's likely the character Bloodshot plays in Valiant High, some kind of football coach I presume. Mind blown. I really should read that comic.
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Dec 19, 2017 04:45
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Covok posted:It just dawned on me that your avatar is not fanart and it's likely the character Bloodshot plays in Valiant High, some kind of football coach I presume. Goddamn right you should.
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Dec 19, 2017 04:46
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It’s ok. I think it would be a lot worse if you didn’t already read Valiant.
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Dec 19, 2017 05:32
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If it makes anyone feel better I hate everyone who posts in BSS and expect the same in return.
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Dec 19, 2017 08:36
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Jordan7hm posted:It’s ok. I think it would be a lot worse if you didn’t already read Valiant. Someone recently turned me on to DIVINITY and now I read Valiant. But only DIVINITY stuff.
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Dec 19, 2017 15:20
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Skwirl posted:If it makes anyone feel better I hate everyone who posts in BSS and expect the same in return. Harsh but fair
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Dec 19, 2017 16:32
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Skwirl posted:Monica Rambeau is amazing but she falls into the trap where her actual name is better than any code name, see also Luke Cage. This is a gimmick she should probably own, along with people stealing her codenames all the time.
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Dec 19, 2017 19:09
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Open Marriage Night posted:I unironically enjoyed the Ultimates, his run on the Fantastic Four, and 1985. I'm sorry I'm not a better comic fan. Millar's Fantastic Four is quite underrated. It's saddled with bad art for much of its run, particularly the Civil War tie-ins, but it's very creative and Millar seems to really appreciate the characters.
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Dec 19, 2017 19:13
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pospysyl posted:Millar's Fantastic Four is quite underrated. It's saddled with bad art for much of its run, particularly the Civil War tie-ins, but it's very creative and Millar seems to really appreciate the characters.
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Dec 19, 2017 19:59
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March solicits Gwenpool isn't on here so it's officially cancelled Hawkeye is getting cancelled it looks like Jane's finally dying She-hulk might be cancelled too?? Doesn't look like there's gonna be any marvel books im interested in reading after March other than USG site fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Dec 19, 2017 |
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Dec 19, 2017 20:06
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site posted:March solicits They made their choice. Dwindling old fans over new fans. Considering how those old fans are, best to let them live with that choice. Punishment enough in itself.
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Dec 19, 2017 20:10
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Edge & Christian posted:Are you sure you're thinking of Mark Millar's Fantastic Four run? It only ran for sixteen issues a few years after Civil War ended and the art for the entire run was Bryan Hitch except for a couple of issues towards the end with Neil Edwards (bad) and Stuart Immonen (good) fill-ins. You know what, for some reason I thought that Millar wrote those Civil War tie-ins, but those were JMS. It's been a while since I've read them. Still, I stand by what I said about the art: Hitch didn't always do his best work, especially when it came to Reed and Doom. Overall, though, I like the run a lot. It's especially interesting rereading it after Hickman cribbed a lot of Millar's ideas (and in my opinion, less effectively).
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Dec 19, 2017 20:45
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site posted:March solicits I got very excited by that New Mutants cover, but then disappointed to see it was a 6 issue series. (It even has Strong Guy on the cover!  )
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Dec 19, 2017 20:50
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pospysyl posted:Millar's Fantastic Four is quite underrated. It's saddled with bad art for much of its run, particularly the Civil War tie-ins, but it's very creative and Millar seems to really appreciate the characters. The civil war tie ins include reed saying that his uncle should have testified about communism since it was the law.
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Dec 19, 2017 21:02
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Well, for one thing, I think portraying Reed as an intellectual conservative is valid. Lots of prominent scientists tend to be conservatives, and Reed's political views hadn't really been interrogated prior to Civil War. To wit, in the F4 origin story, he stole the rocket to help beat the communists in the space race. For another thing, Millar didn't write the Civil War tie-ins (this was my mistake). He did portray Reed as conservative in Civil War proper, but again, I think that's not an invalid choice. Whether Reed would create a zombie cyborg clone of one of his friends is another matter.
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Dec 19, 2017 21:18
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pospysyl posted:You know what, for some reason I thought that Millar wrote those Civil War tie-ins, but those were JMS. It's been a while since I've read them. Still, I stand by what I said about the art: Hitch didn't always do his best work, especially when it came to Reed and Doom. Overall, though, I like the run a lot. It's especially interesting rereading it after Hickman cribbed a lot of Millar's ideas (and in my opinion, less effectively). Hickman had one of the Storm siblings die and come back, and I guess a future Franklin Richards?
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Dec 19, 2017 21:19
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Wait. Do they plan to end Hawkeye before she can even sort out the stuff with her parents? That's a bit lame.
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Dec 19, 2017 22:39
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Covok posted:They made their choice. Dwindling old fans over new fans. Pretty sure DC is demonstrating that old fans are actually what drives comic book sales. Rebirth was essentially a "nah, gently caress experimentation, let's launch the big guys twice monthly because that's what actually sells".
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Dec 19, 2017 22:41
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Jordan7hm posted:Pretty sure DC is demonstrating that old fans are actually what drives comic book sales. We will see. I'd argue rebirth was really just them understanding the tone people look for. It's not that they were going for older fans, it's them recognizing that people don't want dark and gritty right now which is what the new 52 was, almost a 90s level of grit and edginess in an era when people want much lighter material. Also, most younger fans like lighter material tonally.
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Dec 19, 2017 22:47
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Covok posted:We will see. I'd argue rebirth was really just them understanding the tone people look for. It's not that they were going for older fans, it's them recognizing that people don't want dark and gritty right now which is what the new 52 was, almost a 90s level of grit and edginess in an era when people want much lighter material. Also, most younger fans like lighter material tonally. We did see. They launched all their big sellers twice monthly and cut back to the core titles, and they came out of the gates flying. New 52 had lots of problems, but it was filled with light series and weird series.
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Dec 19, 2017 23:03
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Well, that's sad. I didn't see AN Wolverine either. I guess I'll be saving a lot of money in the future.
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Dec 19, 2017 23:08
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Covok posted:We will see. I'd argue rebirth was really just them understanding the tone people look for. It's not that they were going for older fans, it's them recognizing that people don't want dark and gritty right now which is what the new 52 was, almost a 90s level of grit and edginess in an era when people want much lighter material. Also, most younger fans like lighter material tonally. Rebirth is still primarily the exact same editors and writers and artists of similar tone, the thing they seemed to understand is that a lot of the things they changed/erased in New 52 were things people liked from 20+ years ago, so Lois and Clark are married again and Black Canary and Green Arrow are kissing and Batman is Tim Drake's foster daddy again and Wally West exists and um... probably other things I'm forgetting? It was a deliberate re-centering of a bunch of character relationships that were popular from previous decades in an attempt to appeal to lapsed (older) fans and as was already mentioned, it was a double or tripling down on abandoning new or unusual characters and trying to ensure that Batman is on at least twenty covers a month and Superman is on at least ten and then I guess Wonder Woman can be on some comics too. People sure do seem to love the poo poo out of Batman comics that are chockablock with torture and murder and people getting their faces ripped off and making tapestries out of living humans and horses sewed together and genocidal dank dimension alternate version of Batman flaying and torturing their fave heroes to death and etc. not to mention the consensus best superhero book of the year/decade/forever is all about a depressed guy committing suicide repeatedly after watching an old lady get decapitated by a fascist overlord and then I guess like blankly having bondage sex with his wife that might be mind controlled as he goes to commit suicide again. I think the schism here is that people on the internet (sometimes) complain about DARK and GRITTY and people generally hated Secret Empire and Doomsday Clock and those things are gritty best-sellers that no one liked, which is somehow different than dark and gritty best-sellers people actually liked, and if you ignore actual sales and just go based on what a subset of people on the internet say, they want more books like Wasp and Moon Girl and whatever! Except no one actually buys these books (except I guess the hypothetical lighter DC Rebirth material over on some book I must not be aware of, Super Sons maybe? The book where the two little boys are going to have to fight their murderous adult selves trying to murder their parents or whatever?) and they do buy the books no one likes, even if it's in lower physical quantities than they did five years ago. I never really understand what markets or demographics or 'groups' people talk about outside of massive projection of their friend (or enemy) group. Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Dec 19, 2017 |
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Dec 19, 2017 23:09
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Edge & Christian posted:I'm curious about what ideas you think Hickman cribbed from Millar. I haven't re-read Millar's run since it came out but all I really remember about it is Johnny Storm banging around with some lady from the future which led to the climactic death of (future version we only just met) Susan Richards, and like Doctor Doom had a Darth Insanius version of himself from the future go back in time to be his mentor? And the Thing got scammed by a lady pretending to be attracted to him. First of all, Millar created the Nu-World, which of course features prominently in Hickman's F4 run. I personally think the way Hickman used Nu-World was quite meanspirited. The whole point of Millar's story is that Reed and his family are so brilliant that they're able to find a third way out of a complicated moral conundrum where seemingly no compromise could be found. Hickman steals that accomplishment away from them just to set up Banner Jr. as a villain. It’s lame, too, since Hickman’s run has a (earned) reputation for these kinds of stories, but the reason he has that reputation is because of the exact kind of continuity mucking that his treatment of Nu-World exemplifies. Second, the climax of the Masters of Doom storyline is basically a dry run for Hickman's Avengers. Doctor Doom's evil mentor, the Marquis of Death, travels from universe to universe blowing each one up for basically no reason. He's quite brutal as he does this, torturing alternate versions of our favorite Marvel heroes. When the Marquis arrives on Earth, Doom attempts to defeat him. Doom seemingly resolves teh problem and envisions a perfect world, where he lives happily with Susan. It turns out that this is not the "correct" world and Reed needs to show up to solve the problem properly. In so doing, he is faced with several moral dilemmas. Can he kill innocent people to save billions of lives? Turns out he can't, but other alternate Fantastic Fours and Avengers can, so they try to kill our Fantastic Four. Our Fantastic Four triumph with the help of an unusually powerful former supervillain. The story ends with Doctor Doom being smart and determined enough to basically become a god. I hope you can see the similarities it has with Hickman’s Avengers and Secret Wars, at least on a plot level. I think they also have a lot in common thematically. The same dilemmas are present in both stories, and the same solutions are found in each. There are conflicts about how emotion can be a weakness or a strength. The overall conflict in each is the same. They’re about the temptation to resolve a crisis with methods that are utilitarianly sound but are only expedient and the need to resist that impulse. The main thing is that it takes Millar sixteen issues to tell this story when it takes Hickman about a hundred. The Marquis of Death is ridiculous, of course, but at least Millar understands what kind of voice a figure like this should have. Millar manages to portray the stakes of the Marquis’ attack in a few pages while Hickman had something like four issues of New Avengers in a row just about different universes getting blown up. The dramatic potential of alternate universes is used more fully here in the kinds of temptations and tortures the Marquis uses. All the while Millar manages to have unique takes on the F4 characters (well, I guess his take on Johnny isn’t that unique), whereas most of Hickman’s characters have very similar voices. That’s not to say that Hickman’s work is bad, but I think he gets a lot of credit for stuff that Millar did better.
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Dec 19, 2017 23:10
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twistedmentat posted:Well, that's sad. I didn't see AN Wolverine either. I guess I'll be saving a lot of money in the future. All New Wolverine is there
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Dec 19, 2017 23:12
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Covok posted:We will see. I'd argue rebirth was really just them understanding the tone people look for. It's not that they were going for older fans, it's them recognizing that people don't want dark and gritty right now which is what the new 52 was, almost a 90s level of grit and edginess in an era when people want much lighter material. Also, most younger fans like lighter material tonally. I mean I don't think Marvel is so petty that they'd actually like cancel Hawkeye and what not because "Oh, well if we get rid of them, old readers will be interested." I'd assume there was like... financial reasons, or writer reasons, I mean Jane dying was something we'd known about since that entire plot started, so I think anyone saying Jason was doing it just to bring back the old Thor or because mandate dictated as such probably just has bitter feelings. Looking over the books, Hawkeye was doing 12,000 which is definitely in the range of what I'd think is a cancellation, Gwenpool is at 14,000 and I think that's above the line, but only barely. Now, She-Hulk's still sitting pretty at 36,000 so that'd definitely be an outlier if it was being canceled. Unless it's doing well in book fairs or online I'd see Ms. Marvel taking the plunge next, it's down to 15,000 papers. Even if it's not the case I'm still blaming Civil War II and Champions. Pretty lovely information overall though. Edge & Christian posted:I mean I'm not sure how true any of that is? People sure do seem to love the poo poo out of Batman comics that are chockablock with torture and murder and people getting their faces ripped off and making tapestries out of living humans and horses sewed together and genocidal dank dimension alternate version of Batman flaying and torturing their fave heroes to death and etc. not to mention the consensus best superhero book of the year/decade/forever is all about a depressed guy committing suicide repeatedly after watching an old lady get decapitated by a fascist overlord and then I guess like blankly having bondage sex with his wife that might be mind controlled as he goes to commit suicide again. This is sadly the issue of Comics as a business rather than Comics as an expression of artistic ideas. I know a friend of mine's LCS is full of people who think Identity Crisis is a masterpiece. I don't know HOW they think that, but sure as poo poo, they all think it's one of the greatest comics ever written. Point is a lot of places not BSS have varying opinons on comics not shared on BSS. And sadly if the market data is accurate then BSS is in the minority of general comic book feelings.
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Dec 19, 2017 23:17
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bobkatt013 posted:All New Wolverine is there I refreshed and it wasnt loading half the images on the page. That's good, i'll have at least 3 comics that aren't either Avengers or X-men to buy. This is going to be hypocritical, because while I'm so buying the weekly Avengers title, I also hate when comics come out more than once a month. That's why I had to drop all my DC Rebirth titles because it was just costing too much money.
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Dec 19, 2017 23:18
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Onmi posted:This is sadly the issue of Comics as a business rather than Comics as an expression of artistic ideas. I know a friend of mine's LCS is full of people who think Identity Crisis is a masterpiece. I don't know HOW they think that, but sure as poo poo, they all think it's one of the greatest comics ever written. Point is a lot of places not BSS have varying opinons on comics not shared on BSS. And sadly if the market data is accurate then BSS is in the minority of general comic book feelings. If Chris Claremont's alternate-timeline fetish-heavy continuation of his old X-Men series had sold like gangbusters, Marvel would still be publishing it to this day. Canceling it wasn't a "gently caress you" to old fans who remember the 1970s fondly. If Unstoppable Wasp or [insert other young female fronted book] sold like gangbusters, there would be Unbelievable Wasp, Uncanny Wasp, Spectacular Wasp, and Waspcorps books on the market right not. It didn't sold well and canceling it isn't a gently caress you to young fans. There are a million factors (many of which Marvel helped create, many which are out of any single entity's control in 2017) that created The Market and Market Factors and Etc. that contribute to all of this, but the market as it exists has spoken and said Ales Kot's Iron Patriot wasn't very good and no one wants to buy it and it's mostly forgotten and that probably was a major factor in Marvel/Bendis not plucking
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Dec 19, 2017 23:34
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I'm a fan of Ms. Marvel but if it is indeed losing numbers I can understand why. It's been kind of a bummer to read for a while now. Kamala hasn't been the same since Civil War II. In Ms. Marvel she's been going through an extended period of doubting herself and the impact she's having, while her series was initially so inspiring because her first big arc involved accepting herself and jumping feet first into the exciting world of superheroes, something that Civil War II's circumstances turned to poo poo. Additionally, I can see why people who encounter her in other comics wouldn't be interested in checking out her solo series. Her portrayals in team ups consistently frame her as a finger-wagger first and foremost, with little of the youthfulness or fun of the character coming through. Ms. Marvel barely had time to get herself really situated before she got thrown into these huge events and I think that did a lot of harm to her book.
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Dec 20, 2017 00:17
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yea she's been in a bunch of bad events and it doesn't seem like other writers understand her well. still mad about champions
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Dec 20, 2017 00:20
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cant cook creole bream posted:Wait. Do they plan to end Hawkeye before she can even sort out the stuff with her parents? Reading the description of the issue in question, it looks like Hawkeye will be sorting out all, well some, of her issues. My biggest surprise was seeing that JJ isn't ending when Bendis leaves. howe_sam fucked around with this message at 01:32 on Dec 20, 2017 |
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Dec 20, 2017 01:01
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https://twitter.com/drhastings/status/943192459307347968
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Dec 20, 2017 02:25
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Ugh, I was hoping that panel posted earlier that hinted the end of Gwenpool was part of some story where she had to prevent her own cancellation. Way more mad about Hawkeye ending, though. That series ticks drat near all my boxes. Maybe someone cool will pick Kate and Gwen up and put them on a good team book. Like Champions... If someone else were to take over Champions. I don't blame anyone or anything. It's just the way she goes and getting 25 issues of a fun-as-hell story is not too shabby for a character that started as a variant cover joke or whatever the hell the genesis of Gwenpool was.
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Dec 20, 2017 02:47
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Well, my pull list will be getting shorter soon. If this pattern keeps up, I might only be buying Spider-Man, Thor, and DC.
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Dec 20, 2017 02:59
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Yeah, that's a real bummer, Gwenpool was a big dumb meme of sunshine in mainstream comics. (And I'd agree that Nu-World got a raw deal, but Fantastic Four writers are often real bad about excising any concepts that don't somehow relate to a thing Kirby drew, Hickman included.)
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Dec 20, 2017 03:06
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Sad thing is she doesn't really fit anywhere else as a team member, Gwenpool only works in a solo book. Maybe she'll get backup stories or specials?
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Dec 20, 2017 04:03
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I think gwen could fit on a team book if you had a good writer who got her personality and could figure out ways to use her powers so she's not either sidelined for being too op or is just wildly out of everyone else's league, but i also have a deep fear that she would get given to some 50yo guy and we have the same problem kamala has where everyone but Willow writes her like trash
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Dec 20, 2017 04:13
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